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to think this is very disruptive??

(972 Posts)

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macdoodle Sun 13-Oct-13 15:52:21

I probably am being unreasonable and am prepared to hear it.
My DD1 has just started secondary school, she is in the "more able class" (this is what its called by the school hmm).
In this class, of about 20 odd, there is a boy with SN. He has an assistant for every lesson, and from what my DD tells me I guess he must have some form of autism.
But every single day, she is coming home with stories of what "X" has done. Thinks like having tantrum, which takes 20mins to calm down disrupting the lesson, shouting at the teacher, grabbing or hitting another child (and once a teacher), throwing all his books and stuff on the floor (numerous occasions), storming out of lessons etc etc.
Now the kids all seem to think this is hysterical (and great fun that almost every lesson is disrupted by "X"), but every day I am a bit hmm, it just sounds very disruptive, and DD is starting to sound more annoyed than thinking its funny.
She does however say that is is clearly very bright indeed.
I know he has just as much right to be taught, but at the cost of disrupting a whole class of children? AIBU?? I can't quite decide TBH, and so far it doesnt appear to be affecting DD1's abilities, but we are only a term in.

Marne Wed 23-Oct-13 14:27:54

Sorry I havn't read the whole post (just op).

What would you like the school to do with the child? teach him in a separate room? but him with the less able children? send him to another school? Sadly none of these options are likely. The boy is in MS school because he is able to do ms school work, i'm sure the school and his teaching assistants are doing there best to remove him from the room before he becomes too disruptive and then calm him down before returning. He has just as much right as any other child to be there.

My dd2 is in ms primary school, like the boy you describe she is quite bright but she does struggle in class, if its too noisy she gets upset and will sometimes cry or run out of class. I would be so upset if I found people were talking about 'if she should be there' she has just as much right as all the other children to access a MS education, its up to the support that's in place (her TA) to remove her from the room if she is upset or disruptive.

KittiesInsane Sun 20-Oct-13 11:10:17

Same here, Sauvignon.

Ironically, DS was accepted by his autism base with the proviso that they didn't have the facilities and training to take on violent children -- so a friend's little boy, who lashed out at random rather than only hurting himself, was not accepted. Now that's really unfair.

I feel so blessed to live where I do. After years of feeling guilty for DS's behaviour, believing it to me all my fault at times, he received a diagnosis of ASD. I couldn't wait to get him out of primary school and their illegal exclusions (which dried up once I asked for them to be put in writing). hmm

I have been so fortunate for DS to attend a MS high school with an Autism Resource base. He had one legal one day exclusion in 6 years! With the support of the experienced TAs and SENCO he passed most of his GCSEs and is now starting his A levels in the Sixth form. grin

His experience should be the norm, I'm very aware that it isn't. Friends in another county have nothing like this, the inequality of experience is outrageous! angry

If the OP is still reading, I acknowledge and accept your earlier apology.

capticorn1 Fri 18-Oct-13 17:53:29

To those of you who have had your eyes opened to the struggles of getting appropriate support etc for our children, I thank you for your very welcome comments.

It took us 6 years to get to the point where my sons school admitted they could not meet his needs (after I begged them to say so) that they didn't have enough training or funding and they even admitted that they had not written violent incident reports for the lesser acts of aggression (so the LEA were unaware of the true extent of the difficulties. That they were having with my son). Illegal exclusions, failing to adhere to the terms of the statement and a lack of knowledge and understanding were all part of the reason why my son was failed by the system (the system that is allegedly inclusive) And everything was blamed on his perception of what had happened.

There were times when I truly felt that no school could meet his needs and there were times when I lost hope that my son would ever be able to do 'normal' stuff that boys his age were doing every day of their lives. There was a time when our sons behaviour was so extreme that it took our family to the very brink of destruction and he wished that he was dead and then we turned a corner and there was light at the end of the tunnel.

A school accepted him (even though they had doubts as to whether they could help). At one point they wrote to me about his behaviour and stated that they may have to rethink the placement but after a meeting between the HT and my son things began to get better, they understand the difference between what makes him tick and what ticks him off.

Now I have hope that my son will become a productive member of Society and will achieve all that he aspires to.

Beachcomber Fri 18-Oct-13 17:26:38

Another one who is listening and learning from this thread and sends thanks and hugs and cake and wine to all those who are having to fight for their children to get the education that should be their right.

My daughter was in a primary class with a child who really needed to be in a specialist school - her parents and our school had to fight for about three years for this child to get the school place she needed.

sickofsocalledexperts Fri 18-Oct-13 12:07:14

I was lucky as both parents and kids were nice when my pretty severely autistic boy was in mainstream. I think a lot depends on the area, and whether you get decent people in your class parent group.

Trigglesx Fri 18-Oct-13 11:00:30

When DS1 was in MS, the children were very accepting of him (once they got past thinking he was just naughty). It was some of the parents that needed a few lessons in tact and basic manners. hmm

YouTheCat Fri 18-Oct-13 10:45:27

Good point. And the reactions of peers can play a big part too.

IorekByrnisonsArmour Fri 18-Oct-13 10:33:01

I have just found this thread. I haven't read all of it, I haven't got a child with special needs but this is my experience of having a child with SN is class with DS1 in Y1 & Y2

DS1 goes to quite a large primary school, most year groups have 2-3 classes.

In Y1 he was put into a class with R (Autistic child). DS1 was put onto the top table with R. I didn't know R had SN, but when talking to DS1 about school he often mentioned R, how clever he was, how he'd completed X,Y and Z on a computer game etc

After school one day, a friend of mine asked how DS1 was because R had had a huge meltdown in class, throwing things and kicking the TA. I was confused I later asked DS1 about this and he said. " don't worry mummy, R has Autism, sometimes he gets upset and does things, but (teacher)&(TA) know what to do and then everything's fine."

I talked to the TA and she told me how fantastic all of the top table were with R. That R was very settled within the environment and they were all very supportive.

In Y3, R was moved into a different class, despite his TAs wishes to stay with the class he had been in. His behaviour deteriorated, as predicted and now he has moved to a different school sad

So I suppose what I'm trying to say is, to the OP, maybe the disruption is due to settling in issues, perhaps given time things will settle.

To parents/carers of SN children. My DS accepted R as just another child. He was impressed by his intelligence and computer skills. He knew the reasons why he was disruptive, because it was explained to him (as part of the class)

I believe he gained some great life skills, acceptance, working despite disruption and also I think it gave him a push to do better academically. smile

Pagwatch Fri 18-Oct-13 10:29:22

The Op pm'd me too (along with zzzzz) for reasons I still don't quite understand but I'm not sure anything is going to change in the class because she suggested she had no intention of speaking to the school at all.

alwayshome1 Fri 18-Oct-13 10:20:45

I started talking to everyone I knew after reading the hideous panto thread.

The sense of disabled people and their families being part of a separate universe was pretty strong. Even when there was empathy, parents would mention the negative effects of their children being in contact with disabled children. Unbelievably sad. People believing that shutting out the more uncomfortable parts of life would keep them safe, not realising it only increases their own isolation.

On the other hand, we have a good community here, people get out and about and join in. I've tried to put this to good use building a few connections between all sorts of different families. Not trying to sound like a saint - just trying to offer ideas of a different type of positive momentum.

I think bigotry decreases when people know each other by name and have spent time chatting , face to face, in actual real life.

What Peachy wrote yesterday was just so depressing. Not one parent in her child's class wrote the letter of support she asked for. That's awful.

So I got to know the mums, dads and grannies of the three children with disabilities in Ds playgroup and the two in his pre school class. The children have been to his parties and some have played here and vice versa. We meet out and about at the library, leisure centre, cafe. I introduce them to other people, they introduce me to other people. Other links made with friends of my parents, old school friends with older kids, friends who work in SN education. Am thinking of other ways now.
That's not the overkill it sounds, I am not the most social person!

KittiesInsane Fri 18-Oct-13 09:59:59

Zzzz, one such excluded child was suddenly sent to DS's special unit last year. The LEA thought it would be a splendid idea to make him share DS1's taxi, with no warning, mid-GCSEs. New boy was understandably distraught at the sudden change of school and made DS1 late for school on an exam day.

We protested vehemently, and were very much fobbed off. The view from the LEA definitely seemed to be that our boy was lucky to have transport (he is) and that because he has SEN his exams didn't matter (they bloody well did).

Now, in one sense, that makes us hideous hypocrites because we were complaining despite knowing that this was another child with needs as great as DS1's.

But actually it's a case of utter lack of connected thinking. 'Needs taxi/high-ability class? There you go, be grateful.'

YouTheCat Fri 18-Oct-13 09:33:19

I'd like the OP to come back and let us know whether the school are implementing any changes or have talked to the children about the other child's needs and how they can help him remain calm.

zzzzz Fri 18-Oct-13 09:26:35

smile. My oldest child with sn is eight. Like most people posting without personal experience, I honestly hadn't the foggiest before ds. Thank you all so much for being better than I was and thinking about all of this.

Now if you could talk about it with your Mums, and Partners and children and friends, that would be hugely helpful. <shameless> grin

I learnt on this thread that if a child is excluded from one school they are placed at another within 6 weeks without all the support the previous school set up. shock. How utterly shortsighted! These are vulnerable children not hot chestnuts to be tossed from place to place.

PlatoonBuffoon Fri 18-Oct-13 08:52:25

Just wanted to say that I started reading this thread thinking the issues brought by the OP were complex and I didn't know how I'd react. Now thanks to some incredibly eloquent and tireless posters I can see things so much more clearly.

For those parents with SN children, struggling against the system and attitudes of others, it must be so incredibly frustrating for you (I fear this is a gross understatement), but I just wanted to let you know that some of us ARE listening. Thank you for continuing to post, and educating people like me for the benefit of all our children.

Pagwatch Fri 18-Oct-13 08:45:39

You know the other thing that bugs me - beyond the 'not my problem' thing is that many of these people genuinely do see themselves as empathetic .
As a society we have found ways to congratulate ourselves on how kind and generous we are - how sympathetic.
We all cry at chikdren in need, we raise money for Bliss and for Great Ormond Street hospital.
But when that child gets out of hospital and has residual symptoms that make her disruptive in class well suddenly, a real problem on my doorstep, a child that affects my orderly life - its uncomfortable and unwelcome.

There is a huge disconnect.

hazeyjane Fri 18-Oct-13 08:24:58

Yes zzzzz, that 'otherness' 'not my problem' is just so depressing.

I feel like the campaign should have been called

'This Is Someone Else's Child'

Maybe 'These Are Our Children' would have been better.

SelectAUserName Fri 18-Oct-13 07:52:14

At the risk of outing myself, I have shared oink's MP email template on a non-parenting forum and have already managed to garner another half-dozen or so letters sent within less than a day. If other FMs who post in other forums do the same, we could maybe get a little momentum behind this.

nkf Fri 18-Oct-13 06:39:52

If there is a letter/petition that has widespread support, please could someone link me to it? I would like to add my voice to people seeking more help and support for children in schools.

YouTheCat Thu 17-Oct-13 23:41:17

The lack of understanding is what you'd expect if people have no experience of autism but the lack of empathy is shocking.

zzzzz Thu 17-Oct-13 23:31:15

I wish I could be so sure.
I think the are lots of schools, teachers, TAs, parents, peads, therapists who try very hard to help. But like this thread there are an awful lot who don't.

I think this thread has really highlighted for me how very "other" some people consider disabled people.

Donkeyok Thu 17-Oct-13 23:30:35

Thank you Bag lady flowers you were not my star, infact you are still being disruptive wink

purplebaglady Thu 17-Oct-13 23:20:20

Donkeyok, l do agree with all your wise advice. U taght me good grin

IsabelleRinging Thu 17-Oct-13 23:13:17

No, they didn't show children with disabilites, but I imagine if the support is there for for the child they focused on tonight, then I am sure support would also be available for a child with a statement. After all, as you said yourself on another thread, if a child is having problems in school, the cause doesn't matter, they have SEN and still need the support.

Donkeyok Thu 17-Oct-13 23:11:31

You shouldn't have low expectations of a child's behaviour because they have special needs. That can be quite insulting and damaging. Education in this class aims to be inclusive therefor proportional time allocated for all. Obviously if the teacher is unable to teach whole class with the support of the TA a new strategies needs to be implemented. Secondary teachers are subject specialists and do not usually have extensive knowledge of individual conditions and refer to individual education plans given by SEN dept. Whilst they need to provide for the learning of all it has to be managed in the shared environment. If this were happening in my classroom I would want more intervention and possibly withdraw child until I had made a more detailed learning contract with them. I have taught children with different degrees of autism in various ability levels and they have not been the most disruptive pupils in fact in many cases they have been the gifted stars.

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