To get wound up about MN and sleep advice(387 Posts)
I love MN and will often come on to get advice...can normally count on it for sensible pointers for everything except for sleep.
AIBU to wonder why noone on MN seems to want their children to sleep through the night? I no of noone in RL who co-sleeps - but everyone on MN seems to? And people seem to think it's entorely normal for a 8 month old baby to wake repeatedly through the night.
I just don't get it. So much valuable advice...yet everyone on here seems to go madly soft when it comes to sleep.
Am I the only one?
I'm really trying to be nice here, but accusing some of the parents of the non sleepers in this thread of being in a self-congratulation fest, when some of the parents of sleepers have explicitly said they are better parents is oh I don't know I'm too tired
What on earth is wrong with you people?
You have understood nothing from my post. Don't let that stop your bitchy self-congratulation fest, though.
Thank you Pudding and Highlander
Just read Cote's reply and would like to redirect my biscuit / give out another one!
No decent parent would use CC or CIO on a baby with reflux.
Even the so called baby sleep 'experts' who tout CC and CIO as the best thing since sliced bread don't advocate its use on babies/children who are ill or teething or funnily enough, those who are 'adopted and/or have abandonment issues'.
So enough with the sarky shite eh.
Cote, what's your point? That because spagbol chooses not to do CC she can't (correctly) suggest Panda was in need of a for her posts?!
There's some logic missing there! Are you sleep deprived??
The biscuit is a bit premature then, isn't it?
Does that include leaving your baby to cry for a bit, or not?
Lol Cote clearly not. I spend anll my time trying to get my DD to sleep but apparently this is not sufficient compared to Panda, megrim et al
You clearly haven't been on many AIBU threads
Biitchiest comment EVER on Mnet gors to Panda
Love mother of a strict, well read, hardworking UNLUCKY mother of a reflux baby.
And it's not usually laziness that stops people from sleep training. I was very sleep deprived for several years but didn't sleep train my children. The reason wasn't that I was to lazy to bother or that I led a chaotic life and didn't want the routine. Actually, I am pretty keen on calm bedtime (and mealtime and after school etc.) routines.
But leaving my babies to cry felt utterly wrong, instinctively and morally. I have spoken to friends who sleep trained their babies successfully and they don't seem to have felt this way. They talk about the grizzling and angry cries, but my children called me back with the sort of distressed cry that filled me with the adrenaline I would need to smash windows and break down doors to rescue and comfort them. I am not prepared to ignore that sort of cry of need for the sake of my own comfort.
When other parents day that they aren't prepared to let their babies cry, I assume that they experience a similar level of distress.
I can ignore a toddler tantrum without trouble but a baby in distress is a while different thing.
a quarter of babies have not slept regularly between 10 and 6 by 12 months so while "most" babies may well be sleeping through by 8 months, there are certainly lots and lots and lots who are not.
DS1 was one of those who just didn't sleep (still doesn't, but aged 4 he will stay in bed til his clock goes green - at 6am - about 90 mins after he wakes up). DS2, with a very similar routine, was sleeping through by 7 months ish.
DS1, we tried practically everything - CIO was the only thing I refused. CC took a lot of persuasion by DH. I stuck it for 3 fucking weeks. That was 3 weeks of him scramming between 1am and 3 am constantly. Without CC, he would babble in his cot in the dark if I was in the room (dozing in the chair, so long as my fingers were through the cot bars). DH slept through most of the screaming.
To those of you who are struggling with sleep atm, it WILL get better. Ignore those who tell you your doing something wrong. Unless your going in, putting all the lights on and getting them dressed at 2am, before telling them its time to go back to sleep, I'm sure your trying your best.
To those of you who, through luck of skill, have had sleepers, please don't underestimate the emotions in those of us who "aren't trying hard enough to get our babies to sleep" when DS1 was 18 months, you'd have had me in tears re sleep.
DS1 didn't sleep through until a year apart from a brief teaser just before the four month growth spurt. DS2 is 10m and still waking for a feed. I've found it much easier this time as I accept that there isn't a golden rule that he must sleep through after 6 months and coping with reduced sleep is much easier without a feeling of being socially wrong. One feed nights are perfectly tolerable. He wakes, I feed for 40 mins or so, he dozes off and it's fairly civilised. Between two babies and two rounds of pregnancy insomnia I've got used to the sleep I get and it's at the better end of the scale. It'll take me alot longer to relearn to sleep through than it will take for him. It could be much worse (and was with DS1 although allergies are suspected of interfering in that department)
I just think that actually it's NOT a natural thing to expect a baby to sleep through. Perhaps it is desirable - but I think that most of the sources outside of MN seem to push that it is desirable, that it is THE way to get sleep, that having babies who wake in the night is an awful, stressful thing. That parents who don't sleep train are creating a monster. And while of course it can be stressful and difficult to have a baby who needs you in the night, I just don't see that forcing something unnatural is the only or, indeed, the best solution. And I really despise all of the scaremongering of "Oh he'll be in your bed when he's 12!" No - it's perfectly possible to do what works now and change it when it no longer works for you (just don't expect immediate results, as with anything).
I reckon if you understand that it's not natural for babies to sleep through, but you would rather eliminate the night wakings using techniques such as sleep training than manage them in a different way, then fair enough but please understand that there are some of us who don't want to do this, who are happy to manage night wakings in a different way, and that there's also nothing wrong with that.
I do think there should be advice on all options but with the clinch being that NOTHING works for ALL families and instead of the focus being "make your child sleep through ASAP whatever it takes" "make night wakings as unobtrusive as possible for everyone". Which of course might mean eliminating them. But I don't think it's the easiest or the best path, for a lot of people.
I think it is possible to help babies sleep better but it requires consistency and probably some crying (yours and babies) however a lot of mnetters will not consider any form of cc or sleep arrangements other than co-sleeping.
I don't consider myself smug, my dd wasn't a great sleeper by any stretch but I believe things like routine, self settling and putting her to bed in her own bed helped. This is what I will advise to other mntters who are struggling as this is what helped me <shrug>
Those of you congratulating yourselves on having sleepers: bully for you, but it's more likely to be just luck. Those of you whose babies don't sleep through (like mine)- it's not your fault and don't let smug judgemental types like the OP and many others on this thread make you think otherwise.
It is completely normal for 8 month old to wake during the night. If you think it isn't, you're wrong. It's that simple, Gina Ford.
What's the point in trying to make people feel bad about themselves? There isn't a fucking set of rules which make a baby sleep if you're not 'too soft' to follow them. That's ridiculous. All babies are different.
yanbu at all!!
I think this all the time
If you dare mention cc or God forbid putting a baby to bed in a cot you are almost immediately pelted with rotten mn eggs
To pp. It is possible to go back to work and have a baby who wakes in the night you know? Although I realise there are certain jobs where this might be more difficult than others. I wouldn't fancy conducting serious brain surgery on my sleep record.
OP, your post made me feel really shit about myself so thanks for that.
I would love my baby to sleep through. She just fucking doesn't alright? Jesus.
Pudding, one might suggest that you are trying hard - you are trying to meet your baby's needs.
Luis. You were not rude. You were honest
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