"Too posh to push" ?

[jasper]

I know this is a clumsy phrase but at least we all know what it means.
Does anyone actually know of a woman ( themselves even) for whom this is/was the case?

[Lindy]

I have mentioned this on another thread but I did ASK if I could have a C section - mainly because I was terrified of childbirth - I was told that 'I was a big, healthy girl (43!) with nothing to worry about' - not being very assertive I just kept quiet & hoped for the best -in the end I had to have an emergency C section (under GA - completely out of it, DH not allowed in the theatre - although he had to carry up some equipment to theatre due to staff shortages!) due to a problem with my DS which couldn't have been detected before birth, had he had a vaginal delivery we would probably both be dead.

I wish I had stuck with my original instincts & had a CS with a localised aneasthetic (sp?) - when I came round from the GA, there was no baby, no husband - no one wanted to tell me what sex the baby was as they wanted my husband to break the news - but he wasn't there! Naturally I thought the worse.

[MandyD]

I suppose I left it quite late to have a child (36), mostly because I was terrified of the idea of natural childbirth. I always imagined if I did have a baby it would be by C section. Until...I met a couple of women who had! After that, the thought of massive wounds, scarring, immobility etc scared me out of that idea. Also, in the intervening years I had a broken leg that had to be operated on and I discovered I do not heal easily. In the end my son's birth was induced, labour took under 5 hours and I only needed gas & air (well, too scared to have an epidural anyway)!

[Lindy]

I think I was very lucky with my c-section as I had no problems at all, apart from the first couple of days in hospital when I was a little drowsy (& that might have been the GA) - I have a very modest scar & experienced no discomfort at all - I stayed in hospital 5 days, mostly due to DS losing weight so we weren't 'allowed' out, home on day 6 & cooking lunch for guests on day 7 (!) - I was also driving quite quickly because when I checked with the insurers I was told there is not a 'six week rule' for insurance purposes - more for medical reasons & as I felt so well I assumed it would be OK - also we live in a very isolated area & it is tricky not being able to drive.

[Crunchie]

I don't think many people actually hoose to have a c-section because they are too posh. Usually there ia another reason. I have had two and wished I could have manged a virginal birth sencond time around (first was due to pre-eclampsia at 27 weeks so no choice), but she wasn't going to try! In the end I was up after 4 hrs, out of hospital in 4 days (I wanted to go home earlier but wasn't allowed) and driving in less than 2 weeks. There are some benefits in a way, but i wouldn't choose to have a blooming great scar!

[MalmoMum]

I thought the posh bit refered to keeping your bits Honeymoon Fresh. Are you contemplating having an elective, Jasper? A sort of getting tired of this pregnancy lark, do I have to push aswell? contemplation?

[callie]

Zoe Ball! just been talking about her on another thread.
She had an elective c section in the portland because in her own words she didn't want the mess or pain of childbirth.
I wouldn't call her "posh" but certaintly loaded.
So therefore Zoe Ball is "too loaded to push".

Lindy , Iam surprised your doctor didn't listen to you when you requested a c section. Being 43 you would certaintly have been justified in requesting this as birth over 40 is a lot more risky. Especially if it is your first.

[jasper]

I wish Malmomum!!
No, not seriously, my bits are a long way off being daisy fresh.
The reason I asked the question ( apart from being totally prreoccupied with childbirth in all its forms) is it is a phrase which is bandied about a lot, usually in relation to "celebrities" and I wondered if it was a bit of a myth.In other words, yet another way for the media to be nasty about famous women.
I have never known of anyone who WANTED to have a caesarian for reasons of convenience, vanity, poshness or whatever and just wondered if the whole concept was a myth.
I can't imagine anyone actively preferring a c-section over a vaginal delivery, and would have been uncritically interested to hear from anyone who did.
Anyone I know who had a section either had it as an emergency ( usually after a whole lot of pushing!) or on medical advice.
I even wondered if your average NHS obstetrician would agree to a c-section for no apparent medical reason.

[jasper]

Callie looks like you posted at the same time as me, and looks like Zoe Ball does indeed fit the bill if she has said so herself in interviews.
(Seems all the more ridiculous that she hosted that programme on childbirth, IMHO but then I am not a fan of hers)

[Coxy]

I thought I read somewhere that Zoe Ball elected for a caesarean because of problems when her mother gave birth? Not sure how true but whether she was right I don't know. I had an emergency c-section with my first and was absolutely terrified with number 2. I was taken in about a week before with high blood pressure and asked the doctor if he would perform another c-section. The being terrified was one reason but as we had recently moved away from any family it would have been nice to schedule the delivery when number 1 was safely at nursery. The doctor said no which narked me but in the end a new friend offered to have number 1 son when the time came. Two days later, labour started, waters broke, number 1 son went to friend and we went to hospital. I had gas and air and an epidural but after about 5 hours number 2 son arrived. The feeling of having pushed him out has never left me and I am so pleased I have 'done it both ways'. (Although I wouldn't want the emergency c-section option again).

To get back to the thread proper though I do think some celebrities think that money can buy everything but childbirth I don't believe is 'for sale'. But as we all know, it's up to us all as individuals and it would be very boring if we were all the same!

[Pupuce]

Zoe did say that because of her mum's experience.... well sorry but my mum had (in her words) very easy deliveries... well mine were not ! And Zoe also said that she was scared, etc !
I think Davina Mc Call had a homebirth ??? Can anyone confirm ? Ricky (sp?) Lake had a home and water birth !
I thought one of the All Saints girls had had an elective c-section... and what about Mel C (or B?)... and Posh Spice ? sorry my ignorance of their name shows my age

[Pupuce]

Sorry also meant to say that Zoe hosting the birth show was a joke to me as well !

[MalmoMum]

Thanks for the clarification Jasper. I was pretty sure you had children already but couldn't think of a polite way of saying it was a bit late to consider your freshness now.

One girl in my NCT group had a wholly elective c-section which I think falls into your sphere of interest, albeit secondhand. She had quite a cool,high powered job but had little body confidence and seemed to want to be in control all the time. Or have any fuss and mess. I think she cited age which was about 35 at the time, same as me. Funnily enough (to me), her chap was a chiropractic.

She had her baby a few weeks few weeks before me and I was too terrified of her and her greater experience to probe into the whys and wherefores. So this prob of little help.

I think some of the celeb group are prob just so used to having people around to fix things, eg Zoe B having the nanny get up in the night, Madonna never changing nappies, and the let's all get our diaries out and co-ordinate on a c-section date approach just fits in with the lifestyle. Seems more of a loss than a gain to me.

[MalmoMum]

Pupuce, your All Saint question had me (as a sad git) reaching for Marie Claire for a quote from Nic Appleton which I had reread to catch the gist. She says I gave birth naturally and it was the most incredible experience. I was stuck in a wow the whole time...I said to Liam, don't you wish you could have done that? I think that's one of the few celeb references I have seen though I thought it curious that she didn't go on about which pain relief options she went for, like everybody else I know has done. Nor tell you how long the birth was which seems strange to me.

Whoops, I am going off the main subject. Posh and Scary were c-sections.

[jessi]

Jasper, I am very vaguely considering asking for an elective cesaerian after feeling so traumatised by the birth of my first. Don't think that makes me too posh to push! I think that there are some women out there who had a truly horrible time during labour and are therefore scared to give normal delivery a go for a second time. I can't say, hand on heart whether I will ask for a c-section, but it helps me to be slightly deluded when thinking about baby no 2 ( which isn't as yet conceived I must add). I have no idea whether I'd even be allowed one anyway, I guess thats a question I'll ask nearer the time if I feel I need to in the end. I wonder if any other women out there feel the same as me : that the mental wounds of a traumatic delivery have to heal before you can contemplate having another baby?

[Pupuce]

Malmomum... what about the other All Saints girl - the first one who had a baby ??? Or am I getting all my stars mixed up - possibly.

[callie]

Hi, Jessi! I felt the same as you to some extent. Which is partly why I waited 7 yrs before having another baby. My first delivery although only 12 hrs from srart to finish was traumatic. I remember the pain being constant and the nausea i felt extreme. I was throwing up the whole time. Then i had an epidural that only worked down one side. and after the delivery I needed quite a lot of stiches.
I never thought of asking for a c section second time because to be honest iam more scared of that and i wanted to go home 6hrs after delivery if i could.
i decided to take my chances that second births are easier. And you know what, it was.
I t lasted 6hrs and i had no pain relief only a bit of gas and air. WE arrived at the hospital when i was 8cm dilated. i fully expected them to tell me i was only 2cm as i was totally coping with the pain and thought it was early days. But no, Baby arrived 1hr later with no stiches needed and i was home 6hrs later.

I know not all second births are straightforward but please don't expect the same traumatic experience you had with your first. Just tell yourself you'll ask for an epidural from the outset. Thats what i did but in the end i didn't neen it. Good luck!

[Paula1]

It was the other All Saint girl Mel that had a c-section, because of some serious problem with her spine that she had to have an operation on when she was young to put in a metal rod (or something anyway - legitimate!) A friend of mine demanded (and got) a c-section on the NHS.

[MotherofOne]

Jessi - I feel a bit like you - had a horrible first delivery - at 42 weeks, induction, got to 2nd stage, failed ventouse & emergency caesarian with 10lb 3oz baby! My MW/consultant have already suggested another section may be possible/suggested, and although it's not for 'too posh to push' reasons, I'm vaguely tempted to accept. I suppose technically this would be for 'medical reasons' (i.e. if another big baby/ too small pelvis etc) but for me the considerations ar also about "better the devil you know"- i.e. at least I know what to expect froma section this time, and also I have a sneaking feeling (that I hate to admit to...) of "well, I've already got a scar... why ruin another part of my body!"
But all that said, I haven't made a final decision yet, so if anyone feels strongly enough to want to try to convince me one way or another....

[jessi]

Callie & Motherofone, how heartwarming to read your messages. I was abit scared to look at this thread today in case I had incurred other peoples anger at my reasons! However, Callie, I must agree that planting the thought of 'Oh I'll just have an epicural as soon as I get there' does also help me during my moments of panic! I guess thats a better delusion than the c-section one if you know what I mean. I love your birth story Callie of No 2, that is so encouraging! Motherofone, someone I know has had 1 c-section and 2 normal deliveries, and said that the normal deliveries were far better,albeit painfull, but not as limiting as a full blown op. Good luck whatever you decide to do, (when are you due by the way?) I have a feeling its not something you can decide until your very near the time.

[MotherofOne]

Thanks Jessi - no I probably won't make the decision until something like 36 weeks when they'll do pelvic scans & try to estimate if it's another big one! Having said that, as discussed elsewhere on another thread, the accuracy of scans for size estimates can be very variable, so there's still the gamble that it would be bigger than expected, I'd have problems again, and end up with another emergency section, and that's what I'd want to try to avoid at all costs..
I'm 19 weeks - due mid July BTW.

[Lindy]

Jasper - I think there are (a small number of )women who would prefer a c-section to a vaginal delivery ( and yes, I was one of them) but it is such a sensitive issue when you are surrounded by women who really enjoy the whole pregnancy/childbirth issue that you are almost embarrassed (as I was & am) to admit that you don't really like it, am terrified of pain, mess, stitches, sex life problems etc etc.

I'm almost ashamed to post this message even on supportive Mumsnet for fear of looking like a 'fraud' or not a 'real' mum.

[robinw]

message withdrawn

[jasper]

Lindy, please don't be embarrassed or ashamed. I really don't think anyone here would judge you. As I said I was just curious about why someone would choose a C-section ( and I don't mean in a "For goodness sake , how ridiculous, why on earth would they choose that?" way) and as I had never met or even heard of anyone who chose to have one I had wondered if it was a bit of an urban media myth.
Certainly the "too posh to push" label trivialises the issue . It seems from reading some of the responses here that a very intense fear of childbirth might take some women down that route, although personally I would not find a C-section any less scary.
The other reason is the alleged celebrity type one, and I suppose we have no way of knowing if that is true, particularly as they often get misquoted in interviews.
Pupuce I too had heard Davina McColl had a homebirth.

[SueDonim]

Jasper, according to research in Scotland, 2% of elective CS's are due to maternal request. It set me to thinking how terrifying it must have been in days gone by to have a baby, with none of the modern aids we take for granted and a very high chance of dying in the process.

Robinw, there are lots of reasons why elective CS's require careful thought. Of course, some CS are life or healthsavers, undoubtedly, but the optimal CS rate seems to be between 7% and 15%. Rates above that show no benefit to mother or child. CS also cost the NHS a great deal more money.

These are the risks cited on an NHS website.

"A Caesarean section is a major abdominal operation and all operations and anaesthetics have risks. Being pregnant and having an operation can increase the risk of:


blood clots in the legs (also know as Deep Vein Thrombosis or DVT), which may pass to the lungs (pulmonary embolism) ? 4 times more likely than with a vaginal birth.

serious blood loss during and after the operation ? 2 times more likely.

damage to the bladder and bowel ? 6 times more likely.

When compared to vaginal delivery, it is difficult to predict when women who have had a Caesarean section will recover from the birth and be able to resume all their usual activities. Some women can take a long time to feel better, some have on-going problems with pain from the operation. Occasionally, women can have problems in future pregnancies, or at future operations, with scarring inside the abdomen. In addition, doctors know that more babies, of the same age, born by elective Caesarean section can experience breathing difficulties in comparison to those delivered vaginally. Although very rare, death of the mother is four times more likely in Caesarean sections than in vaginal deliveries."