Bf 'nazis', lies, distortions, and the disinhibiting effect of the internet

[Spudulika]

Was listening to a programme of radio 4 yesterday about how people communicated differently on internet boards - how the lack of face to face contact dis inhibits people and encourages them to say things that are harsher and more confrontational than what they'd say while face to face with someone.

Got me thinking about posts I've seen here from people telling stories of really cruel, bizarre and ignorant things that have been said to them by other women advocating breastfeeding.

Such as people being told that they 'should' breastfeed, even though they've had a double mastectomy, are on chemotherapy or other drug regimes incompatible with breastfeeding, are suffering from serious physical illnesses , have a baby with physical disabilities which make bf impossible etc etc.

Also many, many comments from people saying they've been told plainly that they 'must' exclusively breastfeed, that formula is 'poison' or that formula feeding is 'evil'.

And I started to wonder why, given that I strongly advocate breastfeeding and know many other people in r/l who feel the same, and also spend way too much a fair amount of time on mumsnet discussing the subject, I've never heard (or seen here) anyone making these sorts of stupid, intrusive and cruel comments myself.

The worst I've seen here are a few mealy-mouthed comments about women who don't bf being 'selfish' - but nothing really extreme or downright cruel.


You'd think, wouldn't you, that if people are saying these things in real life that you'd also see these opinions expressed online (given the disinhibiting effect of the internet), but you don't really do you.

And yet according to many posters on this board and elsewhere there are many women out there advocating breastfeeding who are more than just tactless or a bit strident, but are actively stupid and spiteful.

So - what's really going on?

[dearyme]

who gives a monkeys about blimmin breastfeeding

either do it or dont, end of

[Changing2011]

I just couldnt give a flying "duck" if people breastfeed or not and I certainly couldnt give a hoot if they feel angry that others dont.



I did bf by the way - but that doesnt mean I agree with the BF Nazi attitude.





I have NEVER heard a ff mother criticise a mum for BF! Only the other way round.

[MorrisZapp]

Personally I don't believe all the stories on here about being criticised for BF in public.

If there really are so many people in society who confront strangers for feeding their babies as nature intended, why don't they come online?

Has anybody here ever commented negatively to a BF mum they don't know? If not, does that suggest that as I suspect, these stories are in fact made up?

I haven't seen anybody say that FF is evil, but I often see people feeling 'sad' about low bf rates which pretty much translates to feeling sad for the FF babies.

Somebody mentioned 'bliss' yesterday and how FF babies don't get this.

It doesn't take much to create a climate of judgement on this issue.

[Changing2011]

I agree Morris - how dare breastfeeding mothers pretend to know how a formula fed baby feels or speculate on its relationship with their mother!!!

[bubbleymummy]

why did you click on the thread then dearyme? Off you go dearie. :)

It's a good question spud. Where I am ff is definitely the norm and I had comments made about me bf by (distant) family members. I have not come across anyone who has criticised or attacked someone for ff at all. If anything IMO people are less likely to speak out about bf even if someone is spreading misinformation at the risk of causing offense.

[turdass]

I have bottle fed both my Dcs by choice and no one (even the midwives) has ever said diddly squat to me. I have had ONE smug comment from an uber mummy once but she would have found something to say no matter what.

I did find that a couple of other women who subsequebtly had kids were very visibly relieved when I said that I had bottle fed by choice almost as if they were expecting someone to have a go at then if the subject came up.

[MilaMae]

What's really going on?

You must have an eye sight problem or engage in selective reading,you've never seen anybody saying these comments on here,seriously .

I agree with the show I've never ever heard anybody say anything nasty,judgy or anything else in real life,a few intakes of breath but nothing err not so on here. It's quite shocking to be frank and a shame as for many women the only adult conversation they get on a daily basis is on here.

I also think what is not hurtful for some is bloody hurtful for others. Posters may not come out with slogans but can write a whole paragraph of hurtful shite.

Funnily enough you seem to have written such stuff yourself,thinking back to the "bliss" conversation we had yesterday which you didn't like when I turned the tables on you and used exactly the same wording as you had used.

[bubbleymummy]

Good grief Changing, calm down - the thread has barely started!

Morris, I don't think there's anything wrong with being sad about the bf rates. What is sad is that so many women try to bf - look at the initiation figures and then give up after a few weeks due to lack of support. Many are very upset by this - why shouldn't we feel sad for them and angry that they weren't able to feed their baby how they wanted?

[SolarPanel]

[HowAnnoying]

It's probably because a huge amount of stuff on here is absolute bollocks or exagerated beyond all proportions.

[Changing2011]

I gave up after a few weeks for choice - are you :( for me?

[mistressploppy]

I think perhaps the twits lesser informed individuals who spout nasty things about bfing/ffing are just not the type to come on MN?

[NinthWave]

There's more of it on USA-based websites/communities - see here:

LiveJournal breastfeeding 'support' community

There are some REALLY nasty women with some very bad attitudes towards FF on there.

I've never come across it in the UK though.

[LaWeasel]

In RL I had someone shake their head and tut at me for bf my 10mo of a bus.

I was a bit

People on MN say they feel sorry for ff babies. That people who fail at bf aren't trying hard enough.

I would say those were worse personally.

[Changing2011]

I agree LaWeasel.

[charitygirl]

I agree OP - I didn't even get the hard sell/much info from health professionals, let alone the rest of the world.

[bubbleymummy]

No changing I'm not. That was your decision. If you aren't sad about it then why should I be sad for you? Try reading posts and wind your neck in a bit. I said I was sad for those who give up due to lack of support. The ones who would like to have continued for longer and who are upset that they weren't able to. The ones who are beating themselves up about it years later.

[MorrisZapp]

Ok, I understand that you might feel sad for a mother who wanted to BF but gave up for whatever reason.

But it's a very fine line isn't it, between feeling sad for those mothers and feeling sad that there are so many FF babies. Which is very close to feeling sad for FF babies.

And motherhood being what it is, the very thought of somebody feeling sad for my gorgeous, loved, privileged and joyful son makes me so angry I could almost be violent.

Perhaps it is a bit irrational, but there it is. I'm MC and 40 years old - I didn't know it was even possible for non 'chav' mums to FF. Everybody I know BFs. I was BFed. I was really anxious about what people would think and say. Luckily in the event they were all wonderful and supportive of my choice, but it is still hard to be a FF mum where I live (posh part of Edinburgh) as FF just isn't really done here. I don't give a stuff anymore as DS is 6 months old now and I'm seeing it all for what it is - a series of passing stages that seem important at the time but that fade into obscurity when the next parenting dilemma comes along.

[YouaretooniceNOT]

Radical Muslims on the burka thread.

[PigeonMalteaserMadness]

I agree with a lot of what you say but I have also seen, regularly, "really cruel, bizarre and ignorant things that have been said" to women who are helping women who are struggling to BF.

"Nazi's" being a case in point. Now that is really offensive. My biological ancestors in Europe were practically annihilated. And not by people who BF or by Feminists (as in the term "Feminazi). Far the fuck from it!

[Changing2011]

you just seem like a HUGE judgey pants Bubbley - telling me to calm down and then trotting out really patronising statements.

I loved breastfeeding - for the short time I did it. I was glad to give up though and get into nice undies again and feed my fat whacker daughter less than fifty times a day

[BitOfFunnyBunny]

People make up stuff on the internet all the time. I am sure that at least half the anecdotes are embellished, if not stories that actually happened to a "friend", or downright untrue.

[MorrisZapp]

And btw, I was given a BF magazine by my HV, which advised me against FF no matter what, even if my baby was getting no BM at all.