Why are feminists so threatened by the MRA movement?

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

When I was at university, the Gender Equality society (of which I was a member) chose to rename itself the Feminist society, arguing that the only way equality could be achieved was by focusing on women's issues. This led some other students to set up an MRA group, which was met with some resistance from the feminists. On this very board I see commenters angrily referring to MRAs as if they are all members of an evil homogeneous group.

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways? That the levels of this oppression are not necessarily equal, but are still important if we are to achieve equality? I often see feminists agreeing with certain 'male issues' (e.g. media stereotypes, elevated male suicide rate), but suggesting that feminism has other priorities, and if they want to do something about these issues then they should make their own groups. Why do they get criticized when they do exactly that? Better still, wouldn't feminism be better off if it didn't alienate so many men (and women, focused on a wider range of issues, and stopped pitting the sexes against one another?

[Branleuse]

not so much threatened, as think theyre cunts

[gertiegusset]

Wouldn't a better question be why do men feel so threatened by feminists?
Men are quite at liberty to fight for any rights they feel they are lacking, why do they need to attack women for wanting equal rights/pay/conditions etc.

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

Branleuse

A fine example, straight away. Why are they thought of as cunts just because they also want to achieve gender equality (albeit from a different angle)? Obviously there are trolls and idiots in every movement, and they're not the people I'm talking about here.

gertiegusset

Well there's probably a multitude of reasons, but I witnessed first-hand why men felt threatened by feminists at my university. Unless they agreed with what was (in my opinion) a fairly radical form of feminism which had no room for the discussion of men's rights, they were made to feel like misogynists, and were not welcomed in the society.

[gincamparidryvermouth]

Isn't it possible that men and women both suffer oppression from society in different ways?

Can you give us an example of male oppression in the UK today? What sort of things were the men in your university MRA group agitating for?

[cailindana]

I have never looked for or imagined threats from MRAs - I have, however, been actually and openly threatened by MRAs, with rape and violence. I am threatened by MRA because they have threatened me.

[CaptChaos]

Why should women, who have been and continue to oppressed by men (NAMALT) for centuries waste their energy fighting for the rights of their oppressors when there are still so many areas of life where we don't have equality. Freedom isn't finite. It doesn't run out if you share it, it might be a good thing for men to remember that while they jealously guard their privilege. One group being allowed the same rights as another, and having the same responsibilities, doesn't take anything away from the group that had hem in the first place.

MRAs hate women by the way. At least very single one who opens their mouths does.

[PortofinoRevisited]

They had a MRA organisation at your university? Which one was it? I would love to know more.

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

gincamparidryvermouth

From what I can remember, they weren't happy about the ridicule of men in some forms of the media, the lack of an explicit focus on men's mental health given their increased likelihood to commit suicide, and various things to do with custody laws and disputes. These aren't necessarily all issues that I agree with, but I thought that they were relevant to feminism and deserved to be discussed.

[gincamparidryvermouth]

they weren't happy about the ridicule of men in some forms of the media

This is FUCKING HILARIOUS!!

Oh my God! Are you serious??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is GOLD

Fuck them! Expecting women to take time out from the tidal wave of garbage flung at us unceasingly every single fucking day to listen intently to some self-important arsehole get his grump on about a fucking
sitcom!

Too good!

[Branleuse]

im really unsure how gender equality will be acheived by giving men more rights in a patriarchal society.

Your gender equality society realised that the way to equality was to try and campaign to level the playing field and improve the rights of women.
MRA are all about saying no no, we liked it as it was.

Id say that men are ALSO hurt by the patriarchy. Patriarchy doesnt mean men are bad. Its just an unequal unjust system, and most feminists are aware of that, although we dont go on about it because men can fight their own battles too, and most men with any intelligence and empathy would be surely aware of the disproportionate disadvantages women face in comparison, and thats why so many men identify as feminists too


Have you also asked any societies focussing on racial equality why they dont like the KKK much???

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

calindana
I'm sorry you have suffered that, but they are not a homogeneous group. I've seen (radical) feminists say some pretty horrible and threatening things to men before, but I would hate to think that men's opinions on feminist issues was shaped by these experiences.

CaptChaos
Because these 'oppressors' are your fathers, brothers, sons, friends, husbands. Many of whom who have been born into very disadvantaged families, and also suffer systematic oppression. If you don't want to campaign for these issues, why is it a problem that they do? This is the exactly the sort of 's us vs them' attitude which I hate, and one that has made feminism a dirty word for so many.

[LineRunner]

You nearly had me there, OP, until about your second word.

[PetulaGordino]

ah the voice of reason at last

do tell me more

[SevenZarkSeven]

I don't think feminists are "threatened" by the MRA "movement" as you would have.

Individual members of the MRA "movement" do however literally threaten individual feminists / groups of feminists with violence, as Cailin notes.

An important distinction.

[cailindana]

It's fine if you don't agree with feminism LaVoix. But it's a bit silly to come on to a feminist forum and tell people who know feminism inside out, and have actually met these MRAs you're so enamoured with and tell us we're doing it all wrong.

If you're really interested, do some research and come back again. But until then you are not going to change anyone's minds by telling us our years and years of combined knowledge is worth nothing.

[SevenZarkSeven]

Lol Petula

Do you know, it's the first time I've ever heard that argument.

I too would love to hear more.

[CaptChaos]

I have no problem with me. Talking about anything they like, what I have a problem with is when they come onto FWR, pretending to ask oh so reasonable questions and then want women to concentrate on their problems. This is a them and us. They are oppressors, we are the oppressed.

I do like that you used the disadvantaged men thing though, because you must know that women from the same backgrounds will be even more disadvantaged than those men, yes? Compare like with like.

[PetulaGordino]

i have literally never heard of intersectionality, or even considered it in my feminist thinking captchaos

thank god the voice of reason is here

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

gincamparidryvermouth

How is that useful? How can we say that it's an outrage that women are stereotyped, but a joke if men are? Regardless of which group suffers more discrimination, isn't it important to work together to challenge prejudices wherever they are found?

Branleuse

Many MRAs agree would agree with you that the patriarchy hurts men. That's why they want to move forward to positive change. I don't think that means they want to 'keep things as they were', far from it. Do so many men identify as feminists? It'll certainly be a far smaller number than those who believe in equal rights for men and women, and that's a great shame considering this is what feminism should be about.

[gincamparidryvermouth]

How can we say that it's an outrage that women are stereotyped, but a joke if men are?

Because the stereotype leads to women being mutilated, raped and killed. Which is more serious than being annoyed.

[LaVoixDeLaRaison]

cailindana
SevenZarkSeven
PetulaGordino

I feel like you're deflecting the argument somewhat. Regardless of whether or not I have studied feminist theory extensively, I don't think it makes my comments any more or less valid. Indeed, if you are all such experts in feminism and I am not, then it should be incredibly easy for you to deconstruct my argument using logic and evidence. Please do so, instead of resorting to deflections.

CaptChaos

I'm afraid to say that I find comments like 'This is a them and us. They are oppressors, and we are the oppressed.' to be extreme and an obstruction to progress. How can we expect men to want to work towards gender equality if we literally see them as the enemy?

[EverythingCounts]

Isn't this a bit like asking 'Why do the Palestinians feel so threatened by the Israelis?'

[MagicalHamSandwich]

I can't speak for 'feminists' as a whole. Personally, I don't feel threatened at all by men campaigning for gender issues from a male perspective - so long as this is done with the acceptance of equality between genders (including non-binary ones, preferably).

That having been said: a large proportion of so-called MRA groups simply appear to be hell-bent on restoring the patriarchy to its former glory, dehumanising and objectifying women and blaming the fact that nubile teenagers aren't available to them as sex toys on the fact that women have got any rights at all. And that's not even hyperbole - see sites such as //www.manboobz.com or //www.fstdt.com for myriad examples.

There's also the fact that many MRAs tend towards really violent language which, frankly does feel fucking threatening.

[cailindana]

LaVoix, if you had come on the thread saying "I genuinely don't understand can we discuss it?" then you would have had a very warm response. As it stands you've come on here and said we're doing it all wrong and now we need to give logic and evidence to show how we're not doing it all wrong. Eh, no thanks.

Your lack of knowledge does make your comments less valid because you are simply wrong.

[cailindana]

One thing I will say LaVoix, is that there is exists at this time not one single MRA group that is genuinely campaigning for men's rights. Not a single one. Every single group that has any public voice exists to attack feminism. That is a fact. And that is why your OP is extremely naive.