To ask you all what the fuck I am supposed to do now with non-sleeping 2yr old

[lecce]

About two weeks ago I posted here about the possibility of leaving my 2.6yr old to cry it out because I can't stand him fussing, bfing and lying bang on top of me all night anymore. I work f/t, on my last legs etc etc.

People were mainly against the idea (as was I, hence the post) but in fact, when I sort of tried it 1 week ago, after 10/15 mins of crying, ds started asking for a toy, I went in and gave it, he snuggled back down. I was ecstatic - had expected hours of hysterical crying.

The first three nights, he did this several times but with the spaces between the wakings extending every night. At no point did he even ask for bf, never mind get one. Great, I thought, we're getting there. The 4th night he slept from 7-4.30 am and then again from 4.40-6am. He has never slept more than 6 hours at a time before and usually only lasts 2/3 so I was so happy.

That was the end of our short-lived success. Since that night, his wakings are more frequent and his crying more fervent. His requests for toys have become ridiculous and he is asking for them just to finds ways to stop me from leaving. However many he has, he asks for more and cries when I try to leave the room - earlier in the week I was leaving with him awake and sleepy with no problems. He is waking every 2 hours and I am spending up to an hour in his room each time. The crying is so loud that I am amazed ds1, in the same room, hasn't woken.

I just don't know what to do. I do all the night-time stuff as dh has MS. In fact, he is well now and has offered to help but he's shit at it and last night got in bed with ds which, though it did give me some respite, is not really a step in the right direction.

Someone on here suggested a role-play thingy which we have done tonight. I also got him to choose a set of bedtime snugglies, showing him that he has the same amount and type as ds1 as he looks up to him. When I tried to put him to bed about 45 mins ago he started asking for a toy dino (only ones we have are hard). He's only doing it as a delay tactic and I want to dsicourage him from asking for random stuff all night so I said no, you've chosen your bedtime toys, here they are etc.

Since then he has been crying hysterically and shouting that he wants a dino. I have been in a couple of times (dh out) and he just gets louder when I go in. I feel so angry with him now . I know that's a terrible thing to say and I don't mean I feel like hurting him but I'm just so incredibly pissed off with this situation.

It's half-term (am a teacher) but I'm just going to feel absolutely shattered all week and then have to go back to work - still shattered. I've had enough. I just keep thinking that the best years of my life - with toddlers/young dc (love this age) are passing me by and I'm not enjoying them at all because I'm so tired all the time. I've been in a foul mood all weekend, snappy etc. We've done ok stuff but no craft etc I don't know, I just feel it's not good enough and all because I can't sort this sleeping business.

I'm sorry for writing so much, just needed to vent, though if anyone has a magic answer - great.

Thanks for reading.

Why are you spending an hour pandering to his tantrums?

Supernanny style put him to bed

One toy
If he wakes and gets up put him back silently. Dont speak, don't acknowledge just keep putting back silently and shutting the door.

I seen it on tv therefore it must always work

Have you done the 'no eye contact no talking' thing? That's the only thing that worked with DD when she used to play up. She still does every now and again and it's what we I do.

Be tough, be very tough - he has all the toys he needs. Can you move your other DS out of the room or is he still sleeping through?

I have frequently been flamed on MN for doing 'cc' on my very young baby, but I have never, ever experienced what you are going through so I repeat Be tough .

X-posts.

Must say we also tried the above supernanny method and it did work, it may take a week and you may have to put them back soooo many times and be patient but it did work.

Sounds really, really hard, sorry OP.

Sadly, agree with kayano that if you're going down the cry-it-out road you may need to toughen up, less negotiation / pandering / being in the room for hours, more ruthlessness etc.

Does your DH have suggestions about alternative approaches re sleep?

Don't worry about how you are in the day - going through all that at night no-one could be super mum in the day!

It will pass.

I went through a brief phase of this with DD. I didn't pander. It's not that I don't love her or want her to cry, but she needs and in fact eventually accepts and respects boundaries.

At 2.6 he IS manipulating you and you are allowing it. I agree, be firm. I explained that I expect her to sleep, that is what bed/night time, whatever is for, do this once at the beginning. Don't engage as much, he wants attention and he is getting it. Silence, lack of eye contact etc. Then leave. Try talking from outside the door, presumably if the insane wailing doesn't wake DS1 up, you talking won't either.

Good Luck!

I do the don't talk/make a fuss/take ages, go in the first time say 'its bedtime now', second time say 'bed', third (4th/5th/6th etc) go in say nothing put back in bed and leave. It's hard but it does work, I find the more I verbally engage with them the more cross I feel and become. The silent way is better for my sanity

Would grandparents be able and willing to help to take pressure off you? Could they mind him for a few days for you while you and dh and ds1 took a short break? They might find it easier to break this cycle of not sleeping on his own and you could pick up again from there

Sorry but, I'd shut the door and he'll sleep.

but maybe something someone hasnt suggested - take him swiming/the park anything with exercise and fresh air to tire him out.

I certainly wouldnt be pandering to 2 hours wake ups.

2.6 amd Bfing when you are fll time working? Again, I'll take the slating, but rod for your own back springs to mind.

Nothing that you probably haven't already read about, or had friends suggest. But just wanted to post to completely emphathise. Life is rubbish when you've had no sleep, and are too tired to do good stuff with them. Dig in. It won't last forever.

not an advocate of cc but you need to toughen up - Supernanny method works - try it- info here

I love Supernanny

I remember your post a few weeks ago. I have had this problem with 2 out of 3 ds's and had to do the crying it out thing, it was the only thing that worked. I picked a night when I knew nobody had to be up for anything and just let him cry it out, same when he woke during the night, I just went in, no eye contact and said in a very straight forward way, bed time now, I put him in bed and walked out. I must admit it did take a few nights but both of them where going to bed and sleeping on their own within a week. I will be hard but you will get through it. As your DH is well at the moment then it probably the best time to do it. Mine where both just under 3 when we did it and I must admit it was the best thing we did as nothing else would work.

Thank you for replies. He's asleep now as dh came in, went straight upstairs and gave him a sodding dino! Dh is being positive and saying how he's already come so far etc. It's annoying me more him being so upbeat .

I really do take on board what you're all saying about going in not speaking but a lot of these replies seem to be assuming that he's getting up and, for some reason, he doesn't - just lies there crying. so if I go in and don't speak, I don't really get what I would be doing as he doesn't need returning to bed.

Maybe I should just get up and say our nighttime phrase (very brief) from outside the door?

We turn to gps when dh is ill and we need them for childcare SO DON'T LIKE TO ASK THEM AT OTHER (sorry for Caps) times.

Yes, it is a miracle for which I am very grateful that ds1 sleeps through it all.

I did exactly what Generalunease did. DS2 was about the same age as your DS2. It was hard for the first night and I almost gave up several times. Night 2 I put him back to bed twice and night 3 he went straight to sleep.

I used to put DD back in bed, no light, no talking, I would sit for less than 5 mins with my hand on her cheek and stroke her forehead (temple?) with my thumb.
If she fussed I would say "No" quite sternly but nothing else.
I really think no talking at night.
Be there but don't be there IYSWIM.

Yes, I too think you are being too responsive. Be a very very boring, silent returner to bed as many times as it takes and ignore the loud tantrumming cries. It is so f-ing difficult though. I totally sympathise.

I would co-opt dh, if he's well enough at the moment.Give yourself a bit of a break Just make sure he knows that the strategy is no attention whatsoever and not getting into bed with the screamer!.

Have been there and can safely say IT SHALL PASS!

Say goodnight through the door, but try not to go in.

Sorry x posts. If he's not getting up then just leave him?

Only you can decide if CC is something you are comfortable with trying. It seems to provoke very strong opinions with people, and those who are against it will make you feel guilty for even considering it. But it's your child and only you know if you have tried everything else and want to give it a go.

I did it with one of my three, as it would just make him more and more cross when I went in and then left. My other two would be settled more easily and I never had to resort to it.

Hope you get some decent sleep tonight

I think you have enough on your plate. Very firm, lots of exercise, just like a puppy, let him chose two toys, let him have a small treat that he really loves every day, second story, tiny bag of haribos, game of card pairs - if he kicks off he doesn't get it. It's one of the big benefits of letting them have treats.
Like Trois (although this might not be the best time to stop it) at two and a half the bf needs to go. He's had the benefits.

We had one like this - you might find he still needs to get up either very early or needs to go down at the same time as you to get him through to past 6 or 7. We found the going to bed when we did resulted in 8ish hours of unbroken sleep which made up for the lack of grown up time. The consolation came at 16 when the sleep thief most blessed son brought us home 11 A*s. Still haven't totally forgiven the A .

It might sound terrible but doing something that means you can't actually hear the crying helps to reduce the stress in between the visits back to the bedroom. music, vacuuming, tv, sitting in the car ( assuming someone else is in the house!)

We went through exactly this and dh had to sit on me to stop me going up but he was proved right in the end. Sorry but you have to be tougher! Good luck, I know how bloody hard it is.

I think I'd do "controlled crying" if he's not getting up, actually. Go up after 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 mins etc (or whatever amount of mins suit you best) and say "shh sleeptime" then leave.

Ok, can understand that. Perhaps during half term you could try wearing him out during the day with targeted outdoor activities. Maybe that will help. Maybe he also treats night time as the time when he gets your undivided attention so maybe praise him more for when he's good throughout the day. But agree that at night time you need to be firm. It's so stressful for you at the moment and my heart goes out to you but you will resolve the sleep issue soon.