TTC Super Ovulation part 3

(978 Posts)
Arianrhod Mon 08-Oct-12 08:30:07

Hey ladies -

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Part 2 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1475108-TTC-Super-Ovulation-part-2?pg=1

Mel3062 Mon 24-Dec-12 12:38:59

Well I'm ill with a flu like virus got sent home twice last week sad my tnf test has come back high so needs treating so Surrey on the 3rd for the tb test then humira... Joy!! X

Arianrhod Mon 24-Dec-12 13:50:48

Hmm This high TNF-a wave is very interesting ... on the FF board they often say that high TNF-a is indicative of something else going on, but also that it in turn causes high NKCs. So bringing down the TNF-a should hopefully also bring down NKCs.

Very interesting, and a pity it wasn't tested for early on in investigations ... might have saved some heartache. I haven't had mine tested, and not sure it's worth it for me as the humira injections only work for so long, and there's no guarantee I'd have enough good eggs to get 'properly' pregnant quick enough. But very interested to see what happens with you both, mel and pebbles.

Pebbles73 Tue 25-Dec-12 00:27:00

So it sounds like you are seriously considering calling it a day Ari? It must be very hard on you pretty much going it alone as can be tough even with support, you may feel differently after taking a break though.

Brown good luck with the lap and dye, will be lurking to see how you get on.

Mel surprised they didn't do your tb test at the same time as mine were done at the same time. How are you feeling about the result? Lets hope that humira turns out to be the answer.

I hear you Ari and Brown that its good to know what's wrong but have just become rather sceptical about it all as I seem to find more and more things wrong and so wonder what other problems there are I don't yet know about..... think 2013 will be the lady year of trying for us.

Mel3062 Tue 25-Dec-12 06:44:35

Thanks hun i think I nearly had it at the same time but then he said there's no point me paying for the test if I may not need it but I wish he had in a way then humira can start early but I guess a 5 day wait isn't too bad. It's just a pain going back to Surrey for the test but at least it's still in my holidays so here's to my month break whilst having humira!! Hope it is the answer. Do I have to not try at all?? Or is it just no steroids? Do I have humira at Surrey or do it myself??
Happy christmas to you all hoping 2013 is the best for us all xxx

Arianrhod Wed 26-Dec-12 21:31:37

pebbles You've just said what I've been thinking for sometime. I'm rather sceptical about this ever working as I keep finding more and more things wrong, what more is there that I don't know about? I can't say yet whether it's definitely the end of the line, or even of doing SO, but it really does begin to look like there's little point in carrying on.

mel I hope humira is the answer for you.

Hope everyone is enjoying their Christmas to the full!

brownstag Sun 30-Dec-12 19:12:23

Ari, I found this article that might be of interest in deciding whether to continue with SO.
http://estudogeral.sib.uc.pt:8080/bitstream/10316/4749/1/file1f2e7cb6af8b44f39729acf59bd71f01.pdf

The really relevant bit is as follows:
'We have previously argued that superovulation protocols will produce a considerable number of poor-quality oocytes for fertilization (19) because they supersede the natural selection mechanisms associated with oogenesis, such as atresia. Such events are designed to prevent these oocytes from being ovulated.'

Possibly not what you want to hear, I know, but it tallies with what a lot of us feel instinctively, that superovulation may produce one result, but upsets the natural balance in other ways. You may well be better off waiting for that one good naturally ovulated egg.
Has anyone heard about the hormone kisspeptin? That seems a much more hopeful way of influencing fertility in a more natural way, without the need for drugs, but whether anything will be developed in time for us to use it is another matter, assuming it can be used in older women as well as hypothalamic amenorrhea.
Happy New year everyone!
xxx

duggs1976 Mon 31-Dec-12 04:23:39

Just jumping in here ladies to wish all a happy new year and hopefully a more successful one with this journey. A very interesting article about SO. I have previously gotten pregnant every 3 to 6 mths until I started SO with dr s and nothing for over a year naturally.. No more for me. Best of luck for those who want to continue to try but I am quite sceptical. I think it is great if it has worked for you but I reckon you would've gotten that good egg anyway. Thanks for post has confirmed by suspicions - if it worked would'nt the world be doing it !!?

Arianrhod Wed 02-Jan-13 10:02:44

Happy New Year everyone (and I hope it IS a happy one for us all!). brown thanks for that link, I read the article - ok so some terms rather went over my head but I got the gist of it. Very interesting, and for me at my hugely advanced age (I'm feeling a bit like an old nag put out to pasture right now) it actually makes a whole heap of sense, and something I've actually wondered about. It's a fact that at my age I will have more 'bad' eggs than good, and I've often wondered if SO forcing the maturation/release of more than one egg at a time won't simply be upping the number of 'bad' eggs that are being released. I assumed though that your body's natural processes would still junk anything that wasn't properly fertilisable; it's interesting to read that they appear to believe SO bypasses the natural process to some degree and that eggs get through that otherwise wouldn't. I wonder why then Mr S advocates SO for us 'older' ladies? Although to be fair to him, it was me that asked to do it, he said I should do IVF.

I'm still in two minds about SO, sitting around and waiting to see IF one 'good' egg ever gets released when only one a month is coming through (and assuming we manage to 'catch' that one egg) isn't easy, as you will all know. I'm 45 in a week, and like I say, rather feeling that it's now just too late - that, plus as I say, OH doesn't appear in the least bit interested. But I won't be doing SO for a few months, at least, if I ever do do it again, since OH seems to think holidays are more important and I cannot afford to pay for SO all myself and pay for half a holiday (two, actually, since he wants to go away for Easter as well as summer). Where's the Lottery win when you need it?!

Well, I'm just about to start AF, due tomorrow and right on cue bbs have stopped their usual post-OV hurting (although since stopping agnus castus they don't hurt anywhere near as much as they did - and I'm not sure that's a good thing, doesn't less bb pain indicate less progesterone in your system?). So clearly this isn't our month either. I know some people do get successfully pregnant when they're older (abney is an inspiration for me personally, given that she's my age!) but I have to face the harsh reality that so many don't. Although how many 45 year old women try for babies? Who knows. And with DQa and NKc problems, my body's busily trying to kill off anything that might stand a chance of growing anyway, so am I really being sensible even holding out any hope? The last few weeks the joints in my hands have been hurting like heck and the psoriasis on my elbows itching like mad (which they haven't done in years), so I'm assuming for whatever reason my NK cells are on the rampage. Honestly, what realistic chance do I have?

Hmm Sorry ladies, that wasn't intended to come out as a negative post, especially not so early in a new year. But I'm very aware that I may just be banging my head against a brick wall here, while taking extra-strength painkillers for the headache I'm causing. I'm just not sure how to say ok, that's it, and draw a line under the whole affair. I'm not very good at giving up on things!

Hope all of your New Years have started full of hope and optimism, and please ignore my gloomy ramblings!

Mel3062 Fri 04-Jan-13 07:25:54

Aw ari sending you a big hug. Has mr s continued checking your egg reserve?
I saw mr s last night and my alpha result was 54 and should be 31 so he said that is a big factor but he was v positive so hopefully humira will do the trick but I nearly died when I got the bill sad
He did say not to try yet some people have said to whilst having humira unless they mean after both injections??
Good luck ladies whatever you choose this month xx

Arianrhod Fri 04-Jan-13 12:45:23

Thanks mel .. no, Mr S just did the AFC scan right at the start (and pronounced them just fine) and then the LH/FSH/E2 blood test April last year, and that's that.

So have you had your first humira injection then? Everything ok with it, no reaction?? I can't say whether you can try or not, perhaps if choccy is still reading here she can comment?

Mel3062 Fri 04-Jan-13 14:46:23

Hi no not starting injections for another week.
I've got to get my LH/FSH/E2 taken again as had it done about 7 months ago.whats an AFC scan?? X

Arianrhod Fri 04-Jan-13 14:58:19

AFC is Antral Follicle Scan - another way of estimating your ovarian reserve.

Arianrhod Wed 09-Jan-13 13:40:01

Reeeeaaallly quiet on here now ... no-one still doing SO?? Well I know I'm not one to talk, exactly ... hit the big 45 yesterday, and pretty p*d off with the whole process.

How's everyone doing?

Mel3062 Wed 09-Jan-13 19:15:57

Aw ari sad happy birthday I know what you mean as you hit each birthday the last thing you feel like doing is celebrating xx
Well as above starting humira in a few days hopefully x are you giving so another shot?

lemonsherbet Wed 09-Jan-13 20:18:02

Happy Birthday Ari.

I am yet to start SO since like duggs am a bit sceptical. Waiting for NHS appointment in recurrent miscarriage clinic they have cancelled the date was meant to be seen. Then sent me through a date I can not make.
Still lurking on here but not much I can contribute at present.

Mel3062 Thu 10-Jan-13 07:03:57

Well day 43 and I know af is coming as I have a spot and got bfn but my cycle used to be bang on 28/31 days and 2 cycles now its messed up how can it be when I get follicle scan and ovitrelle??! Annoying sad

Arianrhod Thu 10-Jan-13 08:24:30

Thanks ladies, birthday is rather a curse than a blessing when you're looking at fertility sad

mel That's odd .. have you mentioned it to Mr S/Louise? What CD is Mr S having you trigger? Seems odd that it's been extended so much - I'd definitely mention it if I were you.

SO ... I don't know ... I can't decide. Part of me thinks it's just a waste of a lot of money every month, part of me is worried that more 'bad' eggs are just being produced, but part of me thinks 'two chances to get pregnant every month'. Ultimately I just don't know, but I suspect I won't do SO again. Or at least not for a few months. Not sure.

/waves to everyone

Breezyweezy Thu 10-Jan-13 17:33:04

Hi Ladies and Happy New Year to all. I really hope 2013 is the year for us all, however, I have been saying that to myself since 2009 and each year seems to be worse than the one before!

Ari happy birthday for the other day.

Brown thanks for posting the article about SO. Very interesting indeed. I'm guessing that when you have a virtually undetectable AMH it isn't the ideal treatment solution! But then again, what would be?!

Mel sorry to hear of your extended cycle. That does sound strange considering you are having your cycle tracked.

lemon hope you get your RMC appointment sorted out soon. Which clinic will you be going to? I went to St Mary's and was bitterly disappointed since I had read so much good stuff about them online.

I hear the skepticism about SO. I had really hoped it could be my answer but 4 cycles in and nothing. I know the success is supposed to come in cycles 4-6, but I don't think I'll be doing it again, typical as I have 2 month's worth of letrozole! I have finally had my GP refer me for NHS fertility investigations and go to my first appointment Feb 7th. It's silly as to be referred, you needed to have scans and bloods done by the GP and then they want them done again before your NHS appointment. Am sure they will only offer IUI as a first port of call (useless imo) before moving to IVF, but I suppose it is progress and will save the ££s doing SO! The bugger is I am on jury service and sods law has intervened and I have ended up on a 12 week case shock. Fun trying to get the judge to understand I need to have time off to go to scans and blood tests for "women's things" that can only be on certain days and at short notice!!

Mel3062 Thu 10-Jan-13 21:13:30

Yes I had trigger on dec 13th day 16 of cycle! I thought I felt ovulation the following Sunday so this is bizarre. Yes told mr s and as having "month off" for humira he said to see what happens with cycle. It's only happened once before but it wasn't as long as this and it was not a good response on my scan either so that sort of fit. Annoying as It comes at weekend because I need blood test for fsh/lh!!! X

Arianrhod Fri 11-Jan-13 10:55:09

breezy Fabulous if they do offer you IVF on the NHS - I know it's a pain having to go through repeat testing etc, but brilliant if they end up with something that might actually give you a baby. Be warned though thata lot of NHS people don't believe in NK cells though - would you carry on seeing Mr S for the immunes side of it?

mel Hmm sounds very odd. Can you not get your blood taken at the weekend, have you got a walk-in clinic that might do phlebotomy as well?

brownstag Fri 11-Jan-13 11:58:03

Happy Birthday for the other day, Ari. I totally understand what you call your ramblings ... it's so difficult to give up; even when I say I'm going to, there's always a little proviso ...
Very odd Mel. Can it happen that you don't ovulate despite the trigger? You don't think you're one of those people who are pregnant but don't test positive on prgnancy tests?
I had my lap and dye yesterday and am still sitting around in a dressing gown today.
He removed the large endometrioma on my right ovary; it kind of came away, which is good, because incising inevitably removes some good tissue.
My endo is still exactly as it was in 1993 at my last laparascopy; severe but no longer active. He didn't try to remove any of the extensive adhesions because it might trigger new endo.
My left tube is open but my right not.
So the irony is that my fertility may now be reduced by this procedure; previously I rarely ovulated from the right, but removing the endometrioma may reawaken it (combined with the DHEA, as I think I ovulated this month from the right too), but there's no point if the tube is blocked!
So every right-ovulated cycle will be a wasted month.
All in all, it spells IVF in giant letters but I just don't have that money.

brownstag Fri 11-Jan-13 12:21:29

P.S. In my dreams the reason why there was no 'fill and spill' of the right ovary is that there was a big fat fertilised egg moving down it and blocking the way. Have no idea if that's really possible or how big an actually egg is ...

brownstag Fri 11-Jan-13 12:22:01

Right tube, I meant.

Arianrhod Fri 11-Jan-13 13:00:38

Interesting findings brown. Can I ask, how did they know you had endo to start with? Did it show up on a scan, or something? I just wonder, I had an hysteroscopy and Mr S said everything looked perfectly normal, but I always wonder whether there are conditions (like blocked tubes) that can only be seen by specific procedures, eg your lap & dye. And I do like your dream of the egg blocking a tube ... no idea either if it's possible, but it sounds excellent smile

Arianrhod Fri 11-Jan-13 13:05:30

Oh, and totally with you on the lack of IVF funds ... I keep thinking that may be our only possibility, BUT of course I just simply don't have £Ks, so it's never going to be an answer for us. Even if OH would agree to it, which he has always maintained he wouldn't. I suspect only a big fat Lottery win would sway him, and I'm not seeing that happening any time soon! Ho hum ...

In my never-ending pursual of 'is there something I could be taking that might make a difference' (although I know realistically there isn't anything), I'm now looking at Wobenzym N. Supposed to fairly drastically lower NKcs without steroids. Bloomin' expensive though, but I may give them a try. Heck, I've tried everything else! I'll know if they're doing something, as my psoriasis will calm down (good to have a kind of NKC-weathervane, I guess!). And re-looking at Royal Jelly, although I don't know if that ever really did anything when I was taking it before.

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