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Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

(1000 Posts)
OhNoMyFanjo Sat 02-Jun-12 11:25:34

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

Smellslikecatspee Sat 02-Jun-12 11:29:17

YY

Corgito Sat 02-Jun-12 14:33:51

No victim deserves to be attacked. However, being drunk impairs judgement, reduces inhibitions, causes recklessness and can therefore put someone in dangerous situations that, if they were not drunk, they would avoid or handle differently. There are enough criminals in the world to make it a risky place for any of us. Alcohol only makes it riskier.

puds11 Sat 02-Jun-12 14:36:56

No one deserves to be raped. I found out recently that my best friend was drugged and rapped by two men on a night out. She thought it was her fault sad

Lueji Sat 02-Jun-12 15:13:25

I agree with Corgito.

Obviously it's the rapist fault, but I will do my best to prevent it happening. Not getting drunk is one of them.

BTW, if the rapist is a pillar of that community, then the roof must be about to come down.

HerRoyaleHoighnessDirona Sat 02-Jun-12 15:30:55

Corgito, lueji, that's a rape myth, you are as likely to get raped sober as you are drunk.

WyrdMother Sat 02-Jun-12 15:31:24

So you never get bit reckless drunk, will you ever walk home in the dark, drive on your own, live on your own, answer the door, be alone in an office with your boss, accept a lift from a male friend, wear a short skirt/tight jeans/show clevage/wear a swimming costume or go on a date?

Depending on the Rapist, one or other of those is going to make you fair game. I'm sure there are loads more, just can't think of them at the mo.

OhNoMyFanjo Sat 02-Jun-12 15:54:33

In tge article she even says tgat if she had been completely sober she would still have never considered him a risk because of who he was. Sounds very like the comments people have made regarding famous peopke.

Corgito Sat 02-Jun-12 16:01:15

Don't trivialise the point I'm making with silly arguments about 'myths'. Being drunk is nothing like wearing tight jeans or living on my own. Being intoxicated affects judgement, behaviour, reactions. There are plenty of ordinary things it's not advisable to attempt pissed. Being sober doesn't make anyone bomb-proof but, if the world is full of rapists that look at all women as fair game, you might as well have your wits about you as not.

Lueji Sat 02-Jun-12 16:07:31

That's why I said it's one of the things I do.

Incidentally, I have been recently in a personal security workshop and I am learning self defence too.

Did you know that the rapists position is one of the strongest to defend? Even to knock him unconscious.

That's why I'd rather not be drunk too.

MN 'We Believe You' rape awareness campaign

and from the We Believe You - rape myths we're challenging page ...

MYTH: Women who get drunk or take drugs shouldn't be surprised if they are raped or sexually assaulted

REALITY: Being vulnerable does not imply consent. If a woman is drunk, drugged or unconscious, she is not able to consent to sex(5).
Being vulnerable does not imply consent. If a woman is drunk, drugged or unconscious, she is not able to consent to sex.

If a woman has consumed alcohol (fewer than four in 10 cases), it is the man's responsibility to ensure that the victim has given, or is capable of giving, consent. If he does not do so, he is committing rape.

^Simlilarly, a woman is not to blame if she drinks alcohol and is raped. Women have the same right to consume alcohol as men.^

MYTH BUSTED! By our blogger Inside the Wendy House

(My bold.)

LemarchandsBox Sat 02-Jun-12 16:12:30

There are plenty of ordinary things it's not advisable to attempt pissed

Well, I wouldn't stand on a chair to change a lightbulb, turn the chip pan on or drive while pissed.

I would consider that if I was in the company of a rapist then the number of drinks I had would have no bearing whatsoever on the fact that he was a rapist.

It is a Rape Myth to turn inebriation into a cause of rape.

Lueji Sat 02-Jun-12 16:13:57

And how what we said is busted by that?

I do basic things to lower my chances of being raped/assaulted/mugged/car jacked.
Not being drunk is one of them.

WyrdMother Sat 02-Jun-12 16:16:06

Okay then, where is the line? What deserves rape and what doesn't? Because rape apologists who can't believe dear old so and so would do such a thing can always find something. She was drunk, she was dressed inapropriately, she was out alone...

In this particilar case the woman was out for the first time in ages, spent most of the night with her husband and had a mutual friend suggest the man as the right person to run her to her car picking up her sober husband on the way yet you would still give her a proportion of the blame because she was drunk.

maristella Sat 02-Jun-12 16:17:35

Alcohol introduces more grey areas. Grey areas created by society, and it is these grey areas that make conviction harder, in fact they can make it harder to understand that a rape has taken place.

The only cause of rape is the rapist.

Lueji Sat 02-Jun-12 16:19:25

Lemar, it's not a cause but if you are not drunk you are less vulnerable.
To lots of things, including rape.

Because you are more aware of red flags and your behaviour is less risk prone.

If I get raped it's still his fault 100%, but what does that matter? If you were rape you were raped. Nothing takes it away from you.
So, I prefer to do my best not to put myself in that position.

HerRoyaleHoighnessDirona Sat 02-Jun-12 16:20:44

<claps Plenty and Lemarch>

Thanks for the link to the rape myths.

The papers like to perpetuate the myth that you are more likely to be raped whilst drunk. It's simply not true.

Rapists choose who to rape and when and don't care if you're drunk or not.

Lueji Sat 02-Jun-12 16:21:44

Wyrd, nothing deserves rape.

End of.
Obviously.

runronnie Sat 02-Jun-12 16:24:31

agree that no one deserves to be raped, but personal responsibility for keeping yourself safe must play a big part too

I drink lots. I have been drunk and walked home by myself shitloads of times. Wearing skimpy clothing, too.
I have not been raped, because there wasn't a rapist around.
People get raped when there's a rapist present. When there's a rapist present who intends to rape, nothing the victim did or said makes any difference, the rapist decided to rape.

LemarchandsBox Sat 02-Jun-12 16:25:08

Well, I'm pretty much as sensible/careful about personal safety when I'm drunk, Lueji, so that theory doesn't stand up for me.

As I see it, if I got in a car with a rapist when drunk the only difference to being sober would be the attempts to blame my drunkeness for his actions (by other people).

Such is the pernicious nature of Rape Myths.

Teansympathy Sat 02-Jun-12 16:28:38

Thanks to all of you my friends Dh has just been in a similar situation and ignorant about what do do about protecting herself , thanks for the information on it a big help.

As you say LEJI nothing deserves rape.

Corgito Sat 02-Jun-12 16:29:19

I'm mystified by the hostility. I also think no-one deserves to be raped, drunk or sober. However, I firmly stand by the opinion that when considering personal safety there are some simple, commonsense precautions anyone should take.... male, female, old, young... and having a clear head is one of them.

Lueji Sat 02-Jun-12 16:29:24

Ok, some statistics about incidence.

www.athealth.com/Practitioner/ceduc/alc_assault.html

although, incidence is still no measure of guilt or deserving it.

bumbleymummy Sat 02-Jun-12 16:30:33

Agree with corgito and lueji. I don't think either of them is saying that it's your fault that you were rsped if you were drunk but I do think alcohol makes you more vulnerable. If you are drunk you are perhaps more likely to try to walk home alone, talk to some random stranger etc. things that you wouldn't do if you were drunk.

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