ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To be fucked off that parents not vaccinating their child is risking my childs life?(348 Posts)
I never judged them before. I never cared, if they chose not to vaccinate their child I always thought it was their choice and its not for me to have an opinion.
I never used to give it much more thought that that. I vaccinate mu children and what others do with theirs is none of my business.
Until I have a child who's immune system is often (but not always, steroid use) compramised. He is more likely to pick up bugs, and not deal with them very well.
He is also allergic to many things. I know tha egg allergy isnt usually an issue, but the MMR is cultivated on egg albumin. He is allergic to egg (anaphylactic) chicken meat, and feathers. The whole caboodle. Im pretty sure his tiny body wont like egg albumin either.
He's due to have this vaccine very very soon in hospital and Im absolutely shitting myself. Every time I remember it my stomach drops and my heart races.
Im genuinely thinking, what if he dies?
I cant get the vaccines done individually because the private clinics wont touch me with a barge pole.
I cant risk leaving it (Ive left it 18 months so far) because the area I live in has a very low MMR rate.
And that really, really angers me. Probably irrationally so.
I should be able to leave it. My son should be protected by societies use of the MMR.
Instead I either have to risk him getting an illness, or risk giving him this injection.
As if he hasnt been enough already.
I know IABU, but I just feel very resentful and angry towards those who choose not to vaccine right now.
More than prepared to be flamed for this.
Well some babies have died from whooping cough but it is agreed by pretty much everyone that the whooping cough outbreak is due to waning immunity of the vaccination ( and the change to aP). Or possibly a mutation.
The first signs of autism often become apparent when the child is 18 months which is also the age many children have their immunisations.
Oh yes whooping cough . Sorry I immediately thought of measles and mumps and I hadn't heard of any deaths from those.
Oh don't worry pixel - the single minded often blame 'anti-vaccinators' :rolls eyes: for the outbreak anyway when that isn't the case at all.
treadheavily - do you have any experience of autism at all? I am guessing not.
saintly yes I work with them.
What age are these children with autism that you work with? Older babies and toddlers you have known well from birth, and can certainly say that they were already autistic before MMR?
Pre-schoolers. Usually come to our attention 2-2.5, some immunised, some not.
The 'it's just co-incidence' argument is such a crock of shit.
My son regressed. I didn't suddenly spot signs at 18months. He lost skills. The GP was concerned at this substantial loss of skills, chnges in diet and beaviour and sent him for lots of tests.
Plus of course the huge hot red lump at the site of the injection and the high pitched screaming.
So if you 'work with them' then you should know it's autisms not autism then and shouldn't be treating it as one condition.
pag this happened to my eldest too. The lasting results weren't as devastating as they have been for yours though.
Ds1 stopped speaking after his mmr. He had terrible bowel issues, masses of undigested food and diarrhoea too for at least 2 years afterwards.
He stopped growing too and when he resumed growth it wasn't following his previous centile line.
He just seemed to shut down.
We were under all sorts of consultants who agreed that something had happened and something was wrong.
He also started what I can only describe as 'stimming'. He still does this but can control when he does it.
He is 15 now an to all intents and purposes a 'normal' boy. But he is not normal.
There is no way on earth I could take the chance with my other 5, no way. Everyone agreed that something had happened to him and as I said up thread no doctor or consultant was prepared to say there was or wasn't a connection.
Over the years on MN I have also realised when telling mr ds's MMR tale, that people don't want to listen or acknowledge. Perhaps Pag has the same experince?
You get threads like this, someone comes on raging against those who choose not to vaccinate. For them it is such a simple choice; Wakefield is a fraud, the MMr is safe.
Then I might come along an say what happened to my ds.
Then there is usually silence, no response and the thread 'dies'. No one has ever tried to tell me I am looking for things that aren't there. But people don't want to hear it either. It makes them uncomfortable, perhaps it threatens their views of the safety of vaccination for all.
I am not saying is WAS due to the MMR I am also not saying is WASN'T. But something did happen to him straight after he had his MMR.
When my younger 5 caught measels in 2012 I was relieved( finally it was here) and of course pretty scared. Yes they were pretty poorly but they came through without any issues.
There were a number of tut tutts and I patiently explained my reasons for deciding to allow this to happen. They had absolutely nothing to say in response. Hopefully it will make them think just a little bit before they judge someone who has chosen not to vaccinate.
Plus of course the huge hot red lump at the site of the injection and the high pitched screaming. sounds like my boy Pag .
He also lost skills. In his red book it says "waving bye bye, 11 months" (though I don't remember writing it, I was obviously rather blase about 'milestones' then). After his regression the next time he 'waved bye bye' he was 11 years old and waving from the taxi taking him to his SN school.
I must have imagined that he could wave previously.
I have video of ds1 making sounds he can't make now. Like 'qua qua qua' on seeing ducks and 'sssssss' for snakes. He can't make those sounds now (he's a teenager).
The number of people who have never met him but know exactly what didn't happen to him always astounds me.
Saintly - I actually took a couple of videos before LO2 went for first set of jabs...I have always felt uneasy about vaccinations and felt I needed to do that for various reasons. I question now why, when feeling so uneasy, I let LO2 go for her first lost - I suppose due to the whole responsibility for herd immunity, judgement etc etc...it's so easy to tell people they are being irresponsible not immunising but when your child becomes a statistic, well, that's a whole different thing.
The Cochrane reviews by the independent Cochrane Collaboration are a good objective source of research - they are a network of thousands of specialists who produce meta reviews of all research available including work that you usually cannot get to without journal subscriptions.
They are not pro or anti vaccines generally - for example they recently produced one that was more sceptical of the flu vaccine.
Their 2012 summary on the combined MMR is here
To summarise on side effects:
"Results from two very large case series studies involving about 1,500,000 children who were given the MMR vaccine containing Urabe or Leningrad-Zagreb strains show this vaccine to be associated with aseptic meningitis; whereas administration of the vaccine containing Moraten, Jeryl Lynn, Wistar RA, RIT 4385 strains is associated with febrile convulsion in children aged below five years (one person-time cohort study, 537,171 participants; two self controlled case series studies, 1001 participants). The MMR vaccine could also be associated with idiopathic thrombocytopaenic purpura (two case-controls, 2450 participants, one self controlled case series, 63 participants).
We could assess no significant association between MMR immunisation and the following conditions: autism, asthma, leukaemia, hay fever, type 1 diabetes, gait disturbance, Crohn's disease, demyelinating diseases, or bacterial or viral infections."
saintlyjimjams Now you are just being rude. Are you as rude to the people who work with your child?
Because of the way the children come to us, ie have social services input, their progress has been documented for as long as they have been "in the system". We have clear evidence of children being able to build block towers and utter recognisable phrases before their slide into developmental regression.
As I explained earlier, they have not all been immunised.
Not all children are picked up this early. I could cite many examples but it depends partly on the parents/caregiver's observations and willingness to get help.
Parents on here sound very devoted and alert. That is not the case for many children we observe.
Others don't want their child to be "labelled". A label is useful in that it serves as a ticket to specialist help, but it is entirely up to the family as to whether they sign up for it.
My DS3 is not fully vaccinated. DS1 & DS2 are.
The reasons are that DS3 got soo poorly after each vaccination, including hospital visits, and the fact that he nearly died, that I refused any more. The NHS refused single vaccines.
DS3 recently had the MMR that he missed, at the age of 13yo, and was in Hospital the same night due to the reaction
Why should the health of my child outweigh that of yours.
ModreB unfortunately you have misunderstood me/not read the thread.
My point is, YOUR children should be protected as well as mine.
Thats the whole point. Those at risk, those whos bodies cant cope woth the vaccinations should be protected by those who can.
ModreB to point out 'me' being the OP I changed back to my usual name. In case that was confusing.
I'm not bring rude. I think it's essential that people who work with kids with autism realise it's not one conditu
Condition. Especially if they are going to claim authority on the matter.
treadheavily, I can't see anything rude in saintly's post.
Doesn't it stand to reason that there is going to be a whole load of different triggers to regression and immunisation is just going to be one of those?
I don't have first-hand experience of this but I can imagine it is incredibly annoying for parents who know what they have experienced in their child to have their observations dismissed by people who have not made those observations but are certain they know better.
I am as pro-vaccinations as the next person but I was still cautious and concerned when it came to dc2 being vaccinated, as he had had Iv antibiotics at a very young age indeed and I have a small degree of experience of automimmune and allergic issues. He had single measles at 19mo and one MMR a year or so later when I felt happier about it.
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