Mumsnet Discussions - 'H' Has just walked out.......

Create a set of stock answers, TMW, that can be applied to most general questions. If they go beyond that, smile and shake your head.

If someone asks you how you are with that commiseratory side-tilt to the head, ask them which answer they would like, the short polite fib or the long detailed truth (I found this worked brilliantly - only the people who were genuinely interested in my wellbeing asked for the long complicated version grin

)

Your Dad is right - it is an impossible situation for him to get involved in and he shouldn't even attempt it. Perhaps he wouldn't love your H so much if he knew exactly how badly you have been treated? Have you told them the naked truth? You should, so that they can support you properly in full knowledge of what you have had to deal with.

I know that sometimes you just want to shut the door on the world - occasionally, it is a good thing to do and I would take advantage of the time you have to yourself when your DSS2 takes the DC to literally close the door and ignore everyone and everything.
Whilst protracted wallowing is a bad thing, short bursts of wallowing and allowing full expression of your grief can be highly beneficial - after a while you get fed up with yourself anyway (and run out of tissues) and then you feel marginally better and ready to keep going again.

((((((hugs))))))

{{{{{{{Mits}}}}}}}
run here!!

I spoke to someone in depth today SB, she seemed unsurprised by my concerns and I think I would like to deal with a woman if possible.

I don't know, I don't have 'man' issues but feel a bit wary.

Big hugs for you SB, and thank-you for thinking of me. I hope things go as smoothly as possible and maybe by the time we meet we will both be in better places......(((((())))) xx

My mum and dad came over to treat me and dc's and give me some TLC, which was unexpected as they are not prone to spontaneous parental outbursts!! Lol..

My Dad loves H to pieces and is deeply troubled by the situation. He doesn't feel able to 'intervene' between husband and wife, which is a far cry from my standing with the outlaws......

DSS2 has offered to have DC's for a weekend so that would be a break, the stretched emotions are exhausting.

People are being lovely but it is harrowing as people start to asks questions sad

, I feel like running away with DC's sometimes.

Mits, I'm so sorry this is all so hard. You really are wonderful. I am sure that, more than anything, DS needs you. All the support and the help in the world cannot replace a loving and stable parent. And I speak as someone who has worked with some severely emotionally disturbed children. I wonder if you can ask for a different person to see DS - the unprofessional thing is not helpful for any of you.

I'm leaving soon so don't know when I'll be back but I am thinking of you.

Mits, I am really sorry about this morning. The connection went and it took ages to get it back. Sorry.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}

can you get someone in to be with you when he comes? It will derail him from being vile to you, and will give you a bit of moral support. A friend or relative, maybe? And, I would suggest that if possible you gather the things he wants to pick up together and put them in one room, or in the hallway so that he need only spend the minimum time with you. Put them in an open box so he can see that everything he wants is there (and still whole! wink

)

Night lovey - I promise it will get better, just keep believing it and remember to smile at yourself in the morning!

Oh, TW I know, and I have to recognise the times of day when I lose sight of the positives.

Thank-you, I am going to try and get some sleep now. He is coming at the weeken to pick up some stuff, and it looked like it was going to be done amicably, but now it looks like it is very definately not, and I am very very bad at confrontation.

perhaps the word is starting to grate? Doggedly keeping going is a strength (sorry)in itself - there are people who lie down and give in to it.

Please be proud of what you are achieving - while you feel everything is so shit for you, every little positive has merit, so denying it as a positive is counterproductive.

When I was in the throes of my breakup I managed to read the entire Agatha Christie collection (not for ideas! grin

) which helped me to sleep.

If you can't sleep because you have thoughts whirling all the time in your brain then I suggest you write them down - and as you are writing, visualise the words coming out of your brain onto the paper (thus emptying your brain). Once they have all gone from brain to paper, burn the paper. Might sound nuts but it does help.

Oh god, I am so fed up of being strong.

I am tired, but can't sleep,

People keep saying how amazingly 'strong' I am being and keeping things together and I just feel like I am doggedly keeping going.

go and hug something then - really - even if it's a pillow. Or the duvet. Or wake a child up. It IS shit, it really is - but you can and will get through it and you will be the winner in the end because you will know that you can do anything.

It's like that Eleanor Roosevelt saying - women are like teabags - we don't know our true strength until we get into hot water.

The longer you are in it, the stronger you become.

Oh Mits{{{{{{{}}}}}}}
take care of you
very big hugs
xxxxxxx

I feel small and lonely and hurting and crap, this is shit.

Will have to do the smiling thing in the morning, sort of struggling at the moment.

for you TMW - small steps are often accompanied by small backward slides, honestly - it can feel rather like your life is a snakes and ladders board (no prizes for guessing who the biggest snake is!)

Can you change the house phone number as well and go ex-directory? And have you a new mobile now, that he doesn't have the number for? You probably need to keep the old mobile for contact at a later date, when he isn't behaving like a manipulative wanker.

At least it shows you (and hopefully his mum etc. too) that his promises are empty ones, that he can't change this quick and that there is no going back - and although that is hard in itself, it is better to get the pain out the way as quickly as possible rather than having little bits all the time. Rather like waxing - you have to rip the hairs out in one movement - hurts like a bastard when you do it but the relief comes quicker than if you try and peel it off slowly (I have done this, OMG, don't ever do it!)

Remember - tomorrow is another day - another day closer to feeling better about everything (despite the ups and downs that you will experience before you get there).

Another tip - when you are feeling at your lowest ebb, and absolutely shite, SMILE

at yourself in the mirror. It's bizarre but it does actually make you feel better - seeing yourself looking haggard and miserable just makes you feel worse; and smiling broadly hits some endorphin release points in the cheeks, which makes you feel a bit happier. EVERY day, smile at yourself the first time you look in the mirror.

(((((((hugs)))))))) to you all.

No....not in bed TW, working....

OK ish, have had to switch all phones off... sad

This is so so crap..... every time I think I am making a small step forward, I get knocked back. AA relatives support are not open at this time, I feel sick and am shaking.

toot, I have had to switch all phones off because he is drinking and emotional, and FB is down. Am going to work for another hour and then go to bed. Thanks for your support, take care of you..

(((((())))) to all who are supporting me.

Hey TMW - I firmly hope you are in bed by now, but just wanted to check you are ok..

Ah well, that'll be interesting but, as you say, not your problem.

TMW - I am glad you wrote all that down because it is good to do so - not a case of you feeling sorry for yourself at all, just a clear exposition of what you have to deal with on a daily basis and how complicated it really is.

As to your qu, when will you stop coping and start living again, there is no easy answer to that. It will happen one day, it will sneak up on you almost unnoticed; in fact it will probably go on for a while before you even realise that it has happened. But it WILL happen.

I have a story that might cheer you up a bit - I think I mentioned I had an ex who left me in a state for a while - we had been together for 11 years, due to be married in 3m time when he pissed off with a secretary (the blush

cliché of it!). Over the following year, I felt my need for him to return slowly diminish but it wasn't until his lovely grandparents phoned me, almost exactly a year after he left (they had been in regular contact) that I realised I was "over" him.
They phoned to let me know that I should look out for varicose veins if I was still horseriding, as they were concerned that riding without stirrups might have contributed to my ex's VVs (he was 31) - which he had just had stripped from both legs and had to be wearing full length surgical stockings every day, over Valentine's Day and his anniversary with his new bint.
I don't quite know how I kept the laughter down while I was talking to them, probably out of respect for them cos they were lovely, but as soon as I was off the phone I PMSL. Justice! grin

OK, now back to you - your H's messages are a bit worrying - they are fully focused on him only, far too "me me me". You don't need that in your life. You have enough to deal with in looking after your son, who does indeed sound like a handful.
Without wishing to get too kooky on you, have you tried any physical therapies on him? Sometimes mood "disorders" can be down to dietary influences, sometimes cranial osteopathy can help, sometimes acupuncture can help. Given that you're not getting much out of the psych profession, it might be another avenue to explore? Even just something as simple as using one of the essential fatty acid supplements, e.g. Equazen EyeQ could make a big difference (unless you've already tried this avenue?)

Anyway - enormous {{{{{{hugs}}}}}} to you, keep talking, always here to listen and help if possible

He is what??!! On what grounds?

Heh, that reminds me of my ex. She made all sorts of claims that she was going to lodge formal complaints, see her MP, take SS to court etc etc etc >Yawn<

It was all empty threats. The worst she did was turn up to a few SS meetings drunk and swear at the social worker hmm

As you say, it's not your problem.

On what grounds? shock

I doubt he'll get very far

He really does have a big problem in taking responsibility for himself doesn't he?

Oh feck...he is suing SS.

Not my problem but AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

Don't be

Mits, I hope that getting it all out helps in some way.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you

I think it's very low that you're being emotionally blackmailed, it would seem that he's twisting the situation so that his behaviour is meaningless and it's your fault because you won't forgive and forget. However, you need to do what's best for yourself and for your dc's, I do think that after a period of readjustment you will be a happier family unit without him.

<<psst..go and look at fb. One of your friends has a new profile pic>>

don't be

you have so much going on

Ooh, who iscoming to see you tomorrow? Somebody nice?

OK...not completely fair. A neighbour has offered to look after DC's so I can go kickboxing...And a friend is coming to see me tomorrow,

I am blush

at my self pity...

TW Yes I need to talk veyr badly..

.....I get quite a lot of, ''I am alone and lonely and will be for the rest of my life, because you are an extraordinary woman and I want you back, and will never love anybody else,'' and it is very easy to make me feel bad about myself. Because I have my own problems.

And the truth is, however badly H has handled things, DS is a monumentally difficult child to be around and I have struggled with him from a young age. He was born disattisfied. If you buy him something, it is the wrong colour, if you give him pocket money, he wants more. He seems to thrive on conflict and chaos and this was the case long before the problems with H and I arose. I the end, it became one of the major splits betwen us.

I have had DS seen by numerous people, who say he might be on the very lower end of the spectrum for ADHD and/or aspergers syndrome. The specialists observe him and say with a wry smile that we do seem to have a challenge on our hands.

His mentor spent little time with him, was taken in by DS's charming exterior, as were camhs and recommended parenting skills and 'breathing' with him. Without judging him, H simply can not manage him and in all honesty a lot of the time I struggle. He is a social hypochondriac and for 3 yrs (before the rift with H and I) we have had him analyse the way everyone looks at him, treats him, talks to him, what is fair or unfair, he appears to thrive on conflict and absorbs energy. If we are in a family group, he often wants to be the centre of everybodies attention and disrupts things to get it.

He has many many fine qualities but is very complex. And I recognise that he is just a child. He is coming home for lunches at the moment and I greet him with a smile and we laugh and hug, but to be honest, it is hard work and he is obsessed with having issues.

We have nearly resolved his bullying problems, and someone happened to mention 'peer pressure', so now I get
'you don't understand mum, I am under a lot of peer presssure.'

He takes my breathe away, but sometimes you just need to breathe normally.

So I empathise with H. Even DS's older brother who thinks the world of him has talked of how difficult DS is to manage, and he comes from a large family with lots of children, His mum works with children with special needs, and provides short term foster care. My mum and dad think he is great, but wouldn't offer to have him for the day.

And yes, he feels the rejection, knows he is hard work, but the bloody specialists all miss the point because time after time, they see him at his best because he is getting the attention he craves. And no-one will spend enough time with him to get his trust to find out what is making him tick a little out of synch. His mentor spent more time with me to the point that I now have concerns about his professionalism. And I thought I was doing the right thing for my son. But he pays me compliments and took DS out no more than 2 or 3 times.

There is a history of pschizophenia in H's family and I feel sick at the thought that we are completely missing the point, because I think as a mother, you just know when there is something not quite right in your childs world.

How the fuck am I supposed to handle all of this? I don't need to be making a complaint against a social worker FFS.

So I don't answer the phone until I am sure who it is, Get 2 children to 2 different schools, try to keep my business going, do all the housework (H and I were very balanced about that), Ds will have his rages for some time, DD is very very good but I have to make sure she comes out of this balanced. Fit in a busy term of school activities, keep fending off the 'nosy' questions from people who I know do not have my best interests at heart. And anything else that life throws at me randomly.

I am not feeling sorry for myself, I keep trying to take it in my stride, but when does it stop? When do I stop coping, and start just living? I don't even want much for myself,

And guilt because somewhere down the line of all the shit that was going on, I connected with someone that under different circumstance I would very much liked to have got to know. And even though I know it isn't true, it feels like this is all my fault because of that fact.

I have some fabulous friends and MN is ace but I don't feel like I have much left to keep giving, but life won't stop just because I have reached that point.

But I get up, look at the day, and just keep hoping that somewhere down the line, I can look back and shudder at the memory and get on with life. A quiet, non complicated, non confrontational life where I can be who I want, if I can remember who that is by the end of all this.

But Ds has had a bad day at school so I need to brace myself for the full force of his unhappiness.

there were commas missing, try

b) kind of prepare the kids before they see him again, so they know that, whatever he says, this (ie you're not together) is the situation and that's it?

Morning Mits - is it still morning there?
<confused>

Sunday sounds hard, but you got through it, right? And you managed one of ds's rages by yourself, so now you know it can be done.

Have you called Women's Aid?

Can you work it out so H sees the kids without you, so there isn't that fake, But Look! I was Nice for an Entire Afternoon, so Why Won't you Take Me Back, Unreasonble Woman? manipulation to be got out of it?

And if you're still feeling strong and sure about making the break now (and I really, really hope you are) could you:

a) ask H not to talk to the kids about coming back because it's not going to happen and he's going to hurt them (I know he probably won't listen)

and b) kind of prepare the kids before they see him again, so they know that whatever he says this is the situation and that's it?

I also think it's fine to say to ds that you don't want H back, you don't want to live with him. I know his behaviour towards you is less important to you than his behaviour towards ds at the moment, but maybe ds knows that too - so more guilty feelings...

Are you all right TMW? want to talk about it?

Thanks Molly, (())

Bit of a rollercoaster day.

Mits, have been away and missed all this. Just want to add my support and love x

Thanks Vacaloca... smile

I am trying to keep busy at the moment. I like the weekdays because they are quiet and I don't feel so overwhelmed..

TMW - just catching up after being away all weekend. Sorry yesterday was a bad day but as everyone says, this is likely to be the worst period. I still think you're being amazing. I hope you have some time to yourself to relax and pamper or even break down momentarily if needs be. Remember to look after yourself too, yes?

ah, I love that upside. I was talking to my Dad about family stuff today and said that I didn't resent my ex for walking out on me because I got my own house out of it and the biggest bonus was never having to see/deal with his mother again! grin

Oh heck, nowI will have to IRON you, and I am an amateur!!
<squirts randomly>
Now, where is thetemperature control?

Ta ABW....

<crumples undignifiededly>

See? You really are doing brilliantly [awe] smile

Yes, tonight has really truly been the only problem since he walked out on wednesday. They are generally more co-operative, happier to help me and take care of each other.

Today must have been so confusing for them and I think once he can have access to them on his own, I will plan something nice for them when they come back so the transition from being with Daddy is easier.

We were all emotional and stressed tonight and after 4 such lovely days together I wasn't prepared for one of DS's rages.

And MIL isn't speaking to me at the moment so that is an upside wink

you may well be right there TMW - and it is now time to break the cycle, as your H is obvioulsy an emotionally manipulative man and your DS is possibly on the brink of going the same way - how great it will be to take him out of that cycle and let him be free and responsible for his emotions!

I know it's early days, but do you feel a small lightening of the emotional load? A lull in the emotional storm? A trough in the emotional rollercoaster? (is that enough metaphors for you? wink

)
I know you have your own feelings of loss and sadness to deal with, and those of your DCn, but at least you don't have to be on eggshells worrying about your H's emotional trials now.

That is a good idea TW, I proabably am sort of doing that a bit.

Looking back at my relationship with H, a lot of it has been around his feelings, his jealousies and insecurities, how my physical pain make s him feel, how my friends made him feel...

I think sadly this might be as a result of an emotionally manipulative mother (with whom I have a mixed relationship normally), but to be blunt there is sod all I can do about that and DC's are my primary concern.

TMW - I don't know what words you are using when you tell your DS it isn't his fault - but I want to let you know this point - it is a good idea to try and avoid using negatives, i.e. it is not your fault.
The reason being that the brain isn't any too bright at hearing the word "not" or working out what it means, without first processing the thought that it is not supposed to be doing. So in other words, when you say to someone "Don't fall off that chair" - the first thing they hear/process/understand is "fall off that chair" and then they do the "don't" part (sometimes by then they have fallen off the chair).

So, better to say "the reason your Daddy has left is because of his drinking and the fact that he can't control it" - i.e. give the statement as a positive and leave out anything about it being "not your fault, DS".

Also, and I know this will be hard for you to do, you must try to let go of thinking about what your H is thinking/feeling because it is completely out of your control, and now out of your jursidiction as well. Concentrate on the people who you can help - you, your DS and your DD. He is beyond your help. He can think/say whatever he wants - your job now is to make sure you translate it into Real Life stuff for your DC, so that they understand that Daddy needs help because he isn't well, and he has to get that help because he has made everyone sad for too long.

Phallic jokes? Moi? shock

The grandparents of my DSS's sent me their love.... sad

You are right TW, I know DD's easy nature draws attention to DS's challenging one just because it is so.

I keep reassuring DS that it is not his fault that Daddy chose to leave but H tells everyone that he will now do anything to get back together as a family and DS hears this and doesn't understand.

I am having it all thrown at me from so many different directions I can't catch all the balls as it were.

DS is supposed to be having counselling, but he sits in the appointments a fairly well adjusted little boy and doesn't trust anyone to really confide in.

He feels disloyal to his Dad.

Who can't control his jealousy after someone was unfaithfull to him over 20 years ago, but can't make the conection that an 11 year old boy is not going to going to be deeply marked by all of this, just because he has one nice afternoon with them after HE WALKED OUT ON THEM.

Somebody beam me up before I explode.

Or kidnap me.

Toot, you have the job as my secretary and rottweiler, but only if you promise to keep the phallic jokes to a minimal... grin

TMW - it is such early days, everything will be in major turmoil for a while. 2 days off the booze means nothing in terms of your H's situation - he needs to demonstrate that he can stay off it forever and he needs to do it elsewhere.

I suspect your DS fears that it is HIS fault Daddy has left and is transferring his guilt onto you, so that he doesn't feel so bad himself - not a good habit to get into but he's only young, it can be dealt with.
Similarly he is probably very jealous of the fact that his little sis is a good girl and that he can't control himself, hence being nasty to her - an outward expression of his inner guilty feelings.

I don't want to sound like a cod psychologist, and I don't know more than from this thread about your family life, but it might be an idea to get him some counselling to help him deal with his rages and his inner feelings that spark them, so he can learn to understand and control his feelings at this age, when it is technically easier for him to change.

Reinforce to your DS that the reason his daddy has left is entirely his daddy's fault, because he can't control his drinking and it makes everyone sad. And remember it for yourself too!

(((hugs))) - you can do this, it will get better, it just feels like a black pit of despair at the mo but there will be shafts of light (sounds like many of them will come from your DD - she sounds like a treasure - think how much nicer it will be for her to grow up in a calm secure environment too)

Oh Mits {{{{{{{}}}}}}} wish I had a magic wand
But it will come right.

Bless dd...give her a special hug from me. She is so like you.

Mits you will have that life. Please believe it.

This stage is a step on the journey towards it, however hard it may seem right now.

YOu're being so strong, and it shows in the way you are dealing with the DC - they way you describe having spoken to DD etc

It will come right in the end.

Much love to you tonight x

crap crap day.

Because Daddy was so lovely today it is all my fault that he has left. Two hours of a childs rage and hatred is pretty hard to stomach. However I try to acknowledge where it is coming from.

Daddy has stopped drinking so I should just let him come home and everything will be OK, and H says he saw none of the 'fear' in DS today that he is 'allegedly supposed to have of him'.

And it is my own fault for being in this situation because I have made the choice to not let us be together......

And I have just burst into tears in front of his boss, who came to the front door.

( he and H don't get on) and I assumed he had come to have a go at H for his abscences at the moment and pre-empted by politely asking if he could give H a bit of space to sort things out and he had only come to say the factory wouldn't be open in the morning.

H is being very 'reasonable' and 'rational' and telling people how much he wants to help DS, and everyone thinks he is so laid back.

Arsebuggerywankingfuckingshittycrap.

It doesn't feel at the moment like I will ever have the quiet normal life that I want.

And my DD, apart from messing her bedroom, has asked for nothing, quietly played in her bedroom while my DS raged for two hours , getting her own supper, and is singing to herself. I love my son to pieces, but I want to take her for a day and treat and pamper her, and have a girly tie, because she has no anger in her heart and brings such simple joy.

I feel crap for saying that when DS is in such turmoil, but she really is a special little girl.

DS raged last week, and he is horrible to her, calling her names, sneering at her and mocking her, so I took her to the garden when I had the chance, and as we talked I asked how she felt and what she thought we should do when he talked to her like that (thinking she would say ground him or something) and she said..'perhaps if we took him somewhere nice for the day, he would feel better and not say those things...'

but I ain't gonna beat you with them.
hugs xx

with optional wet fish

of course you don't wish him to be homeless, tipped over th edge etc but you absolutely need to allow him to sort this out for himself.

you need to let him fail. only then will he be able to pick himself back up.

it's upsetting but it is the key to recovery.

He has to leave his mums because it is impossible to get to and from work from her house. It makes me smile a tiny bit because they are very similar and her views can be somewhat overwhelming and whatever her age she can be very 'intense'.

I might give the customers that actually phone me my new mobile numba, I actually get a signal at home on my new network so that would possibly help.

I don't think it will get to a point where he is trying to get in forcefullly, and I am prepared to help contact his friends to see if any will let hi stay until he has found somewhere. He can do it himself but I would feel more reasssured in my own mind if I was certain he was both safe and temporarily settled. Whatever has happened I have no wish for him to be homeless, tipped over the edge and lost to the DC's completely.

People are being nice and it is cracking me up. Stupid really. Of course they are but it is my downfall at the moment. Perhaps they could all carry wet fish to beat me with instead of bringing me cans of red-bull, kitkats and hugging me.

I am meeting H with DC's somewhere away from home as they want to see him and I have no qualms about their safety normally.

I am ringing AA and womans aid tomorrow, I know I will fall apart and DC's will be safely at school.

Fuck, this is hard.

(50p in the swear pot)

Mits love, you are doing really, really well. I'm proud of you

And I think you're wrong about this being the honeymoon period with the kids, I think it really will be much easier long term - in about 6 months you'll be amazed at the difference. Think of these as early glimpses of what life will be like when everything's settled down a bit.

I think this is the worst thing you have to get through, today and the next few weeks, and look at you! You're managing fine. I really mean that, Mits. Given everything that's going on, you couldn't do better. Your anger - in fact the whole emotional rollercoaster - is completely normal, and you're expressing it in appropriate, adult ways.

For today, it sounds like not being at home isn't going to be an option, but I don't really like the idea of you sitting in the house with all the doors locked and bolted all day, either. Is there anyone who can come and spend the day with you, to help if necessary and just be company to get you through it? The same person could answer the phone for you and find out who's calling - mil could always be told you're too distraught to speak to her. Someone suggested calling Women's Aid, they might have other ideas to help you stay in control of the situation. Does anyone know if it's possible to phone the local police (obviously not 999) before something happens, to tell them you're concerned that he might turn up and demand to be let in the house, you don't want him there and SS don't either? You shouldn't have to deal with this alone.

Mits: TBH the simple answer to the why is 'Because he's a knobber.' Yes, alcoholism is an illness, but it's a treatable one. And not all alcoholics are violent and abusive and fuck their kids up - some just drink themselves stupid till they die but don't abuse other people. He might well have been a selfish knobber without the drinnking - certainly right now his mindset is that he matters and no one else does, and theat everyone should be supporting him and worrying about him and indulging him.

Mits, anger is an entirely appropriate emotion at times. Alcoholics can be monumental pains in the arse. They can be selfish to an astonishing degree, manipulative, abusive, and contradictory. Who wouldn't get pissed off being treated like that? The trick is to use that anger as a positive emotion, a source of energy to spur you on.

When dealing with an alcoholic, life gets immensely more simple if you ignore what they say and, instead, pay attemtion to what they do. He knows that his drinking has caused immense problems in your relationship, yet he continues to drink. He knows that his anger issues when he's been drinking deeply affect DS, yet he continues to drink. It doesn't matter what words he may try to use to excuse that, to deflect blame, to divert attention or otherwise cover it up - his actions really do speak much more loudly.

As to "Why?" The simple answer is "because he's an alcoholic". Alcoholism - any serious drug addiction - plays merry hell with ones priorities, sense of self, sense of responsibility and sense of what is a good idea or not. The "alcoholism is an illness" thing does not absolve his responsibility for his choices and his actions. Neither does it mean that they get to hurt us with impunity, or that they can treat us badly but we'll always go back for more. Their alcoholism is their problem to deal with. Ours is to decide how much we will allow their alcoholism to continue to disrupt our lives.

It's shitty, but it is what it is. Alcoholism fucks people up and causes huge amounts of drama and chaos. When my ex and I were still together I'd get a knot of tension in the pit of my stomach whenever I was heading home. I never knew what would confront me when I opened the door - she might be sober and pleasant, she might be drunk and in a party mood which would quickly turn sour unless I joined in, or she might be drunk and angry. These days, I look forward to getting home as that's where the kids and I can chill out and have fun. It's a nice feeling.

Mits, can you lock the doors tomorrow? Would your parents sit with you or would that be a bad thing? Or a friend?

NOT stupid or useless.
And not paranoid...worried.

DSS was being nicebecause he is a good person andhe likes you and understands at least some of what hasbeen going on.

When the phone rings, IF you decide to answer it, take a deep breath andbe prepared to say, " I can't talk to you right now." And put the phone down.

H's mother can't be totally blind to his problems, but is biassed towards him. You do not need to speak to her. Herwarped ideas will do you no good. You areallowed to say that you do not wish to speak to her.

Why does H have to leave his mum's?

I wish I could comeandbe your secretary and your rottweiler.

You areactually doing bloody brilliantly.

Really big hugsxxxxxxx

TMW- you are not simple. You are a strong sensible woman who has been put down and undermined for a long time by a controlling manipulative alcoholic git.

Get an answerphone that you can hear the messages on - let it screen your calls for you. That way, you only get the calls you want to pick up.

Don't worry about his brother, be grateful that he isn't bothering you.

If you are really worried he will turn up, then lock the doors against him. If you have bolts, use them. If he tried to force entry, call the police.

Please don't worry about your MIL - of course she is going to side with her DS, it takes a very special woman not to (they do exist). In the end, if she wants to maintain some kind of sensible regular contact with her DGs she will sort herself out eventually, but she too has to come to terms with her DS's problem, difficult when he still denies it.

If your DSS was nice to you, it's because he thinks you're worth being nice to. Just because your H hasn't thought this for some time, doesn't mean others have to conform to his warped view.

It's going to take some time to get over this whole situation but you CAN do it, you have your DC to help and support and give you strength to do it.

Hey, hang on there...I am typing a reply but I is slow...

I am so lost. Really.

Thanks TW.

He has to leave his mums tomorrow and I am dreading that he will turn up here. He has friends, although we lost regular contact with a lot of them, but he has so far refused to even talk to them, I tried to encourage him to some time ago to help him sort things out.

I feel so stupid and useless. And paranoid. Am glad his brother hasn't called, but wonder why. DSS was really nice but was he justbeing nice for DC's sake? H's mother is almost definately going to call once H has left and some of my customers have blocked numbers so how do I know when it is her or one of them? She is really not happy with me.

H is extremely good at being in a confrontational situation, he really should have been a lawyer, his mind is at its best when he is railing against something. But his feelings against authorities is already an isssue, and I am no match. I am so fucking simple.

Doesn't really matter if it is alcoholism from that point of view. He is totally in the wrong and responsible for his actions past and present.

My Ex used to do that....pack a bag and bugger off. I was left at home 'holding the baby'....literally. I would phone to find out where he was and ask him to come back and i would hate myself for it.
THUMBWITCH...you are so rite... you are fuelling his power by putting up with his nonsense. Wish i had had the courage to tell my Ex to get stuffed and push off. We had a mutual split in the end and it was very hard.

TMW - you have every right to be very angry. Although alcoholism can be seen as an illness, it takes a long time for it to reach that stage, and your DH could have prevented it from getting that far. He didn't.

I am always very suspicious of the emotional outpourings - I think they stem from fear - fear of losing his wife, his DC, his home, his status among friends and the community - rather than from actually caring what he has done. If he loved you as much as he said he does, then WHY treat you so badly?

Answer: he just doesn't love you enough. He might say he does, he might even think he does; but he doesn't. This is his failing, not yours.

One day, when this is all over and you have rebuilt yor self-confidence, you will meet a lovely man who WILL love you enough - and you will find out the difference.
At the moment it won't feel like it - I know I didn't feel like it would 14 years ago when my ex left me (no DC thank God) - but I have, and we have a lovely DS to show for it.

Keep talking to us on here - I wish MN had been around 14 years ago! There's always some bod to talk to.

Big (((hugs))) again.

I find it hard to accept whether or not H's drinking falls in the definition of 'alcoholism'...

if it is, I know it is an illness and I should empathise with him, -his behaviour, his emotional abuse is a symptom of an illness-, because don't we with any other illness?

But it could be so crap, how can you not see that the way you are treating someone is so damaging?

I will call AA but can't fall apart around the DC's, and I very badly feel I am falling apart now.

Mits, I have to drive to thestation and back. Just for a change. But am textable. Back in about an hour xx

Yes, it is okay to be angry. Very very angry.
Nobody should go through what you have been through.
He has been so so selfish.
The alcohol is not a valid excuse for behaving the way he has.

But now a line has been drawn under it, and he cannot do it any more.
You and the dcs can start to heal. It will take time but it will be okay.
Take it in little stages.
When it hurts lots, come and talk on here or you can get me any time.
You are travelling in the right direction now.

And one day you will be free from all the hurt.

Thinking of you lots and always here for you.

Big hugs xx

Mits, my ex was not an alcoholic but he has done some similar things - physically, emotionally and mentally hurt me (in front of DS), threatened to kill himself (he had no intention of actually doing it), curled up on the floor and cried and, at other times, was more normal and affectionate. It was so confusing. Whatever his issues, he really messed with me and that was totally unfair and left me feeling sad and angry. Even now it is all over, I still feel sad about it and angry too. I don't know that it will ever go away completely. But it does get easier.

Do you have someone to talk to?

Even if someone has a drink problem is is ok to be fucking angry with them?

Because I am tired and lost and lonely and sad. Because I don't know how to do this. And it hurts.

It really really is shit.

I feel so guilty and crap, and his anger is so imense that I can not really express it. I am no match for him. But how can you say you love someone and then hurt them so much? Over and over again.

He knew he had a problem and recognised he was screwing things up.

So why do they keep drinking? How can you be so tender and yet so much of a monster at times, and yes I am being strong but I am terrified of my own feelings because I don't think I can actually handle them.

I don't want to remember certain parts of my marriage because it got pretty shitty and that really really is so sad. And then when he has cried how sorry he is, about how he will be lonely for the rest of his life because he has never known anyone like me, so why? if I was so special did he treat me and DC's so badly? He has taken my heart and broken it over and over again and now I have the bits and a screwed up DS and a life to rebuild and he will never ever understand what he has done.

And no one will really know. How bad it got. I don't really 'do' anger but I could shout and rage and smash things and get the poisin out of my head and my mind because in moments like this, it is killing me.

why?, why? why? why? why?

Okay. Well shout if you want me xx

stuff to do, but thanks, need to keep organised or I will fall apart.

((((())))))

can do fb chat later if that is any help xx

wish I could be there
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Just feel like crying Toot.......

Just dropping off a basket of hugs... xx

I have sort of accepted that snorbs, and earlier in the thread blinks said about supporting him from a distance...keeping a good relationship with his sons, ( i think I might be burning in hell where his mother is concerned), keeping controlled access to DC's, and if I can help him find somewhere else to live, I will. I don't want him back here... sad

, too much for too long,

Thumbwitch.. my family are OK, my Dad is generally very controling and says it is not their place to get involved with issues between a man and a woman. But they would help in a practical way regards to the children..

Fruitysunshine, your post was not simplistic...life gets overcomplicated and it is too easy to look for complications so they don't surprise the crap out of you..

I am going to put a sign on the door..''please don't be nice to me or I will burst into tears and throw my arms around you for a hug....... ''

If I keep saying thank-you it is because I really think I would have falen apart without the support on here. RL friends are good, but can't be there all the time but with MN, there is usually someone around whatever time a crisis crops up....

so Thank-you.

Mits, I can so understand your feelings that your ex should sort himself out for the children. It's entirely reasonable for you to think that because, I'm sure, you'd do anything for your children and so cannot imagine that he wouldn't.

But alcoholism can be a very very tough thing to beat. Moreover, it takes a long time to be sure that they've really turned the corner. The majority of alcoholics who stop drinking will relapse, often repeatedly. Many progress from daily drinking to a cycle of periods of sobriety interspersed with out-of-control binges.

What I'm trying to say is... Try not to get your hopes up. He will drink, or not drink, entirely for his own reasons. You didn't cause his drinking problems, you cannot control his drinking, and you can't cure his alcoholism. It's all up to him.

I am glad things are looking up somewhat, Mits.

Virtual apple pies for you smile

Well, I'm glad his son has been ok. And been to see the DC - that's very good.

Without knowing your DD, I imagine there is a bit of both. If I were her, I would feel a lot more relaxed although I'm sure that brings up mixed feelings and she's bound to miss him too.

Of course you feel sick. This is horrible sad

It WILL get easier though. I won't say it'll be easy but having the unpredictability removed from your lives will help. And perhaps this will give H the time he needs to get himself straightened out.

I hope you have someone nearby who can help out and bring you apple pies.

I threatened to call the police once SB... sad

His son has been with him and has come to see DC's...he really is a lovely man. If he is angry with me for the position his dad is in with the SS, he is not showing it.
I feel sick though.

DD is chirpy, despite starting a new school on monday, and her Dad not being here. I can't decide if she is 'well adjusted', or internalising things. I keep giving her the chance to talk and encourage her to ring her Dad, but she is bright and bubbly most of the time.

Thank you to all and as much for the practical advice and links.. have spent four days with the children, and come monday will start to look at the practical side of things....

We have had a lovely time together and because everytning is so much more relaxed it isn't as hard work as I though it would be. I have a lot more time because I am not dealing with so much anger and rage. Although I am sure this is a sort of 'honeymoon period' and things will not be so much easier always.

That sounds like a good idea, Mits. I hope it helps DS.

No-one wants this - it is awful. But your DC will be better for it. And, hopefully, with time, they will have the father you want them to have.

Try not to worry about what people think of you - it is your DC that matter. You're not a bad egg, far from it.

Not intending to let him back, but SS said to me that because he isn't considered to be a high risk (last incident at easter) so it wasn't enforcable but that a dim view if he returned.

I so didn't want this.

I would like to think for the DC's, he will get help and be the Dad I have seen him be. However hurt and angry I am, I do not intend to lose my humanity, and in the long run as the father of my children, I owe it to them to protect them but also if at all possible, let them have a father for them to respect and admire. But this will be under very different circumstances.

His family have mixed feelings, but as far as MIL is now concerned I am a thoroughly bad egg.

I am still not answering the phone.

I gave DS some cans of cider and a baseball bat and some privacy in the garden..............

Mits, what's happening now?

Have the Police ever been involved?

I think you would be very unwise to let H back in now.

Are your family supporting you and helping with the dc?

great advice snorbs.

Sadly, I can believe that SS said that. How much power they can bring to bear depends a lot on what SS's current involvement is. If DS is on the Child Protection Register then SS can do quite a lot although, even then, they'll often do the least they can get away with. If it's more a "child in need" rather than "child at risk" thing, however, SS's powers are very limited.

From SS's point of view, DS's situation has improved (as his dad's not there to treat him badly) and DS is being looked after by someone who can be relied upon to put DS's best interests first - Mits. So SS can take a simplistic view of "Don't let him back and everything will be fine".

The biggest stick that SS has to wield here is that if Mits did let her ex come back, SS could very well see Mits as being non-compliant with their wishes and deliberately putting DS at risk. And that's the kind of situation where SS can go to a judge for a care order.

Mits, I think that it would be well worth you having a chat with your Social Worker about precisely what SS is expecting of you and how they think you can stop him returning. And then whatever they recommend, follow it up with a letter to them saying "Thanks for your time on <date>, just to make sure I understood, here's what you said I should do..." That will then go in the records and will cover your butt if they later go back on what they said. With SS, if it's not on paper it didn't happen.

I, too, think Women's Aid will be able to offer a lot of good advice and support right now. Rights of Women will also be able to offer legal advice. Whether he can just waltz back in depends on whether he's on the mortgage or lease for your home. Again, either Women's Aid or Rights of Women can help you come up with an appropriate plan to protect you and the DCs.

All the best.

you will let down your children if you let him back.

they need calm and emotional stability.

give your mobile phone to a friend and ask them to pass on anything that is actually necessary.

he knows your weak spots so you need to have a shield of steel (like batfink... am showing my age).

please get in touch with al-anon. they'll offer you support and understanding.

That's a bit rubbish of SOcial Services. Are you sure that's what they said and not what H said? Tell him that he isn't coming back because, due to his alcoholism and general tiresome behaviour, you DON'T WANT HIM BACK. Tell all callers that you are sick of life with an alcoholic, the relationship is over and you are not going to discuss it any further.
Yes, people will tell you that he needs you, you are so good for him, etc etc. Remember that this has a lot to do with the deeply ingrained cultural idea that men simply matter more than women, that women should 'look after' men, that 'love' means endless servicing. Itls all crap. That link someone posted about how alcoholics get dumped and deserve it was spot on.

Have SS told you that they can't enforce it? Would you feel unsafe if he came back? Cos if so, maybe you could contact Womens Aid to see if they have any advice on how to keep him away - I know if there is serious risk you can get an injunction against him but not sure that it's gone that far for you yet.

Do you WANT him to come back? I know that, in an ideal world, what you would love is for the man you knew before to come back, fall on your neck in a welter of love and apology for his shit behaviour, and assurance that he has changed for good. But it ain't going to be that way, and others who have been in/involved with your kind of situation have said it would be a Bad Thing to have him back, especially with the unacknowledged behaviour issues.

Ignore all busybodies etc. Have you got Caller ID display on your home phone? I think you can buy one fairly cheaply, then you can screen all incoming calls and only answer the ones you want to.

How supportive are your own family being?

(((hugs))) to you anyway

SORRY. Ignore name.

SS don't seem to be helping you much, saying he isn't allowed back but that they can't do anything.
Say if I can help by making any phone calls for you.

So sorry. Don't talk to anybody you don't have to just for now, it will get easier.

H mustn't come back.
<sends large muscled men to guard door>

Would CAB be able to help?

Take care of you {{{{{{{}}}}}}}

P.S. Did you eat the phone?

Really really not doing very well...it is now commom knwledge and I am stuggling to talk to people....

H is talking about just coming back because social services say it is an informal agreement not something they can legally enforce.

I don't want it to be like this,

Mits, I am really hoping that you areokay.
{{{{{{{}}}}}}} xxxxxxx

I'm sure that the phone would count as a good proportion of fibre!

What's the problem with getting someone to look after the dcs for you for a few hours while you go for a run on your own? I think that this would be really good - you need some time and space on your own, without having to be 'mummy' at the same time. This is a big change, huge disruption and big impact upon you - some time to yourself, without having to be 'strong' for your children would be a good thing.

I do hope that you and the children have a positive weekend. I hope you go out and do something fun togehter - ideally somehting that is 'different', but even if its just a picnic of what you would have had at home anyway in the local park, doing something like that would probably be a positive thing to do for all of you.

(((TMW))))

Hope you can get your run xx worth doing.

Mits, the phone is okay if you have at least 2 portions of veg with it.

ps, phones don't count wink

Mits, I have skimmed the thread.

I hope you are coping ok. I wish I could help.

I think it is good that SS have said that - it is the right thing to do, for you and the DC, but it isn't your decision now - H will have to respect what SS say. Perhaps he can take this time to think about things and you and the DC can relax in the knowledge that he isn't going to come bursting in and upset anyone.

(((((hugs)))))

God, if his brother rings I will eat the poxy phone. (does that count toot?)

Dunno Toot, pretty wired as well, might wangle a baby sitter so I can go for a run. Although it will mean admitting all is not well in the world of Mitsubishi...

Does he acknowledge that he's an alcoholic, do his family acknowledge it? That's what I was trying to get at earlier, are people naming what is going on here? Because normally in the families of alcoholics denial is the name of the game.

His family talking about your "relationship", when the elephant in the room is his behaviour and his alcoholism, is bound to make you feel awful.

FWIW, my advice would be to say "I cannot be in a relationship with an alcoholic any longer" and keep repeating it until they get it through their heads. Whilst everything else is being focused on apart from his behaviour and his alcoholism, nothing is going to improve.

Mitsubishiwarrioress - I hope my opinion did not come across as simplistic and ignorant, I was just trying to think of a way for you and your kids to get a break was all. I am sorry that you are experiencing this, it is truly awful when your marriage breaks up but I did not have the element of alcoholism associated with it.

I'm thinking of you.

Fruitysunshine

Mits, try and get an early night tonight. And make sure you are eating properly.
xxxxxxx

ps agree with snorbs - you have no reason to speak to his mother.

or to him. unless specific questions/arrangements/finances.

stick to: "only answer a text/email if it requires a yes ro no response or a specific query"

dont speak on phone - ask for tesxts or emails only so you have time to think before responding.

meet him with SS present or neutral friend present if you really want to discuss things.

tired...sad... Ok toot... (())

that is good SS saying that - let there be no doubt in your mind that you doing the right thing.

let SS sort out contact and supervise it or arrange supervision.

they know the dcs are ok with you.

i was in a position where unless i moved out and took the dcs with me (or achieved an injunction to get him to move) , ss might have taken steps . they had a child protection meeting about the situation...(his anger, manipulation, control, aggression etc) , so i do know what you mean.

SS are doing the right thing in pushing you a little in shutting the door to this man while he is like this (on basis alcoholism could be treated and there may be a point in future - long term future - that this position can be reviewed) .

this takes presure off you - you dont have to think any more about letting him in. it is clear -DONT. he can stay with his mother if his mother so wishes...

you ARE doing a good job with dcs and SS can see that.

keep on going, get a normal routine going on with the dcs, start setting up a scheduled weekly or fortnightly contact with their dad if they want that - otherwise just say - no contact for a month (or six weeks or whatever you decide) then see what happens ... and speak to SS.

<ties up self doubt and sits on it>

No Self Doubt [stern]

Thanks snorbs....

trying not to let the self doubt creep in..

Mits, Social Services are doing the right thing. They can see how much your ex's problems are affecting DS and I think a bit of space between them will do DS the power of good. I know how crap and scary this is as I had SS involved in my family, too, as a result of my ex's drinking. I had SS tell me that either I took in our children full-time then and there, or they were going into care shock

It sounds like your ex's mum isn't above a bit of emotional blackmail, either. You don't have to talk to her. At all. Right now, if someone isn't offering you the support and care that you downright need at the moment, you are allowed to just cut them out of your life for a bit.

Take care of yourself.

Yes vacaloca.. sad

. I can't disconnect the phone as I work from home but will only answer numbas i recognise.

Need to catch my breath and put my face on...customers come to my home so I need to gather my dignity...had a bad shouty mummy moment which makes me feel like a three headed gorgon...

DS's are at home because they wanted to be with me but probably would have been better at school. But will go back to normality on monday.
<if I can figure out what 'normal' is>

so emotional blackmail from his mother too? Are they ringing you all the time? I think it might be best to stop answering at least some calls. You need a bit of space to get your head straight and decide what YOU want to happen.

His mum rang in a state to say she didn't know where he was, why hadn't we sent him a birthday card, and some other stuff.

When I spoke to him to tell him what SS had said and that his mum was worried, she knew exactly where he was because he was out shopping for her..(she does not have dementia or anything).

Vacaloca, this is an ongoing thing and I have to report to social servces from time to time as he is (DS) is an existing case... sad

That is not to say that it doesn't feel really shitty right now.

Nuther hug {{{}}}

Mits, perhaps it will make things a little easier if it is out of your hands...?

{{{{{{{{very big hugs}}}}}}}}

How did that happen? Well, in a way perhaps it's good that it's out of your hands, although I bed it doesn't feel that good. What a shitty time TMW. Wishing you strenght and determination. You will be okay.

Social services have said that he is not allowed to come home, the decision is out of my hands.

It doesn't get much worse than this does it?

agree with the others TMW - he isn't going to realise that he has done anything "that bad" - he probably doesnt think his drinking is "that bad" either, so while he's living this self-delusional life, nothing you say will have any impact on his delusions, because to accept one truth, he has to accept the others as well and he doesn't seem to be ready to do that.

So, as SGB says - Don't engage. Step away from his blather, it's not "real" because it's coming from a delusional position.

Sucks that this is your anniversary as well though

DOn't engage.
DO't engage.
Don;t engage,
Remember, what he means by 'I love you and want to come home' is 'I want my dinner cooked, my washing done and my dick sucked, in return for which I will pretend that I am going to get help but waaaah, it's so hard, you have to support me, meeee meee meeeeee!'

"H has just been reitterating how much he loves me and that he wants us to be back together as a family, "

ouch - familiar...

of course he wants that, makes it all easy for him, wont have to face up to issues...

agree to stick to limiting contact.

if you say: ""Do you realise how unhappy I have been for the last x years? Do you realise how unhappy our children have been for the last x years?" " he wil probably turn it back on you and say "but you never told me!" (however much you did tell him)

best not to talk a all. only on specific arrangements re: finance or supervised contact with kids. (supervised by his family if you happy with that)

Sorry, Mits. Not going to be the easiest day, is it?

"from what I can gather H has just been reitterating how much he loves me and that he wants us to be back together as a family, and I have been asked if I realise how unhappy he is."

This stuff, though... you have to stop listening to crap like this. You're being emotionally blackmailed. You could possibly respond by saying, "Do you realise how unhappy I have been for the last x years? Do you realise how unhappy our children have been for the last x years?"

But I think probably wiser, given how much else you have to deal with right now, to limit contact with any & all members of his family who say things like this to you. Not forever, just until everyone accepts that the relationship is over.

dss's are being very understanding,

from what I can gather H has just been reitterating how much he loves me and that he wants us to be back together as a family, and I have been asked if I realise how unhappy he is.

He doesn't as of yet really recognise that his own behaviour has been such a big part of us getting to this point, about the physical aspect, he said it had only happened a small number of times. Whatever he feels in his head about it, he isn't expressing any realisation of how bad it was.

i hear the tone of voice that he uses with DS and wince, but he doesn't feel it is all that inappropriate.

Although obviously not living with them, he was an outstanding Dad to his other sons.... it was one of the things that made him so different. Perhaps sadly, it was being in that position that made him such a good dad. sad

But this is here and now with two young DC's who deserve better from life than they have been getting.

it is our wedding anniversary.... sad

...

TMW - only just saw this. I have to say that, considering what an utterly crap situation you are in, and have been for some time, it seems, you are sounding incredibily strong and together.

I love your wish list and I think you should print it out and have it by your bed and go and read it every so often. It's perfectly achievable.

There's a lot of very wise advice on this thread. Come here and rant as much as you need to and listen to their advice, please. This could be a clean break for you and your DC. Concentrate on them and on YOURSELF.

When you feel strong enough, go down to CAB to get help with your finances. Can you parents or any friend help you out with that too? Stay strong.

keep reading to yourself your Thu 02-Jul-09 20:57:20 post - it is brilliant!

and the link snorbs gave is great - i can replace "alcoholic" with "personality disorder" and it fits my ex exactly...

the ppoint is: think about you and your dcs and how much better life can be with him down the road in a separate house.

I'm really sorry that you're going through this. Living with an alcoholic downright sucks, but the emotional backlash of splitting up with them can be enormous. I've been there, and done that, and I know how disorienting it all can be sad

It's great that you're thinking about what you want from life. I'd recommend you also think about that in terms of the things you have control over and/or can influence, and the things that are other people's responsibilities. Him admitting his role in DS's emotional issues is not something you can control or something that is your responsibility. You supporting your DS and helping him to understand that it's not his fault is something that you can do.

One of the big problems in being in a relationship with an alcoholic (apart from the unpredictable roller-coaster ride of calm to drama, peace to chaos) is that the non-alcoholic gets drawn into the alcoholic's problems. It's very easy for us to end up feeling responsible for doing things that we feel will help them to realise the problems their drinking has caused, or for us to make choices that we think will influence their decision to drink again. While that's a very easy trap to fall into, it's massively counter-productive. It means that our attention is on them and their drinking, rather than on us. Al Anon is great for helping us to crow-bar our attention off of the alcoholic and back on to us, where it belongs. Melody Beattie's book "Co-dependency No More" is very good for that, too, although it might be a bit tough reading right now as she doesn't pull any punches.

One of the hardest, but most liberating decisions I made after I split up with my alcoholic ex was to decide that any decisions I made were to be in my interests, and/or my children's interests. If that happened to coincide with my ex's best interests then, great, everyone wins. If those choices unfortunately inconvenienced my ex then, well, so sad, too bad, not my problem.

You will get through this. It will get better for you and your children. Keep your contact with your ex to the absolute minimum and don't bother arguing about who did what to whom, where the blame lies, the what-ifs and but-maybes. The only things you need to talk to your ex about right now are child contact and money. As for justifying yourself to others, the line "I don't wish to talk about this right now" works, especially if you just repeat it in as bored a tone as possible.

You're going to hurt and that's sad but that's just the way it is. You will feel better. You really will. You'll start to notice you have short periods of feeling ok, and then over time those short periods will get longer and more frequent, and then one day you realise you've had a really great day. Your children will be happy and relaxed, and you'll look back at your relationship with your ex and wonder why you stuck it out for so long.

Finally, I'd suggest you read this. It's from an advice column that is, funnily enough, written by an ex-alcoholic. He sums it up very well.

Hi Mits, how are you feeling today?

I love your list of things you want, of course you can have all of those things.

You don't have to answer the phone to his entire family, so don't. Just don't pick up.

Thinking of you.

TMW - so sorry that you're goign through this at the moment.

Your list of things that you want is not remotely unreasonable. It sounds as though your relationship had become one more of mother figure - you were having to sort everything out, and stop the children (inc dh) from arguing etc as well.

Given your relationship with your dss, is there any chance that you might be able to have a meeting with just one of them at a 'safe' place (eg teashop or similar), making it clear that you don't want to be in a situation where 'sides' need to be taken, but that you need them to understand what your life has been like so that they can help support your H to get some help so that he can have a better relationship with your dcs in the future? It depends upon their characters, clearly, but if it could all be about 'helping H' rather than 'what you have to do to get back together' which is clealry not going to happen, perhaps it might be a way forward?

TMW, your DSSs will probably want to keep in touch with you anyway - apart from anything else, you are mum to their half-sibs, so if they have a good relationship with your DD and DS, they will still be around.

I hope your H's family back off - there is no reason you should have to defend yourself in this position, beyond saying that they have no idea what your home life was really like and how long you have tried to keep going.

You're being very strong - well done - it's not an easy time.
still more unMNly (((hugs))) for you.

it's amazing how fast kids settle down once the focus of the chaos is removed.

it's very frightening to be a child in a house with an alcoholic. it's stressful for everyone involved but especially for a child.

also the emphasis is also often on the main adult relationship and it's breakdown, which draws attention away from the general needs of the children.

don't fall into the trap of bringing him back, only to chuck him out when things aren't getting better... that is one of the worse things you can do for the children. they will lose trust in you (i know i did).

if you're making arrangements for him to see the kids it would be wise to have someone else there and to insist that he's not had a drink. if he drinks throughout the day, maybe seeing them in the morning would be wise.

you'll always get people who have no experience or understanding of alcoholism who may attept to make you feel guilty for taking action. you could tackle them a variety of ways but it's important that you don't let their attitude chip away at you. avoid such people until you feel stronger.

if he suddenly declares that he realises that he's an alcoholic, you absolutely can support his recovery (if that's what he chooses) from a distance. he would need treatment though and you must be separate whilst he sees this through, so don't be fobbed off. also if he was physically abusive (you hinted at that earlier in the thread), you shouldn't have him back at all, sober or not.

MW I don't know what to say.

But am thinking of you.

Here's a very unmumsnetty ((hug)).

DD is telling everybody that Daddy left.....

Ds wants to keep it veyr private...

Actually, I have to say that whilst I feel defensive in talking to DSS's about their Dad, they are the loveliest men, I think very highly of them both and couldn't have asked for nicer DSS's (and their girlfriends), and it has broken my heart that splitting with their Dad may affect my relationship with them..

Actually he is lucky my family aren't of the ilk to iterrogate him, they are as equally loyal and I am related to half of the population of coventry,

<waves to half of coventry that I am related to>

<waves to other half just to be friendly>

oh blinks.... smile

talking on here and him actually not being here has helped clear my head a little.

I think he had planned to come back...he had done it before, but I told him not to.

His Mum kept asking me why when we had had such a strong relatonship in a lot of ways. I aked her to understand that i couldn't go in to detail about how awful things were in the house..(esp to her), but could she understand that to have reached this point, it must have been pretty bad, in order to have made this decision.

I must confess if his brother rings me up as well I am going to find it in me to draw a line in being cross examined by his family, however much it is because they care. My family have not done so to H AND THE PRESSURE OF HAVING TO EXPLAIN MYSELF TO PEOPLE WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE LOYAL TO HIM, IS NOT WHAT i NEED RIGHT NOW.(sorry, loud)

How long before the impact of Dad going do I expect to see real differences? They both had sad moments yesterday, but they were lovely, esp. DS who was very protective and I saw in him what I know he can be like. We certainly diidn't have any rages. But I know there will be a novelty value to the situation...

you need more support. please consider going to al-anon. don't dwell on the opinions of people who have vested interests in the situation or are ill-informed. you ARE doing the right thing. know that.

i like the way you're thinking though... you've got to grips with who's responsibile for this situation.

keep it that way and just keep batting em back. don't even let his desperate efforts permeate your brain. he's struggling and you're his safety net.

focus on your (wonderful) list of what you want. every single one of those things is achievable.

Go team Mitsubishi Warriore! <godawfulcheerleadingmotions>

Thank-you to everyone...has been a saviour today when things started to get too much to come and listen to wise words and have some support.....

It is always such a help to know people are looking out for you even if the support is just a hug or empathy from a well wisher....thanks..

TMW I too have only just seen this - I am so sorry you are having to go through this.

I think you have strong instincts and if you can stay tough and follow them then you will come through this. I wish I could do more for you - just take each day at a time and do what you know is right.

sorry...that was supposed to be tried NOT to nag.....

Yes dittany, repeatedly over the last 2 years (tried to nag), especially last year. Got him to stop drinking super strength lagers (I did used to drink as well), but he bought that the other day.
He walked out last night because I tried to remind him his manner with DS was frightening him... sad

.

Too much for too long.

Well if you gave him the same answer without the sweary words it would be dignified:

"No, your alcoholic consumption, and your inability to control what comes out of your mouth increases his stress levels."

Have you confronted him about his alcoholism?

ta...shiney...keeping on keeping on y'know...

Hello TMW

I have only just seen this. Am very sorry to learn you are having such a tough time. Obviously you have support both here and over on our thread, so feel free to post where you like.

Stay strong and focus on what you KNOW is right. Don't doubt yourself- you are doing the right thing. It is hell now, but it does get better...

X

That wasn't very dignified was it? sad

thanks SGB.....i think I am a bit slow on the uptake......

Mits...
He;s a Wanker. YOu not wanting to be with him is understandable and reasonable. Why on earth would anyone want to 'be with' a selfish, whining, demanding, unreasonable alcoholic?
YOu matter too. YOu have clearly spent way too long thinkin about this man and what he needs and how to love him enough - because he says he loves you. Well if he 'loved' you he would be making an effort to sort himself out and treat you and the DC with basic courtesy and consideration. 'I love you' from wankers like this mean 'Let me do what I like and carry on servicing me, because I am a man and it's really romantic when I say I love you, I don;t actually have to do anything for you.'

OK. I have just had a text from H saying that the level of the computer screen may be affecting DS's stress levels....

WTF.......no you fucking moronic TWAT, your alcoholic consumption, and your inability to control the crap that come out of your mouth increases his bloody stress levels.

A volcano is about to erupt, you don't put a fucking plaster on it for crying out loud.

WHY?????????

If I respond inapropriately it will be me that is being unreasonable , yes dear, lets get a special chair for the computer and I will fetch you a bottle of cider to drink while you read the instructions, and then take the children out so they don't annoy you while you try to figure out how to put it together.
But I won't talk to any men while I am out because I know it makes you jealous and insecure, infact I will wear a niqab and avoid eye contact with anyone.

And then of course I don't mind working and seeing to the DC's bedtime needs while you sit in your room and drink the rest of the cider and listen to music

It is me isn't it?

I want H to accept that things have gone too far and that whilst as the Father of my children and the man I married, I do care, things can not go back to the way they were.

I want him to get a house near enough to the children so that as long as his drinking doesn't become worse, he and the DC's can see each other as and when they like.

I personally would like to have limitted but civil contact with H.

I want to build a quiet, stable loving environment for my DC's, esp. my DS so that he can learn to be the boy I know he has the potential to be, without being scared of his Dad's anger, and equally his own and the fear that he will always be like that and as such, unlovable in the future.

I want some time to myself, so that I can be the person I think I have the potential to be instead of the mopper up of messes. And heal the damage that I myself may have done to my DC's as I have struggled to keep things going.

I am glad H is with his Mum, apparently he slept rough last night, and that is not what I wish for him, although he did choose to walk out.....

I want him to stop putting the whole resolution of the situation on my shoulders, that all I have to say I will take him back and somehow things will be OK. I want him to admit, deep down, the part he played in turning a challenging boy, into an emotional nightmare. And heal the wounds, not because he thinks it will 'get me back', but because my son is important, and the damage is alarming to see.

He had me and things weren't OK. He was angry and disattisfied and complaining and impatient. He was capable of being cruel and unkind, jealous and moody. When things were good, they were good, when they were bad, they were unbearable.

Maybe even one day I would like to be with somebody that doesn't shout..... or maybe it is me that causes the shouting without me knowing how.

I'd like not to feel tired and weary and have a chance to do the thing I love best in relationships (with anyone) and that for the most part, is laugh, and enjoy the simple things in life.

I don't want to feel guilty and bad anymore, and that if I try a little bit harder, I can make things OK.

There's no shame in splitting up with an alcoholic.

I wouldn't be surprised if your DSS wanted you to stick with your dh because otherwise he might become the problem of the rest of the family. Horrible to say but quite possible. You have to put yourself and your ds first though.

H has talked to DDSs and his mum about his overwhelming love for me and how he wants nothing more to be back as part of the family again.

Without going into detail about how we got here I seem like the one who is giving up for no reason. One DSS expressed understanding at his fathers issues but naturally his overriding concern is his dad.

Apparently I 'sound alright'....yes, because I have to, becuase I have a little boy who doesn't know whether to love or hate his own Dad, who needs someone to be alright. To be as consistant and reasoned as life is allowing me to be when really right now I want to really rant and let off steam..

But i must be calm and dignified and 'keep things together'.

sorry - make it - you will never allow him in house again. that dcs will be able to see him if they wish, in a place of their choosing and with support if they need it.

sounds like it IS over and there is not much you can do for him.

he can rebuild relationship with dcs if he gets himself sorted.

There are some fabulous, wise people on this thread smile

you didnt let it get so bad - he did.

poor you and pooor dcs...

"does it induce a kind of negativity and paranoia about life? perhaps not on the same scale as drugs but certainly a kind of 'why is life treating me like this?' "

my ex was like this but without alcohol to blame...alcoholic or not - it is selfish attitude.

agree with other posters - he is an adult. dont worry about him. you will hear soon enough if something happens to him. no news is good news.

tell kids - daddy has gone off for some days to get himself sorted out - may or may not be true but you can put positive slant... until something happens and there is bad news to tell them, why worry about it?

that in meantime you are going to have some quiet fun times together and not worry about him - he is an adult who can look after himself. i like the cinema suggestion....

and do your best to keep hm out of sight out of mind.

plan - for what happens if he turns up - do not let him in. double lock doors and do not let him in - he has to sort himself out. if he pleads/gets agressive/smashes door/windows - call police.

also dont worry about his mother - she has to face the truth sooner or later. it is NOT your responsibility. you dont need to tell her anything other than he has gone and you dont know where he is - if she asks you.

sounds like a clear break - maybe think in terms of weeks, a month before you have contact - will be good for all of you, then later you can arrange contact, controlled and maybe supervised, with dcs if they want it.

when my ex left for his home country after major episode breakdown violence whatever - it was a relief...for all...dcs settled down very well...

maybe telling your son that he has gone off, that you will not allow him back in house for a month at least; that if he is in contact you will not see him alone but only in mediation/family therpyy/with CAMHMs/mentor - situation - maybe telling your son this might help him?
so he knows home is now a safe place?

Oh Mits, give her a hug from me. Ds too. And you {{{{{{{}}}}}}}

Have only texted him once to ask for reassurance for DC's that in their minds, he is still alive.. sad

SGB, am trying to tell DS that sort of stuff over and over again..but this has been too long coming, he really thinks he is bad and I suppose I focussed more on his rages than truly realising the impact it was having on DC's because of the nice bits inbetween.

Went into shop and lad serving said to DD..

'so why are you not at school then?'

and she just said 'because Daddy left us....' sad

Hi toot....((((()))))

Mitsubishi - it sounds truly awful what you are all going through just now.

Your husband has to sort himself out. He has walked out and is expecting/hoping you will all worry and fret about him. That is why he is not responding to your texts because he knows he has you hooked into that train of thought. Stop exerting so much energy into tracking him and start looking after you and your son. Reassure him that hubby has gone to have some time on his own and he is fine. Adults need to do that sometimes. Take the emphasis off of whether your husband is safe or not. Spend time thinking about you and yours. When you stop contacting him you will be surprised how quickly he turns up on your doorstep or even just lets himself back in! If it were me I would be taking the kids out to do something to take their minds off things. Why not go and see a movie tonight or something? If will take both your minds off the situation and allow you both some peaceful, calm time. Baby steps, one day at a time.

Sending some positive engergy for you all.

Fruitysunshine

Tell your DS that it is his father who has caused the breakdown of the family. Daddy;s been naughty because daddy is poorly in the head. It;s very important to emphasise that it is your H who is at fault. Because it is. Yes, he;s ill, alcoholism is a disease, blah blah blah, but he;s also a selfish tosser with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.
Please don't feel guilty about 'rejecting' this man - rejecting a self-pitying addict is sensible positive reasonable behaviour.
He;s gone, let him stay gone and start working on a new life for you and the DC; you can control the tosser's contact with them ie stipulate when and where, and that he's got to be sober, and if you are worried that he will be violent or neglectful you can stop contact till he sorts himself out.
Honestly, don't waste any more time or energy on the H, think 'Good riddance' and concentreate on yourself and the DC.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

not your fault

GP is aware, as are camhs, and I have called his 'mentor' the poor soul is in meltdown, both hating and wanting his dad.

How did I let it get so bad?

could you call parentline ? They might have good advice.

can you call GP? is GP aware of the family issues?

does DS already get seen under CAMHS? if so call them...

if not you can ask for referral - he will need help to deal with all this.

you have a child who needs some help - and that help will help you too...

Oh Mits

I have no wise words for you but couldn't not post. There's a lot of good advice here, his behaviour is down to him and him alone and unfortunately for all of you, until he accepts that and gets help, there isn't much you can do.

Sending gin a hug x

Right now I could tell him how selfish he is because DS had gone into meltdown, I am on my own, he is smashing things and blaming himself for the breakdown of the family. He says he wants to die.

And there is no-one I can call.

it's up to him though to let his kids know he's safe.

he's trying to worry you so that your relief that's he's ok will surpass your anger towards his unacceptable behaviour.

put your children's wellbeing before his. i remember being taken along to find my dad. usually he was drunk somewhere.

it's a roller coaster ride being in the same family as an active addict. you have a choice too though.

don't play the game.

i understand completely your worry though. i would feel the same but it's important to be resolute.

tell your DC he's had to go away for a few days with work.

If he is OK then it is unkind for the DC's not to know that there Daddy is safe.

I do recognise that alcohol problems are complicated and that he is not a 'bad' man, but it is so hard.

Thank-you for your advice blinks, you are helping me see things from outside of the situation...

Thoughts and Prayers. xx

i can guarantee he's not hurt himself.

don't call the police but do call al-anon.

my dad used to mention suicide quite regularly. it's a way of taking focus off the actual addictive behaviour.

doesn't mean he's a bad person- he needs help.

it's up to HIM to get that help though.

by stopping him from his decline, you are actually preventing him from reaching a point where he might ask for help. it's all classic addict/co-dependent stuff.

you're not alone in this. its very common but people are often too ashamed to admit there's in this situation.

the problem with living with and loving an addict is that gradually over time unacceptable behaviour is accepted. lines become blurry and often you end up in a situation that is out of control. at the moment his addiction and bad behaviour is driving the relationships in your family. you need to take that control back.

if he refuses to accept he needs help (have you thought of an intervention? does he have other family members/friends that could offer you support in reaching out to him? anyone you know have addiction problems?) then that's his decision and you must move forward without him.

I know a grown man can make his own choices, but do I contact the police at all, and at what point?

Oh please Mits, I remember my stepfather blaming my mother for his driving ban because she 'drove him to drink'. It's bollocks. Really it is.

I know there are lots of mners who can help with practical stuff. You can find me on fb all the sodding time too if you want to chat

Yes.... you are both right. I can only be responsible for my actions and the DC's, even if H blames me for his actions. (that my rejection is making him the way he is, not that his behaviour has a part in why we are in this mess.). He does blame DS and DS does not need to grow up with that.

Please help me, I know how hard it will be and the next few months are going to be dreadful.

The practical stuff of sorting finances out is as scary as dealing with the children and there feelings..

thank-you...

I too have just seen this...

I am sorry you are going through this, thinking of you too x

from what you're saying, this situation has reached a point where action is required.

i would suggest living seperately if he's been physical and is still drinking.

it's obviously having a real impact on your DS already so that should be your priority (not that it's not but he needs to be protected).

i actually blame my mother more now as an adult as she didn't take action to protect us.

it really can create huge problems for children of alcoholics if nothing is done.

Mits, you poor thing. ((()))

I'm going to risk putting my foot in it here, but...

I think (if h gets his act together and contacts you so you know he's okay) this might be for the best. You haven't wanted to live with him for a long time, for lots of very good, understandable reasons. And from what I've read of your previous threads, your ds may well calm down and be easier to handle if he doesn't have to live with his dad.

You've been trying for a long time, maybe it's just time to make the break. I know it's horrible for everyone, but in the long run I feel like your lives (you and the kids) will be better if you're living apart from H.

Mits, just seen this.

Lots of love to yuo (and dcs) and be strong.

DS is 11 and DD is 6.

DS has massive emotional problems which I know are linked to his relationship to his dad......although the breakdown of our marriage has partly been due to H's inability to cope with a very challenging child.

H was an amazing Dad to his older sons...it is so sad that my DS rarely sees that side of him....

Morning lovie

What is your plan for today?

I would notify the police but I think an adult has to be missing for 24 hours before they start to do anything.

Please do contact al-anon - my mum says they were so, so helpful to her before and after my Dad walked out.

How old are your children?

thanks FB.... sad for people who have been through it..

he has got physical in the past and was supposed to be 'trying'. I wanted him to heal, not for me, but for the DC's and his own dignity and self respect but I can't make his choices for him.

I have to put them first. Will timetable in a personal breakdown when there is time..... sad

Hi Mits

So, so sorry to hear your crap news.

I'm a child of an alcoholic father too - although he was very violent as well (towards my mum, not us).

I know my mum would say contact al-anon - they helped her tremendously.

Thinking of you today.

MW,

This situation has been going on for a long time and if this hadn't have happened now it would have happened at some point in the future. The slightest thing would have made him walk.

You son commenting on his drinking shows that he has been aware of his dad's drinking for a long time even though you have tried to shield them from it. You didn't break the family unit; he did. BTW his Mother probably has some idea that her son does has a drinking problem. Alcoholism as well also thrives on secrecy, I daresay that not many people know about his drink problem. Someone who chooses to drink too as often as he does has a problem with alcohol and that cannot be ignored.

Your H is not your responsibility ultimately; he has made you think that you should be responsible for him. You're not his enabler and should not act as one. Alcoholism does not only affect the alcoholic but all of those around him and the effects are immense and take their toll over time. For a start everyone treads very carefully around the drinker and tries not to upset them.

His threats are more likely than not to be empty ones; this is just another way of controlling you. These people are very good at manipulation.

Do not sacrifice yourself on the altar of alcoholism; your feelings matter. It has affected you and your children markedly.
Do contact Al-anon as they can help family members of problem drinkers. You need their support as much as anything else.

a little toot, thanks.... just trying to make house nice for when DC's get up, will be on FB in about 15 mins.....((()))

Mits did you sleep?
{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}

He had threatened to do this, but at what point to I contact his sons?, or if I don't hear from him at all, do I call the police given that he has made implications about taking his own life?

We are supposed to be seeing his mum on saturday (we have kept our marital problems from her as we both felt she was better off not knowing given her health and age...).

I hope you managed to get some sleep last night. Just remember he is an adult, his actions are his responsibility not yours. I think you need to decide what YOU want, what's best for you and the children, you might realise that doesn't include him full-time.

Take care and good luck.

thanks, esp blinks. I both sympathise with him, and am frustrated and angry with him.

I don't know if he is an 'alcoholic'. Given the choice he will drink everynight, sometimes just a pint sometimes more, if off work he will have a pint during the day.

I don't have a problem in itself with this, but I do have a problem with the way it affects him and therefore and the children. We have been falling apart for over 2 years and drink has been a recurring issue, does it induce a kind of negativity and paranoia about life? perhaps not on the same scale as drugs but certainly a kind of 'why is life treating me like this?'

It could kill his mum if he just takes off..... i have a mixed relationship with her, but wouldn't see her have her heart broken.

thanks for comments and support, if I don't respond to all posts, I apologise but my head is a mess...

i realise a bit in there made no grammatical sense. hope you get the general message though.

Oh shit, I'm sorry you're going through this lovie...you'll be ok, we're all here, you'll get through it. Sending you strength x

as the child of an alcoholic i can empathise with all of you.

even your husband.

it is of enormous importance that you learn about your role in the cycle of alcoholism. once you realise that by responding and reacting in certain ways to the drinking, the problem will intensify and eventually take over your life. you can support and encourage an alcoholic to get help but ultimately the choice is theirs. you are in no way to blame for this situation and you must remember that when he tries to implicate you in it. addicts will fuck with your head so that you stay and ENABLE their drinking.

please get some support. al-anon is great or you can read loads about alcoholism, enabling and co-dependency online.

take responsibility for yourself and your children. the rest is up to him.

don't continue to expose your son to this though. it leaves lasting scars.

Mits, I agree. Leave him be for tonight. Hes not your responsibility - you have to take care of yourself and the DC.

Try to get some sleep and you can deal with this in the morning.

Mits, am here if you want me. Still up for a bit anyway, but will leave phone on andnext to my ear.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

for you Mitsubishi - that's shit. And he is a bit of a shit too for just walking out like that.

Let it go for now - if you really need to, send him a text message saying that you'd like to talk when he's ready.

If he is into playing controlling mind games, don't keep after him trying to find out if he's ok/coming home/where is he etc., it will all feed into his power trip.

He has behaved rather like a tantrummy toddler tonight - treat his behaviour in that way.

(((hugs))) for you.

then dont be. dont try and call tonight. go to bed, sleep on it, start again with a fresh head and fresh eyes tomorrow.

be strong. if the kids are talking about him drinking then its a problem already.
x

No not at the moment.

He has 2 sons and his mum is 89.....

I have tried to call him but he isn't answering...either too angry with me, stubborn or hurt, the dc's will freak. Didn't take his drink with him....(cans of cider...)

I didn't want it to be like this,

I don't know the background to this but if he is an alcoholic who uses emotional blackmail ('I'll kill myself if you won't put up with my drinking and carry on servicing me') then TBH you are better off without him. Be kind to yourself tonight, try to get some sleep, and in the morning look into your legal position.

I know it's impossible not to worry about what H will do tonight but please take care of yourself. Make sure your DC are settled, make some tea. Is there someone you can call?

Not heard from him, and am angry sad and frightened and worried.

He has implied that he might take his own life if we are not going to be together and I don't know what to do.

Is he an alcoholic?

Sorry you are having such a horrible time.

Well that's crap of him isn't it. To pack a bag and walk. Childish.

I agree that if DS is pointing out his dad's drinking then that's bad.

How you feeling now? Have you heard from him? Try not to blame yourself for what has happened. Take things one minute at a time. Deep breaths. Cup of tea. Have you texted him?

If you feel you don't want to be with him then don't dismiss that feeling. You have some thinking to do. You will survive this.

......thanks...a bit of a mess to respond..DC's settled a little, very tired and sad... sad

Wow - so sorry, but if your DS comments about his drinking, then this is really really bad news. But great that your DS feels safe/confident to make the observation to you rather than being in fear of saying it.

Oh, and you don't need to do anything. Only when you're ready as you call the shots.

Pour yourself a glass of wine and try and do something ordinary to take your mind off things. I know 'sleep on it' is a bit of a cliche, but you might actually feel a bit more able to cope with things in the morning.

Oh dear

Take it small steps at a time, just deal with the day to day rather than being daunted by the bigger picture, and tihngs will sort themselves out and you will get through this.

sounds like you are better off without him.

Oh lovie.

My turn to try and support you when you have been so lovely on the shiney sashaying thread.

What can I do?

Mitsubishi

Im not sure what to say

Head in such a mess. DS was going into one of his meltdowns and I have so so much work to do. I wanted H to try and sort it.

But it doesn't work. And DS said 'don't ask him, he has probably been drinking.'

H was trying but his tone was impatient and unsympathetic and was winding DS up.

I pointed it out, I don't know, things started to escalate very quickly, and in frustration i expressed that DS had said he was frightened when he had been drinking...I didn't know H had already had a drink....

He blew up, packed a bag and walked out.

I am such a mess. Trying to accept that my marriage is over and that the man I married slowly disappeared. It is my wedding anniversary on friday, and part of me never wants to see him again and part of me feels so very sad that it is all such a mess.

I can't fall apart but I want to. I don't want to keep things together any more and keep putting sticking plaster on a wound that doesn't want to heal.

I am not sure what to do.

Oh shit........

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