As has come up on a number of threads, many of us seem to have suffered from birth trauma.

It's all well and good knowing facts and figures, which of course, can ease our fears slightly, but with every birth having a chance of going severely wrong, adding that to birth trauma issues is going to convince us that we could be in whatever small percentage of people do suffer from our fears.

This thread is to help us come to terms with what happened during our previous births that left us with these emotional scars and to support each other through the journeys that we will go through in both our minds and possible future/current pregnancies.

There have been previous threads on which people have oupoured their experiences but acknowledgement and discussion is more than each of us telling our own experiences, so I ask that not only do we tell our own stories but we acknowledge other's and help them to discuss their past too.

Giving birth should be a calm, and beautiful thing, not one full of fear and panic.

what a great idea vs!

<shuffles in and gives VS a nudge and a mumbled 'Sorry for earlier' and sits down>
Not quite sure what I am doing here as my youngest is 4 but felt I should come seeing as I just had a go at VS about my own birth trauma on another thread where I had no place to be on account of my youngest child being 4 ....
Ho hum ...
Not going to start with my story but happy to lend huge amounts of support to others at this point. Birth Trauma is terrible and can affect you for years, even with loads of support etc
{{{{to all}}}

Ghosty, DD is 7. She will be eight in November.
Her birth is still with me now, it didn't help being forced to have a CS without any help dealing with the original trauma with DS1, almost 4 years ago but time makes no difference.
If anything it makes it greater the longer we carry it with us.

I do think I experienced birth trauma - 3 years ago when I had ds.

I have totally blanked my experience of birth out of my mind as it was so horrible.

I had loads of issues with my mother that surfaced after birth as well, though weirdly I didn't get pnd and felt full of love towards ds (who I still worship). I also have a good relationship with dh, which seems to get better as the years go by.

Now pg again after a bit of a struggle and thinking about a planned c-section to avoid horrors of birth.

I'm much more scared of birth this time round as my experiences were so negative.

I've found hypnotherapy very useful in dealing with my many anxieties and use relaxation techniques in difficult situations - I put myself into a trance when I had to have a CVS last week.

Could this be something that would help?

I don't want to go into my story yet but I do want to join this thread. I'm really going to have to do something before I consider another child, but I don't know where to start. My labour wasn't even that bad, I just hated it and dread doing it again.

hi all! not sure my birth experience was half as bad as some, it was relatively straightforward tho very painful as i was induced. I did feel very alone during the process and trapped, had to stay on bed due to being on a monitor, couldn't understand (and still don't understand) why i had to fight and fight for pain relief. Having said that duriing the labour everyone around was pretty supportive.

But..... i think the totally crap aftercare when i went to the post-natal ward threw me into more of a trauma than anything. Basically there wasnt any aftercare - apart from some forced attempts to get my dd to breastfeed by jamming her head on my boob, which resulted in her screaming every time she saw them, and so she never latched on. Everyone on the ward was treated like 13 year olds at some kind of institution for wayward girls. It was like we were all being punished for something! I was desperate to get out asap but didnt know if i could self-discharge with a minor in tow. Anyway i did get out after 24hrs after much nagging but it left me feeling so angry. I got very down for some months afterwards and felt like a fraud as i didnt bond with my dd for a while.

I know my experience isnt a one off, why do they treat women like this? Is it because we are seen as copers and will put up and shut up? Or because childbirth is 'natural' and so the pain doesnt count? I wish i knew. Somethings gotta change hasnt it?

Sorry if this is a bit ranty!

I don't mind going...

My ds should have been born in under 5 hours - I was almost 9cm after just 4 hours and the mw expected him to arrive within the hour. Unfortunately the shift changed, and the new meddling mw found it necessary to do ARM to 'speed things up' . She proceeded despite my screaming not to. He went OP during this proceedure, which the staff were amazed at considering his head was almost 38cm (above 97%). Labour stalled, and it took 12 hours of hell for the last cm dialation, during which time I had an epidural. Thankfully, my wonderful ds turned back around for delivery, and arrived naturally - with his arm up next to his head, superman style (I had a PPH). It was almost 5 years ago now, and my blood still boils with hate over what that mw took from my ds . He has issues with sensitivity and anxiety and I can't help but wonder whether at least some of it is down to his birth.

Thankfully I read 'Childbirth Without Fear' before dd was born. I knew I was going to be on my own, as dh would be looking after ds. She arrived around 1.5 hours from the first contraction in a completely painless labour (still intense, mind!). Luckily I had to sense to get into the hospital after I puked everywhere (managed 3rd stage due to previous PPH), despite the mw telling me to hang around at home for a while - her cord was around her neck, and I hardly even had to push (lost only 100ml blood). Even when I arrived at the hospital they failed to realise I was beyond transition. Luckily I felt equipt and strong after reading the book, I just laughed at them and continued grunting away, one butt cheek on the bed.

I have kept 'Childbirth Without Fear' for my dd one day should she need it, and would recommend it to anyone - first time around, or needing to get past a traumatic first experience.

damduffs, . I was going to leave that bit out - I also escaped from hosp with dd after some shocking (racist/statist I suppose) treatment I got trying to get bf going with dd. Shocking, and I won't go into it here, just that I couldn't believe a person could be so hateful to a tiny baby . She was born in the UK.

The post-natal support I got with ds in comparison is astounding - incredible encouragement and support. He was born in Australia. I think the mw's there have proper training in bf though... not sure.

I'd like to join, although my DS was born 3 years ago in November, I still feel like I've not fully understood what happened to me.

I was induced at 36+6 as a result of pre-eclampsia. Mostly the labour was okay, from what I can remember. Got distressed by the amount of people jabbing canulas in my hands (inefficiently) as I needed antibiotics for GBS. Had to wait for epidural as the anaesthetist was busy (I'm fairly okay with this, hospitals are busy). The epidural didn't bring my blood pressure down so on beginning to push my midwife quickly realised my BP was going through the roof and I was at risk of major complications like stroke etc... Room suddenly full of people gearing up for an assisted delivery, DS born after about 11hrs since waters were broken. Shortly afterwards I collapsed and haemorrhaged. Came round to a room full of people, could see my mum crying in the corner, DP looking gobsmacked, midwife asking me if I was breathing (WTF? if you don't know, how can I be?!) A doctor pushing saline through my arm and my consultant hurriedly stitching my episiotomy as blood is gushing out into some sort of container. I kept thinking 'I want to see my baby before I die' - as I was convinced that was what was happening.

Eventually everything calmed down and I started to feel better. Later when they took me out of bed to wash me and change the bedding, just sitting in a chair made me black out again, again came round to flashing red lights and a room full of people.

Sorry to go on, but it didn't end there. I'll not bore you with the post natal stuff now. I've never wrote it all down like that before and it's actually upset me all over again. It obviously just doesn't go away. People go through so much worse than me, but it just shouldn't be this way for any of us.

I'm concerned that future pregnancy may be marred by terror of going through birth again.

(Well done if you read all of this, thank you for starting the thread VS)

I'm joining but don't know quite what to say. Two great births then a horrendous ones left me a bit crappy. DD is 2 now and I still cry about it.

MsLucy, it could well be, yes, we all find different coping methods. For you it may be hypnosis.

For me, this time round, It was all about control. I may as well start with my story, it may help others to both open up and to be able to identify how their trauma will/may manifest itself.

You will see in my story, bumper, that I don't believe a birth being 'bad' is really much to do with how much trauma you suffer.

When I was 19, I fell unexpectedly pregnant with DD. I was in a very unstable relationship, If I hadn't found out I was pg, I doubt it would have lasted 6 months.

At 23 weeks, I went into hospital with pains, was told if I went into labour it would be classed as a miscarriage rather than prem birth so was pretty scared, but got sent hoe after they couldn't find anything wrong.

At 32 weeks I went back in, in pain, not even that much pain, I could've probably dealt with the pain much easier if I hadn't had a huge row with my then bf and glassed him two days before (long story!) but I completely overreacted and wallowed, my mother took me to hospital.

I was in hospital for a week, on all sorts of drugs, by now nothing was taking the pain away, but they couldn't find anything wrong, no bleeds, scans seemed fine etc.

The cons decided it was probably a cyst or an ulcer and took me down to surgery for an exploratory op on my ovaries and bowels.

When I came round I was in agony and was told I had a very poorly baby in SCBU, my placenta had abrupted and I had lost 7 pints of blood internally.

I didn't get to see DD for two days as I was too poorly to go to SCBU and she was too poorly to come to HDU.

I didn't expect her to survive, especially as she stopped breathing three times, and closed myself off to her, I didn't want to love her incase she was taken away, but she wasn't.

I had severe PND, during which time I attempted suicide and suffered kidney failure because of the OD, but got better and just got on with things.

4 years later I got pg with DS1 and because I hadn't dealt with how rough a time I had with DD it all came back to me, the loss of control and I was really nervous (NOTE: IMO, My birth trauma is NOT because of DD's birth, but because of how my second birth was later handled, I do not believe the severity of the birth makes any difference to the trauma).

I told my cons I wanted a VBAC, he flat out refused, using the 'reasons' that I would probably have placental abruption again if I tried labour (no evidence of this exists) or that I would rupture my scar, mainly because ds1 was going to be a 'big' baby.

I cried, I begged, I pleaded, he would not allow me to have a VBAC. (I didn't know back then just how wrong he was being). The section was booked for the 29th dec. Xmas day I spent drinking a bottle of whisky to try and induce labour so I wouldn't have to have the section.

When I went down to surgery I was crying, I was telling the doctors/nurses/midwives/anyone that would listen that I didn't want this. They still operated. They took my baby away from me in the middle of the operation with no need to. I was terrified he was going to die.
This was a routine uncomplicated elective caesarian.

Three years later, I'm pg again, with DS2 and I find MN (and Lulu and the other lovely ladies on the VBAC thread) and am able to get the control of my birth experience that I needed (birth story of DS2 here but I'm still very aware that when we ttc no4, all these feelings are going to come flooding back, less so thanks to the help I received duringDS2's pregnancy and the good experience I had with him, but they'll still be there.

So, like I said, for me, it's control, I need to be able to control my own experience, I need to make the decisions, I need my birth plan to be followed as much as possible.

Sorry, lots of x-posts, have a sleeping baby on lap, so typing one-handed!

Damdaffs - I think care has tons to do with it, the baby being totally dependant on you is one of the scariest things you will ever encounter and we do need better post-natal care in so many cases.
spinspinsugar - perfect(? can you call something so bodged perfect?) example of medical intervention fucking things up. I'm pleased you managed to have a good experience with dd, though suffering racism after the birth I'm speechless.
JRocks did you find that with so many people around the whole thing turned into a blur? I know when I try and piece together what happened with DD it's like trying to remember a night out when youve had way too much to drink! The looks on other peoples faces were what reallyscared me. I don't think I could've coped this time round if DP hadn't been so supportive and held it together so well.

I wish I could blame the hospital or anyone really.

I just don't think my body coped very well with
having such a big baby in it.

The only thing that really irritates is that I knew ds would be massive - I could feel him in there!

No one believed me.

I was over a week late which didn't help either.

He is the most delightful child you could wish for so I don't think he suffered and it's something I will never discuss with him - my mother has moaned on and on about her terrible birth with me for as long as can remember.

How big was he MsLucy?

How far gone are you now? Have you been having regular growth scans? (I know a one off growth scan means next to nothing, but I had scans every fortnight and DS2's weight was almost exact)

I know what you mean about being in control, vs, it would make a huge difference, but isn't one of the problems with labour that its a bit like the weather; you just don't really know whats going to happen on the day? I wanted a home birth but i got hospital induction with every intervention bar a CS. How to feel empowered and in control when in reality, well, we aren't and just don't know what our bodies are going to do in labour? Maybe feeling we are involved in the decisions along the way is a start?

BTW i'm hopping to and fro, got a LO flopped on the sofa with bit of a temperature....

VS, . You are right - it really is about control (that's not to say unexpected things won't happen). Control is the very difference between my ds and dd's births. Because I was relaxed and confident in my body, everyone else just seemed like periphery to me (even myself in a way, was just along for the 'ride'). I remember the mw trying to push a g&a mask on me when I arrived, and just laughing at her, thinking 'what on earth for...?'. If only I had had that knowledge and understanding with ds, he probably would have arrived before they did ARM. Certainly IME the staff could have done alot more to empower me during labour. You get the feeling they are all thinking the woman doesn't know what she wants, and they know best because they've 'seen it all before'.

I was lucky that this time round my cons understood (different hospital) and all decisions were mine she quite clearly told me that she was their to support my decisions and tell me my options and any risks.
So, yeah, I don't expect to be in control of the situation as in I can control exactly what will happen, but I want/need to be able to make the decisions as to what course of action we take.

damduffs, snap! Why aren't we trusted to read our own bodies? With dd I was told 'your contractions aren't doing anything yet' when they hooked me up to a monitor on arrival. She was being pushed out fgs! I was examined 20 min later, and they were so shocked I was fully dialated (just because I wasn't in pain or falling about the place I suppose). I did overhear the mw being told off by another one in the corridor 'This woman's had a baby before... what were you doing??? etc'.

precisely VS.

Hi there. I feel like a bit of a loon posting this on here because you ladies have all had it much worse than me but I really do think that my pregnancy and birth are going to completely dictate how I treat my ds for the rest of his life.

I had pre-eclampsia when carrying him which was picked up at my 5 month scan as I was at King's Hospital where they were carrying out a research program into P-E. I was from that point scanned every 1 - 2 weeks and with each scan it became more & more obvious that he wasn't growing well and was suffering from fetal growth restriction. All this time I was also suffering with incredible sickness, coughing up blood and bile an average of 8 times a day. Not nice. Towards the end of my pregnancy I would lay awake all night waiting for him to kick as he was slowing down and no-one would listen to me- I knew there was something wrong but was just looked upon as a neurotic first time mother.

Anyway- at 36 weeks a consultant at Kings decided that I needed to have an c-section and deliver him within the next 12 hours. They then realised that because I'd moved to Kent (and informed them) they had inadvertanantly excluded me from their budget and I simply couldn't have him there. I was told to go home and call my local hospital to see if they could 'fit me in'. Bearing in mind that I had just been told he HAD to be delivered asap. My mother and I took turns at crying / screaming at the consultant who flat out refused us. To cut it short, I ended up in a local hospital the next morning only to be induced 3 times, in labour for 4 days and never getting further than 4cm dilated. I had a mild stroke and my son's heart stopped. They then decided a section might be a good idea and he was delivered rapidly and swept off to ICBU where he spent just one night as he was perfectly well, albeit tiny (4lb 5oz).

My upset is that I feel Kings were more interested in guinea pigging me for their precious research and left us far too long and that even though it was evident to everyone that my baby needed to be delivered urgently, they took their sweet time about it when all of this could have been avoided.

It's only recently that I even considered having another child and before I had him I wanted a tribe of children (probably partly due to naive innocence as to how much hard work this job really is!). My mother favours my brother (not being self pitying here- it's well known within our family) as she had PE and an AWFUL birth with him and has protected him and pandered to him ever since. I just worry that I will to the same with my ds. I am not a smothering mother, I let the boy get on with it but we are incredibly attached to one another and sometimes I will just sit next to his bed staring at him for ages. Christ- I'm crying!! I had best go- this is one long message- apologies ladies!!

Christ- I just did exactly what you asked people not to do and outpoured my own story. Forgive me, please!

I think this is a great idea as there's no-one better to speak to than other mothers who have been there, or close at least.

Just reassuring words can help and this is probably the best place to find that.

...so do you think that with subsequent births you are treated not QUITE so much like a cretin, plus you have forewarning of the crap you might get, so you can head off any silly behaviour from the midwives and medics etc? please say yes, i am trying for a second one!

Not at all Oimum! I didn't mean don't tell us your story, just don't tell us it and disappear, we can all tell our stories, but we need to acknowledge each others too.

A good idea for a thread.
I had some trauma when I had ds. He is now 3.5 and I am only just starting to 'get over' it.
He was born undiagnosed breech on his due date. My waters went at home and I stayed at home until I was 3 mins apart. When reaching hospital they discovered something was wrong and it basically went wrong from there. The doctors didn't tell me what was happening and the midwife completely ignored me throughout. I was taken through for a c section. The worst part for me wasn't the operation but the care before I went in to have it! I felt like a piece of meat.
I am now 16 weeks pg with number 2 and have to decide how to labour.

Oimum, lol! I just did the same!

oi mum, sorry i missed yr post. what a pile of pants you had to go thru, and 'excluding you from their budget' ...just about sums up the NHS these days. Know what you mean about having more, i can only just consider it, think because birth memory has finally got slightly blurred edges after 2 years..

Oops sorry, I misread the OP too .

OiMum did you make a formal complaint to Kings? There seems to be a complete lack of autonomy in transferring ante-natal care between regions, you seem to have to be booked in from very early days to be allowed access to a particular hospital.

I did want to illustrate how important that book was to my second labour though, it can really help so many women overcome previous birth trauma (it does go on a bit, but you sure get the message by the end!). It was one of the first texts used as the basis for hypnobirthing.

Sounds horrific OiMum, and again, in the hands of medical 'professionals'.
How is your DS now?
I was monitored for IUGR with DS2 because of the placental abruption with DD, they did a doppler scan at 26 weeks too which showed I was more at risk of IUGR or Pre-Eclampsia, as I had restricted bloodflow, so that's something I'd ask for if you have a another child.

damdaffs Yes, and no, I think if you can quote facts and figures back at them they realise you're not just a walking incubator, also print off any relevant information and keep it in your notes, highlighted, to be able to produce if need be.

damduffs I think you can be in that position even for a first labour. Anyone can always try to treat you like a cretin, the difference is how you let it impact on you. A couple of girls I know had great first labours, despite meddling attempts (one very short, one very long - but both in control and just how they wanted it).

No we made no formal complaint as I was just so past it and just so grateful to be home after 8 days in hospital being treated like a teenage offender that we just let it pass. I was also never given the chance to amend my notes as there was no mention of the anaesthetist trying to drive the epidural into my backbone in there!!

I think that having a difficult birth inevitably affects you for the rest of your life, whether it's your first baby or one of many. The thing is, this certainly goes for me anyway, I was so determined to be strong & just get on with it that I would never admit to anyone that my labour left me with so many worries. I was so scared of being labelled with PND that I just hid from it.

Were many of you left feeling a bit isolated afterwards? You're suddenly on your own, with this completely dependent little person and all this emotion and nuttiness flying around! All part of any childbirth I know but when you're physically recovering more than usual as well it can hit you twice as hard I think. And owning up to feeling a bit lonely to a HV is like signing your own section admission, isn't it?!

No, no-one has misread the OP!!!

It says

There have been previous threads on which people have oupoured their experiences but acknowledgement and discussion is more than each of us telling our own experiences, so I ask that not only do we tell our own stories but we acknowledge other's and help them to discuss their past too.

crumbs yes, i felt totally isolated. partly cos i kept replaying the birth in my head for months, couldn't understand why everyone else just seemed to move on almost immediately, overjoyed at having their baby which 'made it all worth it'. thought i must be a wimp cos i couldnt deal with it. my friends who had kids same time are great but they seemed to have ok births and did the classic 'burst into tears with joy' at the sight of their baby, whereas i just felt confused and like i'd been in a bad car crash. and yes, i didnt want to admit feeling down to health visitor as id been depressed before and thought i'd get 'watched'. also in shock at what bloody hard work it is!!! wish i had discovered mumsnet two years ago definitely.

sorry not to reply VS.
Have been working this morning (for a change!)

ds was 9lb 7oz.
I'm 5'3 and not that big.
I always thought I had child bearing hips, but obv not.
The real issue was his head rather than weight - it was on the 98th centile.

I am 14 weeks and am going to see the midwives on Mon.
Want to have a proper chat and make sure things
go a bit better this time.

I feel a bit guilty being so worried as reading this thread reminds me that others people have had a much worse time, but I just can't help it.

Deffo isolated with ds, mostly due to moving to Sydney 3mo pg and knowing no-one there at all, then having bf problems and pumping all of his feeds until he was 7mo, a touch of pnd...

For dd I was emotionally prepared, plus I had a wonderfully strong cirle of friends (back in London). I also had a very supportive HV (dd had silent reflux and an ulcerated haemangioma for which she was sent to GOSH). Most people I have spoken to say it is easier the second time around (there is hope! ).

I am amazed that you ladies ever went on to have more kids- haemorrhages, forced c-sections, racism! What a joyful time it is!

The emotional stress of it all is amplified by the physical recovery attached to a difficult birth.

As many of you have said, knowledge and keeping strong with the medical staff has got to help in future pregnancies.

mslucy - I don't think anyone would say that a 9lb 7oz baby from a 5'3" woman was an easy task!!

Will they monitor you more closely this time and keep an eye on the baby's growth? Would you opt for a c-section if the bambino is big or would simply knowing what you're up against help prepare you for a natural birth?

yep, I def. felt isolated, even with DS1's birth I didn't explain my feelings to anyone, it wasn't until I was pg with DS2 that I really admitted/faced my fears.
MsLucy are you going to ask for an ELCS? Also consider asking for regular growth scans if you're worried about the size, DS2 was 98th centile for everything on his scans, and they knew he was going to have a large head, which they weren't wrong about!

Yes, it has become quite a blur to me. A bit like having been in the eye of a storm, a lot of stuff going on around me, but feeling very quiet and spaced in the middle. I wish I'd known more, not that I could have changed my condition, but just feeling so powerless and placing all my trust in the medical team is what I would never want to repeat. And I must stress, the midwives and to some extent the consultants were great.

at being bundled off to another hospital OiMum!

I wish I'd known about MN back then, for pregnancy, birth and after wards, I think it would have been invaluable.

meant to say, i also am not naturally very good at meeting new people so i totally avoided the 1 o'clock clubs which prob was the wrong thing to do, but feeling depressed i had even less confidence to do it. and the last thing i wanted to do was go out and talk to mums about babies, felt desperate to go out and do things 'non-mum related' for a breather.
i think there can be a real feeling of not existing as a person anymore, you are just a mother, suddenly invisible! i felt like saying 'oi! i'm still here'

I am sure my experience has affected me for life. I am confident that I have dealt with it the best way I could and in time for DD's birth - which was a caesar too but a beautiful positive and calm experience - which was lucky.
I still find it hard to talk about without blubbing (DS's birth that is) and like Oimum I am sure it affects the way I treat DS. I am sure the experience also affected DS as a baby and small child - especially if I compare DD as a baby with him. I love them the same amount but in different ways - with DD I am pretty relaxed and confident about her as a person and I don't stress about stuff. With DS I worry all the time about all sorts of stupid stuff. When DD throws a wobbly she throws a wobbly. When DS throws a wobbly I convince myself that I damaged him with the lack of bonding etc etc. Stupid I know.
I do a lot of work on this to make sure that I am outwardly equal with them - I never favour one over the other - but internally I know I am not, DS seems to be a constant worry to me - when really there is nothing to worry about; he is the most amazingly cool kid ever .
I think that whatver the experience it is intensely personal to YOU. My father said to me only last month that he 'never did get that' about my bonding issues with DS because my mother never had that problem. I told my dad, "How can you possibly have an opinion about it? Have you ever given birth and stared death in the face?"
My sister still says things like, "The problem with you when your DS was born was x,y and z" I said to her that she has no possible idea what 'my problem' was or is and until she has walked in my shoes she can't have an opinion about how I dealt with it when it all happened.
That is why I get so uptight when there are threads on here about the VBAC and C-S debate and the "There is no reason why a woman can't give birth normally" argument. I would have given both my arms to have had the chance to give birth naturally. I was in labour for 48 hours before any intervention happened. There was NO botch up by the hospital. There was no intervention because I wouldn't let them intervene. In the end it was taken out of my hands because I was at the end of the line, physically and mentally. I held on to that bloody birth plan with gritted teeth and in the end it was worthless.
I AM a woman that produces babies too big for her body - 5"6', pre baby size 8, small hands and feet. DS was 10lbs 1/2 an ounce and DD was 10lbs 10oz - both had head circs way over the 98th percentile ...
I'd still be pregnant now if I hadn't had caesars.

Wow ghosty! Them sure are some big babies you be having! I think you are right though- although the most natural thing on Earth, some of us just aren't ever going to have an easy time of it. The only thing is at least we are lucky enough to be able to conceive them in the first place! Some of us just aren't designed for it unfortunately.

Love the comments from you pa & sister- just what you want and need. People are so quick to comment on things they just have absolutely no clue about?

It is all in the past for me - I won't be having any more, that's for sure (unless I want to break the 11lb barrier ) but I want to say that as VS says, being in control is very very important but also being open to all possibilities is also important too. Sticking rigidly to a birth plan like I did, and putting my own life and my baby's life at risk like I did, was not what I wanted with DD.
I wanted to go for a VBAC if possible but was open to change if necessary - and that's what happened, a labour that didn't progress (again) followed by a sensible calm move to the op theatre for the lovely calm and happy c-section that gave me my DD. If I could change that for a happy positive natural birth story I would but the main words here are 'calm' and 'happy' and 'positive' whether it be natural or not ...
IMHO

I had a traumatic 1st birth with dd and it took me a year to order my notes and another 6 months to open them. I don't want to go over the gory details anymore but it is only in this pg have I been able forced to confront them.

I am currently 34 wks pg (on the same antenatal thread that Biglips) and I began to suffer depression with this pg which I concluded was linked to my first birth experience and treatment postnatally.

For me the healing began by finding possible ways in which to make this experience more positive. Along that road I have found some of the answers to the trauma of my first experiences and have also found out some pretty scary and damning things of what amounted to gross mismanagement of my and dd's care.

I am not someone who can be fatalistic about future outcome so by informing myself of my choices and rights and exploring some of the possible eventualities and finding possible solutions to what may happen in my next birth, I have faced the pain which had lain inside me. I am now feeling a lot more positive, this time round.

I second reading Ina May Gaskin's Guide to Childbirth and I have heard damn good things about Birthing without Fear too.

Hi

I am potentially also someone that grows babies too big for her body; at least that's what my consultant thinks.

My experience: failed induction of labour, head high, no contractions, nothing, c-section, serious PPH.
My scariest moments that haunt me:
1) I didn' want a c-section and was very scared when they said that's where I was heading.
2) I was sobbing in the theatre at the thought of the spinal block. They had to wait for my DH to come in to calm me down.
2) it was only the 2nd midwife that believed me when I said I was bleeding too much; that it felt wrong. I could have taken my pulse just by feeling the blood loss.
3) When they were working on me to stop the blood loss I asked if I was going to die? I asked 5 times and no one answered. At the point I told them to call my DH (it was ab. 1.30am).

I didn't bond with my DS for at least 2 months, i don't really remember the first 24 hours, I didn't get a babymoon/loved up feeling my body was too busy recovering. B/fing was rubbish. I got PND. It fills me with horror to think of it all.

Having said that, I am 16wks PG . I am with VS on the control thing. I am a control freak and I think that is what I found to be the hardest thing. I have been to see the consultant and we have talked things through. I am having one growth scan at about 35wks to see how big the baby is. VS do you have an opinion on this? Should they be regular for a better idea of size? I am always willing to go back and discuss things.

I feel better about this birth as I have fully discussed both VBAC and Elec c-sec (am hoping for former).
I am sorry about the massive post and that so many of us have been traumatised.

I had a difficult pregnancy, mainly due to crappy care, and also a traumatic labour, well to me but seems stupid compared to some of yours but has put me off having any more children as I spent most of my time worrying.

Well it's a long story but I'll start hope you don't mind...

I was 19 when I found out I was pregnant at 5 weeks and was happy, went to doctors to confirm and he told me I would have a dating scan just to check everything over at around 8 weeks and that a MW would come and visit me as soon as to go through everything with me.
At 12 weeks the MW finally appeared after countless phone calls, checked everything blah de blah then I got my scan date... 18 weeks and 6 days pregnant I got my first scan and got all my bloods done etc, I never got the results. This was also the only appointment I had with my MW before 20 weeks.

I moved area doctors/hospital and MW at 7 months pregnant, mad routine appointment with MW to discuss bloods she had contacted old hospital who had lost my results so had to repeat bloods and came back had severe aneamia and couldnt tel whether my blood was positive or negative so had to repeat 3rd round of bloods. Finally at 7.5 months got to see a consultant who asked about detailed scan, told him I hadnt had one he was shocked and got me off to get one straight away. Was doing scan and nurse went to get consultant not saying wy after 10 minutes told us DS only had one arm to be told 5 minutes later that she hadnt done the scan properly.
Just before my due date I was out shopping when my waters broke, I contacted MW who told me that my waters had not broken sometimes pregnant women could leak urine and without seeing me decided this is what had happened. A few days later I told MW about waters before she did a membrane sweep but said no you'd know. Left it at that and took her word for it.
At 5 days overdue I started to get contractions went to hospital as they were about 2 mins apart and v. painful was attached to fetal heart monitor and heart kept slowing right down and the alarm on the machine kept goin off at his heartrate. After an hour MW decides it was okay for me to go home even though I had to be put in wheelchair to go to the car as I couldnt walk when I was getting a contraction.
At 5am next morning went to hospital with very bad contractions about 45 seconds apart got there attached to heart monitor again same thing going on was 3cm dilated, MW broke my waters and nothing came out literally a small puddle she asked if had already broken I expained wha I though and she said that wouldve been my waters going and I shouldve been brought in, consultant came in and said everything is fine with baby take me to the labour ward I asked for a second opinion doctor said to get me prepped for ECS as baby was in severe distress at which point 4 doctors came in to pt in cathater, drip and get me ready etc, man who was putting drip in tried 23 times according to my medical notes and couldnt get it in MW had to ask him to leave as he just kept putting it in and pulling it out then was finally taken to theatre, where spinal block was inserted 3 times also as it wouldn't stick in IYKWIM, where my son was born without a problem eventually. Tok me a few days to get over it all as I couldnt understand what was going on and to this day the doctors hav never told me why I needed a ECS even though they told my mum my DS had his cord round his neck twice and was being strangled with every contraction.

Soory it's so long but I just had to tell the whole lot to get my point across about it all, it terrifies the thought of this happenening to me or anyone else again.

booksgalore, i have learnt recently that it is not the size of the baby but the size of the head which is more crucial.

dd was only 7lb 4 oz at 38 wks when I was induced but her head circumference was on the 95%. Dh has a big head and mine, well, isn't small either so no wonder.

oh mamadiva; your story makes my heart cry for you; what a bloody awful experience. I am at your hospital and its staff for being so thoughtless and blase towards you. I hope you are able to find some comfort through this thread.

AAAh! kiskidee, DS1 has lovely big head although I have small head. I have to wear junior snowboarding helmet much to my DH amusement .

Thanks booksgalore, I came on to see what other exoeriences people have had because it's nice to know it's not just me who has gone through this and that its not just me who is terrified at the thought if it happeneing again.

booksgalore I definitely feel they should be regular rather than singular. If you imagine a fetus in relation to a baby and the ups and downs they have on the centiles, most babies will go upand down centiles, but keep coming back to their average centile, the same can be said for babies in the womb, so one growth scan may not plot accurately, whereas regular scans will give a better indicator of which centile your baby is likely to be on.

In my pregnancy notes it had a chart showing centiles , weeks gestation and sizes, both of head circumference and weight, do your notes have this? It was near the back somewhere.

mamadiva I'm so glad I got to the end of your story without the ending I was expecting.
Yet again, medical 'unprofessionals.
This is so sad.

mamadiva your story is horrible, as is booksgalore. To ask whether you are dying and not get a response must have been terrifying.

I know it's the oldest saying going but just because these people deal with this all day every day and they're completely at ease, we don't do this every day and we are scared out of our wits! I always find the scariest thing is the unknown and feeling completely out of control. Although with childbirth there are some things which you have absolutely no control over, at least being confidently informed of matters would help no end.

And is it me or do about 90% of mothers have some horror story which revolves around lack of care/support/professionalism from hospital staff? Saying that- NHS aftercare isn't exactly top notch either. I asked a HV at least 5 years my junior (I am a mere 27) a question and she immediately consulted her coursework notes!

Hi everyone. I've read through the thread so far and must say I think it is a great idea - so many people have had to face such horrors in isolation, and by sharing with people who understand hopefully we can all feel stronger.

I'm 11 weeks pg with my second, and am really not sure how I feel at the moment. This pg was planned, and we would have ttc earlier but wanted to be more sure I was feeling positive about birth, but now the reality of pg has hit home I think I've taken a few steps backwards.

There are so many parts of my story that might have caused trauma, that I'm really not sure what to mention and what to leave out, and I've analysed it over and over for 20 months now!

My contractions started at 5.30pm on dd's due date. They were every ten minutes, and really not too painful, but in my naivety I thought I'd be better off getting to hospital, and eventually got there at 9pm. I was examined, only 1cm, so came home. Through the night the contractions became more painful, and I got no sleep. Finally went in again at 3am. At this point I was in a small comfortable room in a mw-led unit, and was coping with the pain with breathing. I was using a birthing ball, and the general mood was good - I was hopeful of meeting my lo soon, coping well with the pain etc.

This all changed when there was a change of shift and a new mw examined me. She panicked. She strapped me to a monitor for half an hour concerned about my bp (which was ok), then said she thought the baby was breech and I'd have to be transferred where my waters could be broken in a controlled way, and I might possibly have an E-CS.

I was crying at this point as they loaded me onto the stretcher, and put me in the ambulance. Dh had to follow behind in his car, and I was most afraid of arriving at hospital without him, and having a general anaesthetic and CS without him being there.

When I got there the scan revealed dd wasn't breech. The consultant broke my waters which was horrific - I was scrabbling up the bed in an attempt to get away from him and wailing like an animal, it was excruciating. I was then given drip/syntocin, and the contractions started doubling up. I lost it at this point, and was utterly terrified of the pain, and begged for an epidural. Anaeth. wasn't available so I had two shots of pethidine over the next few hours, then eventually had an epidural at about 3pm. Then there was calm while they waited for my cervix to dilate. Every four hours I was inspected, there was a remaining 'ridge' so it seemed to go on an on. At midnight they told me I was dilated and would need to wait for the epidural to wear off ready to push. I was petrified of the pain returning, so know that I was not ready to push at all but said I was in desperation. I was told pretty bluntly that my pushing wasn't good enough, and that I only had an hour to push. I honestly pushed like my life depended on it - my lungs hurt, and I felt like I was going to explode, but it didn't seem to have any effect. Eventually after an hour and fifteen minutes of pushing like my life depended on it they gave me an episiotomy, put my legs in stirrups and used the ventouse to literally yank dd out. She was stuck fast (shoulder dystocia) but with forceful pulling was released. I suffered a pph, and was stitched up. Dd didn't cry to begin with - she was blue - but came around quickly and I bf her. There was no feeling of elation - just shaky terror.

A nurse took me in a wheelchair to have a shower but I couldn't stand up. I just slumped in the corner and she passed soap through the curtain to me, covered in blood.

I was wheeled to the ward at 4am, and dh had to go home. I was put on the bed, and was hungry having not eaten for 32 hours, and still frightened. The word that was going around in my head was 'brutalised' as I lay in terror looking at dd. She fed for another half an hour or so, but I had to ask for a mw to lift her up because I coudln't move.

The next morning I still couldn't move. I was frightened I'd been paralysed by the epidural. A burly mw came and told me that I'd have to get up and walk around or I'd get a DVT. I was crying pathetically that I couldn't. I simply couldn't move. She bullied me out of bed and slumped me in an armchair to change my pad, then pushed me back into bed.

The day continued like this, and the next day I had to 'prove' that I could walk before they would allow me to be transferred back to the mw-led unit. Dh had to take me and dd in the car, and I had to walk from the car park all the way to the maternity unit. After that, I couldn't walk again. The mw's there tried to help me bf, and told me off for getting up to feed in the armchair at night. I couldn't feed lying down, as I couldn't lie on my side. In fact, I couldn't lie in bed at all. On day three a mw listened to me as I explained this, and diagnosed SPD. I was given appropriate pain relief and crutches, and I realised that the pain I had repeatedly told my mw about that had prevented me from sleeping for the last four months had been SPD.

I returned home feeling 'broken'. I couldn't lift dd for weeks, and was unable to walk properly for months. I started seeing a chiropractor 12 months after her birth, and physically felt much better before ttc #2. I also reviewed my notes at a 'talkback' session at the mw-led unit, and read up more on shoulder dystocia, and joined an SPD support group. I thought I was ready, and felt positive about things being different this time.

Now I just feel depressed, and tired. I'm hoping that by joining this thread things might start to pick up, and hope to talk to like-minded people about their own experiences. Sorry for the long out-pouring, its probably way too long, but once I started I just kind of kept going, so thank you for having a look.

im glad you started this thread victorian squalor. i can empathise with many of you.

its nice to be able to share these experiences with someone who knows what its been like. Like damdaffs, it was the aftercare thats left me in the situation of deciding whether or not i shud have another baby. ds is now 21months old. birth was ok - very very painfull - induced at term+5 with 2 lots of inducing gel at the same time - was told the contractions would come faster and more painfull. I teard very badly - 3rd degree and had to have a spinal block and stiched in theater. came home 2 days later. 3rd day after ds was born i got severe pains from back of neck to lower back - paralysing me for a good 10 seconds about 3 times that day, 4th day i was bent double, couldnt straigthen myself out - went to A&E - sent me home with pain killers and diagnosed it as muscle spasm. day after hadn't passed water all day although wanting to go. ended up in hospital again on the maternity ward WITHOUT my baby as was unable to feed him as couldn't move - was able to hear everyone elses baby's cry. i was diagnosed a week and half later with a prolapsed disc in L4 L5 region, it was sitting on the sciatic nerve which ran down my left leg. spent 5 weeks in hosp drugged up without my baby - risk of mrsa etc... and was kicked out of a private room (my baby couidn't visit me on the general ward due to infection risks)

So - do i have another child? i just dont know - i dont know if im mentally ready - i dont know how my backs going to take it and if my tear will tear again or will i have to have a c section - i dont want to be away from my child.

Happynappies - i think you've done the right thing writing on here - its a step forward, im sure there will be lots of pick me ups on here.

Happynappies - you're definitely doing the right thing by posting. You need to get it 'out there' and be listened to.

Reading some of your stories brings back yet more memories, I must admit. I had mixed feelings about my aftercare. Largely, the postnatal ward staff were lovely, apart from a couple that were downright rude. young girls,I might add. Once I was finally home, one of the mw was utterly cold..I was in agony at my episiotomy site, and all she could do was be unsympathetic and vague. Only when I told her that swabs were taken before I left hospital did she call up for the results, and surprisingly enough I had an infection in my stitches. Her bedside manner was non-existent as she told me that 'your wound will probably re-open so it can heal properly' - I was terrified yet again.

At least next time I can take comfort in 'this too shall pass' It just seems like forever at the time.

It's very comforting to realise that others are struggling to deal with similar and worse. I've kind of buried it so far.

oimum "And is it me or do about 90% of mothers have some horror story which revolves around lack of care/support/professionalism from hospital staff? Saying that- NHS aftercare isn't exactly top notch either."

I don't think it is you. Someone on another thread said something that rang true for me.

If at all possible, don't go into labour at night, on the weekend or on a bank holiday.

For me that was true.

Happynappies your story sounds horrible!

With better care and you'll be better prepeared this time hopefully you will get through this. Hopefully this thread will keep going and you can come on here and talk whenever you need to and let us know how LO is progressing.

Smelnel I just don't know how you coped being in hospital away from your baby for so long.

Mamadiva thanks for your kind words - I certainly will come back on here to talk.

It strikes me that some of us are left traumatised by the attitude/manner/behaviour of the medical staff, who I'm sure in their own way are trying to do their job. Indeed when I spoke to the mw at the 'talkback' session she seemed very pleased with the way my birth had gone because it hadn't ended in CS, and I had a healthy baby girl at the end of it. I noticed in hospital that there were so many kind, caring, helpful mw's, but so many other abrupt/cold mw's - sort of like 'good cop, bad cop' - which makes a very stressful time even more confusing. You kind of open up to one of them, feel comforted and reassured, then it brings you up short when the next one comes to you and criticises you sharply and you're back at square one...

Hi all.

My birth story is not quite as traumatic as most of yours (although I thought it was till I read this post) I went into hospital with contractions and got all the way to 10cm (in 10 hours) and then my BP shot through the roof and with every push it was going up, they put me on magnisium to try and lower it which briefly made me lose my sight and i became very scared, the room filled up and I was taken down to theatre for an emergency CS. DD weighed 9lb 1 and was fine.

The next day the cons came to see me and said that he didn't think i realised how sick i had been and asked if i wanted to talk about what happened, I said no as I was too tired and ill to care.

I am now 13 weeks pregnant and wondered if anyone knows if you are allowed to get your notes from the labour. I am worried now that if i dont know what happened/went wrong last time then i won't be in control to stop it happening again this time round.

happynappies Another terrible story about the brutality (great word) of some of the medical staff in this profession. I sometimes wonder if they know what they are doing or if they just want the baby out. Do you have any preferences about type of birth this time round?

kiskidee I am pleased you sound quite upbeat about labour this time around, amazing how much more positive a little information and a ton of determination can make us feel isn't it? The CS with DS2 was the last thing I wanted, but I coped and have no bad memories of it at all.
smelnel why the induction? Purely due to dates?

In relation to aftercare, the bitch nurse/midwife(?) on HDU after DS1's CS was trying to give him a bottle when they finally put me with him, I had explicitly said Breastfed only as I was determined if I couldn't have the birth I wanted then I would not let them take BFing away from me too. I had to practically shout at her before she agreed not to feed him, as if she had the right!

Jelliebaby yes, you can, you need to speak to the records department of your hospital, mine told me I would have to pay £50 for them though! And they refused to send them to the hospital I had DS2 in My cons had to basically go in blind as my first CS was a classic cut (down rather than across) on my abdomen (as they were doing the exploratory op and then decided to do the CS) and no-one knew how my uterus had been cut.

VS yes - induced because overdue - i went in with what i thought were contractions - they wernt - jst pains they said but wouldnt let me go home. i cried every night in hospital.

they go on about how important it is for skin to skin and breastfeeding i felt so guilty for 'letting down' my ds. made it worse to be stuck on a maternity ward watching new mums breastfeed their newborns. i even felt guilty for eating / watching tv. everyone kept telling me that my ds doesnt know any better - he will be fine being with grandma and being bottle fed. - i sure to hell didnt feel ok with any of it. i still feel as if ive missed out on so much and am scared if i have to have a c section next time (if there ever is a next time) due to to 3rd degree tear and slipped disc and have to miss out on all that 'bonding' all over again.

Happienappies did the chiropractor really help? didnt help my back but an osteopath helped a lot more. Pilates does the trick now.

smenel did you read DS2's birthing story? I linked it in one of my first posts on this thread.

A cs can be a nice experience, He is laying on my lap now I have only been parted with him for longer than about an hour twice in four months, once to go out on the lash and once to go see a car we wanted to buy. CS's don't have to be the end, though I can understand your apprehension.

One thing we all need to remember is that they can't stop us or make us do anything we don't want. It's our baby, our body and our pregnancy, they just do well to make us believe otherwise.

I meant to add, you didn't let him down, you and he were let down by the people supposedly there to look after you.

Just like most of us of this thread.

VS im in tears reading your reply!! time of month i think. i just feel like i wasnt there for him as a mother - although i know i didnt do it through any fault of my own. yes - i read your cs story.

i think im ready for another baby - thats why ive brought myself to talk about this - just have to convince my dh its what i really want.

My 'therapy' for this birth included: a meeting with the Supervisor of Midwives and the Infant feeding Coordinator (a post which didn't exist 3 yrs ago afaik) about to the postnatal care we received.

I saw my post natal ward notes which were not copied to me when I requested my notes. It makes very scary reading, even now i still well up just thinking about it. It was mostly this care that has spurred me to do my peer support and now breadtfeeding counsellor training. Reading them with the knowledge I have now, I feel sorry for what the woman and baby we were were made to endure due to piss poor bf knowledge on the HDU unit and then PN ward.

I have also had a meeting with an anaesthecist about any possible future pain relief should I happen to develop a medical condition which requires admission like the last time. He turned out to be my angel in disguise. I almost didn't go for the appt because I was running late and expected a 10 min short shrift 'talk'. This man spent at least 40 mins talking to me and lots of things came out that were only peripheral to why I was there. When I left his office, I felt like the wind had been knocked completely out of my sails despite recounting my experiences before in several instances to people who can understand on a professional level where I was coming from. It has been a couple of weeks and I mean i will send him a thank you card for his kindness that day.

I have poured out my last experience to the team manager of the CMW (not by choice) and she was honestly surprised at how bad a time I had as she saw me briefly in the HDU after dd's birth. She also unwittingly put some pieces of the puzzle into prespective for me with regard to the mismanagement of my labour and made me sure that some of this was not just in my [sceptical] mind.

Reading Ina May Gaskin's book has been a godsend. It is by co-incidence that I feel I 'know' her already. I also know 2 other founding members of The Farm which by extension has galvanised my trust in what she has said.

My consultant has been pretty useless in supporting my birth choices tbh. I have written 2 pointed letters to people in my Trust in order to get my choices recognised and taken seriously. Not the way to win my trust in the NHS this time round in case I end up on a ward again.

I have also found a wonderful birth supporter who will be by my side if I have my HWB or have to be in hosp again.

I have also read a lot on the AIMS and HomebirthUK websites and follow certain threads on the midwifery and home birth Yahoo groups. I have not been there so much but one acquaintance who is due the same time as I and also had a bad first experience has found the NICE website informative and anger producing due to how her labour and delivery were managed and also providing her with info on her next birth.

So this is how I have arrived to what feels like a position of control and power for the upcoming birth.

Here is hoping some of you coming down this road can find some answers to your queries along the way I have found.

I know what you mean, pain often manifests itself as guilt, I feel guilty for complaining so much, thinking maybe if I hadn't then DD would have been in the womb longer and been able to feed rather than spend a month in SCBU, I feel guilty that she has dyspraxia, incase it was because of her stopping breathing (paed said it can be caused by lack of oxygen), I feel guilty that I buried my head in the sand and didn't bond with her the way I have my other two, I feel guilty that I spent most of the time she was in SCBU off my face cos I couldn't deal with it!
But slowly, day-by-day, the more I learn the more that guilt turns to anger and resolution to do something to change peoples experiences, at the moment the bfing is a big thing for me and I'm concentrating on helping people there, but one day I'll do more, and I will change things.

I had spd, then traumatic birth exp. Bitch midwife, and bad tearing, cuts, etc.

I was totally in shock, for months, years.

I felt so sstupid, that I didn't have the knowledge about what might happen.

I think its ludicrous that women prob up till the past 5 yrs have been going into the birth without the full facts.

I htink that the shock and mutilation, and everything i had, made me feel like i had been abused.

My dd is 6 and back then there was no support ofr the SPD, i felt like a freak, and i felt very alone. Nothing more upseting than to be in severe pain and gps, midwives, not have clue what you are talking about.

my husband left me too, 3 yrs after, when i was just starting to feel nomral again.