The Lundy Book. So sad

[Abitwobblynow]

This book 'should I stay or should I go?' is just one of the saddest books I have read. Especially for a co dependent, whose life has depended on 'solving the problem'.

What I have discovered, is that after our lives have been rocked by infidelity, nothing has changed, and what is it that I am supposed to be working with?

If he had been shocked by himself (he was) to really face things, really work at looking at himself and make sure he never reverted to those strategies again (naaah, not worth it), then all of this would have been worth it.

But nothing has changed. I am sure I am batshitcrazy to want to talk about the affair, but he says that the few sparse sentences he gave me is enough, and I shouldn't be going on about it. So, for me, it is not going away.

Then, the Lundy book has opened my eyes to the complete futility of our non-transactions. Why is protecting and defending himself/his ego more important than anything else? It has always been this way!

What would happen if he acknowledged that I had a point? Would he blow up and die?

'(Meal) Take any plate you want. Oh no, not that one, I wanted it. [pointing out this is a double message requiring mind reading, rage, retreat. The new me insists on the point being made, conflict]

'You make it very hard for me to talk to you' [after I have erupted in hurt and frustration because he hasn't talked to me about something really important]

'No, it isn't' - instant flat response to everything.

[This one hurts] never touching me affectionately unless he wants sex. After sex the touching stops. I have raised this point several times over a 10 year period.

If I persist, turning the issue back onto me and my faults, issues he never brings up in his own time.

Has anyone read this book? What are your thoughts? Does anything I say echo in anyone's life, or am I batshitcrazy after all?

[Lueji]

No, not crazy. :(

Some of these reasons are why ex is ex.
Why I stopped being emotionally attached to him, and why he chose the path of trying to exert physical control instead of acting his (supposed) love for me.

[lolaflores]

very deep sigh over here. specially the plates. and why the hell everything in this universe is down to me. we get there in the end, but feel so often that we are covering old territory time and again. he seems unable to change and i am sick of pulling and dragging. so I have a cunning alternative plan.l....

[arthriticfingers]

Abitwobbly Are you me? :(

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

You are not crazy.

Yes, what you are saying has many an echo in my life.

Why is protecting and defending himself/his ego more important than anything else? It has always been this way!
What would happen if he acknowledged that I had a point? Would he blow up and die?

I remember having these exact thoughts a while ago wrt my now-ex. Yes, it seems that to this kind of person, admitting responsbility for their own actions, or consider the feelings of the person they purport to "love", threatens their ego to such an extent that they react with rages, blaming, intimidation, etc, as if it really were a life-and-death matter.

They are broken people. They can't consider your feelings. The only thing you can do to stop being hurt by them is to walk away.

I'm so sorry.

But really, you are NOT crazy to want your feelings acknowledged. In fct, you are very, very sane to want that.

[arthriticfingers]

I read the book. It is uncannily spot on.
I can't believe I did this, but I underlined the parts that were the most urgent for FWH to read.
I am sure that you can all imagine how successful that was.

[Abitwobblynow]

what does FWH mean?!

I have got a horrible feeling I will wish I didn't ask!

Hotdamn, thanks xx

[arthriticfingers]

I stole it from LittleHouseofCamelias on the abusive relationships board. :)
I didn't check, but presume it does indeed mean F**witted husband. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. About the acronym, that is, there is no argument about H

[Dworkin]

I relate to the new woman with the man who had an abusive ex (me being the abusive ex . I was going to write to her but thought better of it as I knew I wouldn't be believed.

She thinks she has a wonderful, witty and charming man.

[Hattytown]

ABitWobblyNow have you ever counted up the hours and the money you've now spent trying to find ways to permit you staying with this man?

What would it take for you to give yourself permission to leave him?

[Abitwobblynow]

I have, Hatty. That is the point.

It is very sad.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

So what would it take to give yourself permission to leave him?. You can walk away; you cannot rescue and or save such damaged people.

And no you are not batcrazy at all.

[blackcurrants]

You're not crazy, Abit, you're just trying to do the impossible.

So what would it take to give yourself permission to leave him?

[swallowedAfly]

i think it's time to stop reading books about it and just act. think you've said elsewhere that he is violent unless i'm muddling you up with someone.

[fiventhree]

Do you have a game plan, OP?

[Abitwobblynow]

No action until after GCSEs and A levels (I am not the only person in the universe!).

Then he moves out. I don't think he really believes me.

It is just hard. This is not a violent man, he has a concept of fairness, he is not mean over money, he adores his children, successful upper middle class guy. There is just something missing. He does not take me seriously as a human being, never has, it took the hurt of an affair to get me to really look at him.

I feel terrible for the children. I feel a failure.

[Abitwobblynow]

He is 'so nice' and quiet. His co-workers really like him (one especially did, until she got screwed ha ha).

Nobody will understand this. I WILL be seen as crazy.

I start doubting myself, too

[perfumedlife]

I know it's a marriage and kids at an important stage in their lives but really, you are doing way too much introspection over this Abitwobblynow. The facts are, he had an affair and is not moving heaven and earth to make it up to you (not that I would ever be made up to but others can get over it and I respect that), and you are analysing this to death when it should be him doing so.

Woman need to stop trying to fix things. This is his mess to fix and he isn't trying. Did he buy a book, sort out counselling? Did he hell. Tells you everything you need to know. The kids will be fine if their mum is happy and you are far from happy in this hellish limbo.

[Dworkin]

Do not ever feel a failure. I've been there, done the no action until after GCSE's and A levels and I know where you are coming from.

You are not crazy. He on the other hand is acting most peculiar. I understand that you are not crazy, but I couldn't give a fig if his colleagues rubbed shoulders and took his side.

Two years down the line, I'm so happy to be without him. I know it sounds a cliche on mumsnet but I assure you, I've been there and it is true. Life is so much better without him. And you start to see the woods from the trees.

xx

[fiventhree]

I agree. Abitw, I do think people have a point that you are analysing this to death.

You know that I did choose to stay when many mners thought I was mad, but he is really changed now, and that is the most important thing to me.

I was as miserable as you are in October, when I decided to leave. I had been for at least two years. And, yes, he had his good points, and could be fun etc etc.

Yes, I had gone from a position where I earned more for many years, and brought the house to the marriage, to one where I didnt have work and he did, and the solicitor said I would have to may stand to lose way more than half what I brought in over the years, whilst he walked away with an income and half a house.

The kids were starting to notice things werent right, and act up. I only started to see this as I wanted to.

At this stage I was ready to leave. The reason I stayed is because I did get an explanation, ie his infidelity, and so far he has changed. I cannot imagine any reason why anyone would stay after discovering infidelity and years of shit preceding it, if massive change didnt happen. And if my h reverts, believe me, Im out.

[arthriticfingers]

Abitwobbly I knew it; you are me! Either that, or you are married to the same fuckwit dickhead man as I am.
The middle class professional man everyone thinks is a really nice guy. I have even less excuse than you for having put up with it for this long - the foul verbal abuse was verging on physical.
Infidelity followed extreme verbal and physical violence didn't push me over the edge :( (hopes AF is not reading this
Lundy's book did finally make me realize that I was wasting the few years I had left.
The only thing I can say to you is that I know how slow the endgame is. I, too, have to wait for A levels and GCSEs. Unless we are the same person, that is.

[fiventhree]

Also, you think you can project manage him out of this. I used to.

I think we have both had co-dependent behaviours, and muddled through with too much analysing.

I have recognised this, and stopped. You say you have, too. And you still are having an awful time.

My non smoking nurse said to me, before the reveal, - you have been unhappy for the two years I have known you. Are you willing to be this unhappy this time next year? Those words stayed in my head. They may be useful to you.

If you are serious, make plans now, get the house on the market, or whatever. The kids dont have to know yet.

[arthriticfingers]

What fiveenthree said.
If it is any help, this is what I have done so far: divided all finances - bank accounts; bills; credit cards; insurance etc. so that nothing is in joint names; made plans for a flat for me to move in to; drawn up all the documents for the separation to become legal - I don't live in Britain, so things are different here. By April everything will be in separate names. Kids know nothing and will not need to until all exams are over.

[Hattytown]

When did you find out about the affair OP?

And what's the timescale for the exams.? Have you got one child doing GCSEs and one 'A' levels this May/June?

[thebighouse]

I left two months ago. Lots of my friends think I'm a total batshitcrazy bitch. He's highly successful, campaigns for women's rights, professional blah blah blah.

He also made me live in fear for fifteen years, had issues with porn and women and it wasn't until I fell in love with someone at work that I realised that as another poster said: I realised "that I was wasting the few years I had left."

Get out before you get to that stage, is my advice. Life's too short.

The moment I realised that I didn't want to be with my husband was when the person I worked with took my hand and lead me to my car one afternoon. DH has never taken my hand, in all the years we've been together. No simple kindnesses at all, really. No cherishing.

I spend most of my time analysing the last year of my life. I'm still happier at the end of the day and I'm not spending all my time walking on eggshells and worrying about his next rage/fuck up.

You're a long time dead.

[Abitwobblynow]

Thank you, all. As for analysing: On my side of the bed: rescue your relationship, Gottman, Hirshenbaum, Subotnik etc etc (about 10). On his side: nothing!
So all of you who commented on over analysing are bang on the money. Charbon was really helpful: 'the problems in the marriage come from his behaviour').

Bighouse says something too: when I realised that I had had enough, was when I was in Tescos and realised that the checkout lady was kinder to me than my own husband - and she was paid a minimum wage to be so. THAT gave me the impetus to find OW, which I did.

He had been getting to a place (nervous breakdown actually) where he had been saying to me 'I realise the problems aren't in you, but me' and he had started seeing IC. He just didn't get round to telling her he was involved outside his marriage...

When I found OW he sacked her very smartly and rushed back home, and tried very hard (at a time I was shellshocked). This is now being held against me 'I tried and nothing worked'.

It has been 3 years. The fact that he put himself into IC and said he wanted to work has explained this time. Divorce just wasn't in my lifeplan, you know?

But he does operate at the level of a 5 year old, it is 100% all about him, any attempt to raise issues/get him to acknowledge stuff is conflict, and hasn't really done any work. His IC operates at a narcissist level (traumatic childhood, abandonment) and proceeds slowly to get the trust.

I think he owes me to wake up and grow up. And this is where we part company. I have come to terms with the fact that I do not feature in his awareness at all. And life really should not be this joyless.