Why is feminism seen as a bad thing by other women??

[ledkr]

Hi,I would describe myself as a feminist but have no majorly radical views and am not an activist,.However,i am a female parent of 2 females and I expect myself and them to be able to move through our lives free from prejudism and discrimination so am therefore a feminist. However often in rl and on some of the threads on here it seems that that is a bad thing.I dont understand,surely if you are a female or indeed an intelligent male then it should go without saying.

[JerichoStarQuilt]

Power structures that function covertly (ie., that we don't even notice because they're seen as 'just the way it is') are more effective than the ones that are open about what they're doing. The patriarchy is powerful and misogyny is an excellent way to exploit women (and lots of men, and children, too).

[ledkr]

But why would that explain why women dont like feminism??

[ReclaimingMyFuckingLife]

Many women want very badly to be attractive to men, and to them that means not being a threat to them in any way. Being a feminist means you might question a man's actions/motives and therefore are a threat.

[JerichoStarQuilt]

Sorry.

I mean, I think that there's a lot of pressure to believe there is no oppression of women - or at least, not very much ... not compared to [insert other group here], not compared to The Past ...

I think a lot of power and energy goes into preserving a belief that women aren't really very oppressed. And lots of powerful people and organizations have a vested interest in oppressing women (and therefore promoting a view that feminism is ridiculous and women aren't oppressed), because it makes money.

And there's the psychological trade-off - if you can convince yourself 'no, I'm not doing badly, everything is great, it must be lies that these bad things happen', that's sometimes easier than facing the truth. We all want to believe good things about the world so it's easier to make excuses and say no, it's not so bad, rather than getting angry or wanting to change.

[ledkr]

Blimey is it really that?? Id say what my dh finds most attractive about me is my independence and that i dont take any crap. Just dont get why anyone would think its ok in this day an age to treat the sexes any differently.

[solidgoldbrass]

Some women have been told all their lives that 'feminism' means they will have to stop washing themselves, leave their partners and should they give birth to sons, smother them or give them away.
Or they have been told that being a feminist means that Men Won't Like Them as though that's the worst thing in the world.

ALso, for some women who are aggressively opposed to feminism, there's an element of 'I have had to suck cock and make nice all my life to get what I have now, how dare you threaten it by laughing at men and telling me my sacrifices weren't necessary?'

[JerichoStarQuilt]

ledkr - see, men like your DH are what should be normal!

[ledkr]

Im surrounded by women who wait on men hand and foot.My Mum even thought my marriage break up was because i didnt do the normal wifely things,she also though i was stubborn and silly to kick him out when he cheated. My younger sister is a bit the same. Im always seen as a bit of a "black sheep" or trouble maker cos im not cowtowing to men. Shame really.

[sonicrainboom]

There has been merciless anti-feminism propaganda from day one. Women's uteri will shrink if they read! The suffragettes are manly and smoke!! Women's libbers are hairy lesbians!!! (=unattractive to men, the worst thing ever in patriarchy)

Being a feminist and speaking out means rocking the boat.
I used to be terrified of feminism, I was raised to be as nice and quiet as possible.

[ledkr]

SGB That makes so much sense to me.My Mum is a mens Martyr and thinks im a crap Mum and wife cos i dont wait on my dh or my sons who are grown up now and can even fend for themselves When i had bust ups with them about tidying their rooms or helping out around the house,i could tell my family thought "poor boys with a Mum like that"

[JerichoStarQuilt]

I think there's such a huge cultural expectation that women are meant to be nice, and generous, and great teamworkers - and that these are good qualities, that men would just love to be able to emulate if only they could, but they can't. So I think sometimes, being feminist is seen as kind of selfish and un-womanly, because really we ought to be being nice and generous and working as a team, not just working for ourselves.

I think that is where the argument that feminism is too specific comes in - people say we should all be 'equalists', or we should be as concerned about male victims of abuse as female ones, or whatever. It's not that those are bad concerns to have in themselves, but they get cited as reasons why women don't identify as feminists quite often, and I think often it comes back to this idea that women mustn't be selfish and focus just on women's concerns.

[northeastofeden]

I read on an anti-feminist site that all feminists are ugly man haters who smother babies and put them in the bin![shocked] Apparently we are also threatened by the hotness and availability of 18 year old sluts (not my choice of words), so we brainwash them into believing they shouldn't go out with old ugly men. [shocked][shocked]
I am a feminist, I am none of those things and have done/been none of those things, nor are any other feminists I know. But there has been a massive subversion of what it means to be a feminist by those with a vested interest in preserving the patriarchy. See extreme example above.
All it actually means (afaik) is political, social and economic equality for women. All women. Everywhere.

Agree it is a no brainer, we shouldn't be having to defend feminism as a concept or fight to make it a reality, but we do. That is vv sad.

[northeastofeden]

not [shocked] but you know what I mean.

[ledkr]

I think Im pretty though and wear make up (lots) and love clothes and wear heels, maybe thats why people dont get me.
To me its about being a woman and wanting to live a life not about making any big political point although im happy to do that if i need to.
I feel sorry for any woman who thinks its wrong to be a feminist. I really do.

[TinkerSailerSoldierSpy]

In my opinion, I think that some of the feminists just nit-pick at every little thing. Im all for equal treatment of women, but i dont understand why little girls can't like disney princess's and being girly.

[sonicrainboom]

Tinker Do you really think that is the argument feminist are making? Girls can't like pink princess stuff? Or maybe it is...the idea that girls are expected to like only pink princess stuff and care about their looks really early on?

[ecclesvet]

I think a lot of people, especially the young, have the misunderstanding that feminism is looking for female superiority, not equality. Like any rational person, they don't want either gender to be above the other, so they distance themselves from it.

[ginmakesitallok]

I also think there is a misunderstanding that feminism = man-hating (which despite some of the posts on the feminist board isn't the case at all)

[ledkr]

The problem is that its easy to hate men in general when you constantly have negative experiences,My Dad and 2 ex's are twats however my dh,brother and sons are lovely men. I dont hate men,i hate twatsish men.

[sonicrainboom]

The standard for what is seen as "man-hating" is very low, too. Simply criticizing misogynist behaviour or speaking out about it is seen as man-hating by some. Like, if you talk about male violence, there is bound to be someone who is offended because "all men are not violent!"

Or making fun of a guy who keep a tupperware twat in a shed :o

[ginmakesitallok]

e.g. (and this may or may not be totally relevant but please don't flame me!) I'm helping out with a collection for our local women's rape and sexual abuse centre. I was speaking to a male collegue about it. He told me that he'd wanted to donate some stuff to them in the past, had called them and was asked to call back when the manager was in. He did. He got a torrent of abuse from them. He was told that, as a man, he shouldn't be calling them because some of their call handlers were abuse victims and would be taumatised by speaking to a man. He was told that he couldn't donate, because he wouldn't be allowed access to the building to drop donation off. And then the phone was hung up on him. He is a very decent bloke, he's given me a load of stuff to take to them despite his experience, but he is very about the organisation and the cause.

Fact is that there are some women (who may or may not call themselves feminists) who DO believe that ALL men are potential rapists

[sonicrainboom]

So that man's feelings were hurt, and that shelter didn't do themselves any favour, but it's not as horrible as what the women in the shelter has gone through. They still need help. Feminism is till needed. Just because there are women out there who think like that (and as you say, may or may not call themselves feminists) shouldn't refrain anyone from becoming a feminist.

And in order to believe that all men are rapists you probably have gone through or witnessed a lot of terrible abuse. it's not right, but I can't get too worked up on an opressed group being angry and hateful towards the opressor group.

[ginmakesitallok]

Sonicrainboom - I agree with 99% of what you said, and in the context of the refuge what my colleague "suffered" in no way compares to what the women there have gone through. But I don't believe in an "oppressor group" - I don't believe that there is a male conspiracy against women. I believe that there has been a male conspiracy in the past which has shaped out present society - but that it is both men and women who enable the continuation of female oppression. Not all men are in the oppressing group.

[motherinferior]

Wot reclaiming said.

The thing is, if you've lived in a world where someone else cooks your tea and cleans your house and looks after your children and even more importantly tends to your every emotional need and you are generally assumed to be a Higher Class Of Being, it is going to be really quite threatening if some woman says 'hang on, buster, I'm just as capable as you and incidentally you can do the hoovering yourself'.

As a result, large numbers of blokes find feminism a Bit Hard To Cope With.