ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.

That it's not 'his' money!

(242 Posts)
NameChangeAnon Thu 08-May-14 13:32:55

I've NC as I know a couple of MNetters in RL (though they already know my DH has his moments, especially with money related matters)

Just on the phone talking to DH and mentioned that I've found a reasonably priced masters degree, distance learning, in my interest area. It will be £4k over 2 years for part time. I'd like to start in 2015 as a goal.

I am currently a SAHM with 2DC, one YR and the other has another year before starting school. This was a choice we made, to have a SAHP until school age. We were both career changing so it could have been him, but he loved the first job he got and it's been going great for 3 years.

Every now and then he seems to have moments where 'he' is the earner and it is 'his' money. He said that he was not going to pay for my masters as it's not necessarily going towards me earning more in a job and is therefore hobby money while it's not necessarily going towards a job it might later I keep getting comments about returning to my old career (where I could get a reasonable salary from the first job) rather than being able to continue my own career change plans.

I was also, at this point, dealing with a potty training toddler, holding a wad of toilet paper in my other hand and getting DC2 to put on underwear. Is it my imagination but am I not also working and therefore entitled to a say in the family money? To be fair he wants to use the money I'm talking about to pay off the mortgage early and I agree with this goal, but I do not agree that he gets to dictate without discussion. He tried a sarcastic 'Do I get £2k a year to do my hobby?' and I said yes so he backtracked to his priority being the mortgage and how unreasonable I was to do anything else but focus on our security.

I really just need a bit of a vent. He's a good DH except he gets stupid wankerish twitchy about money and we're renovating the house at the moment and money is hemorrhaging out of our accounts although we are still perfectly on budget. Perhaps I mistimed the discussion as I knew I'd find prat-with-money-DH coming out this summer of spending.

Also I suppose AIBU to want to do a masters with no specific work related goal at this point? It's in the field I would like to work in, but I wouldn't get a career boost for having it IYSWIM.

BuggersMuddle Tue 13-May-14 21:54:44

Absolutely HoVis

I expected DP to step up when my work changed to 3-4x per month travel. He did, but he then expected me to either go for the next step (same travel more money) or look for an alternative with more money. That was fair given where I was in my career, so I did.

I have to accept that some of DP's work does not make money and I earn a good deal more money. I deal with it. But we balance it off, particularly given I am the main earner and have the capacity to be such. So he gets a by for his volunteering for his professional body, but his non-professional volunteering is accorded the same status as my spin class (e.g. something he wants to do).

HoVis2001 Tue 13-May-14 21:15:24

BuggersMuddle - absolutely! If one partner has less time then it seems reasonable for the other partner to do more to ensure that no one partner becomes unequally knackered. But sometimes you can be working equal hours but be earning a lot less.

I guess it struck a chord because currently DH and I are pursuing the same career, which has pretty much equal (and ill-defined) demands in terms of time at each stage, but he's currently "one step ahead" and this gap would certainly widen if I took time off to look after children in the future. But come next year, once he's earning 3 x more than I am now but literally catching the same bus in and the same bus out of work as I am, I would be absolutely appalled if he started to imply I ought to do more of the housework, or spend less on my own pursuits, to 'make up' for the shortfall.

This sudden divergence in our income is a very new development for us (previously I was earning more as he was between jobs), and this thread has really hit a tender spot I didn't know I have about earning and personal worth. I'm not sure DH entirely understands why I'm suddenly angsty about an astronomical (for us) increase in our income. But he's reassured me he doesn't expect me to do any more washing up than I usually do. grin

BuggersMuddle Tue 13-May-14 21:00:46

HoVis This has been discussed in our relationship where I earn more. My job changed and I travelled a lot. The agreement was that either:

- DP picked up more when I was travelling
- We got a cleaner

or I explored changing jobs. As it happened, it suited me to change jobs and we profited from it while keeping the travel down. Nowadays DP and I work similar hours, but unless there's a real issue (deadline, 90 hour weeks, weekend working) then I think we should just give and take.

christinarossetti Tue 13-May-14 20:55:17

I agree hovis. I don't know if some posters actually believe and live like that, or if it's OP's writing ambition that is getting their backs up.

fancyanotherfez Tue 13-May-14 20:53:11

I work a term time only contract. With school aged children, this is ideal. If OP was working in Sainsburys she would be forking out for holiday childcare x 2 which by me is £50 a day. The prep is a nightmare for me but I have a toddler so it's difficult for me to mark and prep. On another point, unrelated, I will never work permanently for an FE college again. 17 years nearly broke me. TTO all the way.

HoVis2001 Tue 13-May-14 20:40:12

Sorry - keep having extra thoughts - wish MN had an edit function!

By 'complex', I mean, you put in more to a relationship than your monthly income or hours spent caring for children / home. You put in love, affection, emotional support for one another etc. If, say, my DH was earning twice as much as me on the same number of hours, I would still expect us to share housework equally. But some of the comments here seem to have suggested that you ought to somehow have to 'make up' for being the lower earner in a partnership. And life is messy in other ways - people get ill and simply need more help at times, and then one partner ends up earning less whilst the other has to take on more to make up for it. But it would be a real shame if couples kept account books of how much their partner 'owes' them in time, effort, and money....

HoVis2001 Tue 13-May-14 20:36:23

(R.e. signing up to the C&G teaching pathway!)

It never seemed to be that your OP was about finances in the strict economic sense (i.e. "can we afford this") - and more about how healthy finances ought to be shared within a partnership ("am I unreasonable to want support from my partner in spending this money").

This thread has made me, even as a bystander, feel quite bemused and distressed, so well done for sticking with it. It seems to me that a lot of the comments are reducing marriage/partnerships to a mathematical equation of what you put in financially (or in childcare). But isn't it much more complex than that? At the end of the day, the thing you're in a partnership for is the love and companionship of the other human being, right? And the rest, in an ideal circumstance, should be contributing according to your means, and receiving according to your needs.

HoVis2001 Tue 13-May-14 20:31:26

Good for you, OP. smile

NameChangeAnon Tue 13-May-14 20:26:35

What about term time contracts or do they not exist in your world either?

I have insurance, I have the teaching materials.

And not caring about the finances? RTFT and you'll know that's not the case.

Laquitar Tue 13-May-14 20:19:13

No. The person who works in a shop for nmw and she works all year around (not half year) will bring home more than you over a year.

You also forget that you only get paid for the hours yiu teach. Not for preparation and planning. So the 20 per hour is actually 10-15 per hour.
You might also need material to buy, insurance, membership.

But i am wasting my time because you dont care about the finances anyway.

NameChangeAnon Tue 13-May-14 20:10:57

It calculates against zero hour contracts. 6.50 x 3 = 19.50 err 20 and hour is 3 times nmw.

I already pay NI anyway.

I already don't get sick pay as a SAHP. And that's the risk of self employment, as is the holiday pay thing. Are we suggesting that self employment should be banned?

Laquitar Tue 13-May-14 19:55:34

It is not 3 times nmw though.

You will have long unpaid holidays.
You will pay your own NI.
You wont get sick pay.

You don't calculate it the right way i 'm afraid.

Infinity8 Tue 13-May-14 17:55:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolishpeach Tue 13-May-14 17:54:56

I think you should go for it OP - hold him to his end of the bargain. Good luck with your course. smile

christinarossetti Tue 13-May-14 17:33:17

Good for you, OP

Hope that this thread is spurring you on.

NameChangeAnon Tue 13-May-14 16:57:55

Threads moved on I see.

My other hobbies are knitting and crochet (and writing) btw. It takes a while to get through yarn so I think that's another cost effective hobby. So far this year I've made the 2DC and DH a toy each (DH's is sci-fi related) and each a blanket for winter evenings and a Woolly Hugs blanket.

DH and I both agreed to a career change each. As we decided this as we started TTC it was agreed that I would be the SAHP unless I had the greater earning potential in which case he would be the SAHP. He got what he is still describing as the perfect job and our full time earning potentials are at the moment similar, if i returned to old career. I was at the top of my career and he's now towards the bottom of his potential. He wants to see how far he can take his career while retaining a work life balance.

ChelsyHandy I don't want to work in the writing/publishing industry necessarily so that's why I'm referring to it as a hobby. However I am a flitterer by nature and I'm doing fairly well with this approach to life so I can't say I won't be using this degree in the future. I'm using an old hobby (started 2004) to think about my next earning strand. Part time work is because I will remain a part time SAHP doing school runs, weekends and holiday cover.

So part time SAHP, part time work and the study in the evenings when DH is away, to happen after September 2015 when DC2 starts school. Of course it's a boredom project; I watch a few hours TV a week and have 50% of evenings to myself after the DC are in bed. That's why the part time thing. If I had £6k, plus travel and childcare expenses there's a pretty good uni with a highly recognised CW masters program 30 mins by train from where I live. But without promise of an earning from that it's not being considered.

I'm enjoying the talk of pin money. Earning £20+ an hour for a couple of hours teaching is 3 times the minimum wage. So 4 hours a week is 12 hours of min wage earning (someone up thread suggested I could earn something useful in a supermarket). Not bad for next year while I'm still technically a SAHP.

Anyway today I have applied to take the next stage in the C&G teaching pathway starting in September.

Infinity8 Tue 13-May-14 16:06:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Infinity8 Tue 13-May-14 16:03:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

redskyatnight Tue 13-May-14 15:14:17

Infinity she did say he likes gadgets but not how much he spends on them. She also doesn't mention how much she spends herself on "fun" stuff.

If we are considering whether DH will change jobs and do more at home, perhaps we also ought to consider whether OP could become the sole breadwinner while DH is a SAHP? It's as equally valid.

The issue here has never been about working or not working anyway. It's about whether one person should have more say than the other when it comes to spending the family money. I'd argue that they shouldn't (and so actually would most posters on this thread it seems). But as DH and OP both want to spend money on different things, who gets to decide? Why is what OP wants more valid than what DH wants? Why is what DH wants more valid than what OP wants? EVeryone will have their personal view. The key thing is that both things are properly discussed and given consideration. Perhaps it would be fair to say that 2K could come off the mortgage and OP could pay 2K towards her MA and aim to increase the family income sufficiently to pay off the other 2K?

ChelsyHandy Tue 13-May-14 15:13:59

Its not your money either though OP!

Unless its a highly vocational Masters e.g. teacher training, IT conversion, etc., I'm afraid I see it as a bit of a vanity or boredom project. Or you could have an internship lined up or contacts in the industry if you were that interested right now. And why do it part-time, if its distance learning?

You already have a degree. What is to stop you getting a good job through experience gained in the workplace?

And if its that cheap (4k for a Masters is quite cheap), surely you can save 2k yourself between now and 2015 by doing a small amount of part-time work spaced between your SAHM duties? Even if you only earned £65 a week between now and it starting, you would still earn enough to pay the whole £4000 in one go, without even having to work during your part-time course.

christinarossetti Tue 13-May-14 15:01:43

Dunno where OP is in this thread now.

Maybe she's started her MA! (fingers crossed!)

I'm similarly shocked at the belittling of OP's ambitions and right to be treated as an equal partner on this thread.

Is it The creative writing thong that is getting peoples' backs up so,much?

Infinity8 Tue 13-May-14 14:59:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Infinity8 Tue 13-May-14 14:37:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

redskyatnight Tue 13-May-14 14:34:40

Unless I've missed it, OP hasn't said how much she and her DH already spend on their hobbies.

She's mentioned him buying an iPad and a laptop, but the stuff in the garage was an old hobby that he used to do.

Equally how much does OP already spend on current hobbies, things just for her etc?

OP has clearly said that she is happy with the current situation (and that DH got a pay increase with his new job, which is potentially responsible for her even being able to think of spending 4K). So all the speculation about him not being prepared to give it up and pull his weight are a bit ridiculous really.

Swannery Tue 13-May-14 14:18:01

He should respect the fact that she will have more day to day responsibility towards the children, and that this may affect the work available to her, so that she is likely to earn less than him. But that doesn't mean accepting the extreme position of her earning, at best, pin money (and paying £4K upfront for the privilege), because she wants to do something that she has chosen solely because it is fun.

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