Dont know how to deal with DD15 attitude, phone use and curfews

[curlyhair500]

I dont know what to say really but I am really struggling with DD15. It seems a bit silly when I write it down but its mainly arguing over phone use and what time she has to be in and to some that might seem trivial. It is really getting me down as I am fed up with the atmosphere and feeling miserable. She is never off her phone. I caught her texting at 2.30 am the other week and this was on a school night. She can quite happily sit for 5 hours straight on the phone! She is always late for things and subsequently was missing her curfew resulting in more stress and arguments. Since Christmas she has had to be in at 10pm on school nights and 11/11.30 on weekends but she has only kept to these deadlines because I was going to pick her up. Otherwise I know she would be late.

She told us she does not care about anybody but herself and her close friends. I would like to think that this is just talk but I suspect that it is probably the truth and that is so sad. Trying to talk things through with her are a waste of time. I just get upset and get accused of pulling the "guilt" card. She tells me I should be grateful that she is not taking drugs or drinking or getting into other kinds of trouble and I am grateful for that but that does not make her attitude any easier to deal with. Taking away her phone, the curfews and grounding just dont seem to be working and I am tempted to just give in and let her do what she wants for an easy life.

I know that I am not the only one going through this but I would appreciate some advice. Hopefully it will pass but for now, what do I do?

[Number42]

Lots of sympathy and know exactly how you feel. It is sad to hear them say they don't care. For what it's worth my view is that that is sort of true day to day but not true deep deep down (eg do you think she would care if you were killed? Of course she would).

Am sure you will get many different views from posters here. In our case
our conclusion with dd14 was that a) we needed to focus on enforcing only what we thought was really important and let other issues go b) grab every chance we could for others (eg school) to be the bad cop. So for example, obsession with the phone was something we decided that, though we don't like it, we were going to let go of and not try to control, other than at meals when it is banned and we are absolutely prepared to have fights to enforce it.

As to curfews, have you read the much-recommended "Get out of my life, but first etc...." book? It's very interesting on teenagers half-breaking rules eg the curfew is home by 10 and they come in at 10.20. The book's contention is that the rule is still having an effect on their behaviour and in that sense is still "working". Obviously if they're back at 11 that's not OK. So we have some tolerance around curfew times. If she oversteps that time then we give one warning of "next time your phone goes away overnight" and then the next time the phone goes away. We found loss of phone was one of the few things she cared about.

As a general point, unless you're one of the lucky ones with a nice one, having a teenager seems to be about having to accept a bunch of things you disapprove of, dislike and never thought you would have to put up with!

[AmyElliotDunne]

I can't offer any words of wisdom, but sympathy and a hug as my DS (nearly 15) is very similar. Life is one long battle with him and I've got to the point where XH and I both say "this one's a write off, let's concentrate on the other two!" It's only partly a joke, I think we've realised that we can't change him or his attitude, but we can change the way we deal with it.

My DP is very supportive, his DDs are both younger and so he has all this to come! As such he is able to see things from an outside perspective, without the years of back-story that have exhausted me and XH.

One thing that has helped recently is to routinely try and start again from scratch, i.e. decide to forget 'you always...' and 'you never...' and 'based on past experience' and start from today.

For example yesterday he asked for money for clothes, my immediate reaction was "no, you had money for clothes a few weeks ago and you wasted it on unnecessary items". We had a row about it, he promised only to buy things he needed and to be more sensible etc and he ended up getting the money.

I could have saved us both some aggravation by saying "yes, provided you only spend it on t-shirts and don't spend more than £10 on each one" or something. Forget what happened last time and just specify what needs to happen this time. Otherwise he just gets defensive and we end up at loggerheads.

Similarly with giving lifts. Because I'm fed up with his attitude, when he asks for a lift I automatically say no and make him plead and beg until I get fed up with it and say yes, making him think I'm a bitch. If I just say yes (providing I'm free) then it's one less thing to argue about, he sees that I'm a nice person and when I ask him to help me hang up some washing etc he's slightly more cooperative.

[Number42]

Totally agree with you AmyElliottDunne and so recognise what you're talking about eg with lifts. It used to enrage me that dd asked for lifts after all the shit she gave us and I used to subject her to lectures which were utterly pointless but still do it. Now I just say either "Yes I can" or "No I can't because [I'm not free/traffic is crazy & bus will be quicker/some other practical reason]". Not sure if it makes her any more co-operative as per your ds but it certainly removes a source of pointless tension.
Used to be slightly freaked out by some of the more disciplinarian posters on MN ("of course you can limit their screen time/get them to stop being rude to you/get them to tidy up their room/etc - just keep on escalating the punishment until they comply; show em who's boss; get a grip") as they made me feel a failure, but have come to a place of thinking - well, good for them if they can make that work with their kids, but with my dd it just won't, and I make no apologies for that.

[curlyhair500]

Thank you your your comments. I feel like I am stuck in the middle here. My DH wants to take her phone from her every night and give it back in the morning but she is refusing this. DD suggested that the phone be turned off on a school night but that she should be allowed to use it on weekends and holidays so is refusing to hand it over and I am kind of leaning towards her point of view but I think this is because I want an easy life, and this is causing arguments between me and DH. I can see this escalating into a huge row tonight and she is going to end up in even more trouble and I just want to run away and hide.

[DeliciousMonster]

Is she paying for this phone herself?

[pinkbraces]

The rule in our house has always been no phones in the bedroom during school nights. Its always worked ok, apart from the odd row.

They are allowed to have them in their rooms during weekends and holidays unless it impacts on family life. Two of them are now at Uni and are probably surgically attached to the phone. Only the 15 yr old left.

[AmyElliotDunne]

Can you sit down and have a family meeting with her? Say that obviously none of you are happy with the arguments and that you need to come up with some ways to deal with things. Try getting her to suggest some compromises that she will be happy with. If she feels like she's part of the solution as well as the problem then she might be a bit more receptive?

Her suggestion about the phone seems fair to me, but perhaps you can fine-tune it to something that your DH is also happy with, or tie it into some sort of helpfulness so that at least you feel that you are getting some cooperation for allowing it her way?!

Number42 I agree, the people who say "try taking stuff away" have never met anyone as stubborn as my DS. I have literally taken his bmx, his phone, his laptop, his guitar and he will still say "it doesn't even bother me, I'll just watch TV" cue me confiscating TV remote and him saying it doesn't even bother him, he'll just sit and watch paint dry just to wind me up

[curlyhair500]

Hi. I am paying for her phone contract and I have threatened to cancel it and I think she would rather give it up overnight than not be able to use it at all. DH definitely wont change his mind about the phone and will not allow her to have it on a weekend overnight and says that it will never be given back to her. He cant see any reason why she needs to be on the phone after 11 pm but I can see both sides of the story. Meanwhile, DD has gone out in tears after a big blow up, I am sitting here in tears also and all over something so silly and straightforward as not using a phone after bedtime. This all seems to be made worse as her friends are allowed to stay out late and stay up all night on their phones. Are their parents not bothered or not aware of whats going on? I hate seeing her upset and just want to make things better. Sigh!

[curlyhair500]

And today she is grounded after another row last night. I am heartbroken. How can I get through to her?

[AmyElliotDunne]

It is so hard when you feel your relationship with your DC breaking down.

The biggest problem is that you and DH need to be on the same page with whatever you decide so perhaps your battles have to be with him first? You'll have to get him to sit down and spell out exactly what the problem is with the phone.

If it's a matter of not getting enough sleep etc then DD needs to agree that you won't be responsible for waking her up in the mornings if she's tired etc or if her grades suffer due to being too tired to work hard then things change.

DH needs to understand the huge social pressure not to be excluded at your DD's age. Missing out on group chats late at night might make her feel like an outsider among her friends. Perhaps a chat about that might help her too, try to get her to see that whatever she misses out on probably isn't life altering and that she can catch up in the morning.

I have to say, the fact that she's willing to compromise on giving it up on school nights shows a willingness on her part to do the right thing and your DH now needs to try and see that his stubbornness is only going to push her away. I've realised that by becoming my DS's 'enemy' I'm less likely to be able to influence him regarding the big decisions like drink/drugs/girls etc and that if he feels that I'm approachable and on his side, he might be more likely to open up about the bigger issues.

[curlyhair500]

The problem with the phone is that she is totally addicted to it. She spent almost 10 hours on it during the day last Sunday and then is on it during the night as well. Its just too much but she cant see this. DD is not going to listen to anything we say just now. We tried that last night and she wasnt having any of it. And DH is not going to back down either. They are two of a kind in that respect. I am afraid I am just going to have to ride it out and see what happens but I am not very hopeful. Its devastating to me that she seems to have no feelings for her family. Ds17 is totally different and just lovely.

[rinabean]

She's 15, it's good that she has friends. You don't let her stay out late (don't blame you at 15) so instead they all stay in together on their phones. Still hanging out but safe at home. She's not "addicted to her phone" she's having a laugh with her friends. She resents her family because they get into screaming matches with her because she is well adjusted and likeable, comes in early when her parents ask her to, isn't in any serious trouble at all but they still ground her. You use spending time with the family as a punishment!! That is what grounding + stay off your phone & talk to us is!

[curlyhair500]

The thing is that the problems with the phone and being late in all the time have been going on for years and Ive been too lenient with her but it has not worked. I very much doubt dh will be persuaded to relax the rules now but I will try. I really do want to just give in to her for an easy life.

[Number42]

When you say "on the phone for 10 hours", what do you mean? As in she was talking/communicating with people nonstop for 10 hours - really? Or do you mean using it to listen to music or watch films/TV/etc? Seems to me there's a big difference. Either way, I'm not sure it's right to think of it as being addicted to "the phone". It's just a means to an end - social interaction, or consuming content or whatever it is she's using it for. If there's an addiction, that's what the addiction is to, I would say - if it is an addiction.

But I would really want to ask - OK, so she was doing something on her phone for 10 hours straight. Why is that a problem? If the answer is - well, it means she doesn't do her schoolwork, then OK, tackle that. If it means she's short of sleep and therefore grumpier than she would otherwise be, then tackle that. But unless you really buy this stuff that looking at the phone has a physiological effect of rotting your brain (bear in mind that the same has been said about listening to jazz and reading romantic novels in the past....), I wouldn't focus on the phone per se.

And don't feel devastated that she has no feelings for her family. It would seem that she does, given that she was willing to give it up on school nights. My dd would NEVER have offered that in a million years.

[curlyhair500]

Thanks for your comments. I have a lot to think about and sort out. By the way, she is only willing to turn off the phone overnight on school nights, not prior to bedtime.

[YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually]

Banning her from using it, will mean that the time she has the phone, she will be on it constantly. A bit like people who never allow their child one taste of sugar, when they get their hands on it they go mad as they haven't learn self regulation, if that makes sense!

Phone use is something I don't limit in my house. I love my phone so it would be hypocritical but also, things are different from how I grew up, DC communicate differently and use technology differently.

Unless she is running up big bills, letting her have it and allowing her to find her own way is probably best. So she texts at 2.30am, what's the worst that can happen? She will be tired the next day, so? She will learn!

Teenagers know how to press your buttons, I know, it's hard. DH and I are always whispering to each other "pick your battles" and we are probably less strict than a lot of parents. Some of our DC have SN though, so that does help to focus the mind on what is a battle and what is just a mild annoyance

It seems very important to me reading this that you and your DH absolutely need to be united and for your dd to see this, so could you sit down with him first and agree what is worth fighting over and what can be let go?

[3teenageboys]

Let her keep her phone & turn off the internet. Peaceful once objections settled down. This had the bonus of DS' s older brothers having no connection , they told him he was out of order as they were being punished for his behaviour & he had to start being responsible. Which over time has worked more than me reasoning/ shouting/ being played.

This worked for us having been through exactly the same as OP. She's just a teenager. The best advice from Mumsnet that I got was:

1. Pick your fights
   
2. Step back so it becomes less of a major family issue
   
3. Be kind to yourself.
   
4. I always do lifts, I'd rather he was home, he can bring friends home after parties if he wants. I know he's safe.
   

It will pass she doesn't seem to be doing much wrong. In fact what I rapidly
realised by coming on mumsnet was that this level of behaviour isn't that bad when you realise problems other MN' s have.

I know it's like living in a permanent state of tension but as I always remind myself (words from a very wise 'MN ) it's difficult to live with a teenager but harder to live without one.

Big Hugs you are not alone x

[bigTillyMint]

Lots of good advice above.

Is she in Y10 or Y11? How is she doing in school - both academically and socially?

[MyballsareSandy]

Such a tricky age, I look at one of my 14 year olds sometimes and think I just don't recognise you these days. So sullen and rude unless she wants something. Very hurtful. She's also surgically attached to phone and iPad. Leaves them downstairs at night though, and I think that is only because we set that rule when she was much younger, would be hard to introduce it now.

I think your DD has agreed a compromise and your DH should accept this.

[curlyhair500]

I decided to let her keep her phone on non school nights and holidays and she has agreed to hand over the phone at 10pm shoolnights. DH is not happy about this though and feels that I have over ruled him. So its all on my head if it doesnt work out.

DD is in year 11 at school and doing ok but could be doing much better if she applied herself more but thats her decision and she will have to live with the consequences. I cant force her to study so I am not getting too wound up over this.

I know compared to others she isnt bad and I am trying to be positive. She did come home 10 minutes before her curfew last night which is great but I was a nervous wreck until she came in. Couldnt face another confrontation. I feel like I have had the week from hell. Does wonders for the diet though as Ive lost about 8lbs!

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

[bigTillyMint]

curly, I think that many of us could say that our DC could be doing better if applied themselves better

It sounds like she is a pretty good teen. They are trying to grow into adults and we have to give them space to do that - make their mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Learn to regulate their own behaviour. It's hard but we do have to step back a bit.

Sadly, I eat in times of worry and all other times Lucky you losing 9lbs!

[kittentwo]

We had a similar situation.with Youngest dd We had a long chat and in the end agreed that she would stop texting etc by midnight ( too late still in my opinion but that was my compromise ) or I would take her phone away at 1030 when I go to bed. We have similar curfew times to you in the week but fortunately don't have a problem. Also tbh she is right my older dd did do all those other things lying drinking etc so although it is an issue it could be worse good luck. It is not easy.

[YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually]

I think that's a good result. It also teaches teens a good lesson if they see you compromising and reaching a decision everyone is fairly happy with.

Fingers crossed you and DH are able to unite on stuff in future, if this compromise works out it may show your DH it's the best way forward.

[curlyhair500]

I really do hope it works out. She asked to sleep over at her friends house tonight and I said no but that if things go well this coming week then maybe next weekend. Is that reasonable or am I being too soft on her?

I do know she's a good kid and and hasnt been in any serious trouble but she just winds me up so much with her attitude towards me and the way she speaks to me. She hasnt got the sense to realise that if she just toned it down a bit and was a bit more pleasant then she would get her way a lot more.

[bigTillyMint]

curlyhair, it sounds like very normal teen behaviour to me. With DD it started more like when she was 13!

I don't think you are being too soft on her - you are making a point about rudeness and attitude.

I hate confrontations, so do my best to avoid them. It was so easy when they were small and they just did as they were told with a tantrum or two It is hard with teens.