Pressured to be sterilised vs no intimacy? Expectation or neglect?

[AnotherLostDad]

First I must apologise for the long post but as I am trying to get some help, I prefer to give the full background... So here you go...

The issue:
After our 3rd child (twin second time round) my wife told me to get sterilised if I wanted to have sex... That the procedure was simple and that all of her husband friend had it done... Each time another of her husband's friend went through it. I was reminded that they had it done and that I should speak to them as really, this is not a big deal...


The background:

• 3 kids by IVF as she has blocked tubes
  
• My Mrs is early / mid 40
  
• I am late 30..
  
• We have been together for 16 years.
  
• 9 years before our 1st child.
  

My thinking:

• That the probability is low already to have children due to the treatment required to have them....
  
• Due to her age -no offence to anybody- the pre-memopause / menopause might just be round the corner... (I just have to be patient... :))
  
• Probability to be pregnant past 40 is getting lower on any case...
  
• 6 months Clomid  treatment which failed might have depleted her egg stock quite a bit...
  

Surely the probability for her to be pregnant compounded with the low sex frequency (once every 3 years), does not require me to have a vasectomy?? Or am I still unreasonable?

My proposal to her:

• lets go through a pack of 6 not 12, 6 condoms and when this is done I will go through the surgery...
  

Her answer:

• She does not like condoms and does not want them... Therefore I should get the snip and this is what everybody do...
  

When she mentioned again to me that I should get sterilised I told her again about the condoms and that maybe we should have sex a bit for a while (6 times) then once the box is gone, I go for the snip...  

She then broke into tears asking me how could I and how dare I saying that the lack of intimacy was due to her and that if I loved her I should know how much heartache it would take her to terminate an unwelcome pregnancy considering all what it took to get our children at the first place... She then left the room, went to the bedroom to cry for the rest of the evening...

So where are we on this?
3 years so far with no sex... Well not really, she gave me a hand job 18 months ago and 4 months ago we nearly had a full blown sex only to be pushed away mid course and was asked to finish myself...  No full sex since 2009...

Where does that leave me?

• Believing that I am the a##e h##e that I am told I am... For thinking ill things of her...
  
• I have no friend or family near by to talk to... Well I cannot even phone to them as I always end up paying some silence treatment / cold shoulder if I do... So I don't bother calling them anymore and now they won't call me since I am far away ie 1000 of miles...
  
• Each time I try to go out with colleagues, which usually happen once or twice a year it is gone with her... However when I am back I  am selfish and usually the following day, if I had a few drinks the night before, I cannot have a lie in and need to continue to look after the kids full on as I always do at weekends...
  

I look well after my children they are everything to me... All my money goes to the house, my kids and my wife (who doesn't work)...

Home fell like walking on constant egg shell, I never seem to do anything right or it is not good enough... 

But despite all this, I have family values and therefore stick with it... For better or for worst was the sentence...

 I would like intimacy with my wife not only sex but a cuddle would be nice, the lack of it is killing me and maybe if I go through the Op everything will be better? Lately I was also told that I was fat and should take pride in my appearance as without it there is no chance for sex... I am 5'8 and 12 stones 9...

Well this is the crunch, my left brain is telling me STOP don't do it, all this is not right. She would have fully controlled my body by 'forcing' me to do something, which I might regret... 

Furthermore would I regain intimacy with her once I am sterilised? She surely will always find another excuse for not having sex as something might not be right again with her...

 I am facing large medical bill and I had to remortgage to pay for them... 

We are consultant hopping at the moment... None of them are good enough to find what she has, the reason for her breathing problems... For her back pain... For her ankle swelling... Etc etc etc...

What do you think? Have I really lost the plot and am I such the twisted and bitter bast#rd that I am led to believe I am? Or should I go through the op and be a man, like all of her husband friend, who seem so perfect, to regain intimacy with my wife?

[SminkoPinko]

If I were you I wouldn't get the snip but I would ask her to go to couples counselling with you. Your relationship sounds like it's in a tough place. How old is your youngest?

[Salbertina]

Realky sorry Op. sounds like outside help cd be good idea, Relate?? Sounds as if you're in standoff with each other.
Imho your suggestion of using 6 condoms first is reasonable as is hers that you have vasectomy...

[Fairylea]

What are your reasons for not wanting it done?

Do you think the marriage is dead and subconsciously perhaps want more children perhaps with another partner?

Do you think your wife might think this?maybe she sees your refusal as a sign that you want to leave her..

Just thinking out loud.

I dont get the logic behind the using six condoms and then doing it.. were you hoping she'd be ok with the condoms ??

[AnotherLostDad]

Thanks twins are 30 months... Eldest 7...

[Viviennemary]

If you don't want the snip then don't have it. I think your wife is being unreasonable. I agree with couples counselling.

[AnotherLostDad]

Well the logic for the condom is to understand if she wants to have sex at the first place... 6 not being a big target for anybody... Shurey possible within a year..

If I am getting the surgery done and then we don't have sex or be intimate, I would not have seen the point at the first place... I just think that maybe it is another emotional abuse technique and once I have done the surgery, then she would happily leave me... Knowing that I could not give children to anybody else...
But maybe I an twisted... Or simply lost... :(

[Salbertina]

I dont think you're twisted or, from what you've said, given the circs, that shes emotionally abusive... Probably lost though, as you say. Counseling cd really help

[AnotherLostDad]

"What are your reasons for not wanting it done?

Do you think the marriage is dead and subconsciously perhaps want more children perhaps with another partner? "

It is more the fact that we went at great length and IVF cost to have our familly... Considering her age and reason for it, then I don't understand why she is asking at the first place... We don't have sex... Likelihood for her to be pregnant is as good as me winning the lottery... So I don't get her motivation to ask...

[Only4theOlympics]

If you didn't want the snip at all I would be all support for you. No one should have an operation for someone else if they don't want it. But the 6 condoms thing is a bit odd.

Surely if she wanted to screw you over that much she would do it 6 times get you to have the snip then leave?

I don't think she is trying to screw you over. I would suggest your better ultimatum would be go to therapy then you will do it? If you have nothing against having it done that is......

[AnotherLostDad]

Will see about counselling thanks for the advice!

[wafflingworrier]

I am so sorry things have got this bad.
You should feel proud of yourself for supporting your family financially and being there for+helping with childcare when you can. This is a real achievement.
I think you need to talk to your family on the phone if at all possible just to have someone to talk to other than your spouse-this is not selfish, we all need friends and family too. You do not need to talk about whether or not you should get sterilised, but you do need to feel you have somewhere to turn for emotional support.
In terms of the vasectomy, thank you for being so honest. I think you and your wife should try to get some counselling from Relate, so that you can try and find a way of communicating properly again. Otherwise I think there will always be issues standing in the way of intimacy.
You are not a bad person for wanting a fulfilling sex life.

[SminkoPinko]

30 month old twins is a surefire recipe for no sex and relationship nightmares, I'm afraid! I know- I have twins and another kid. Research shows that under 5s put a major strain on relationships. My personal view is that many men just cannot cope with the major shift in attention from them to the babies and become super-needy. Women tend to find this very unattractive since they already have plenty of (more appropriate and cute) neediness coming from their little children and neediness is NOT sexy.

Your sex life may well recover as the kids get older if you give it time. Did it after your eldest child? Are you managing to go out together at all?

[halloweeneyqueeney]

She really isn't being at all kind to you

TECHNICALLY I agree with her, I am terrified of conceiving a third, it would mean a termination, I don't trust condoms, I do want sex with my husband once we've had no2 but I know the fear will mean I cant

but I would never treat DH like your OH is treating you, when fear of conceiving was an issue in our sex life in the past I made sure to reassure him that I DID fancy him, but sex was horrible for me when it was so "risky". Even a small chance is too much for me to be able to do it! which is why condoms don't help

The effects of hormonal contraceptives on me are scary BTW so there'd be no sex on them anyway, and I don't trust the coil either, lots of people get pregnant with it in!

[SminkoPinko]

Sorry- my last post came across as a bit brusque I think. I'm not unsympathetic, honest. And not suggesting that it's all your fault- just that it's not unusual for men to feel a bit dethroned when their are young kids in the house sometimes. I definitely don't think she should be asking you to get the snip in these circs; sounds very controlling. I think counselling + wait and see if sex gets better as kids get older is the way forward.

[TheLightPassenger]

I don't think anyone, male or female, should be forced into sterilisation. I wonder if your wife is exhausted by the demands of twins, and this is why she is showing so little interest in sex. Agree about looking to couples counselling, as it's likely to be about a lot more than sex.

[SminkoPinko]

omg- there not their. what is wrong with me

[thewhistler]

Sounds to me as if she is completely exhausted and could she be suffering from pnd? How was the birth? How is coping with twins? It's quite an age gap, she is older, and it's a double whammy.

Esp if it was difficult she might well not want sex. Or if she has pnd. Either way she wouldn't want to go through it again, quite likely.

I'd give her breakfast in bed and get the twins up one morning for her and tell her how much you love her and are concerned about her. She may well burst into tears all over you. And put an arm round her and keep it at that.

If she does the delayed volcano , the one that goes " and another thing, you never..", then yes couples counselling sounds like a good idea. But going to the gp might be a good idea for depression too.

Is there anyone who could take the childcare burden off from time to time?

I dont think you are being unreasonable, tho some people hate condoms, but I think there is a lot more going on.

[halloweeneyqueeney]

also, TMI with condoms I can reach orgasm, but there's no afterglow, I feel a bit down afterwards. I don't really understand it. With condom free sex I feel relaxed and close to my partner afterwards but for some reason I feel a bit empty or used after condom sex.. so would rather just not do it at all than do it with condoms

[discrete]

In your position I would definitely not have the snip.

I do know someone who had it at the demand of his wife, who claimed that it was the fear of getting pregnant that was stopping her wanting sex.

Well she left him anyway, and he then met a younger woman and was unable to conceive with her, despite undergoing a vasectomy reversal operation.

If you said that everything in your relationship was fantastic and the only thing was that your wife was very anxious about getting pregnant, then you would be reasonable to consider it. But that is not the case.

There is also now a non-surgical sterilisation option for women which is no worse than having the snip, so if she was that adamant she could be sterilised herself.

[Merinda]

I was also thinking about pnd, exhaustion and self-esteem issues which lead to a low sex drive and general fear of intimacy (esp after twin birth and with 3 kids to take care of). Councelling should be the first port of call.

I am not sure why she is pushing for a vasectomy, does not seem logical, and I would certanly not do it if I were you. Possibly she is so traumatised by the pregnancy/birth experience that equates sex with that now? Or there are some other reasons, but you need to unpick them together first before resorting to surgical procedures

[AnotherLostDad]

Thanks SimkoPinko...

"My personal view is that many men just cannot cope with the major shift in attention from them to the babies and become super-needy. "

• Attention has never been on me to start with, I am not expecting cooked meal when I come late from work or breakfast made when I finish with the twins in the morning, cup of tea, ironing done etc... Lol that is for me to take care of it myself as this will definelty not be done for me as it has never been :) and this is fine by me. She has enough to cope every day to ask for such things... Mind you a cup of tea would be nice...
  

• Thanks for the tip, glad to know that after 5 years it might get better :)... 2 to go then !! She will be well mid 40 by then so the V might not even be required... A bliss... :) I shall be patient, 2 more year with no sex... But will try the counselling... Thanks

[AThingInYourLife]

I understand the six condoms thing - why is she asking a man she won't have sex with to have a vasectomy?

It's entirely reasonable to suggest restarting the sex life before committing to undergo an operation.

As things currently stand the op is entirely unnecessary.

I would not be amused if someone who hadn't had sex with me for 3 years wanted me to render myself infertile for life.

[stella1w]

If she has blocked tubes and you conceived via ivf, snip seems not needed to me. Counselling seems crucial.

[AnotherLostDad]

But can I just say... She is already sterile... Blocked tubes...

Well birth was as close as nightmarish as you can get, pregnancy bed rest, twins 2 months early, special care etc etc... She did well to bring the baby with only 2 months and of good weight, so they are fine now... Credit to her which I keep on repeating and comforting...

She is seen by way too many doctors but we are jumping from GP to GP, consultant from consultant as they are not good enough to find what she has... Which now start to really make me wonder what is going on...

I am patient, kind, calm and a very understanding person, but I will be the one locked up, with the mouth foaming if it carry on...

Any recommendation on counselling? How does it work? Googling as we speak ;)

[AnotherLostDad]

Thanks Stella this is my point to her!! The V job is not needed, but somehow this message does not get through hence me looking as to why but also giving her options which by the look of it is reasonable ...

Thanks... I might not have lost the marbles just yet... Need to see someone though...