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Have only registered to post this topic after chatting to a friend who is on mn and will probably be reading this, though she won't tell me her 'name'.
Anyway, I was telling my friend how earlier this week I woke in the middle of the night with my husband's fingers all over me, and inside me. Should stress that I'm very happy with him and was very happy for us both to enjoy a sleepy fondle and then, well, go back to sleep! Only the second time this has happened in ten years but it's been fun both times.
Anyway, mentioned this to my friend as thought it was quite funny and was surprised at her response. She felt strongly that I'd been abused (despite being good friends with my husband) on the basis I hadn't consented. We chatted/argued (in a good natured way) for a while and in the end agreed that I'd post this message to see what others thought.
Did you give your permission at any point that it was ok for him to do that while you were asleep?
Why does he want to do it while you are asleep?
If your ok with it then I dont see its anyone elses business.
I think what your friend is getting at is that some people wait until their partner is asleep to use them for their own sexual gratification and dont care if their partner object's, they would just carry on.
Would your partner stop if you told him to? Are you happy with this?
If the answer to both is yes I don't think you have a problem.
I don't see anything wrong with it as long as they stop if you wake up and tell them you're not in the mood. I often grope DH when we're falling asleep, vice versa, I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where my husband felt like he always had to ask permission to touch me fgs.
If you were happy enough, then there's not a problem, is there? If you weren't, then there's an issue, especially if he didn't back off when you woke.
Yes, as YoureBeingASillyBilly asked. Is this something you gave discussed before and you have said is 'ok'? If not, I would say its a very odd thing for a person to do.
If you weren't 'in the mood' how would you have felt about waking up to him doing this?
I have to say, I almost didn't bother posting as I know this is a topic that some people enjoy getting hysterical over...
I think your friend must have some trust issues. If this happened with my husband, I would not have a moment of a thought of abuse of any kind. Sex in a happy, trusting marriage is not about consent (if it is enjoyed by both people which it sounds like it was!). It sounds like your friend has her own issues which are making her see your experience in a very different way.
ABUSED, by who, your husband??? He knows you enjoy it, you didn't say no, why in heavens name would that be classed as abuse??? Some people can be so overly dramatic!?!?!?!
One of my exes used to do that. It used to really make me angry. I would wake up to him on top of me pumping away. I kept asking him why he did it, and he said he didn't realise he was doing it and couldn't help it. Fucking twat. So even though I asked him to stop doing it before we went to sleep, he carried on. Its not being hysterical, I like to be asked, or at least give some indication thats what I want. Which isn't possible when you are fast asleep.
Sorry - I should stress that I'm not posting this because I'm worried about my husband. I have no doubt he would stop if I asked him to. In truth, I'm not even sure if he was fully awake! Was just surprised at my friends response as I thought it was a nice thing. Realise some people may have had similar incidents that were much less pleasant. Sorry. Using the thread as some kind of resolution to the earlier conversation with my friend...
I like sleep sex. I've had a couple of relationships where it's been common. I think I've always woken up before penetration though, but my partner and I will often have sex if one of us wakes up in the middle of the night.
I have been woken by mrs neiljames77 fiddling with me many times. (years ago)
I've been known to wake ŵith DH touching me and likewise I've been knowing to wake DH when I have still been asleep by fondling him - we have no problems with it but I know if I sleepily pushed him away or said no he would stop (god knows about me when I'm asleep, I used to sleepwalk etc so. Suppose it's not that surprising). I think the key is are you both happy ŵith it, is it something you find mutually enjoyable and no one is feeling coerced or like they need to do it to keep the other happy. I have read a few posts on here where I have felt yes people we're being abused when they were sleeping - where they had discussed and said prior to the event that they were not happy with it or where they asked their partner to stop and they didn't. But yours doesn't sound anything like that, and nothing in your post flags up concerns for me?
In the early days of our relationship (not so much nowadays as I'm nearly nine months' pregnant) DP and I would often wake up in the middle of the night and find ourselves all over each other. Sometimes he would be the instigator, sometimes I would be. Often neither of us was sure who started it.
But the point was that we were both perfectly happy with it. And if I'd ever told him I didn't like it or wanted him to stop, I know 100% that he would have (and vice versa).
If you're happy with it then I don't see a problem.
My XP used to do this even more so when I was pregnant. I hated it and told him I didn't like it numerous times but he still carried on
I'd wake up uncomfortable and with aches in my stomach because he was on top of me and putting his weight on me at 7-9 months pg, it was awful! We ended up splitting up because of it.
It's profoundly depressing to see posts that say consent is no longer an issue when people are 'in a relationship'.
Consent is always relevant in a sexual relationship.
Three thoughts spring to mind.
It sounds like you discussed this with your friend, but not your husband. Couples tend to negotiate this issue by discussing it and agreeing boundaries. So some people are happy to be touched while asleep and roused to wakefulness, at which point they can make a conscious decision about whether to carry on or not. Others hate being woken once asleep and would resent it. In both instances though, it's imperative that either party has the right (and sufficient consciousness) to say 'no thanks' and to have those wishes respected.
You say this has happened twice in 10 years. Is there some sort of link between the two occasions?
Finally, does your husband watch porn?
Because there's a lot of mainstream porn out there that shows non-consensual sex in all its stages and having seen what feels like a thousand threads from women over the years who've been raped and sexually assaulted in their sleep or when unconscious through drink or sedation pills, it seems to always turn out that their partners were prolific porn hounds.
Leavenheath- No, we've never actually discussed this issue, but we talk alot, including about our sex life, and so if there was an issue we'd address it. I think that the nature of our relationship is such that he would never consider forcing himself on me and I would never acquiese to anything I was uncomfortable with. And those principles work vice versa as well.
Does he watch porn? Don't think so. Unless he does at work, which would be tricky for various reasons!
Link between the two occasions? Not that I can think of.
The points you make though, are totally valid. Consent is essential. I suppose that we've given each other consent through our relationship rather than a direct conversation. My work also means I see the effect of pork on relationships, especially among under 25s, and I agree that it can be a horrible thing, especially for young minds.
I know this is a serious thread but "My work also means I see the effect of pork on relationships" Ha!
I'll delete pork from my Christmas day menu then, especially as I've got a few under 25s at the table
Why not discuss this with him then? If you were totally fine with this, I don't think you'd have mentioned it to your friend and then started a thread about it. It feels like you're litmus testing something you're not quite sure about in your own mind, so it would be a good thing to discuss it with your husband and maybe also find out what he thinks about it too.
'I know this is a topic that some people enjoy getting hysterical over...'
I do not think this is the case. Often women have come on here to say their husband or partner has sex with them in their sleep and they don't like it and do not consent to it. Sex without consent is rape. No hysteria, that's a simple fact.
'Sex in a happy, trusting marriage is not about consent'
See above. Rape in marriage was only criminalised in 1991. No consent equals rape.
These threads aways make me laugh. Who 'gives their permisson' verbally before sex, every time? Seriously, who has that discussion? God, what a passion killer. Is seduction no longer allowed to exist? I bet some of you have a written form you both have to sign on the bedside table.
People often wake up in the night feeling inexplicably horny, or they have a sexy dream and naturally reach out for their partner in the bed with them as a subconscious thing, and it can turn into lovely sex. If you don;t want it to you are perfectly capable of saying so. A LTR where one partner is frightened to (or 'not allowed' ) to physically touch and arouse the other without express prior permission sounds like the most miserable, uptight and abnormal relationship in the world.
There IS a difference between rape, sexual assault, and a sleepy fondle (especially in a LTR) that evolves into full sex. All sex usually starts with a passionate snog and/or a fondle - there is not always a clear 'spoken out loud' agreement beforehand, usually more of a tacit one. It's served most of us well enough for the whole of our sexually active lives without ever being an issue. If we are not in the mood we are capable of saying so. If our partner refuses to listen then there is an issue.
You KNOW when you've been raped or sexually assaulted. If it felt like it at the time then it was. If it didn't feel like it at the time then it probably wasn't. You don't need someone else to tell you that sleepy sex with your DP was tantamount to rape if you enjoyed it and it didn't feel like rape.
The important thing is, as you say, if you don't want it you are capable of saying so. Often in cases on here, women have said they don't want it, don't like it, and the guy continues or says he can't help it. Big difference between that and sleepy sex.
Right on YoDiggity! Agree with you wholeheartedly on your post.
Mmmmm sleepy sex...I'm always up for that...in the middle of the night is about the only chance we get
People here will tell you you have been abused too, but really, if he knows you are happy with this type of thing, then that is all that matters, really.
I like to be woken for sex, but have boundaries as to how dh does this. A colleague lets her dh have full sex with her while she is asleep, as long as he doesn't wake her. I wouldn't like that, but that is up to them, just as this is up to you!
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