To say he can't go to stag do if there are going to be strippers?(696 Posts)
I'm sorry if this ends up being long; I will try to keep it as concise as possible.
Last year DP went to a stag do (first one that has come up whilst we have been together). It was one of his closest friends, and one that I previously liked and respected. They were away for 2 nights. I had wondered if some sort of strip thing might be involved but I thought probably not as the friend was not that kind of man and DP assured me when he got back that there was nothing of the kind. I later found out (through my scarily good investigation and interrogation!!) that this was not the case. On the first night they had been to a strip club and on the second night there were topless waitresses at their apartment for about 3 hours. This info came out bit by bit. Each time DP would insist there was nothing more to tell, then I found out something else. Eventually I think I got a full confession out of him but it was difficult to be sure as he had lied so many times about it. I also got out of him that there had been topless waitresses at a work party he had attended some time before (I had suspected something wrong and he had always denied it before.) He claimed all this was not of his doing, it was not really of interest to him and he just went along with it because they were in a group and he didn't want to make a fuss etc etc. If he had had a lap dance, I would have broken up with him (friend had a lap dance and the man has gone down a lot in my estimation.) As it was I nearly broke up with him anyway. He knew how much I hated strippers and how I would feel about it, and he did it anyway. But I think the most damaging thing was the lying. I trusted him before, and he had destroyed all that.
We got over it and agreed that if there was anything like this again he would tell me the truth and face the music. He understands how much more damaging it was that he lied about it. Since then, I have been to a work party where there was a male stripper. I didn't know in advance but I did know once I got there and I could have come home. It seemed a bit hypocritical, but I went anyway. I just sat at the back, while some of the married women in my group, went up on stage, straddled the stripper, took their wedding rings off, etc etc. That made me think that I wasn't so worried about DP being present in a large room where women were stripping, it was how he behaved and the interaction that would bother me. Hence why I was more upset about the topless women in the apartment than the ones in the strip club. FWIW I believe he would have behaved in a similar way to me in his situation. But his friend having that lap dance upset me, and made me think you can't trust any man, even the ones who seem nice and like they really love their partners.
Now he has his DB's stag party coming up. It's in the city where we live, but some people will be coming from elsewhere so there will be an apartment rented again. He has said he will tell the truth about it this time. He has admitted that the best man is planning something to do with strippers but nothing is booked in yet. I'm already feeling upset about it already and I just don't want him to be around strippers at all. WIBU to say, if that is happening, I don't want you to go at all?
What's the difference? He pays for it, someone else pays for it, it's no odds.
Seeker - Because it's a bit of a shit job. Same as a lot. I wouldn't be thrilled if she were stacking shelves in tesco.
Marmalade - I am going to suggest you go out and learn a little about certain industries before you make ridiculous comments about what does and does not happen within them. The thong comment is particularly entertaining. I think you've been watching one too many movies.
The companies i work for hire girls for various things. Personally, I don't dance, because i can't dance. I sell things - Alcohol etc.
Pretty much all of it preys on, mostly male, stupidity and the fact that there are a large portion of men who will do anything for a pretty face and a nice body.
The girls i work with who dance as well are there because they want to. They're not forced, The working conditions are great - It's pretty much our choice. If i go to a venue and spend half of it outside smoking i'm not going to get in trouble. I'm just not going to make as much money. No ones going to do anything about it.
They don't offer 'extras' on the job and if they did they would be promptly sacked and our contracts prevent us working in the same area of work for 3 months after it's terminated, Which no one wants. It's simply not worth risking - You're losing about 10 times more in those 3 months than you'd be getting for an 'extra'.
And if they don't want to do something for someone and someone tries to force them, that person would promptly be removed. Most girls i know wouldn't do anything they're not comfortable with for the sake of a few quid - The same as most of us here wouldn't shag our boss for a promotion.
There are dodgy areas of the industry - Obviously, But you cannot sit there saying these things unless you've experienced it all. And you simply haven't.
Mechanical - Because as i said, It preys on stupidity, And i hope my son is smarter than to line somebody elses pockets for a bit of a tease or 5 minutes talking to a pretty girl.
When i sell stuff my favourite customers, and the ones i usually end up stood chatting to at the end of my shift are the ones who smile at me and go 'Do i look daft?'.
I don't particularly care about other people paying for it. That's their look out.
"Jeez, the comparison of going to a LCD occasionally and having a non Fair trade coffee occasionally is grim..."
Isn't it? Even though I know about all those children who are kidnapped and trafficked to be slaves in the coffee industry, doing back-breaking labour for 80 hours a week and I know that the collapse in the global coffee price has directly caused widespread starvation in coffee producing countries I am still self absorbed enough to think it doesn't matter when its convenient to me. Well, its not so much that I think it doesn't matter, its that I choose to push it to the back of my mind and it is the same type of guilt that I feel when I am not campaigning against exploitation in the sex industry.
I know that in terms of numbers human trafficking for sexual exploitation is a bigger problem than trafficking for agricultural labour, I'm not stupid, but as I am not a user of the sex industry it's not something that I think about as much. When DH went to stringfellows on his cousin's stag night I just thought 'oh, I'm sure those women have decent working conditions, it's too high profile for anything really bad to go on.' and it is exactly the same twatty "my wants are more important than your rights" allowing me to say that that allows me to drink the coffee. I am fucking grim and I'll be the first to admit it.
Anyway 'happy' isn't the right word, more apathetic.
IThink, your posts this evening struck me as gloriously honest. I kind of hope that joining in discussions like this will lead to your drawing that 'line' a lot closer to home. You sound like a woman who knows how to consider challenging issues and moderate her views accordingly.
"Thank you, Ithinkofhappy- you're the first one to address the questions I asked- it does sound as if you need to think/ question a bit more...."
I know I do but sometimes I think if I think/question any more than I already do then I will freeze up and get nothing done. I wrote to over 300 MPs about the same sex marriage bill (the same letter, I'm not mad) then I felt guilty because I didn't write to any LibDems because I thought they would all vote yes anyway and I forgot about Sarah bloody Teather. Not that I would have changed her mind but all it takes for evil to flourish and all that...
Maybe I am mad.
Why haven't I gone to bed yet??
It is exactly the same twatty "my wants are more important than your rights" allowing me to say that that allows me to drink the coffee.
I agree with this, and all you've said about pushing ti to the back of your mind. I, too, am grim ...
I think there's a wider issue, impinging directly on the matter of sexploitation, which is that of patriarchal power over women. And all the messiness contained within those four words. In a coffee-growing village, women will bear the brunt of the cuts along with their children. Chances are, girl children will suffer even more than boys. Throughout the world, in very nearly every circumstance, women are forced to know their inferior value compared to the men.
This is more or less why many Mumsnetters would say the matter of sexual exploitation is 'greater' than the matter of cheap coffee or cotton.
Others would say they're all symptoms of capitalism and they wouldn't be wrong either! I guess we all have to pick our battles, but I still hope you'll nudge sexual exploitation a little further up your priority list
Naila - I do various things. Shots are one of them.
I wrote to over 300 MPs about the same sex marriage bill
Whoo-hoo! It worked! Now we know who to thank/blame
Zebra. My post about thongs was sarcastic: an imagination of what does NOT go on in LDCs.
Thought that was fairly obvious...
Yes, iirc 'only' around 60% of people trafficked for economic exploitation are female compared with something like 98% for commercial sexual exploitation and more men than women directly benefit from trafficking. Even though a significant proportion of traffickers are women then they are usually middlemen, used to gain trust. At the top of the tree sit the men.
I have been to two stag dos. One included darts and dominos and the other one was a barbecue. Lap Dancing is not an inevitable part of stag dos.
I did refuse to go to one stag do where I suspected it would end up in a lap dancing place as I don't really like the idea at all. However if my partner had tried to forbid me from going it would set alarm bells ringing in my head. By all means express your opinion, but adults don't get to tell other adults what to do, especially when they have done exactly the same things themselves.
"Pretty much all of it preys on, mostly male, stupidity and the fact that there are a large portion of men who will do anything for a pretty face and a nice body."
Er...so why would you be ok with your partner going to a club then?! I just don't get it! My partner isn't stupid, he wouldn't "do anything for a pretty face and a nice body".
How would the OP react/feel if she found out her partner had been looking at pornography online?
I'm a little taken aback that so many posters think that "topless waitresses at an apartment" isn't more than that. Really, nobody else is privy to stories of escorts at stag parties? I can't be the only one who knows tales such as:
Sex for the groom; blow job for the father of the bride (same escort).
Ping pong balls fired out of vaginas; caught by the groom and best man.
Girl-on-girl action for the benefit of a private audience.
Entire stag parties descending on Hamburg and Estonia for a long weekend, prostitutes all round.
Honestly, I'd rather my partner was destined for Stringfellow's. At least there are limitations and a clear understanding about what sort of exchange takes place between dancer and patron.
My questions again. Interesting that I have only had two answers.
1. Those of you who are happy for people to use LDCs and strippers, do you care at all about the women offering these services, and the conditions they work in?
2. Would you be happy for your daughters to do the same work?"
ithinkofhappy - i agree with all your posts. very honest and thought provoking. the older i get, i push things to the back of my mind and see the world as not being so black and white. just makes life easier.
basically reading alot of this post apparently its fine for the OP to see a a male stripper (so objecting / sexifing men is fine) but its red flags for a man to go to a strip club Is it just me or is the hpyocristy shown here totally disgusting.
In my books if its wrong to objectify /women it should damn well be wrong to objectify men as we are actully meant to be in a equal socitey not just when it benifets women
Yes. Poor ole menz, being bullied into prostitution when all they wanted was to dance, sold out of the backs of vans to serial abusers, being told to make nice with gangs of women who verbally, physically & sexually abuse them.
Not saying any sexism or objectification is right or fine, worridmum, but you're on a hiding to nothing if you want to make out this issue is just as bad for men as for women. There are some men who're treated just as badly in similar ways, yes, and I think you'll find it's being done to them by other men. Not women.
Yes. Poor ole menz, being bullied into prostitution when all they wanted was to dance, sold out of the backs of vans to serial abusers, being told to make nice with gangs of women who verbally, physically & sexually abuse them
Have you never heard of rent boys or the current care home/sex ring scandal that is all over the news? The fact these boys and men are exploited by men doesn't alter their suffering or make them less of a victim of sex trafficking.
Or perhaps that does that not fit with simplistic your black and white world view?
'There are some men who're treated just as badly in similar ways, yes, and I think you'll find it's being done to them by other men. Not women.'
Isn't that what she kind of said? It's pretty hard to deny that the majority of people exploited by the sex industry are women and girls. That's not to trivialise the horrific experiences of affected men and boys. There is also a wider issue of objectification. How many of us have been ogled, or insulted because of our appearance, or groped, or sexually assaulted? Can we prove a link with LDCs? That's difficult, but you can be sure that the proliferation of clubs where men can buy women for their own gratification won't be helping.
You know, there is an issue of respect in terms of partners seeing strippers. My hubby knows I hold very strong views and when he was faced with this he said he'd wait in another bar - a couple of others said they didn't fancy it either. I don't really care about him seeing other tits, it's the political angle that bothers me. Gawd knows he's seen lots of other breasts sat next to me watching films.
Mind, the OP didn't really help her argument when she forced herself to watch the male stripper.
OP - YANBU. This problem seems to come up a lot on mn and the OP tends to get called all sorts before some voices of reason step in.
It is ridiculous to say a woman is BU because she doesn't want her partner who she shares her life and herself with to degrade their relationship by seeking sexual pleasure elsewhere.
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