Transgender kids article in today's Guardian

[TerraNovice]

Did anyone see this article about Louis Theroux's documentary that airs tonight? www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/transgender-kids-children-change-sex-families

Admittedly I have some issues with it. Is it really good to give kids hormone blockers from childhood? And I do find one of the mothers' statement problematic where she says she felt like she had a little girl because her son liked her shoes and "feminine" things and wasn't interested if you put a truck in front of him. I find these ideas of gender really reductive. A child who is uninterested in traditional masculine or feminine toys etc may not necessarily be transgender, they could be an effeminate boy or a butch girl. Why pump them full of hormones when they are very little?

Any thoughts?

[tibbysmum]

they aren't "pumped full of hormones" OP, they have hormone blockers to delay puberty.

[TerraNovice]

Sorry, that's a typo - meant to say drugs, not hormones.

[merrymouse]

I agree it seems odd if (like me) you or your children didn't have any particularly strong concept of gender at a young age.

However, I am sure that for the families there is more to it than can be communicated in a documentary or newspaper article.

[WidowWadman]

I guess they're not being given anything willy-nilly and it's a good thing that these children have parents who take them seriously and look to help them over their dysphoria and don't let their own ideology get in the way.

[GoGiYerHeedAWobble]

I am 'pumping my son full of drugs', as you put it, because he is 10 years old and he atrongly feels as if he is in the wrong body.

He has always liked a mixed bag of toys and activities, dolls and cars, dancing and boxing, but that's nothing to do with his decision, and it is his decision, to live as a male at this time.

If you saw the tears, panic attacks, and depression he suffered about his changing body then you wouldn't question for a minute why we decided to go for blockers.

I can't imagine what it's like to be born into a body that is all wrong, it's my job to support my son as best I can, and that's all I'm doing.

[tibbysmum]

GoGi you make a great point - if some of the people who have issues with Trans people had ever experienced dysphoria, or been involved with people with dysphoria and seen the trauma then they might be less inclined to judge.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

No one has "issues" with "trans* people". And no one is judging. I have quite a bit of experience of dealing with body dysmorphia, thanks. Way to misrepresent.

What I have an issue with is completely different, but I'm also aware that expressing my knowledge or opinion will attract vitriol and hatred and being told to die in a fire, so I'll just leave you to agree with each other.

[TerraNovice]

I dont have issues with trans people, I have issues with the article, namely the concept of gender depicted in it. Heels = girls and trucks = boys? Really?

[tibbysmum]

Puffins, I'm sorry you've had to deal with dysphoria - no one should ever tell you "to die in a fire"! and of course you should be able to express an opinion.
Terra, I think the article (like most about this subject) tends to present a massively over simplified version of the facts. I agree the heels/trucks is irritating.

[trufflesnout]

I agree, that sort of rigid gender binary is helpful to no one.

[MsAnndrist]

It could just be poor reporting but I've found that pretty much every article I've read aboit trans children has the parents saying that their son didn't like playing with cars or their daughter didn't like playing with dolls and that's what alerted them. I find it quite disturbing that the only reason they can think of for their child not playing with gendered toys is that they're trans.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

What I have an issue with is completely different, but I'm also aware that expressing my knowledge or opinion will attract vitriol and hatred and being told to die in a fire, so I'll just leave you to agree with each other.

Well I'd be interested to hear.

I have friends whose daughter from a very early age refused to wear any clothes which could identify her as a girl, often picking from the boys ' section and insisted on keeping her hair very short. She didn't play with dolls but loved trains. However she used to get annoyed if she was mistaken for a boy. She's 25 now and the last few times I've seen her she's been wearing short dresses and make up and generally looking very feminine.

Boys wearing dresses comes up regularly on AIBU but usually from mothers being self-congratulatory about how relaxed they are about their non-gendered parenting rather than considering their child might be transgender. If anything such threads are determinedly emphasising they are the mothers of boys who like girls' things.

From that article Camille's parents seem a little too hidebound about what girls and boys are supposed to like.

[Jackieharris]

"Female clothes"

Aaaah!

There is no such thing as "female clothes".

I'm with Eddie Izard on this one.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Body dysphoria is not uncommon. Even in children. The answer is usually to help the person to accept their body except in cases of transgender dysphoria when the answer is to change the body... People who believe they are supposed to be disabled, or an amputee, are not treated by having a limb removed. So why do people who reject their sexual organs get treated by having those sexual organs removed or changed?

Gender is socially constructed. There is no such thing as a female or male brain. Children cannot be born in the wrong body. They need help to accept themselves as they are not hormones and surgery to change their bodies.

[SilverBirch2015]

Ignoring the transgender part of this discussion for a moment.

What really disturbs me here, is the idea of "feminine and butch behaviour" in children. Do socially constructed preferences/fashions in toys, hairstyles and clothing really determine the label a person is given?

I find this terribly depressing.

[noblegiraffe]

Maybe more will be revealed in the programme but I, too, am struggling with the idea that a very young child could feel that they are the wrong sex.

My 5 year old probably didn't start categorising people into boys and girls until he was about 3, and certainly didn't distinguish between them in any meaningful way, more like 'I'm a boy and Jess is a girl, boys have willies, girls don't'. He pushed a teddy around in a pushchair without thinking that it was a girl thing to do, and as he played football with mummy, it wasn't a boy thing to do. His identity wasn't tied up with his activities.

I just don't get how young children could have such a strong sense of gender identity that they could feel attached to the 'wrong' one. How liking pink and glitter could turn into 'is actually a girl'. Is it the people around them giving them this idea?

[merrymouse]

Hmm. Number of reporters and documentary makers who will 'edit' information to tell a story - all of them?

Number of parents who will decide their child needs gender reassignment simply because their son tried on their shoes and will find several apparently reputable doctors to agree with them - none?

I know nothing about this but I am sure it is more complicated than portrayed on tv.

[CrispyFern]

The mum in the article says they kind of knew at 18 months that their son was actually a girl.

18 months.

Wtf.

[LeBearPolar]

There is no such thing as a female or male brain

Can you link to the definitive research on this? I can only find scientists disagreeing with each other about whether men and women's brains are in fact wired differently or not.

[YonicScrewdriver]

What definitive research would convince you, LeBear?

[museumum]

I don't understand transgenderism due to my relationship with my own gender. I am not "transphobic" and in no way wish to make life any harder than it already is for teams people but I just do not understand it. I can't. I have no feelings of being or not being my own gender. And like the OP I find some discussions of "feeling" one gender or the other are laden with trite stereotypes.
I work with a transgender woman I knew as a man. I just don't try to understand her transition and think of her as a new person as I have no idea what traits she has In Common with the man I used to know.

[noblegiraffe]

If there was a definitive male or female brain then the easiest test would be to show a bunch of experts a load of brains, or brain scans or whatever they need, and have the experts identify them as male or female. You could have brains of people who identify with their birth sex and also of trans people.

Has that been done?

[tibbysmum]

www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html#.VSEnDZPF-fg

[StillLostAtTheStation]

There's this one. No idea of it's validity.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-hardwired-difference-between-male-and-female-brains-could-explain-why-men-are-better-at-map-reading-8978248.html

I do wonder why women have a considerably lesser propensity towards violence. I expect many on this site will say that's because girls are told to be nice and to be good but so are boys so I'm not convinced women not resorting to violence is just because we're told not too. I suppose testosterone plays a part.

[Seshata]

The problem with the idea of trying to identify brain scans as male or female is that it doesn't account for socialisation- if there is a 'female brain' are we born with it, or are we taught to think that way? Environmental influences can be very strong. There are some interesting studies showing that mothers talk much more to girls, even as infants, which in turn influences language development (and, I would assume, brain development as well). So even at a young age any differences could easily be nurture rather than nature.