to ask why if you disapprove of porn

(132 Posts)
katekong Wed 04-Jun-14 13:27:16

Besides the moral implications that many people in the porn industry are used/scared/mistreated/on drugs. If you disapprove of porn in a relationship, why so?

I'm on my third long-term relationship where I've discovered that my dp has a secret prolific porn habit. I've said at the beginning of each relationship that porn is ok as long as everyone's open and honest. Yet all three have kept it secret which makes it wrong and seedy in my opinion. Iccan't describe why it feels so wrong succinctly, so was hoping others could help me to articulate my feelings. If you disapprove of its use (separately) in relationships, why so? If not, why not?

FatalCabbage Wed 04-Jun-14 13:32:36

Well for me the exploitation within production issue is the main issue. I have zero problem with erotic literature, for example.

But if DH were using porn behind my back it would be a bit like going out for dinner and then not eating tea I'd made.

calculatorsatdawn Wed 04-Jun-14 13:41:12

I have the same attitude to either of us having a tommy tank as I do clipping toenails or picking noses. We both do it but our relative methods and preferred aids for accomplishing the task are our own business.

Vivacia Wed 04-Jun-14 13:44:03

*Well for me the exploitation within production issue is the main issue. I have zero problem with erotic literature, for example."

This represents my position too.

Because of the widespread abuse and exploitation of women in the industry I have problems with the ethics of people who provide the demand.

Finally, I am convinced by the evidence that shows the availability of increasingly hardcore porn is damaging our young people.

PrincessBabyCat Wed 04-Jun-14 13:44:41

I don't particularly care if DH uses it as long as it doesn't get in the way of our sex life. Which it doesn't.

Sometimes we use it to get new ideas to try.

...and then realize that porn sex is not always real sex. grin

But it does help keep things spicy in the bedroom instead of doing the same tricks over and over.

Andrewofgg Wed 04-Jun-14 13:47:50

Erotic literature is the porn of the educated classes, isn't it?

Vivacia How would you feel about pictorial porn using only pseudophotographs so that no live woman (or indeed man) was cocnerned?

calculatorsatdawn Wed 04-Jun-14 13:49:31

Finally, I am convinced by the evidence that shows the availability of increasingly hardcore porn is damaging our young people.

unliklely source for an interesting 'documentary' but recently Tyger Drew-Honey (the oldest of the kids from Outnumbered) did a programme about teenagers and porn for BBC3 and it was really very interesting. Both his parents were in the porn industry and his attitude is very different to the people he speaks to. If you can stand to watch it I think it illustrates your point nicely and is really very good (despite being aimed at the yoofs)

Vivacia Wed 04-Jun-14 13:49:47

I'm often surprised by two things I read on MN.

1) "I'm fine with porn, but am gutted my husband has used a prostitute".

2) "I know women are exploited and injured making porn but it spices up my sex life so I don't care".

BertieBotts Wed 04-Jun-14 13:49:48

I have more of a moral problem with the production of porn than I do with people using it, whether in a relationship or not.

But, it's not just the fact that the "actors" are potentially mistreated/vulnerable, I just find that a lot of porn tends to display really openly misogynistic/abusive/horrible sex and I'd feel a bit uncomfortable knowing that got him off. That would bother me.

Maybe the secrecy makes it feel like cheating? The lying is a bit upsetting especially if you've specifically said "as long as it's open and honest it's okay". It's not open and honest, so it's not okay!

Some people are upset because they feel it's like their partner looking at other girls - contrary to popular belief it's not "uptight" or "insecure" to feel like this, it's a perfectly valid opinion. There's a lot of bollocks talked about this one, like "he isn't comparing you so stop worrying that he is" - well maybe some men do and some men don't, but if it's upsetting you, you still have a right to be upset.

TheUnburnt Wed 04-Jun-14 13:52:09

I agree with FatalCabbage and "Vivacia*. Also personally I see it as cheating. If you're getting off to someone else then you won't be getting off to me again that's for sure. It would make me question a partner's character if they continued to use porn after I'd explained the realities of women being coerced and forced into it. If they were still able to get off on it I wonder what type of person they really were.

I think erotic literature is different, there are no real people involved it's all imagination. I have no problems with partners have there own fantasies and reading erotic fiction. What goes on in their own heads is their business, it's when it spills over into porn use that I don't agree with it.

Vivacia Wed 04-Jun-14 13:52:16

Andrew I think that there's a strong argument for increased regulation of the porn industry including classification certificates, protection for those involved and a "kite mark" for ethics.

BertieBotts Wed 04-Jun-14 13:52:41

with the idea of people using it, anyway, that should read. Obviously people using it is creating a demand so sort of chicken and egg. But in theory I don't have any objection to porn - if we could be sure that it was coercion free, abuse free, exploitation free, and wasn't so misogynistic.

unrealhousewife Wed 04-Jun-14 13:53:07

Apart from the exploitation issues, porn use within a relationship is a kind of betrayal, it is also lazy, the fun is finding your partners pleasure and keeping it interesting, porn is serving it up on a plate.

Real sex is better for your health too.

Excessive porn use can indicate addiction, which is never a good thing.

Davsmum Wed 04-Jun-14 13:54:15

I don't think it is my place to 'disapprove' of porn in other peoples relationships. Personally I have never felt the need to watch porn and do not particularly like it.
It does concern me that young people can so easily access porn on line and the damage that can do to their perception of sexual relationships and I am also not comfortable when porn uses women purely as sex objects.
I was more likely to watch porn when I was younger and curious - but not now.

I think some people may do it in secret and even secret from their partners because they are embarrassed to admit it.

FatalCabbage Wed 04-Jun-14 13:54:30

Erotic drawings as in the Kama Sutra, for instance? Don't bother me.

The issue of normalizing unusual sexual behaviour (no comment as to depravity, just frequency) is terrifying though. Teenagers thinking every sexual encounter needs to involve multiple penetration, perhaps.

Brummiegirl15 Wed 04-Jun-14 13:54:37

I admit that I have enjoyed porn and enjoy erotic literature.

But this was prior to DP because I was single for a loooonnng time.

I have no problems with us using it together as a bit if spice but I would be upset if he was using it without my knowledge.

He knows I have it stashed away (from my prior life) as he has moved in with me whilst the mortgage on our house goes through. But he isn't bothered as we don't use it and he trusts me not to use it behind his back.

It's the lying and secrecy and I would be upset with

Vivacia Wed 04-Jun-14 13:57:11

Brummie have you watched the Stephen Walker documentary "Hardcore"?

BabyMonkeyBrains Wed 04-Jun-14 13:58:37

I have issues with porn for a few reasons.

1) i noticed my partner had been watching after just 1 night away from home! I don't know why but it made me feel like complete crap. was i not enough for him? am i the wrong shape/size? are my boobs to small? thighs to wide? i tore my appearane apart peice by peice. I dress up in the bedroom, dirty talk, rope, blindfolds you name it we have probably done it so the only possible reason i could think of for him watching it was i must just not be sexy enough.

looking back it was silly of me to think that way, he was simply in a hotel alone and bored and needed a little visual aid to help him along with his tommy tank. nothing more.

2) i watched a documentary called 'date my pornstar' it was on channel 4. A couple of porn obbsessed guys got to meet their favorite porn stars and was educated about the ins and outs of the porn business. the programme made my partner and i feel sick to our stomachs. once the pornstars have finished their full day shagging on a live show they have to bang the producer and staff before going home. and the only reason they could complete the show anyway was because they had taken so many drugs beforehand just to make the pain bearable.

needless to say my partner feels thouroughly ashamed for ever watching porn in the past. his words not mine.

www.channel4.com/programmes/date-my-porn-star

Ledkr Wed 04-Jun-14 13:58:56

As a mother I am sad that part of the sexual education/discussion that I have with my dd will need to include explaining that a lot of porn sex is not the norm and she does not need to partake of anything she is uncomfortable with just because she's asked to.
Yes in talking about anal, group sex etc.

BertieBotts Wed 04-Jun-14 14:01:37

The problem with regulation is it's expensive. So the companies (who could be based anywhere in the world, so hard to police) producing non-regulated porn will be able to produce it more cheaply, and people would go for that. They don't care now about ethics, they just want what's free and easily accessible.

I think it's just too far gone to save. Total ban is the only way forward, perhaps with strict regulations to let it come back in a few years later. It's not like porn is an essential and it's not a major economic player in business, as I understand it, nor does it generate tax revenue.

But anyway this is getting a bit off topic blush

kentishgirl Wed 04-Jun-14 14:01:44

I have enjoyed porn in the past, but now, no.

As well as the issue of exploitation of the women, much of it is so very nasty these days. It shows abusive sex as normal, and the women faking enjoying it. I was really aghast at the last lot I saw, women being choked, gagging, vomiting, anal everything, roughness, double and triple penetration, lots of force and abusiveness being acted out (or for real, I don't know). I don't like this type of sex being normalised for idiots.

There was a thread on here recently by a young woman who had gone right off sex and thought it was her fault. Her previous partner had been forcing rough oral sex on her, with her gagging and choking, and saying that proper bjs include full penetration by the whole penis. Those of us who are older and wiser leapt in to say that this is NOT normal oral sex, but to her partner, and to her, this was how it was 'supposed' to be and there was something wrong with her because she didn't enjoy it. That's a porn message being learned.

almondcakes Wed 04-Jun-14 14:03:31

Erotic literature is not the porn of the educated classes, as erotic literature is widely available across the Internet, written in a wide variety of different ways with different audiences in mind.

Erotic literature is not equivalent to porn as erotic literature can be anything from a single sex scene with no plot to something the length of Great Expectations with a highly complex plot (or simple and popular like the Da Vinci code) and 98% of it being non sexual. The sex scenes can then fit into a general character or plot development and have a meaning beyond just sex because they are in a wider story. In that sense, erotic fiction is like life - it contains the sexual and non sexual as part of a whole experience of being human. That goes for drawings as well as writing.

The same is not true of porn, which is almost always just about sexually objectifying those involved. Because it is very difficult to show any kind of real plot or characterisation, it is mostly going to be very boring unless it involves quick fixes like objectification, violence and aggression, which it usually does.

Porn separates the sexual from the non sexual. Porn users tend to defend themselves by saying, 'well, I wouldn't do XYZ in real life. This is separate from real life.' But it is real life actually, if it has real people in it. And the compartmentalisation is what I find disturbing about it. I find the Jekyll Hyde element of someone's personality worrying.

BabyMonkeyBrains Wed 04-Jun-14 14:04:41

fatal

^ Teenagers thinking every sexual encounter needs to involve multiple penetration, perhaps.^

years ago i did a college course where i was the only girl in the entire building. one of the guys was explaing to us at lunch that he is going to break up with his girlfriend for 'faking it' during sex. he explainded that she insisted she had got an orgasm but he didn't beleive her because she didn't squirt.

he generally thought that ALL woman squirted a 2meter high fountain when having an orgasm.

ThaneOfScunthorpe Wed 04-Jun-14 14:05:33

I don't watch it because I don't like the idea that I could be getting off on non-consensual sex.

BabyMonkeyBrains Wed 04-Jun-14 14:07:41

I just remembered isn't their a new thing internet providers are bringing out about actually having to physically opt in/ register to be able to access porn via your internet connection. If you dont opt in you cannot access it.

I'm not sure how true that is but its something i have heard a few times.

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