is there and 'official' feminist view on prostitution? and what is it?

(184 Posts)
ohnoitshimagain Fri 27-Dec-13 09:48:26

hi, just signed up and want to get to the bottom of this issue

ok, I'm sure there's not an official view as such, but how about a consensus or just your own personal view on this topic

1. Should prostitution be fully legalised including brothels?

I believe it should in the modern day, because of freedom

and I'm talking here about female prostitutes and male clients

hope to hear some responses, thanks, btw I"m a man

And the desperation mounts…hmm

grin

Feminists want to get rid of fornication and restrict sex to loving married couples? Think you are confusing us with the Christian Right. Easily done, we're both well into patriarchial religion and banning abortion.

No, wait ...

PenguinsEatSpinach Tue 11-Mar-14 14:50:47

Oh yes, silly little me. The myriad objections to prostitution are all about the fact that the couple aren't in love. That's the issue.

Christ on a bike.

LurcioLovesFrankie Tue 11-Mar-14 14:41:24

You do realise you're making yourself look completely ridiculous, right? Feminists object because of the element of financial coercion and objectification. We could not give a stuff about whether the two parties in a freely chosen casual one night stand are in love or not, so long as both parties want to be there and are enjoying the experience. Perhaps you are confusing feminism and religious fundamentalism? After all, you don't come across as terribly bright. Or perhaps you're choosing not to.

insuburbian Tue 11-Mar-14 14:37:24

I mean feminism in general. They dislike prostitution because the parties involved are not in love with each other. But the same can also be said for one night stands, so why not ban them?

LurcioLovesFrankie Tue 11-Mar-14 14:35:19

Funnily enough, nowhere in my post did I mention the word "love" - all I said was "enjoyable... with partners of their choosing". I guess you're not big on the female partner enjoying, or even choosing to have the experience. Which really tells me rather more about you and your deeply unpleasant attitudes towards women than it does about women in general or feminists in particular.

In misrepresenting my post the way you have, you're showing yourself to be either disingenuous, or thick as pigshit, or both... Hope that helps to clear things up for you.

insuburbian Tue 11-Mar-14 14:31:24

btw since when did you become the official spokesperson for "most women"?

insuburbian Tue 11-Mar-14 14:30:42

Feminists see sex as "special" that should only be done by people in love?

So don't you want one night stands illegal as well?

LurcioLovesFrankie Tue 11-Mar-14 14:22:44

Insuburbian - I can only assume from your last post that you have never actually had consensual, mutually enjoyable sex. What an absolutely ridiculous thing to post.

What most women want is to have enjoyable sex -whether casual or committed will depend on the individual and the circumstances - with partners of their choosing. Those are the crucial words - of their choosing. Flashing wads of cash at desperate women removes that option from them.

insuburbian Tue 11-Mar-14 14:06:03

feminists want prostitution illegal, along with fornification.

sex must be between a loving married couple. anything else is violence against women

ApocalypseThen Thu 02-Jan-14 08:40:27

(sorry) freedom debate (as our freedom-loving social science smart-arse seems to think), it's about whose interests, priorities and views prevail.

Regardless of how toxic, the view that women are sex vendors in one form or another (sale, barter or theft) is preferred.

ApocalypseThen Thu 02-Jan-14 08:37:51

Sadly, though, the prioritization of the views/interests/wants of the punterverse types continues, regardless of the consequences for women. This is because it's not just a straight up two way choice and freed

AskBasil Wed 01-Jan-14 23:30:45

Susyb I think you need to remember that not all men are rapists.

The sort of men who are punters are, but they are a minority (I hope).

Susyb30 Wed 01-Jan-14 23:26:17

Yes, men will always want sex..and if they aren't able to pay for it if they, in my opinion, could go to lengths that puts women in more danger. Having worked as an escort myself I was sometimes put in situations where I felt very vulnerable and I would definitely have felt safer if it was a controlled environment. Men from all walks of life, pilots, doctors ..you name it..from the man who's feeling lonely, horny, wife away,just had baby and not getting any (oh poor bastards)..believe me you would be shocked at who pays for sex. And yes some wierdos and men who would definitely go out their way to get the sex they crave. Im so glad im out of it now..I found it very degrading and at times I wanted to tell those pathetic men what I really thought of them..did they really think I was actually wanting to have sex with them? Ha.iv got a wonderful partner now and a Beautiful little boy. .but it has fucked my head up..apart from my partner I really do think the majority of men are sad bastards. .and sex obsessed. Its never going to go away..women have a right tobe safe, and protected..whatever they do.

DadWasHere Sun 29-Dec-13 22:34:13

Dad I think those women's views are also influenced by the constant message that men want sex all the time and are always up for it.

So in their minds, by paying a man to shag them they're doing him a favour - he would do it for free anyway, the thinking goes. (It's not thinking I agree with because I don't buy the myth that men are always up for sex - I don't think they would have been able to rule the world if they were such slaves to it - but that ridiculous attitude is extremely widespread and encouraged by a media which appears to believe that it's desirable for everyone to believe that men are more obsessed with sex than women are.)

Interesting stuff Basil but that was not my partners thinking at all, her thinking was that if you cant get good sexual satisfaction for free its morally OK and sexually satisfying to pay for an arousing and competent lover who, though otherwise uninterested in sex, could 'fuck you properly' (her words). What you talk about is a woman who chooses (like a proportion of men who frequent female prostitutes) to delude herself that their paid partner enjoys the act.

I am aware that women more commonly think men are always up for sex, I know that because I see messages from women around the net who express utter surprise bordering on incredulity when in an otherwise healthy relationship they discover their mans sexual drive is less than their own. However they are, as far as I can judge, significantly fewer than men who discover the same about their female partners. I think the thinking that men 'are always up for it' has a good basis in reality, if not that one particular man then, collectively, that next one in line will be 'up for it'.

Whereas men who are OK with paying for sex are having their ideas and attitudes shaped in a society which sends out very different messages about women. Women aren'tsupposedto enjoy sex, just gatekeep it. Except when theyaresupposed to enjoy it otherwise they're fridid. Or something. So the implications of them handing over money to a woman for sex, are different. Some men get positively turned on by the idea that the woman they are using actively dislikes what they're doing, while others kid themselves the women they use enjoy it because that fiction preserves their sense of themselves as decent men.

I wonder if the women you knew who were OK with the idea of buying sex for themselves, would be quite so keen on the idea if presented with the notion that they would probably be buying it from a young man who had been raped or sexually abused, was emotionally vulnerable and really didn't want to do it but was forcing himself to for the money. Not such a turn on for most women, while for many male punters, not such a problem?

Hrmmm. What you talk about goes to the darkest heart of prostitution, men who use women and dont care a damn what the woman feels or even pretends to feel, or even if she feels at all. Basically rape 'consent' obtained with money. Yes, I think men as a gender would be much more commonly inclined to 'use' a woman to that base level than visa-versa. How common that is within prostitution I don't know.

In general terms I think there is a different mind-trick going on women Vs me, if a male prostitute uses 'pornography in his head' during the sex to maintain an erection the erection itself to the female client can be seen as tangible and near undeniable proof of her sexual desirability and the mans enthusiastic compliance, in a far more effective way than all the fake moans and orgasms of a woman being used by a man.

Random passing thought- I think the idea of sex rejection between the genders is out of whack on both sides but in different ways. I think women take lack of desire for them more personally- 'its not that he does not desire, its that he does not desire me'. Men in the same situation seem to feel that their partner has just lost desire per se, they dont as commonly see it as attached to their desirability unless they feel they have lost the ability to perform intercourse. Or I could be off in thinking that.

WhentheRed Sun 29-Dec-13 22:25:46

The only way prostitution establishments could become legal employers is if the industry is exempted from equality legislation. I believe that occurred in one of the Australian states - a huge bubble zone where equality and protection from discrimination don't exist. How can that be a feminist result?

The health and safety issues are massive. At the political level, the issues will have to be addressed as to which department assumes responsibility; from whose budget does the initial set-up come; will extra funds be allocated or will already allocated funds be diverted; will the police lose a chunk of their budget when they don't have to deal with prostitution?

All of these considerations are massive and affect all of us. All of this work that we all have to do, all of money that has be spent on ensuring "safety" for women from both disease and male violence. All of this effort and suffering by women. All so that men can have orgasms.

KerryKatonasKhakis Sun 29-Dec-13 21:35:16

If prostitution is about "care" and helping men with their needs, that should be a job open to anyone. The patient does not get to choose the provider and male "caregivers" should not be refused. There should be no regard to the age, race, weight or other physical characteristics of the "caregiver".

Also, caregivers have health and safety regulations to cover absolutely every task they undertake, from gloves to how many people are required to lift a patient. They receive training on how to carry out the job safely. How do health and safety regulations work in prostitution? How many times can a woman be penetrated in a day without causing injury? How much numbing cream should a woman be permitted to use? How does wearing a condom prevent the transfer of fecal matter from the woman's anus to her urinary tract in anal-to-vaginal sex?

Excellent points Whenthe , especially about who performs the sex work. There is a shocking amount of racism and disablism in prostitution and pornography and there are no laws or rules against it...it's actively encouraged; fetishising Asian women for example.

I doubt sex workers could ever become legal employees because you wouldn't get past the HSE risk assessments or be able to conform with the Equality Act. They would all need to remain self employed, thus no maternity/sick pay/pension/subsidised healthcare/working hour restrictions etc...not much of an improvement.

Speaks volumes OP that you point out that men can't be prostitutes because women, in general, won't pay for it. Who said your clients need to be women? Yeah, you might be hetero but if it's just a job and just an hour by hour rent of your body, why not let a man use it? It's not about your pleasure or attraction (or do you really thing the women are attracted to their punters)...now doesn't that sound fucking grim.

TheDoctrineOfSanta Sun 29-Dec-13 20:23:25

I've only had one glass of wine!

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 29-Dec-13 20:12:58

Am not sure I am any the wiser smile

TheDoctrineOfSanta Sun 29-Dec-13 20:06:37

Gar shiny???

Harshing.

<which autocorrect this time tried to chane to hard hung fgrin>

TheDoctrineOfSanta Sun 29-Dec-13 20:05:46

Just a breaking talk guidelines one, AF. Possibly because it was a Fred about a Fred or possibly cos OP was gar shiny MNHQ's post Christmas mellow

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 29-Dec-13 19:55:04

Dunno, CB. I didn't see it. What was the reason for deletion given by HQ ?

CuntyBunty Sun 29-Dec-13 19:51:39

Is that why the other prostitution thread by the same OP was deleted?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 29-Dec-13 19:02:37

I believe he also used the medium of pm to offer his "healing services"

I am surprised my GP didn't suggest it when I went to see her about my hysterical tendencies fwink

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 29-Dec-13 19:01:17

T'was him fgrin

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now