Is the term 'Angry Fucking' potentially offensive to some women?

(237 Posts)
Ohsiena Wed 31-Oct-12 12:25:16

Ok I said I wouldn't start this, but I've been challenged to do so enough times, so I'm giving in.

It's about this thread - To think you should stay out of other people's bedrooms (378 Posts) 1This thread.

A very few of us understood why the term angry fucking was offensive to MrsC originally.

Most thought she had no sense of humour and just didn't get the joke.

Discussion was widened as a poster thught it was worse as used by a man. This has been attacked as sexist.

I stated on there that I'd like to see what some of the more feminist minded posters would make of this discussion.

I didn't want to start this, I've felt like a bit of a lone voice on there at times and need to do some RL stuff, but I've been called again and again to do so, so I have.

You'll see the phrase pearl clutching a lot....

Twibble Thu 08-Nov-12 17:33:11

I can't believe so much time is being wasted discussing this matter. In fact, it makes me Fucking Angry.

That is my contribution to this thread. I consider it to be quite witty.

No? Oh. Sorry. blush

EdsRedeemingQualities Fri 02-Nov-12 14:11:44

I don't know Pickled. There may have been an element of that but from what I could see, I thought that the OP of this thread started it here as there were very few people on the other one who were willing to accept that those offended may have a point, or a valid reason for being offended, and perhaps she thought that the people usually around in the feminist section might see straight away what she/I/the other people were getting at.

Because some of us were having difficulty explaining it in a way that convinced anyone - even that convinced ourselves (well I gave up in the end, I couldn't put my finger on it iyswim)

I'm glad it ended up being less inflamed than the other thread was at the point when I left it. (yes, before you say it, I got cross on it)

And the context that those words were posted on the other thread is also missing.

and the post (by a woman) preceding this comment

PickledFanjoCat Fri 02-Nov-12 14:04:58

A new thread yes, in the hopes of sparking a genuine discussion.

This was just copying the old thread over into feminism in the hopes of sparking a ruck in my opinion.

TinyDancingHoofer Fri 02-Nov-12 13:54:44

The anger doesn't have to be directed at your partner. Sometimes i have a shit day, and like to have an angry fuck.

sm the OP was told to start another thread

Flatbread Fri 02-Nov-12 13:29:14

i dont think angry fucking is violent at all i think it is just a more harder way of having sex if thats what u like ,and probably very passionate

Oh really? Isn't rape a form of angry fucking? While all 'angry fucking' may not be violent (if it is consensual), most sexual violence involves 'angry fucking'

scottishmummy Fri 02-Nov-12 13:17:33

traipsing words out of context,across threads into feminism to get a hoped for response
I can only imagine you thought you'd get a favorable response in feminism
this is really puerile

i dont think angry fucking is violent at all i think it is just a more harder way of having sex if thats what u like ,and probably very passionate .

Flatbread Fri 02-Nov-12 13:05:36

After-row-shagging is called make-up sex. And as Seinfeld said, it can be the best ever wink

Angry fuck, on the other hand, sounds like taking your anger out on someone through sex. It sounds like a form of punishment and comes across as controlling and aggressive.

OneMoreChap Fri 02-Nov-12 12:59:43

Flatbread thanks, that's one example.

You said "Tbh, I have never had a woman friend make a joke regarding angry fucking and double-teaming." Nor have I, but I've certainly seen jocular reference to angry/post-row shagging on here.

Is it only appropriate for women to talk about that?

Is it more appropriate for women to make sexual comments to men? That happens too...

Oddly enough re: complimenting another woman's breasts..., not all that many men I have heard make comments about each other's physique in any nice way - usually a bit of sledging.

Flatbread Fri 02-Nov-12 12:54:16

Chap, I know you asked Ed about boundaries, but I can give one example.

We have a friend who is gorgeous looking. Me, and my other girl friends compliment her, and have told her that she las lovely legs, nice breasts etc. One day, a male friend made a comment to her that he really liked her breasts. We all went silent and our gorgeous friend was offended and uncomfortable. The jerk's excuse was that we had told her that she had a lovely figure so often, so what was wrong with him making a similar comment?

You figure (pardon the pun). There is a difference between men and women making sexual or other sensitive comments that relate to the opposite sex.

Flatbread Fri 02-Nov-12 12:44:31

Chap, I am not saying women are prudes, far from it! I think there are loads of women who have an active sex life, and they enjoy variety, s&m, bondage and all sorts of things.

But this was not a thread about sexual proclivities, it was about boundaries. Women often talk about dildos and vibrators, but rarely make off-hand double-teaming or angry sex jokes. Or jokes about breasts or lesbians.

These are usually made by men. I think it is because women rarely think of other women in sexual terms the way men do. They think of themselves as sensual beings, but that doesn't translate into making inappropriate sexual comments about other women. We may think another woman looks 'hot', but is rarely followed by a thought ' oh I would like to do her', the way it is for many men. I know I am making generalisations, but I am struggling to explain the difference. I think at core it is that as women, we don't consider ourselves as sexual objects and many male sexual jokes tend to treat women as sexual objects.

This is going beyond the current thread. But on an instinctive level, I think that is why some women felt a bit put-off after reading some of the 'jokey' sexual comments.

OneMoreChap Fri 02-Nov-12 12:35:41

EdsRedeemingQualities

any post's worth considering smile

What do you think the boundaries are of the words - and jokes - men and women can use appropriately? Who sets these?

I can see that for those who believe in the patriarchal construct that women are the disadvantaged parties, so where are the boundaries set, and where ddo we share them?

[Try and avoid this is a space for women, as mostly everyone seems to accept it isn't]

EdsRedeemingQualities Fri 02-Nov-12 12:21:14

Women do use offensive terms, on here and elsewhere. If you look back you might find my post referring to the use of the word 'nigger' by black people and by white people. I won't say it all again but I don't know if that is a point worth considering...or not.

OneMoreChap Fri 02-Nov-12 12:12:46

Pretty sure I've seen women talking about simmering angry sex, and wasn't there an odd post from someone about their active.... life yesterday. Was that a bloke, as I sort of lost interest in it...?

I saw the thread in question and maybe it's because I used to be a comic nerd, but all I saw was "Don't make me angry.... and Lou Ferrigno".

Still, I'm unlikely to be triggered by anything like that.

Flatbread Fri 02-Nov-12 12:00:00

'Less than ideal' is different from the kind of jokes on that thread. Tbh, I have never had a woman friend make a joke regarding angry fucking and double-teaming. Nor have I seen these terms used in a jokey way in MN anywhere else, except by a male poster.

E.g., if I hear a lewd comment about a woman's breasts it is most likely a man making the comment. And it will be offensive. Poinless to compare a what-if scenario of a woman making a similar comment, because it probably wouldn't happen in that type of sexual manner.

PickledFanjoCat Fri 02-Nov-12 10:10:20

Indeedy doo.

FairiesWearPoppies Fri 02-Nov-12 09:53:51

Hmmm yes indeed

EdsRedeemingQualities Fri 02-Nov-12 09:53:08

Indeed Pickled...plenty.

PickledFanjoCat Fri 02-Nov-12 09:35:09

I think plenty of posters were behaving in a less than ideal fashion on that thread... You included ed!

Plenty of women behave in a less than ideal way on this site IMO.
Doesn't make me question the presence of women here.

EdsRedeemingQualities Fri 02-Nov-12 07:25:49

Hold on Mary! I said the first thing, but NOT the second. DEFINITELY not the second! Yes it made me question it. But just because one man might behave in a less than ideal way on a site like this, it doesn't mean they all do, and yes it was a sexist thing to say. Which I think I agreed you were right about at the time...but it was a feeling/thought I had and for some reason I wrote it down.
Hope that helps clarify.

Maryz Thu 01-Nov-12 20:55:38

Hold on Eds.

You have omitted to mention that the reason people objected to your post was that you said that you questioned the presence of men on Mumsnet and later said you felt they shouldn't be on a predominantly female site.

That was why many people got a tad irate.

EdsRedeemingQualities Thu 01-Nov-12 07:13:58

'However, you don't get to imply to other people that their choice of a word to describe a sexual activity means they are involved in a violent relationship or are themselves sexually violent.'

DID anyone imply that? No, I don't think they did. I certainly didn't intend to.

'that you turn a thread about someone else's perfectly valid dilemma into a big screamy waa waaa mememe I'm So Offended dustup, or try to, is wanky.'

Er - no again. One person mentioned that she found it uncomfortable. She was told to stop being silly. I came along and mentioned I agreed with her. The reaction to this was fairly strong, and it went from there. I didn't want to turn it into a thread about how offended I, or she was, but it became a big discussion because I responded, and she did, to points raised by others about how we were daft and shouldn't be offended, and so on. That's generally how discussions start.

There was far more extreme language from the 'other' side, there was shouting and swearing. I thought I was being calm and fairly rational though sometimes people read what they think people are saying, not what they are saying, or an overtone is misconstrued.

I had forgotten about the 'double teaming' comment. I don't know what that means but yes I assumed it was something related to porn, and didn't much like the sound of it. There you go - doesn't mean the person saying these things was himself involved in dubious sexual practices.

Or that he did anything particularly wrong. Just some of us felt uncomfortable about what he said. That is all, really.

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