That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

The tribunal said that she had a tendency to misremember the detail of events and in many respects the detail of her evidence was not “fully consistent” with the contemporaneous documents.

Well, that’s a polite way of putting it!

Also, we’re told staff were encouraged to be respectful to this person. Was this person encouraged to be respectful to the women in the changing room, who were upset by seeing someone with facial hair revealing a penis while the women were undressing? I’ve seen plenty of women changing without revealing their genital area. Why didn’t the transwoman do that?

I hope the NHS appeals. Judgements like this undermine women’s rights to safety and privacy.

There has already been a thread on this on FWR which was deleted by MNHQ fyi.

I agree with you

I agree OP. There is clearly more to this story.

Naked from the waste down? In an nhs changing room?That’s a bit strange. No wonder there was a question about underwear

Penises have no place in woman’s spaces regardless of how they identify.

There is absolutely more than reported.

If what was claimed to be said by the other (never identified) woman is true than I abhor that. I agree with their feelings but bullying is never ok. Same with the notes (we have to assume they were sent as the hospital accepted them)

However with the comment about the evidence being inconsistent it's hard to know what was and wasn't said or reported.

The important issue here is why they aren't listening to woman who say they don't feel comfortable and providing an individual or private space for the TW.

I'm guessing it was male bosses who made the decision to "tell" the female staff this was happening.

Maybe it's time woman started taking more of a stand and just refusing to turn up to work in circumstances such as this. Getting signed off with stress. I think the only way they'll see the woman feel the same as the TW in this is to take equally bold action.

Article states there was a shower.

What’s a ‘transphobic hole’?

How can you say that, women are being forced to change in front of a person with a penis, why couldn't this person, keep their penis hidden, more importantly why do you think it's OK to put women in this position...?

It would be interesting to know what the timeline of events were. Did the manager speak to the TW about being naked from the waist down before or after the TW allegedly overheard the conversation or allegedly received the note?
Why have their allegations that have no proof to back them up been taken into account?
The most important question is, why did the NHS Trust think it was OK to tell its female staff that a male who was starting transitioning would be using what are designated as single sex facilities? They clearly haven’t carried out an impact assessment, but just done the usual steamrollering over the the rights of their female staff to be able to undress in privacy.

The frustrating thing about this is, why were the concerns of the female staff not taken into account? I would be complaining left right and centre if I was seeing a penis in a ladies changing room no matter how that person identifies!!

You don’t have to be on mumsnet if it makes you that upset you know. It’s not government mandated.

Ooops sorry. That was to @Didimum

“This was a communal changing room with a shower cubicle,” said the judge, adding: “It did not seem . . . likely that there would have been a concern about a cisgender woman in a state of undress while changing in such a changing room.”

this makes no sense (unsurprisingly). A woman wouldn't have a penis which is why there would be no concern.

There needs to be respect on both sides.

Bullying and intimidation at work is the worst, the employee in question should never have been given the opportunity to do that to the women. How dare they.

Nasty misogynistic post. There is a reason women find naked males in female spaces threatening. It is disgraceful that anyone would try to shame them for recognising potential danger.

Male offending patterns do not change no matter how the male person identifies. This individual could end up in changing rooms in other places with younger more vulnerable females and accusing anyone who finds that uncomfortable of some form of bigotry only erodes their trust in the instincts which might keep them safe by urging them to leave. If you read detailed accounts of women who are attacked by predatory males you will often read that they saw the warning signs but they minimised or dismissed them because they did not want to seem rude.

Women should be encouraging each other to be as rude as their safety depends on them being. Decent people do not wonder round gratuitously exposing their genitals and we can all tell the difference between necessary nudity and gratuitous nudity. STOP JUDGING WOMEN WHO RECOGNISE DANGER.

Absolutely! @FOJN

Men need to keep their penises under control and in the male changing rooms not the female ones. It's not a phobia not to want an eyefull of someone cock and balls at work.

Women don’t have penises.

It’s OK for us to not want to have them in our single sex places - any single sex place, but especially single sex places that involve getting changed.

I know someone who is ordering female clothing and the Puts photos on their social media , because it is their kink, and they are getting off on it, however they wore makeup and a blouse In public and the reaction of senior school children was very vocal, enough that this person had to change their outfit and wash their face.
They were ranting about it, again on social media, it is like there are two opposing realities. People gee Transwoman up when it is written support and then they are on this woke high. Reality soon shatters this .

The issue here is that the women where uncomfortable and it seems there was no need to be getting fully naked. How many vaginas where on show in the same changing room? I would bet good money on 0.
I really feel for the woman because I have experience similar, while doing my masters degree I would go swimming weekly in the university pool (also open to the public) in the evening there was 3 one hour lane swimming hour slots, women only, men only and mixed as well as 3 sets of changing rooms women, men and mixed. This was a very 'woke' university. Every single week I went to the women only session there was a transwoman getting full frontal naked in the womens changing room, I must have seen that penis 25 times over the year, not once did I see a vagina. The changing rooms where open plan with open showers as well as 2 cubicles with showers. Every single week this 'woman' would strip fully naked, force their penis into a very tight black costume and then when the hour was up strip fully naked again and shower nude in the open showers. We where repeatedly told there was nothing the university pool could do because they where inclusive.
I do believe there are many genuine trans people, who do not go out their way to make woman uncomfortable and deserve to be included. I believe those people would use the mixed changing room, the cubicle shower or at very least covered themselves with a towel like the woman do. However with this obsession with inclusivity women are being left open for advantages to be taken.

This is just cruel and unnecessary behaviour. Condoning this sort of bullying is really horrible. It’s not the same at all as women having concerns about biological males in single sex. Transwomen have the right to dress in any way they want but it’s not right that someone with a penis should be able to use a communal single sex space. Another solution should have been found.

YANBU the transwomen did not deserve to be bullied however they should have been fired for indecent exposure.