Mumsnet Talk

This is an extract from KIM COOPER's book 'Through the Looking Glass' It is available on download and you search narcissismcured.com The comment at the end is from her now-grown-up husband explaining things from his point of view and what her behaviour did for him.

Step 4. If he is Intimidating Call The Police
Again, when you call the police, don’t expect miracles or be overly emotional with them. If they ask what you want them to do, say, “I want you to tell him what the consequences will be if he continues to intimidate/threaten/assault me.” If he runs away when the police come, you can still talk to them and make sure it is on record and that he knows you reported it. Still, you need to insist that they talk to him directly about the consequences of his behaviour. While they are talking to you, try to do it out of his earshot but where he can still see you, so he is left wondering what has been said. (Say, “Can I talk to you over there?” and point to where you want to move the conversation). This is a really important point that the police taught me. One officer talked to me for twenty minutes, leaving Steve waiting where he could see us. He said, “See, he is wondering now what we are talking about and let him wonder!”
You need to let him know that you will not tolerate emotional or physical intimidation and that he is going to have to deal with the consequences, not you. If you have already gone in to the police and spoken to the head of D.V. (domestic violence) it will help a lot. Just knowing this person’s name will make the police attending respect you better. In my case I got an AVO (apprehended violence order) on Steve (where he could still remain living with us) and this was very worthwhile. This was in Australia and I don’t know if they have something similar where you live but I hope so. Once the order is in place, if he intimidates or hits you again, he will go straight to jail. If he needs to go to jail to see you are serious about this boundary, so be it. You mustn’t try and protect him from the consequences of his bad behaviour.
The court brought us back three times on the assault charge that precipitated the order. I found this frustrating, but in retrospect it was important. Each time they said Steve was not ready and had to prepare better. This taught him that his bad treatment of me was more serious than he had thought. The male judge and police officers in the court room looked very disapproving and that helped too! Many men who mistreat their wives grew up with men who did the same, so Steve seeing these men who were respected and in authority really disapproved of his behaviour was a big wake up call. Their disapproval really sunk in and made a big change in him. The judge also thanked me for my time and even commented how nicely groomed I was. This might have been because I had made the effort to make friends with the police, but whatever reason it was a very good day for me. They made me feel very solid, strong and supported and showed Steve he was on shaky ground.
Some men whose wives assault them do not feel they can get the police to help. If this is your situation, I think it is important that you do. You do not have to play victim in court or with the police, but instead you might want to say that you are concerned about her behaviour and that she needs to learn it is not okay and that you do not want to be forced to restrain her or play policeman in your own home. The truth is that women, just like men, can be very scary and dangerous when they are violent.
The AVO helped us because Steve then knew that if he intimidated, threatened or hurt me again (and in his case one of the provisions of the order was that he could not drink at home or
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come home if he had been drinking) and I decided to call the police, he would be put straight in jail. This was important. He learned that he no longer had the upper hand and was not going to get away with sweet-talking anyone anymore. The power balance was now swinging in my favour.
If you can get a provision like this (that he can’t come home if he has been drinking, or something very easy to prove) in the AVO, it is really good, then it is not about the police taking sides. Once the AVO is in place, if you call and he is at home and has been drinking, he gets locked up, that’s it, no telling stories. He does not have the chance to charm anyone or provoke a fight, or confabulate and confuse things. I would still let Steve drink, but he knew there was a line in place and what would happen if he crossed it.
Fortunately, I never had to have Steve put in jail, but that was only because he knew I would call without hesitation if he ever tried to intimidate me again.
This will be a big disincentive to your partner continuing to disrespect you, but you have to be prepared to go through with it. Again, the only reason I didn’t have to have Steve put in jail was because he saw without a doubt I would do it. This is really important - as threats won’t work, he has to know you mean it, and that will probably involve you having the police over a few times. Don’t call them as a threat or because you are angry, call them if you feel you need protection. The sooner you do this and the calmer you are about it (“Honey, I don’t know how to handle you when you are like this so I think I am going to need to get the police here to talk to you”) the more effective this will be. You might also choose to quietly call first, then explain this, or he may try to stop you.
He might tell you he is not in control of his behaviour, but I am telling you that he only intimidates or puts people down who he thinks are weaker than he is. He’s not insulting big guys in bars, he makes decisions about who he can get away with this behaviour with. You need to become the wrong person for him to pick on.
This was quite troubling for me. The experience of court was horrible. I realised that I had made a terrible mistake and that the law was there to punish me. The D.V. officer from the police explained the terms of my Apprehended Violence Order and they were that I was to obey the terms or be thrown in jail. His words were simple and matter of fact, “Prison is a tough place to survive.” That was enough for me, but I DID need to be told. Kim was sad the day we went to court, I could see that she was very disappointed that our relationship had come to this, but she kept a brave face and knew she was doing the right thing. This experience I will remember forever, and I cannot ever have my conviction for ‘common assault’ overturned. Society, through a magistrate, was able to make a statement to me that my behaviour was unacceptable. I had crossed a boundary that I obviously had no respect for. Steve

If I had read that 18 months ago I wold have been totally sucked in by it and thought, yup, great that sounds right.. I'll give that a go. Infact I did read that 18 months ago, along with a whole load of other stuff that made me think I could help him...
But no I don't believe that now. He is beyond help for sure. I'm not saying that abusers never change, but 99% don't and the core attitude will always be there. Even with the 1% do you really want to be with someone who needs to be taken to court and threatened by the police for them not to hurt you. I would want to be with someone who just wouldn't do that.

That sound like a load of bollocks. Violent men know their actions are wrong. I find it hard to believe "Steve" is anything other than figment of an apologist's imagination.

It is dangerous to suggest women should attempt to "cure" their violent partners. They should get the hell out frankly.

And there aren't enough faces on the Internet to express my incredulity that the author preened under the approval of the judge commenting how "nicely groomed" she was.

Crap

Tripe.

Does 'nicely groomed' mean she had got really good at cosmetics to conceal bruises?

Do those that make comments like "tripe" consider that men who are abusive have no capacity to change or are not interested in change?

What a load of bollocks.

Well, you can say it is crap, and you can say it is tripe, but:

1. during my studies one of the insoluble problems of solving DV is the tenacious bond that people have with eachother. I remember the puzzlement of the academic books recording women going back again and again to their partners.

2 your crap and tripe comments ignore the very very powerful dynamic of co dependency. Of all the women you tell to leave here, how many leave???? They don't, they stop the threads, because they want the violence to stop not the relationship. So deal with the violence...

3. Telling women to leave DOES NOT WORK. See puzzled academic studies (law, sociology, feminism) above. Women go back again and again to violent partners.

4. The one person who does understand this dynamic is the writer of the book 'Men who hate women and women who love them" She is VERY clear it takes 2 to tango. That the violence exists inside a power struggle (for who is going to be in control, the 'loving' women who is 'trying to change him' or the immature man resisting the control.

5. This is why police are reluctant to get involved in DV/feel it is a waste of time. Because the reality is they are being pulled into dynamics they can't actually do anything about

6. IMO domestic violence needs to be a crime prosecuted by THE STATE and not the individual (otherwise he will always blame 'that bitch' who put him in there). So SOCIETY giving violent men a message that their behaviour is not acceptable.

7. If I were Adolf Blair with the power to change the criminal justice system, in my society, men who are reported for violence would automatically be arrested and charged by the state for the criminals they are exactly as if they were bank robbers. They could agree to attend 'why am I an immature out of control violent fuckup' courses to help them with their behaviour which THEY would have to pay for, in lieu of jail. Even one session (which they pay for) missed would mean jail. In the mean time the women would be also be required to attend co dependency courses (which they would pay for) so they can understand why they fall for fuckups, how to communicate clearly, how to set boundaries, how to enforce consequences and how to stop protecting these men so that they really know they have to change or lose everything.

8. 3 strikes and you are out. Long term jail for you no excuses entered into. This would shake out the immature and the troubled from the psychopaths.

Which is what Kim Cooper says (stop protecting him, leaving isn't really the solution to solving the problem, learn to be clear and in control, allow society to tell him he is unacceptable). So read it and think about how what success rate 'leave him' has (very, very low, always has been and always will be), before you say crap and tripe.

Ugh. Why would you bother? Seriously, why?

I'm with the crap, tripe and bollock camp.

2 women a week are murdered a week in the UK as a result of domestic violence. Are you saying they didn't try hard enough to fix things OP?

Fucking victim blaming again.

Your studies? You sound like you are making a rather elaborate case for an abuser

Don't forget to add "buy medical grade cosmetics" to your handy list of tips.

DV isn't something men need to be educated out of like leaving their firth pants on the floor. Idiot.

Crap.

3 strikes and you are out.

Why should a woman be beaten three times before her abuser is punished? What about women who do not live to the third time.

Yes, women find it difficult to leave, but this is because they have been trained over months and years to accept abuse, first emotional then physical.

What does making them responsible for their abuse do, other than make the abuser feel that it is not all his fault.

What about women who do leave, and go on to have a normal loving relationship? Where is the power struggle there?

Are you trying to sell this book?

Or are you researching for a paper that you are writing?

Either way, it is not acceptable to do so under the guise of wanting to help women.

We are fed the work at your marriage line all the time even when in danger. Womenstay because they have been convinced they are somehow part of the problem this enforces that. Also all the it is a strength to stay etc no it isn't the only real advce should be to leave.

Sorry about awful I pad grammar etc

You again?

Shouldn't you be nurturing your wife?

Load of crap, OP. Dangerous crap at that. And plenty of women do leave, I'm one of them.

OP I've reported you. It takes two to tango eh? Very dangerous propaganda.

In what world can a woman simply ring the police and "have" her partner imprisoned?

I think this is all too black and white, there are many reasons why women stay with a violent partner, not all of them are because she doesn't feel empowered enough to leave.

I am a bit aghast that the solution to DV is to play mind games with dangerous people.

What a stupid and dangerous idea.