At my wits end re. fiancé and housework (long, sorry)

[Fedupwithmess]

Name changed for this, as OH knows MN name, but I am a regular. I apologise in advance for the extremely long post, I just really need to get this off my chest.

Been with OH 3.5 years. Wedding booked for this autumn. Both mid thirties. From the word go, we really “got” each other, had buckets of chemistry and loads of shared interests. We make each other laugh have a good social life both together and separately and are never short on conversation. He is sensible with money, emotionally stable, hates conflict has never been mistrustful or controlling. Lucky me, right?

He is also infuriatingly messy and scatter-brained. I am naturally tidy and organised, and I knew full well when he moved into the house I own 2 years ago that realistically there would be some friction, but it’s got to the point where it’s really wearing me down. It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

For example, if I don’t remind him it’s bin day, the bin never gets put out, or I end up doing it myself as I just can’t be bothered to remind him a dozen times before he actually does it.
Last month he painted the garden fence and the tin and brush are still out there in the garden getting rained on every day. I keep asking him to bring it in, but he keeps “forgetting”. Ditto with turning the TV off after he’s finished watching it, making the bed when he’s last out of it, changing the toilet roll when he’s used the last of it, removing hair from the plughole after he’s had a bath…

I do the laundry, but only iron my own clothes. He can’t be bothered to iron his, so I leave it in a pile for him to hang up, but he never does and it’s there for days on end, me constantly reminding him to do it, him saying he will, then forgetting. His boss at work reprimanded him because he was such a scruffy state, but even since then he’s refusing to iron his shirts or polish his shoes – he remains insistent that it’s not a priority. I was so worried about him losing his job at one point, that I started doing this for him, hoping it would guilt trip him into doing it himself, but instead of this or even saying thank you, he just said that I was wasting my time!

The other day I asked him to hang a sweater of mine to dry (ie: on a hanger in the utility room). He simply hung it over the door, so it ended up misshapen, then proceeded to smoke in the room, so it stank! Don’t even get me started on the smoking…at first I said fine as long as it’s in the garden, then it was on the back step, then it was in the kitchen with the door constantly wide open, come rain, shine or artic temperatures. I got very upset about this on Monday and now the smoking has moved outside again (he claims he wants to quit and he hates the habit, but that’s another story) There is an ashtray in the garden, but rather than using it, he just throws the fag ends arbitrarily in the garden. I pulled him up on this yesterday and he made some halfhearted apology, but when I went down there again this morning, he’d done exactly the same thing!

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for because he’s not remotely bothered about his appearance, to the point where he would quite happily walk around with holes in his shoes and trousers. He said he was extremely grateful for the clothes, but still in his eyes they weren’t a priority (He earns good money, it’s not like he can’t afford new clothes) He’s constantly leaving pens in his pockets and I do my best to check them before they go in the washing machine, but not long ago he snuck a pair of trousers in at the last minute and when I took the laundry out at the end EVERYTHING had been covered in permanent marker, including an expensive dress I had only worn once!!

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him, but never to the standard I do it, ie: he never rinses the sink so there is always food stuck in the plughole and he never hoovers properly in the corners. I don’t moan about this, because at least doing something is better than nothing. Beyond that, he never notices other cleaning jobs that need doing, so it’s always me that keeps on top of things, not to mention being the only one who notices when household stuff needs replacing and cupboards need tidying.

Admittedly, he is a fantastic cook and will cook perhaps 1-2 times per week. I cook the rest of the time which I don’t mind, as I enjoy cooking and he works longer hours than I do. I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food, which again I don’t especially mind, because it means that I get to choose what I want!

He is a highly intelligent man (admittedly more in an intellectual way than a pragmatic way) and he has no problem retaining information relating to other facets of his life, it’s as if it’s in one ear and out the other when it comes to domestic tasks because he places no importance on them. It’s not like he’s a mummy’s boy who’s never had to fend for himself either – he comes from a large family with parents who always encouraged him to stand on his own two feet and he had lived away from home for well over 10 years before he moved in with me. The majority of that time he spent in a shared house, living with women who have now become some of my closest friends. They didn’t mollycoddle him either and apparently used to despair at they mess he made and his lack of common sense. They have nothing but praise for him in every other aspect of his nature though – they see him as their loyal, caring and valued friend.

I have tried to talk to him countless times about how his sloth makes me feel and the impact that it’s having on our otherwise fantastic relationship – I have told him that it’s eroding the love I have for him and what’s more, it’s completely unnecessary as if only he helped a bit more I wouldn’t have to spend my time nagging him – I hate nagging as much as he hates being nagged! I said to him that even if having a clean, tidy, ordered home is not a priority to him in the way it is to me, if he respected me, he would make an effort for my sake. He keeps saying he will (and indeed extends a great deal of respect to me in every other facet of our relationship) but the effort is always incredibly short lived. I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts! He claims that he hates being micromanaged and that he just wants to be his own person. He seemed to be under the impression that I actually enjoyed being some sort of bloody site foreman!

I suppose the issue of our domestic compatibility is weighing heavier on my mind than usual because of our imminent wedding. I can’t stress how much in EVERY other respect I couldn’t ask for a more compatible partner an at 36 and wanting kids I certainly wouldn’t want to start all over again, but now I’m starting to imagine a life with him post wedding with children of our own. Surely the strain of our domestic situation will only get worse, given the chaos that small children can cause. I fear this issue might encroach on the other otherwise happy areas of our life to the extent where it damages our relationship irreparably. I know it sounds horribly calculating, but I am the one with all the finances assets in our relationship, so I certainly don’t want to be going through a divorce 5 years down the line.

What is your take on my situation? Am I being overly fussy and petty? How do you cope if you have a DH who doesn’t pull him weight domestically? Would this be a deal breaker for you if the relationship was otherwise great? How the hell do I move forward with this issue?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

My take is that it is a mistake to marry 'Mr 99% Compatible' when you know that the missing 1% is going to drive you to distraction - even if others would term it 'fussy and petty'. Bitter experience tells me you either love someone for what they are, warts and all, and work around their imperfections or you find someone who doesn't drive you up the wall in the first place.

Your main objection seems to be that you don't want to start over. You don't sound at all convinced.

[Wheelerdeeler]

If he has money, get a cleaner in. Make sure she irons.

Re his personal appearance use his money to make sure his clothes are in good condition.

I don't know what to say. If he is perfect in every other way. This is a minor (ish) issue. Could you work together doing chores? Ie if you are right there beside him?

[Annarose2014]

He's a slob. Lets call it what it is. Throwing fag butts in the garden when the ashtray is right there? Ugh.

He's also never going to change.

But is it neccessarily a dealbreaker? I'd say no, as long as you hire a damn good cleaner.

[ItMustBeBedtimeSurely]

You do sound like a tidy person but there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think you sound unreasonable.

You're right when you say it's likely to get worse. Is it a deal breaker? I don't know. Can you live like this forever? I couldn't, but only you can answer that.

If you decide you can't live with it, I suggest you tell him you are postponing the wedding and booking counselling because you can't marry him until this is resolved. It might shake him out of it.

The trouble is, in some ways it would be easy to decide you love him and that your relationship in all other respects makes it worth it. But I cannot stress enough how hard it will be on you if you have children and he doesn't change. It will seriously make you hate him.

[MelonBallersAreStrange]

Yes this would be deal breaker for me.

I will not live in someone else's filth and I refuse to be someone else's domestic slave. Therefore, if someone I lived with refused to maintain our household to an acceptable standard then I would have to stop living with that person. Quite simple really.

Having a baby with him will be a disaster. When the DC were tiny, my DH did a huge amount of the housework. The relationship could not have survived if he didn't do his share then and now. If he didn't even take care of his own stuff, never mind mine and baby's, christ I'd have gone postal.

I tried the trick of stopping doing anything for him and he didn’t even notice, it just drove me nuts!
Umm, you didn't stop for long enough. Like FOREVER.

[bluejelly]

Agree with pp. I think you have to either accept him the way he is (and get a cleaner?) or decide it's a deal-breaker.
It is difficult when people have different standards of cleanliness. But not sure why you're cooking for him 5-6 times a week - no-one has different standards of hunger!

[bigbuttons]

you both have very different views on stuff. I can see that he would see you as being overly controlling. I think you both need to compromise. You need to stop bering such a control freak and he needs to step up a bit.

[Fedupwithmess]

Cogito until recently, I would honestly have said that I loved him warts and all and could never imagine a time when we wouldn't be together. I've never been shy of walking away from relationships before when they aren't working out and starting over is nothing new to me, but if I did, I think I would regret it deeply because of the 99% of things that are so good.

Wheeler I have seriously considered getting a cleaner. I'm not wholly comfortable with the idea of having someone I know in my home though...clearly I am not wholly comfortable with the situation as it stands either. He does earn a fairly good salary, it just doesn't seem like it at the moment because every spare penny is going towards the wedding.

[Annarose2014]

I would add that even with a cleaner he could still make you very unhappy.

A cleaner won't pick up fag butts or paint cans left in the garden. A cleaner can't turn off the TV at night or put the bins out. A cleaner won't do the grocery shopping.

And this would be a LIFELONG problem.

Have you tried actually going nuclear? I know you felt you've nagged, but have you actually had a big proper row? One where you spelt out in no uncertain terms that its affecting your disposition towards him and therefore its a relationship issue?

I presume this is a massive turn off for you, yes? If so, you have to tell him.

He's not going to be much bothered if he thinks this is a tidiness issue. He'll think you'll just get used to his ways and will learn in time he "just wants to be his own person".

[creativevoid]

Listen to Cogito, she is very wise. It doesn't sound like he is bad or you are bad, but that there is a major area of incompatibility here which will make both of you miserable in the end. I married late too, and ignored things I should not have ignored. I am now in the midst of an ugly divorce and watching my ex take half the assets I worked so hard to earn. If you are not sure you don't need to break up, just don't get married. To be honest, my advice to any woman with more financial assets would be not to get married anyway - there's very little in it for you.

[ThatBloodyWoman]

I take it you love him?
How about playing to his strengths and considering a cleaner if you can afford it?
Could he manage ghe household admin and finances if he's super intelligent,and do the garden and cars if he's more diy orientated (thinking about the fence painting here...)
He could shop,with a list.
Creative thinking -he sounds like he's got a hell of a lot good about him,so it'd be good to find a solution to his basic lack of responsibility.

But I'd do it soon.
Like before you get married

[lotsofcheese]

I think the resentment will just build. Can you really live the rest of your life like that? It will kill your love for him.

More worrying is the fact that you've asked him to do more & he's done nothing.

Is he prepared to pay a cleaner & for ironing/launderette?

[MelonBallersAreStrange]

He can't care about you that much if he ignores what you've said about the importance to you of basic standards of housework, overflowing bins, fag ends etc.

He doesn't even make an effort with his appearance for you. That's not nice. Who wants to be seen with a bloke with holes in his trousers and shoes, smoking a faaaag in the kitchen door and chucking the butts on the garden.

And this from a man who hasn't even sealed the deal yet. What will he be like when you are married. Ugh.

How does he make up for the mistakes? Did he apologise on bended knee for the ruined dress? Did he replace all the ruined clothes? Does he clear up all the fag ends? What about clearing up after you have cooked 5-6 times a week (why do you do that?)

[LineRunner]

You've got a 'Mr Nice Guy' who specialises in driving you nuts. That's not a good thing.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

You may regret the good 99% if you walk away but the 1% you opt for will be the main plank of the case for the defence when they find him one day, head battered in with a Dyson attachment.....

Seriously.... you could be looking at 40 years of this.

[Annarose2014]

To be honest, I'd have stopped doing his laundry as soon as he ruined my dress.

But then I've been married 8 years and still don't do my husbands laundry so I don't understand why anyone would voluntarily take that on. They can do it themselves you know!

[treaclesoda]

Have you told him that this is a big enough issue for you to consider ending the relationship? (Because I take it ending the relationship is a serious possibility here).

[LineRunner]

I reckon you'll probably last about 5 years, having gone nuclear so many times that you end up feeling like the bad guy, and then have to give him half your money and assets.

[PurpleWithRed]

I also live with someone with very different housekeeping standards (Mine are lower). We've both had to compromise - i do more than I would otherwise because I know how unhappy it makes him if he thinks the place is too messy, and we've agreed some divisions of labour that play to our strrngths eg I do all food prep and cooking, he clears up.

The big thing is is: If your dh to be won't compromise and meet you half way then he's not playing fair. I'd postpone that wedding.

[MelonBallersAreStrange]

It’s like I have to micromanage everything, or it never gets done.

Every new item of clothing he has had since we have been together I have bought and paid for

I do the laundry

He’ll wash up and hoover if I ask him,

I am also responsible for all meal planning and buying of food

What is your take on my situation?

You are his mum. Sexy.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think the crunch point here is that you've left it a little late, you think this man represents your only chance to be a mother & so you're sticking with it in the absence of any better candidate and you're deluding yourself that it will somehow all work out OK in the end.

I think you have to get over your reluctance to hire a cleaner because, as you seem very keen to go ahead, this is going to be a Management and Containment exercise. Once he's provided you with your offspring build this super-intelligent guy a shed in the garden, maybe, and keep him out of the main house? Treat him like others treat messy exotic pets like pot-bellied pigs.... :)

[99redbaboons]

Oh God. Are you me? I am, however, now married and it did get worse... It became a massive bone of contention.

We got a cleaner which helped a lot. I stopped buying his clothes (I bought them at birthdays etc but no more) and he sees it as an a achievement to have had a top for 5 years(?). I don't get it at all.

It took a lot of self control to stop doing everything... As for fag butts! He used to flick them under our hedge and then clear them out when it was a big pile. I cut the hedge right back so he can't do that anymore.

Resentment can build up as our standards are totally different - he does that thing with the sink too!! - and therefore he completely underestimated just how much work I did to keep the house clean (we have 3 kids) so yes definitely get that cleaner!!

I would let him do all the cooking too. My dh once said to mutual friends that he does 99% of the cooking. So I worked out that I only need to cook 3 times a year.

[bimandbam]

Has he ever lived by himself? My dp hasn't really and is similar to your df in some things.

We had Ds last year and I must admit that I was borderline going to end the relationship as I just couldn't cope with the housework and the endless feeding and a newborn made of velcro.

But I love my dp and his wage enables me to be a Sahm. I don't nag him anymore to do housework as he doesn't do it like I do. And I would be an arsehole if I stood over him dictating exactly how the bathroom is cleaned. He just genuinely doesn't know how to do it.

So now we both have clearly defined roles. He works. I do the house. Slightly different to your situation as we have dcs but it works for us. In every other way he is perfect.

When I worked we had a cleaner.

I love him. He isn't 100% but neither am I.

Make some stuff non negotiateable. Fag ends etc. The rest let it go.

[DelphiniumBlue]

He sounds very much like my DH, who is also lovely, kind etc but a domestic nightmare.

We have been married a long time, and these days ( DC teens/adults) I can live with it, but when the children were little, it was a major bone of contention, because I felt so dumped on.

So: get a cleaner, if you can afford to ( although once you have children, you might not be able to afford this luxury).

Leave his ironing somewhere where it doesn't offend you ( so not in pile on the floor, but in a large bag/box.

Think about what he will willingly do, and get him to do more of it - eg DIY/gardening - as a sort of quid pro quo. Maybe he could cook more, as he enjoys this and is good at it. He could certainly help meal plan.

Get him to come onto MN.
My DH came on, ( of his own volition, wanted to see what it was all about,) and tried to join in a thread about a useless DH, explaining from a man's POV how he just didn't see what needed doing. He was very quickly put right by several very helpful women ( my thanks go particularly to Suzanne) and made to see that his self-indulgent wafting around reflected badly on him, and affected my workload considerably. He is much better now! I wish he had done this years ago, but it took other people calling him out to make him change his ways.

You are quite right to feel worried that it will impact on you more once you have a family, this needs to be addressed now. And for heaven's sake, do not let him be the SAHD: if you are out working leaving him at home and then coming back to a total muddle, you will be really resentful.

Only you can decide whether he is lovely enough in all other ways for this not to be a deal-breaker.

[Mylifepart2]

You sound very exasperated and frustrated. If you have asked him time and time again - why is he not making a bit of effort just for you....could it deliberate - ie studied incompetence so that you will just take it off him to do it for him?

Take a look at this thread;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2275725-Anyone-else-end-up-as-an-angry-banshee-after-living-with-Mr-Nice-passive-irresponsible