I have remarked over the last few months that there are a number of us on this forum who are living through the death of our brothers and sisters. I would even go so far as to say I never even imagined there could be so many!

I have also noticed that the thread for bereaved mummies is the most amazing place of support, a great place to go and say how you feel without being judged, and knowing that others are going through something similar. And of course a place to go and get a good old MN hug.

So I wondered if those of you who have lost siblings would like to join me in making a place where we can say how we are feeling and to be here for each other, and even to gripe and moan! If you are interested, just let us know a bit about your sibling and a bit about your grief journey if you like. I'll start!

My youngest brother Jonny died a little over five months ago as a result of head injuries sustained during a hit and run accident. My family spent a week in intensive care with him in a coma before he died of heart failure on Fri 30th May 2008. Horrible, just horrible.

I feel down most of the time. But will admit to the strangest mood swings, from very depressed to almost hyper-excited. I still drink and smoke a lot, but less than right at the beginning. Suffice to say that things are not getting easier or better. Maybe even the opposite. I'm dreading Christmas, Jonny's birthday, and then the inquest and court case. I hate it all so much and wish often that it would just all go away. I still can't believe I'm writing this tuff about my own brother.

It's hard to quickly put into a short paragraph the pain and turmoil of the last five months. But I'm sure if this thread works out we'll have plenty of time to go into more detail.

Over to you...

Love Me xx

Hi EM Great idea, albeit one I wish we didn't need

My older brother Simon died of cancer last year, in April, aged 34. He was happily married and had everything to live for. He was my only sibling and we adored each other. My family has been through a lot of bad times already, particularly my mum's suicide when Si and I were teenagers, so to lose him to such a ridiculously rare disease is an unbearable kick in the teeth. I still can't really believe it, tbh. I don't think I'll ever come to terms with it; in fact I don't want to. Part of me wants to preserve the hurt and the anger I feel at how someone so wonderful could be made to suffer like that.

And of course there is no focus for my anger, because he died by a freak of biology, not by human intervention. But then I doubt having that focus would make things 'better' - what happened to your brother sounds utterly unbearable and I so hope that some kind of justice can be served, however short it will fall of making things right.

Anyway, I will post the eulogy I gave for him if you don't mind - it says a lot of things I would want people to know about Si, and I am proud of myself that I could do that last thing for him when no one else could.

My eulogy:

I don’t have to tell you what kind of man Simon was. The fact that you are here means that you knew him, and if you knew him, then you loved him. So I thought I would tell you a bit about what he was like as a brother, because no one knows that but me.

Simon was the constant star in my world. Of course I loved all of my family, but Simon was the one I looked to for friendship, equality, allegiance and of course fun. My grandma has often told us about when Mum brought me home from the hospital as a newborn; Simon was apparently so proud to have a sister, he wouldn’t let anyone else hold me. He always involved me in everything he did, and I was well into my teens before I realised that not all little sisters are this lucky.

As kids we played together around the flat where we grew up: launching fleets of paper planes out of the bedroom window and then leaving them to go soggy in the rain; making toy crossbows and catapults out of odds and ends of wood so that we could play wargames; spending one particularly hot and idle day boring holes in the wall of our block of flats, which our parents were not too happy about! On rainy days we would paint, draw, play with his vast collection of Star Wars figures, or make silly recordings of ourselves to laugh over later.

As we got older, Simon of course got more interested in music, girls and parties, but he never shut me out. I was the annoying 12 year old hanging around his oh-so-grown-up 15 year old friends. Once I hit the teenage years, I would spend long hours sitting in his room after our folks had gone to bed, as he excitedly introduced me to whatever new music he’d lately discovered. Connecting with each other through music remained a key part of our relationship.

Our mum’s sudden death hit everyone hard; I was 14 and wounded, but Simon was 18, almost a man, and I sometimes think he put his own grief aside to be strong for me. He shielded me from his anger and pain, to allow my own feelings a clear space. That was typical of him – always more concerned for the feelings of those he loved, than his own. I hope he knew that in those endless late nights spent sharing our dreams, our days and our interests, he saved me from despair and helped me back towards a happy future.

Simon was a dreamer, a talented musician, an intelligent and perceptive thinker, and a gentle, loving soul. This you all know. The things he wanted most in life were things of the soul: a happy life, in a place he could call home, a circle of genuine, loyal friends with whom he could share his passions – music, football and really silly jokes. Most of all, he wanted someone he could love and who would love him for who he was. He looked for these things for many years, sometimes getting his heart broken in the process, but ultimately he found his place and with it, fulfilment.

I’ll never forget the day I realised that this had happened. It was a little while after he and N had started seeing each other. Simon always liked girls with dark hair and pale skin, and in the past had expressed casual admiration for a friend of mine who fit the bill. This friend had just become single again, and I was teasing him about it, saying “By the way, so-and-so is on the market again”. Ordinarily Simon would join in the spirit of things, but this time he looked at me very seriously and quietly said “That’s great for her, but I don’t need to know - I’ve got N”. That was when I knew that he had found everything he’d ever wanted. The love they shared illuminated us all, and I am so grateful for that.

I know that I will never get over losing Simon. The pain will never go away. But I hope that I will be able to make a place for it alongside all the strong and positive aspects of life, and I would not be able to do this if I had never known the love, courage and strength he gave to me. He is my hero, and I am very proud to be his sister.

cyteen, thanks so much for posting that. What heartfelt words... I bet your brother was as proud of you as you obviously are of him. Strangely, I can see a lot of my brother in the things you wrote - about him being sensitive, a thinker, a gentle person who knew at the same time how to have a laugh. It's amazing what a picture I can build of your brother just by reading your eulogy - you were obviously very close. And you should be very proud of yourself for reading - did you find it hard? I did a reading at my brother's funeral and it's such a blur. I made a point of not looking at anyone while I was reading because I was so frightened of all the multitudes of people that were there, and I got through it. We all did. Both my brother and dad read eulogies, perhaps one day I'll post them on here too, and my mum spoke too. I think it was important for all of us to show hos much love we had for Jonny, we wanted to do something that he deserved, and getting through that day bravely was it.

I can also see some of how I feel at the moment in your first post. The part of not wanting to let go of the pain, I can definitely identify with. Someone on the bereavement topic talked about their 'grief bubble', and that's something I feel too. I want to stay either by myself or with close family, thinking and talking about Jonny or not talking and just crying. I feel it would be like letting go of him and I just don't want to do that.

I can tell you from my experience that it's not any easier having somewhere to focus the anger. I hate that person for killing my brother, but it won't change anything, so it's not easier. I don't think justice will ever be served. It won't bring Jonny back, which is what we all want, so it sometimes seems by the by. I say that now, but some days I want him to pay with his life, like my brother did, and like we will all have to, living through this most awful grief. I could never imagine how hard it would be.

Anyway, I do go on! Thanks for posting here and let's hope other people feel comfortable enough to come and share with us. But even if they don't we'll be here! We can go on and on with each other!

Do you ever feel that people get annoyed with you wanting to talk about it? Or did you earlier on? I most of the time pretend I'm ok so people won't get embarrassed by my crying, or bored with my going over and over the same details. It feels very lonely, even with my other brother and parents living the same thing...

Hello evansmummy and cyteen.

I'm so sorry that your brothers have died - your words are so touching; you obviously loved them very much.

Not sure I can really post here as it was my sister-in-law who died (two years ago, a few weeks before DD was born). I do worry so much about DH; he does talk about his sister, but I'm concerned that he didn't really get a chance to grieve properly - losing her then becoming a father almost at the same time.

Still, two years down the horrible line, he is doing ok and thinks of her with love and happiness, remembering the good times. Maybe you never 'get over' something so awful and wrong - and it's so WRONG when someone young dies - but you do just go on.

Anyway, I just wanted to pass on my condolences. And write something about my dear sister-in-law, who was a wonderful person and is much much missed.

evansmummy, well done for starting this thread, it is well overdue and tis a place I shall visit if tha's ok ?

To all of you, sibling or sibling-in-law. I am sorry and send you some of those special MN hugs. You have all posted some lovely words and it is so nice we can share here.

Right now is really a very difficult time for me and I shall try and simplify it for you as much as possible.

My brother died in a car accident when he was 18, now 19 years ago. No other vehicles involved, just him, a bend and a tree. Nowt either side, but he hit the tree

He had a wonderful girlfriend at the time and they had been boyfriend and girlfriend for years through school. The real deal you might say.

After John (how odd, another version of Jonny ) died, his girlfriend and I stayed like sisters. She went away to University and met somebody else.

A wonderful man who loved, adored and cherished her as I knew or thought only my brother could, but she had found someone else and I was over the moon.

They married and had three children.

He died in his sleep 4 weeks and 5 days ago now, aged 36.

She is expecting their 4th child, she is 15 weeks pregnant and all alone.

She has loved and lost twice now and it is tearing me apart so I have no idea what it is doing to her.

She lives at the other end of the country to me and I spent a long weekend with them this weekend. Oh how my heart aches for those little children and her.

What I have written so far is very little about my stunningly handsome brother.

I will come to him another day but just wanted you to know evans, there is definately a need for this thread and thank you for being the one to start it. x

evans, I knew your name rang a bell...... have looked back and found that I posted on your original thread that you started two weeks after your brother died back in June.

I know it's a well used saying but time does heal.

If you had told me that in the first 5-7 years I would have knocked your block off, but I am 19 years down the road and can say, hand on heart, you will cope and things do get easier.

A weird day for me this year was in April. He died when he was 18 years and 8 months exactly. Once he had been gone 18 years 8 months and one day things were very odd.

Glad we have found one another again to share our brothers.

The Oldest Cat and VS (can't bring myself to type it in full!), thank you both for posting. I'm glad you think there's a need for this thread. I hope it will be helpful to people.

TOC, I'm sorry for your and your husband's loss. Lots of people have said that you never get over it, just learn to live with it. But VS is a long way down the line, and I guess has come to some kind of terms with it. I'm not sure how I feel about that atm, but it's still very early days for me.

VS, how sad about your brother's first love. It feels like such a waste, doesn't it? My brother (actually Jonathan, Jonny to his family and Jon to his mates) didn't have time to find the real thing, and I'm sorry for that, because he would've made a fantastic husband and father one day. Again, a waste.

You ought to be careful about saying it'll get easier, though. Someone might knowk your block off

Last night I watched a dvd of my brother in a play he did 2 years ago. He did an Acting degree at Leeds Uni which he graduated from last year. He gave me this dvd at Xmas 2006 and I'd never got round to watching it, which of course I feel dreadful about now. So last night I finally sat down and watched Ajax, in which Jonny had the title role. Blew my socks off. He was amazing, the whole cast was. It's originally a Greek tragedy, so Ajax commits suicide at the end, which was hard too because I couldn't help but remember him dead at the hospital. I cried a lot of the way through, particularly through the interviews at the end of the piece. It was just him, glasses (he wore contacts when out and about), rugby shirt n all. Just how I remember him. Very painful. I'm crying now.

hijack alert...I dont belong on here but..

I just popped into say well done Evansmummy for starting this thread.

I am really sorry that everyone is having to meet under these circumstances but I hope you all find the love and support that I found on the bereaved mummies thread.

hijack over.. wanders back to whence she came from

evansmummy, good on you for starting this thread although bloomin rotten reason that we are all on here for I will definitely be visiting and sharing my story - although no time just now!! Just wanted to post a quick hello while I remember......

block still on shoulders here

It is the worst thing anybody can say as the pain and emotion are so raw.

frasermummy, hello and hello to you too pushki, come back soon

Hi frasersmummy, thanks, I thought it a good idea. It can be so hard in RL to find someone to share this stuff with, so 'meeting' with people on MN who have similar losses can only be good.

Echo that I wish we didn't have to...

pushki, hi, and we'll be here whenever you do have time!

VS, it's hard to believe it'll ever get easier, but people like your good self do give me hope. I think. I meant what I said though, that at the moment I don't want to 'be' anywhere else but in full-on grief. Would feel wrong and impossible to be anywhere else.

evansmummy, I completely understand.

You have yet to do all the "firsts"

Christmas, Anniversary of his death, anniversary of the accident, the funeral etc etc They were all awful for us and still can be now.

Some years are easier than others, as long as I can have a good blub in the morning, I trickle along for the rest of the day.

I can remember the intensity of my grief in those first years.

How dare people go about their business, people out shopping, laughing, having fun etc....... Didn't they know my brother was dead, how dare they

I also understand the wanting to be in the hell hole of grief that you are in too.

I am very proud of you watching that DVD. One of the hardest things for me still now is to watch footage of John. So for you to sit and watch yours now is admirable and also a good thing as I think it helps you talk about him too.

Do you have any other siblings ? Is it "just you" left behind ? That is how I felt. I had an accident on the very same road, 3 miles further on only 2 years before my brothers.

I was a bit of a vagabond and he was a good steady young man.

For quite some time I questioned how come I lived and he died. I had always been the one to give my parents a hard time, he was the easy one.

All very deep rooted psychological stuff and am happy to thrash it all out with you here.

I also lost my cousin and her husband 10 years ago. They drowned together on honeymoon whilst walking in the Lake District. It was awful, just awful. My other cousin and I are the two elder ones and have both lost our younger siblings.

If I can help anybody here with anything, then please just ask away.

Grief is unique to each individual, there is no right or wrong way to grieve.

Ah Vaggy, what a lot of awful loss Have no adequate words really, except to say that you must be one strong lady.

Hi pushki and TheOldestCat, welcome to our little crew. Let's hope we can all support each other

evansmummy, it's funny you should ask about whether I feel people are tired of me talking about it...I actually hardly talk about it at all. With my mum I went on this whole grief journey, talked about her and the suicide all the time, explored my feelings with anyone who would listen. That journey is still ongoing, obviously, as the space she left in my life keeps changing over time as I change. But with Si, I just feel like there is nothing to say and it worries me a little bit. I don't feel like I'm travelling along the grief road. I feel like I am still stuck at the point of his death and cannot even access my feelings to start to understand them myself. It's not good.

Possibly having my son has contributed to this, I don't know...two such major life changes in such a short space of time is a lot to take in, maybe I've just overloaded

I too am very impressed that you watched the DVD, glad for you that there's a record of him performing (even though it must have been hell to watch in some ways). We have lots of pictures of Si, of course, and there's tons of music that I play that just is him. Sometimes I get a strong memory of the smell of his hair, which sounds weird, it's not like I spent hours sniffing it deliberately of course. But when he was sick I spent lots of time by the head of his bed so I guess it must have crept into my awareness then.

Also when DS falls asleep with his head on my shoulder, he looks so like Si, sleeping in the hospital.

cyteen, hello. I have gone back and read about your Brother and your Mum too.

How much does any of us have to go through ?

Your brother sounds like an absolute star. What you said about staying up til late talking to him, listening to music is very thought provoking for me too.

I cannot imagine the loss of your Mum too I'm really very sorry and send you some hugs.

I'm glad we have found one another and can share our experiences, our memories and just have a good old blub without anybody seeing us wipe our snooty noses up our sleeves or the panda eyes when the mascara has run all down our faces.

Which is what I'm doing now. Reading your both your posts has made me cry. Thank you for your honesty.

VS, I'm so sorry for your cousin too. My mum said after Jonny died that she felt kind of invincible - like a horrible death in the family had happened once, so couldn't happen again. I remember telling her your (you posted it on my original thread) and shabster's stories. We're all so vulnerable, and until it happens to you, I don't think we can always realise it.

I have another younger brother. I'm the eldest. Jonny was the youngest. One of the first things my other brother said after Jonny died was, "well, i'm the youngest now". Heart breaking. He was also the best behaved, probably, or at least the least trouble. I too have thought it should've been me. He had so much to live for. I know I have a dh and ds, but at least with them I've left a piece of myself, I've mde a mark. And he didn't get the chance. He didn't deserve to die so young. But then none of them did.

He had two other accidents while at uni - one falling off a fire escape and breaking his jaw. The other, he was attacked on his way home from work and beaten. It's like the place had it in for him, or like he was a 'marked man'. That sounds weird but it feels like that.

I'm dreading all the firsts. Christmas coming up is gonna be sad. Plus Jonny's not even buried yet, so we'll have all that to go through at some point.

cyteen, did your brother get to meet your son? As V said, grief is so different for everyone. My other brother won't talk about it at all, whereas I cold spend the day going over and over it. Do you talk to your child/ren about your brother, or are they too young? That thing about the hair, how touching. There are certain things that get me every time - music, the same as you, he was a great gig-goer! Sniffing my sons hair when I'm tired - I used to do it to Jonny when we were kids (there's 7 years between us). And my son sleeping, too, funnily enough. Looks just like Jonny did at that age.

I feel desperate that he won't see ds grow up - he loved him so much. And that he'll never get to see the others if we have any.
But then I guess we'll all go through those feelings.

So glad you started this thread Evansmummy - well done. xxxxx

evans, sadly no - Si died last April and i fell pregnant in December. he didn't even know we were trying.

Had a bit of howl, reading this. My sister died on Saturday. I almost feel that I shouldn't be too sad, because she was only my sister, not my daughter. But I know I'm going to miss her. It wasn't surprising, but it was still shocking.

oh god jeee, i am so sorry please don't feel that your grief should be less because she was your sister. siblings are a unique and intertwined part of our lives and who we are.

please come back and talk to us some more, if you feel like it

I'm still... I really don't know. But I kind of hope that it's not real. She'd been ill for so long (diagnosis was 13 years ago), but despite loads of hiccups managed to keep going. Everything that could go wrong for her did, but she got back to work after 2 transplants and spinal cord damage. She played sport to national standard. She got off her hospital bed this summer, and managed to get a place in the Beijing paralympics, though was unfortunately too ill to take it up. So however you look at it, she made the most of all the time she had. She knew my eldest 3 children really well, which meant a lot to me, and to her... And she was in so much pain by the end that it was horrible.

she sounds amazing it is so hard watching them struggle through intensive medical care. my brother only had a couple of years of it as his cancer pretty much ate him up, but it was very full on - lots of spinal surgery, horrible chemo, loss of mobility etc. he was so together and strong-minded about it. i doubt i could have managed the way he did without being a total nightmare.

i know what you mean about it being shocking despite not being a surprise - that's exactly how it was for us too.

i wish there was something useful i could say are your family able to lean on each other, do you have good support around you?

lovely idea evansmummy.
My brother died when he was ten - he was my middle brother - I was 13 and my younger brother 6. He was beautiful,dark hair,brown eyes - v like my mum.He was sporty and could draw brilliantly. I'd get very homesick staying at my grandparents - kind but quite strict - and I'd insist on him sharing my room - he was a great ally and a comfort. Of course we fought like cats and dogs but we had a lot of fun too. When he was staying with my grandparents ( on his own for some reason) he had to come home early as he was unwell. It was pretty soon discovered that he had a rare cancer (of the kidney0 and although operated on to remove the tumour it was terminal and my parents brought him home to nurse. He lived for about six months and everyone was brilliant - friends of my parents all helped look after him,an actor friend came in to read stories,Treasure Island - complete with a real parrot on his shoulder..everyone was great and we two children,my younger brother and I, were unaware of how ill my brother R was, which meant that we kept life pretty much normal at home. There was one occassion when he was very poorly and it occurred to me that he might die and the thought absolutely terrified me.
When he did die he slipped away in the night..my older 2nd cousin who was a nurse was there. My dad came to meet me after school that day - they didn't tell me first thing- and I remember exactly where we were in the road on the way home when he told me and the exact words.
I miss what he would have been..a friend, father,husband,son - I think we'd have been close as there was just the three years between us. Every year I think of him especially on November 15th which is his anniversary.

cyteen - I remember reading your fabulous eulogy for your brother - thank you for sharing it

My brother's in a bit of a state, and is with Mum and Dad, who live a couple of hundred miles a way. I'm lucky in that DH has been wonderful. A couple of friends have lost adult siblings (one in very, very similar circumstances), although at the moment I'm not really ready to use support. I'm going to the funeral next week with the family, and I guess I'll have to face reality when I get back home after this. Christmas is going to be a complete nightmare though, because it was my sister's absolute favourite time of the year. She still insisted on a stocking (we never had the heart to disillusion her about the existence of Father Christmas), and would still wake up early on Christmas day.

jeee, were you very close to your sister? In any case, we have really special relationships with our siblings, in some ways our growing up with them makes us how we are now. Please allow yourself to grieve. She sounds like a fabulous person, what an inspiration. You sound very pyoud of her, and so you should be.

MAS, how long ago did your brother die? So young too, how heart-breaking. I can really identify with the missing what he would've been, I think I said it before. He had so much potential, such a waste. Do you get on well with your other brother? Do you talk about it a lot?

I guess we're all probably feeling funny about Christmas. For many it's time to spend with family. And we all have chunks missing from ours. I'm dreading it too, jeee xx

evansmummy - my brother died 37 years ago,which is a very long time ago (I am old !!) and in a way it makes me feel a bit of a fraud because it is such a very long time and others are suffering much more recent losses which seem so much more intense. I think I get on well with my younger brother -as you get older the gap shortens but we never really talk about R - neither do my parents - perhaps it is still too difficult..we do of course speak about him on his birthday/anniversary..my dad always gives my mum flowers on the anniversary but we don't talk as much as perhaps we should.

My DS1 lost his twin brother 26 years ago and his little brother 16 years ago. You are not a fraud sweetheart. The flowers from Dad to Mum sound wonderful. Older grief is more gentle but it can still jump up and bite your bum.xxx

Ditto what Shabs says MaryAnn, I do know what you mean though. We have had longer to learn how to cope and live with our loss.

I bet you can remember how you felt in the early stages though dont you ? You can remember the intensity of your emotions and the roller coaster you were on.

Shabs, as for you and your bottom biting

thank you both shabster and Vagina (hey,we live near each other don't we !) - you are right older grief is more gentle..I think at the time that he died I buried my feelings because I really didn't want to acknowledge that anything like this could have happened to my family - I couldn't bear to be thought of as different- to be regarded as 'different' and maybe scary by my friends (I keenly remember feeling this about a girl in my class who lost 2 brothers to muscular dystrophy when we were at primary school-it frightened me)
Also,I am quite strict with myself and tend to do the,'ok,you've been through that,now leave it alone' type of thing with myself.
Huge hugs and love to all of you here who have lost precious siblings - am sure they are watching over us - I always ask R to look after us,esp my ds

A few of you have written to me too after I posted about my brother. He was 34, died last month. Lots of you already know the story from my other threads. He was also a musician and also lived more life in 34 year than most of us will in 80. Right now I still feel numb, and afraid that I am not grieving 'properly'. But this morning I cried so much that the snot fell out of my nose (sorry for being so graphic, but I'm sure you can all relate).

Reading your stories helps, but I am also so horrified at the amount of grief that people have to bear. HOW do you carry on?

MaryAnnSingleton.... me or Shabs with regards to location ? You have chosen to deal with your feelings in that way an it works for you. What we all do, how much we do or dont cry, talk about or not talk about is a personal choice and we all find the right balance for us as individuals.

Don't beat yourself up over any of it, there are no books on what is the right or wrong thing. I think MN is the best thing for me, I can remain anonymous while still pouring my heart out.

I have a few good friends in RL that I can re-visit grief with, but here you can have one of those "Bite on the bum" moments and get a virtual hug, cup ot tea and cake in seconds. You can talk what you think is a load of twaddle, but somebody always seems to understand and validate your feelings.

MissM.......hello

HOW do you carry on ???? Million dollar question isn't it ?! I dont know how we carry on, but somehow we do. Some people simply cannot, I could have just as easily have been one of those people, but for whatever reason I am still here, being a pain in Shabsters arse !!!

jeee, I'm so sorry about your sister, what a fantastic achievement to have gotten a place in the Olympics, I know your sister could not take part, but she was credit to you all.

Mary, just looked at your profile. Your DS is absolutely without question a gorgeous, handsome, delicious boy.........

Vagina - I live nr you (on the Winchester thread) - thanks for kind words about dealing with grief and esp. for saying nice things about my boy
Jeee - just read your post about your sister ( skipped into the middle of this thread a bit in order to talk about my brother without seeing what others were writing) for your loss but how proud you must be of her xxx

V - you can be a pain in my arse any time you want.

Last night I babysat my first grandchild. He looks so like his daddy and his daddys twin brother. I spent all night running up and down the stairs and making sure my 5 month old baby grandson had not stopped breathing!!! WHY???? His daddys twin brother died at 7 months with congenital heart problems and his uncle Matt died at 7 yrs old because a lorry reversed over him.

It sounds so over dramatic and pathetic but it happened.

I cannot imagine what it feels like to loose your sibling. I really cannot.

oh shabster

I'd be the same...
I've posted a picture of brother R on my profile...he was nearly nine and we were riding in Spain...he had a ponyskin belt on and Spanish riding boots which we both were bought that holiday - we'd never ridden before but were on a massive horse ! He has a profile v much like ds,similar nose,delicate features.

Oh my word he is like your DS - I remember looking at your profile many months ago and think I remarked on how handsome your DS is.

Your DS is soooo much like your DB. Do you take comfort from this Mary ?

I know it's avoidable isn't it because of genetics, I'm not sure how I would feel if my DS was like my DB. I do see similaritys however and I find them amusing, they make me smile and bring a tear to my eye.

Both of them have such a strong jaw line too.

God - such weird timing to come across this thread today. I have just come back from the hospital where my father is in intensive care after having a brain aneurysm and not expected to live.

I have such mixed feelings about him dying as he has severe Alzheimer's and, tbh, the person who is my dad, died a long time ago and just a shell remains.

But he has been through so much - an Auschwitz survivor who lost his parents and younger sister, and who years later, had to go through the pain of losing a child - my younger sister - to a heroin overdose. One thing to be thankful for recently, is that he had forgotten all the pain he has ever been through ...

There was only 18 months between Nicky and myself and she was my best friend as well as my sister and even though she died nearly 10 years ago, I still miss her so much.

My greatest regret is that she never met my twins - and they will never know her.

IMO, you never really get over the death of a loved one, you just live through it and thankfully, the pain lessens as time goes on

Hello again evansmummy and cyteen and hi to all the others.

VaginaShmer.... - so sorry about John, you obviously loved him very much; pushki - hope you can come and share later on. Jeee - my condolences on your sister's death; she sounded amazing. And MaryAnnSingleton - sorry about your brother, I'll think of him on the 15th (my DD's birthday).

Miss M, sorry about your brother, I know what you mean about that feeling of not 'grieving properly' - that's how my DH felt about his sister, but I think there's no 'proper way' - grief seems to be as individual as we all are in our own ways. kdk - I'm sorry about Nicky and your father's illness.

Shabster - I think we've talked before (am a fellow City fan!), but I've not said how much I admire you and the other mums, like frasersmummy. You are inspirational (and your boys are all beautiful). I came across your thread and it's changed how I am with people. The woman on the supermarket checkout recently mentioned she'd only had one day off sick in years - for her granddaughter's funeral. Instead of mumbling something anodyne, I asked what her granddaughter's name was and we had a conversation about her. She said 'I am surprised dear, people are normally too embarrassed to ask about her!'. So thanks.

Sorry for essay - hope you are all doing ok tonight.

xx

Have had a bad weekend. Took the kids out today to a National Trust place, beautiful, lovely weather, all very ideal family Sunday. Then by coincidence one of the volunteers turned out to be the mum of someone my brothers were at school with. They weren't friends, but it was a village, so most people haven't moved on. When I told her my name she said, 'And how are DB1 and DB2?' I had to say 'Well, sadly DB2 died last month'. She was clearly very embarrassed and rattled off something about my other brother and what was he up to. It was bloody awful. DH had to drive home as I was too shaky and had the biggest headache imaginable. I still feel shaky and tearful now.

I kept dreaming about him as a child last night. It's so weird - I've had no dreams of him as an adult, but I dream of him as a child. Why?

kdk - so sorry about your dad and for the loss of your sister..sometimes it seems so truly unfair how some families seem to have to suffer so much loss,shabster and her family for example..I remember a family we knew losing one child and then another and finding it unbelievable that after suffering one such terrible loss that fate or God or whoever couldn't possibly allow it to happen again

The OldestCat - thank you for thinking of my brother on 15th,that is sweet.
MissM - A hug to you xxx - I took a few years of knowing my now best friend before I could admit to having a brother who had died - it wasn't that I was denying his existence or anything,it's just that I find it so hard to deal with other people's reactions/embarrassment/pity - I hate peopple to feel uncomfortable and not know what to say.
The OldestCat did the best thing in talking to the lady in the supermarket though - I'd like to think that I could do that..

VaginaS - yes, it is a comfort in a way that there are likenesses...it's as if a bit of R is there in my boy- I wondr if my parents see that ? It used to scare me too that something would happen to ds at same age as my db, but I feel better now he is older than db.

Oldestcat - thank you so much for your kind words, Im sat here with a lump in my throat. Im so proud that you asked the lady about her grand daughter - that would have meant so much to her.

Thank you again.....and yes I remember you, us City fans have to stick together

Hey all. Sorry for long absence. The weekend is the worst time fo me to get on the PC, dh hogs it .

Reading everyone's words has brought a tear to my eye again. I hate that anyone has to go through this amount of pain. But having somewhere to come and share it gives me a bit of strength.

For those of you have come a long way on this journey, do you still cry for your lost siblings? I can't bear the thought of not crying for my brother as it seems so unfair. Yesterday was the first day since Jonny died that I didn't cry at all. I feel so guilty today.

kdk and MissM, hi! Thank you for coming over and sharing your stories with us. Such sadness.

TheOldestCat, what a perfect reaction to the supermarket situation. I hate that most people in RL ignore what's happened, like it's not really there if they don't mention it. There's such a taboo about death and grieving in the country that makes me feel embarrassed about crying, or feeling down. Pr at least makes me think I need to hide it away, when I really don't want to! MissM, I feel for you having to go through that with the lady you met. I haven't really had anyone to tell, my parents know everyone in our village so everyone knew almost immediately, like within a day. Thinking about that first day is making me cry. It's so painful to remember.

I'm now making up for not crying yesterday...

hi evansmummy...no,I don't cry about R but I do cry at other things, Remembrance day, hearing Two Little Boys on the radio this morning for example.. and I sobbed uncontrollably at FILs funeral in August - it's displacement crying possibly

Sitting at work crying and wishing I could go home. I feel so lonely.

evansmummy...have a hug xxx

Thanks, Mary, just what I needed.

How much I dislike my job now! I have literally done about 10 minutes work since getting here at 815. Just want to go. NOW!

Have a hug from me too - really feel for you evansmummy

I still haven't got round to posting my story about my brother - but you may know me from some of the other threads - I will get some time soon hopefully.....

I felt terrible back at work after my brother's death - eventually saw a counseller in occupational health, and came to the conclusion that I needed to have a bit of a break. Luckily we could afford it - DH very supportive - and I cut down to one day a week. Remember when I made that decision (about 8 months after) |I felt so relieved that it was the right thing to do - my job is in health care and I was losing my empathy for people!! One example I remember was the week after the funeral, one lady complaining that her appointment had had to be rearranged, she wouldn't let it go so I ended up blurting out to her - "well I'm sorry I wasn't in but I was burying my brother!!"

Is there anyone at work you can talk to, be flexible with your hours, take any time off? It's really difficult isn't it?

Big Hug

pushki, thanks for the support. I am already having one day off a week (I only work pt), and they were reluctant about that. I asked for it in September and wanted to stay off til after Christmas and they said no, only for 2 months. I have two weeks left of my reduced hours then supposed to be going back. Not happy about that.

But I made the decision last week to leave. I am really unhappy here since Jonny died, just can't get a feel for things anymore. So have decided to go and finish mu degree zith the OU. Started years ago at Liverpool, then fell in love and married, and left my studies on hold. Feel it's a good time to start someting new, and do something fulfilling for myself.

Just can't decide if I should stay at work til course starts in feb, or stop now. I know what I feel like doing, but probably not financially wise. I really do hate it here.

sounds like the OU thing will be great - as you say a bit of a change, do something for yourself I think is really important. Don't envy you the decision of when to go - bloomin credit crunch not the best time is it? but if you can stretch it and have a few weeks off before Feb - go for it if that's what you really feel like doing.

I've just found this thread and would like to say thank you, Evansmummy, for starting it.

There have been many times since my dear sister died that I have so nearly turned to mumsnet for support, but have never quite been able to or known how to start. So, if I may, I'd like to join your thread.

I don't have time to really go into details now - I've already spent over and hour reading through this thread and do not want to risk crying with in front of my dds - but in brief...

My younger sister died 3 1/2 years ago, suddendly and unexpectedly, while we were on holiday together with our families, in France. The complications of being abroad and the death being unexplained meant that it was sometime before we could bring her home, longer still before we knew why she had died and even longer before we could give her a funeral.

She left behind a dh and 3 dcs, the youngest only 11 months old .

She was so very dear to me and I still miss her so much that it really does hurt .

My heart felt sympathy goes to all of you who have lost a brother or sister or in-law.

Nemna - welcome and sympathies to you for the loss of your sister xxx

Have come back to you guys. Nemna - I feel so sad for you and your sister's family. Evansmummy am also feeling guilty cos I've not cried for two days now. I went to see a play which was brilliant and all I could think was how much my brother would have loved it, and how I couldn't wait to phone him and tell him he MUST see it. We used to recommend stuff to one another all the time, or go and see things together. But I couldn't cry. Why not? Today I've just got on with stuff and seem to have hardly thought of him (but of course I never stop thinking about him).

I'm going back to work after my maternity leave ends on Monday. I'm really anxious, really not sure how it'll be. My manager rang today for the first time after I told him three weeks ago and didn't mention it at all. It's like it never happened. Do people think it will go away if they don't talk about it? Just a 'how are you, I'm so sorry to hear what happened' would do.

Welcome Nemna, I am so sorry to hear that you've lost your sister It sounds like a terrible situation. Do you feel in any way that you've attained some grasp on it all now? By which I mean, it must have been very hard to make sense of it all due to the circumstances you describe (not that there's ever much sense to be made, but ykwim). I can only imagine that confusion over what happened would make the whole process of trying to grieve more difficult

Sorry to hear that people are struggling with work too. My work were very supportive after Simon died, but I still struggled. If I'm honest, I never settled in that job as I started it one week after learning that his cancer was terminal; I could never give my all to the job as I had other things on my mind. After he died I had 5 weeks off, then ended up crashing a few months after returning and having to take another month off.

Funny you should mention returning to study, EM, as that's what I ended up doing. The second time I was signed off I had a good long think about my life and why I was so unhappy (apart from the obvious!) and decided that life is too short to keep putting off the things you want to do. I also felt very strongly that I could not and would not just step back into my old life as if nothing had happened - you know, back to work, back to routine, blah blah blah - it felt profoundly disrespectful and I suspect contributed to my poor mental state.

Luckily for me DP was (as always) fantastically supportive and said he was happy for me to go part time so that I could start my MA...it was an adjustment, but a good one. Then I got pregnant anyway and am now on maternity leave from work and study

MissM, wishing you lots of strength for your first day back. People are probably just really confused and unsure of how to handle it. They will take their cues from you - if they see you are happy to talk about it and want it 'out in the open', as it were, they will hopefully start to relax a bit.

Nemna, you're very welcome to join us, though, again, I wish you didn't have to . I'm very sorry for your loss. Are you close, physically and emotionally, to her dh and your nieces/nephews?

I thought people would be good at work, but even though I think I made it obvious that I wanted to talk about it, a meeting with my boss a couple of weeks after I went back revealed that she was uncomfortable with the deep emotions I had to express in talking about it. Since which, I've kept it under wraps. I can't even talk to her now, she hurt my feelings so much that day. Most other people haven't mentioned it at all. Of a team of 25 people, who are all aware, four have mentioned it once, three allow me to speak about it more often, and the rest haven't said anything at all. It does feel like they're pretending it isn't there, though really I know it's just that they don't know what to say. Doesn't help though.

MissM, I hope it goes ok for you. And if it doesn't, please don't be afraid to ask for more time. You need to do this right.

cyteen, I def feel like that re work and routine. I am not the same person and I feel like a square peg in a round hole going back to the same job. I'm looking forward to being able to leave and start something afresh. And I know Jonny would be proud.

Thank you all for your welcome and your sympathy.

cyteen - the whole muddle of the situation certainly delayed the start of proper grieving, not just for me but for all those very close to her - particularly her dh, myself and my elder sister. The path of grief has not been smooth, (although I doubt it is for many), but yes, I have moved along and have a better grasp on things.

EM - Sorry to hear that you're having a difficult time at work. You should not put up with being miserable at work, especially with your grief being so new and raw. IME losing my sister really put a different light on things such as work and you should go with your instinct (if practicalities allow).

I used to live quite close to my dbil, but unfortunately my dh's work has meant we had to move further away at the beginning of last year - more than 100 miles now. We stay as close as we can, but both my elder sister and I feel sure that we remind dbil so much of his dw that he finds it quite difficult. My sister was always very keen that all our dcs - 'the cousins' - should be as close as possible (probably because we did not have any cousins, both my parents being only children) so we do our best, despite the physical distance between us (my elder sister lives even further away) and the age range (7 dcs, aged 15 down to 2).

I feel for my dbil more than anyone. I fear that he really has not had the time to grieve properly.

I think it's so hard for anyone who has children, to grieve properly. Some people find it a blessing to have children in these times, but, if I'm honest, I've found it hard. I even resent sometimes, ahving a ds and dh, because it means that I can't be by myself. I often have to think of someone else first. How selfish is that?!

I'm glad you try to keep in touch with your bil, though that can't be easy for any of you. He would probably feel worse though if there wasn't any contact! I'm in contact quite a bit with my brother's closest friends, which is the farthest he got in terms of relationships, unfortunately. I find it comforting. They have a 'piece' of my brother that I don't, a part of his life that I don't know much about. They fill in the gaps, and it's like having a part of him around still.

How is everyone else today?

thinking today of R - 3 September 1961 - 15 Novembr 1971
never,ever forgotten xxxxx

Thinking of you and your brother today Mary Ann xx

thank you evansmummy,that means a lot xxx

Really sad for you for Saturday MAS. We had DS's first birthday party, just family, plus DB's wife. It was a very lovely day but the sadness has really hit me now. Me and my other brother went for a walk this morning, talked a lot and cried. Words don't do justice to how I feel, how much I want him to be here. I can't make any sense of it. Me and my brother, SIL, husband lit a candle and all cried last night and I felt like if we allowed ourselves to we might never stop

oh MissM - your last line was so poignant huge hugs to you

Why does this have to happen? why is it so bloody awful? I don't even know who will come out of the other side of this. How do people carry on living?

you will survive this though it is very hard - I feel for all of you who have lost their brother or sister more recently than me - you knew them for longer and shared so much that to have them snatched away is very cruel and very painful - time and distance has healed my loss,of course I miss him and wish that we we still a complete family. That is certainly not to underestimate or belittle the grief and pain of someone who lost their sibling or child many years ago - it's just that in my experience it is muffled and not so raw.

MissM, i had those exact same thoughts in the immediate aftermath of my brother's death. unfortunately i don't have much of a positive answer, as i seem to have just gone numb where my feelings about that are concerned.

In fact I have been working up the courage to ring Cruse and ask for some bereavement counselling, something I've never been able to do in all the years since I lost my mum. The impact that had on me is so profound that it's only now I'm starting to realise how much I do need help to unravel it all and how many things in my life need resolving.

I will try and ring them today.

cyteen, definitely go for it. It has been so helpful for me. I started very shortly after Jonny died, and I'm still going. Does help to put some order to the chaos that reigns in my head at the moment.

MissM, I feel for you. I remember, like cyteen, thinking the same thing - that the tears would never stop. I remember such desperation. What can I do but say I'm here for you, and thinking very much of you. How do you feel about getting some counselling?

MAS, you are hope that living with a bereavement is possible. And that proof that living with it doesn't mean forgetting and I think we all need to have both the proof and the hope. Stick around, please.

Coming up in a few weeks is our 6 month mark. Jonny isn't even buried yet

Cyteen I think you're very brave. I was thinking about counselling last night (also had my first proper dream about my brother - can't understand why it's taken this long). Not sure I'm ready for it yet, although I haven't ruled it out at some point. Sometimes I see no future whatsoever and can only hold on to my children at those moments.

Evansmummy I can't believe you haven't been able to have a funeral yet. It helped, although perhaps more in retrospect than at the time - at the time it just felt unreal, like we were at someone else's funeral. I really feel for you.

Oh MissM, we had a funeral. But we've decided to wait for some organs to come back from the inquest before burying him. So we, as yet, don't have a 'place' to go. Also means there'll be an interment (he was cremated, and the rest will be when we get it) at some point, so another hard thing on the horizon. That, along with an inquest and a court case. Seems to be dragging along...

Also, I haven't dreamed at all of my brother. I wish I would

Hi to all of you who have also lost siblings particularly those whose losses are recent.

When my sister died nearly 10 years ago, it was like an insurmountable mountain that stopped me in my tracks. I moved back home with my parents, gave up my (very stressful) job, started rereading books that comforted me in childhood.

Now it is like that mountain of grief has been smoothed by time. It is still there - and sometimes it can still cause me much pain particularly at certain times of the year but the pain is not so raw, not so immediate.

I believe we never get over the loss of a loved one, just get through it to a place where the pain is less and the ache fades a bit.

Remember, this too will pass

'Remember, this too will pass ' kdk - that is a saying that I really like and tell myself a lot, it's immensly comforting on all sorts of of occassions. Am very sorry for the loss of your sister too.

My eldest son (now 26) has just become a first time daddy. His partner has had severe PND which has been a massive worry for all of us, and has really affected my son. Now he has made an appointment with his counsellor to go back to see him again. He was 7 months old when his twin brother died and 10 when his 7yr old brother was killed. His little boy is reminding him so much of his brothers that it is un-nerving him.

Time does heal, but sometimes older grief can bite you right on the bum. I hope you all find some peace with your awful losses.

Well, we are a slow lot, aren't we?! Or is it just that busyness takes over...

Haven't had much of a chance to reflect over the last week. My folks are back on Weds (they moved to france about 3 months ago), and I've been very occupied trying to get the house sorted for their return. As a consequence, I've been unable really to think about Jonny. I feel guilty.

Went to see Sigur Ros on Friday, and even though it isn't a band he particularly liked, I thought a lot about him when I was there. Jonny was a big gig-goer, and I used to be, so it was inevitable that I think of him. It felt sad to know that he won't be doing that again. I feel that I want to make up for that, esp as he and my other brother went to a lot of gigs together. So me and my other brother are going to a gig on Thurs. I just hope I don't get drunk and cry!

Also breaking the news to my work on Weds about resigning. Feeling very nervous, and hoping they'll be understanding.

How is everyone?

evansmummy - yep we certainly are slooooowwww! I haven't been able to revisit this thread for a while and of course I am doing it quickly now when I really need to be getting