Would really appreciate some help

[cailindana]

Even though this is a relationship problem, I posted here because I think I will get better advice.

Rather unexpectedly, I find myself unwilling to continue with my DH. We've been together for 12 years and married for 6. We have two children.

I was brought up in Ireland and I would say my childhood was steeped in misogyny. The subtle messages I was always given were that men were the Important People who must be kept happy at all times and women were sinful idiots who were there to be slaves to men.

I railed against those messages, but inevitably they seeped in to some extent. Also, I was sexually abused as a child and my parents didn't care - what did I expect? I was a girl, that's what happens to girls.

So, despite being intelligent and relatively confident (I did a lot of acting in my teens, including big stage roles and some film parts) I got to age 19 with little or no sense of my own self worth. I then met DH and fell madly in love.

He was absolutely right for me at the time. He listened to me talk about the abuse I suffered, he was stable and kind and nuturing. We had a few rocky patches but I very much believed in love and when I married him I was extremely happy.

Now, six years later, I feel that, while the relationship was good for me when I was totally lacking in self esteem, looking for someone to make a family with and desperate for someone to love, it now does not work any more.

I've tried to talk to DH and he is very keen to change but I think he can't.

Kind as DH is, I have always come second in our relationship. I accepted that, most of the time. I now see though that any time I tried to push forward and insist some priority went to me, he subtly pushed back, was outwardly supportive but practically uncooperative, and as a result I have curtailed my life in order to fit with our relationship, which has essentially revolved around giving him the life he wants.

That's not to say I haven't benefited from our relationship, far from it. We have had some very good times, we have two wonderful children, and we have a nice home in a great place.

I feel though that while he has benefited massively from our relationship, I have made many many sacrifices. The crunch point came for me when I asked him to make one small sacrifice for me and he said no. Outright would not inconvenience himself in any small way for me to pursue my dreams.

I cannot come back from it. Whereas all the pushing back down through the years has been subtle, this was blatant. While all the time saying he wanted me to have a career, he wanted me to progress, he would support me blah blah blah, when he had to have one ounce of inconvenience to make that happen he just said no. And it all became plain to me.

Once, our relationship worked. I was a broken woman looking for security and I was happy to trail around after him, being his cheerleader and supporting him.

Now I want a life of my own. I do not want to have an "also starring" role in his production. He has shown by his actions that he does not want to support that.

So I feel I have to move on. But I will not make this decision lightly and I need some help to talk it through. Your help would be much appreciated.

No real advice here, but having seen many of your posts over the last few years I just wanted to offer you some support. Good luck with working through the process.

(And I recognise that feeling of crunch moments. If it's any help at all, I had one of those and tried to brush it under the carpet - with the result that I stayed, 'flogging a dead horse' for several years longer than I should. Which is not to say that splitting is inevitable - maybe some people manage to negotiate healthily and resolve what seemed to be crunch moments. But the one thing that does not work is sweeping it under the carpet).

Thanks Buffy .

To be honest I'm not sure I still love him. I feel so angry and disappointed that it's hard to feel anything positive. At the same time I feel like I'm now facing up to something that I've known subliminally all along - that he will not put me first, in fact I don't think he's able to put me first.

I have talked to him, he has acknowledged he was wrong, and has rectified it. However, he still, in small but significant ways, shows how unimportant I am. Partly I think he doesn't care any more, though he claims he does.

Questions help, if you can think of ones to ask. They help me think it through.

And Lurcio .

We've had some more minor "crunch" points in the past, which I have talked to him about. He's apologised, promised to change etc etc, does a little dance of contrition for a couple of months, then goes back to normal. Which makes me think this is who he is. And that was ok when I was who I was, but I'm not that person any more.

Can you give examples at all? It's very difficult to understand what you mean without context.

Having said that, if you don't feel supported or equal then I would argue that you aren't and you have the right to change that. If that requires leaving then that may be necessary

Sorry not very helpful I suspect. But what I am tryig to say is that you have to do what is best for you. You have the right to put yourself first.

I have a strong urge to make it work. I would like to be here with him in thirty years, and happy.
But, what I absolutely do not want is to continue unhappily for another 10 years and look back and think "why did I do it?"

What I need to figure out is what is actually going on here? Am I having a mid life crisis? Is there a genuine problem that can/can't be solved?

"At the same time I feel like I'm now facing up to something that I've known subliminally all along - that he will not put me first, in fact I don't think he's able to put me first." That seems to me to be the crux of the problem.

FWIW, if I had to summarise in a nutshell why I broke up with my ex, it would be that. I couldn't go through life like that. Admittedly in my case the choice was presented to me so starkly - effectively "chuck in your career at an age where you can't restart it, come live with me, but actually I don't want to give any solid commitment to the relationship in the form of marriage because 'I don't believe in marriage', and I don't want kids even though you do" - that to do anything other than leave would have been insane on my part. (You will not be surprised to know he's now married with a child. Thankfully I am now happily single with a child via IUI).

It must be much harder, though, to reach any sort of decision if it's less obvious and the selfishness manifests itself in subtle, under-the-radar ways. You must be left thinking "is this selfishness or thoughtlessness?" all the time.

Sorry, yes, examples.

We both had career aspirations coming out of the same uni course. He simply followed his aspirations, while I was always the one ensuring we ended up in the same place. We did live apart for a while, for jobs, but I curtailed my plans when it was clear we couldn't both pursue what we wanted. That suited me at the time, I lacked confidence and it was a good excuse for me not to put myself out there.

About two years ago I got a part time job that I really enjoy. I've done very well with it, and my pay and hours have increased a fair bit. With the last increase in hours I asked DH if he would do some childcare during the week (his job is very flexible) so that I could work. He said no, I can't do that I wouldn't be able to manage. Fair enough, I thought, worth asking anyway. Then he came back literally a week later, full of beans and said he had the opportunity to set up this new business and he was going to take time out of work during the week to run it. Hang on, I said, how come you can take time out for your business but not for me? And then came the crunch. After much arguing crying etc he admitted he didn't want the inconvenience of managing his time around childcare but he was willing to manage his time in order to advance his own career.

And that sums up pretty much our entire relationship. He'll suit himself but he won't put himself out for me, ever.

• would splitting up mean that you could then do the things he isn't supporting you with, or would it mean you have even less support than you do now?

A mixture of both actually. Splitting up would mean I have less time during the week so I think I would struggle on the parenting front as long days with the children make me snappy, so my parenting would suffer. But, handovers to him would mean I had genuine stretches of free time to devote to work and other things such as writing.

• are you still attracted to him?

Yes, he is very attractive. However, I have really gone off sex since I had DD as I am terrified of getting pregnant again as he was so utterly rubbish when DD was a baby.

• if you could build more of your dreams into your life by getting the support you need in other ways, would you be happy with the relationship you have?

That's a really tough one to answer. The problem is, I am finding it really hard to let go of past disappointments. Plus I feel that the role of a partner is to be supportive and to help build dreams, so I feel if DH doesn't do that, what's the point? Are we just fuck buddies who happen to have children together?

• what would he do if you stopped facilitating and enabling his dreams, if he still needs your support?

I don't know. I think he would really struggle without me, but I think he would have another woman quite fast, one who'd accept coming second.

It was the lying that got me Buffy. I can totally and utterly understand not wanting to change a setup that suits you. I can see how my request for childcare put him on the back foot and his automatic reaction was "shit, I can't manage that." He's human, I get it. What pisses me off was the utter bullshit he fed me at the time. "I'm so busy, if I took time off in the week I'd really get behind, I'd be in trouble and I wouldn't get promotion, I'd have to work at the weekend blah de blah de blah." I, being a sympathetic partner, thought "Oh, poor love, he really can't do it, of course I'll work something else out."
Then it turns out to be totally and utter hogwash. Because as soon as an opportunity came along for him it was fine. It was truly unbelievable, he literally came along a week after I'd asked him to do this and said "X wants me to do the business with him it'll be great." When I said, "when are you going to run it?" his reply was "Oh it'll be fine I can just do it during the week, we've agreed to meet on Tuesdays" - which was the same day I had asked him to do childcare on.

Your needs are an 'inconvenience' to him, while you have made his needs the centre of your life.

And, every time in the past he has promised to change, he has done no more than give the idea lip-service before reverting to type.

I think there are two options.

Either separate/divorce and live your own life the way you want (within the time and finance limitations of course)

Or - live 'semi-detached' lives in the same house and stop giving a damn about making him happy

I think the first is more honest,but with children that age you wouldn't be the first to decide it was more practical not to split up.

I don't see him changing - he's the same now as he has always been. What has changed is that you have noticed.

i can't really add to the wise words and thought-provoking questions others have added already. but i just wanted to say that the kindness, reliability, stability etc that you talk about in the OP are the minimum requirement really. i know it's (sadly) not what many women experience in their relationship, but those qualities are really, really basic things that most people need.

it's ok to say that there are things you need beyond that, and that you're not getting them as things stand

and in many ways the behaviour you are describing is not kind, reliable, stable etc - you only get those things on his terms. it seems that he is not prepared to go out of his way to provide those things if you don't fit in with his current plans

So he was not at all supportive when your DD was a baby and has lied to you to avoid taking on some childcare, it's pretty clear that he is unlikely to change in that regard. Would you be ok with using paid childcare instead? Is it an option? Is it financially viable? Would he be prepared to fund that with any income from his new business venture?

Would you be happy to remain in the relationship if the practical barriers to your career could be addressed? Or has the lying irredeemably undermined your faith in him?

We talked a few months ago and I said I was seriously considering separation. He said he wanted to make things right so I said, ok, give it a go. So he took a weekday off four weeks in a row, did housework in the morning and looked after the children in the afternoon while I relaxed. And that was it. He then went back to being how he always is.

Which made me think either

1. he doesn't take me seriously at all. He just does his dance of contrition and then hopes I'm over my little strop, then goes back to normal or
2. he doesn't actually want things to get better for me. He likes the way things are and if he has to change then he doesn't really want this relationship.

Either way, not great eh?

So on Sunday I said I'm out. I'm done with the relationship. He can try to repair it but I am doing nothing more.

So far he has done nothing.

So I am thinking I was providing life support to this relationship for the last two years. Now that I've withdrawn the life support, it will probably just die.

Hello Caillin. I am in a similar situation of evaluating my relationship but for very different reasons. So just wanted to offer my support, but not sure I can be of any practical help. I would agree with others that he has behaved very selfishly and you're not overreacting at all. Has he now realised how selfish he was beating and made any attempt to make amends?

I completely get where you're coming from and faced a similar situation in the breakdown of my own marriage. His unwillingness to put me first even just on the odd occasion broke it slowly but surely. He made it clear he felt childcare was a woman's job and I'm the one who should make the sacrifices. He said his career was more important that mine. It wasn't the only issue in the breakdown of the relationship but it was factor. It made me dislike him intensely.

Well now I'm a single parent and I have even more of the responsibility - he's flat out told me as the mother I'm responsible for the day to day care and he helps when he's willing and able.

So… it's not always easy but I'm happier now and I don't feel I'm colluding in it anymore which is an odd relief.

The childcare situation is sorted. After he lied to me and I caught him out, I said he either do the childcare or I was leaving. So he did the childcare.

Things got better for a while, so being the idiot that I am I then thought "Fair deuce to him doing the childcare for so long, I'll now ease the burden on him and get a CM," which I did. As ever I am wrapped up constantly in how he feels and what he wants, despite the fact that getting the CM has made my life harder in many ways.

Thing is, I don't mind at all making sacrifices. But when those sacrifices are taken for granted and in no way reciprocated, then they're not sacrifices, they're foolish actions.

He is very very contrite. He accepts that his actions were awful and difficult to forgive.

But he just does not change. So I'm at the point where I think it's just his personality and I don't like his personality. At which point, you have to reckon the relationship is a non-starter, don't you?

The position we are in at the moment is that the ball is entirely in his court. It is up to him to take action, positive and serious action, without my guidance, to fix the marriage. If he doesn't do that, it's over.