Shameless x-post:

Ok that's enough now. I have milk in my boobs but the little sod won't work at getting it!!!

Have you noticed how nobody on mn ever has really crap let down? It's all 'when my let down kicks in there are floods in Norfolk and it gushes out of the side of my dc's mouth to run out to sea'. I'm here to stand up for the women who have the most rubbish let down ever - I'm one of them. It's not a let down it's a trickle.

HadEnoughOfThisBreastfeedingMalarkeyTiggaxx

Good news Schulte. What a relief for you and little H. Hope Sam's goes as well on the 11th - will let y'all know.

JJ - Ouch, can you express to get some relief?
Holly has a preference too, no idea why.

DH has booked the day off tomorrow so we can take the girls to Longleat. The weather is looking a bit ropey though. Grr.

Also the monkey bit is closed as one has tested positive for simian herpes. Now I may be sleep deprived here but if one, and only one is positive in a closed environment then does that mean someone has been doing the unspeakable with a monkey? Can you get interspecies stds?
Too much for breakfast?

Why won't DD take the right boob??? It's bursting! She's been perfectly fine with it til now, but just got fussy. The start of attention-seeking behaviour perhaps? Along with the new happy shrieking noises [shutting both ears emoticon]

Babies starting to move left right and centre. If we weren't overrun and busy before...

That's so sweet, Puzzle, may the sisterly love continue .

Flippin heck, Springy, just when you really need more support from your nearest (and dearest?). What an ill-informed twit (I love that word).

Boff for nephew. Hope they diagnose quickly so you can all worry less and get on and give him the help he needs.

Hello Conkertree - gosh more mummies popping out of the woodwork that I haven't met yet.

Swine flu not even reported here in Dubai - press control/denial. Worried about unnecessary exposure as going for necessary DD weightcheck at busy clinic on Sat.

Bronze - Hooray for that. Are you a sailor? DH can but we don't have access to a boat. Am jealous.

Ellen was terribly sweet yesterday. An ant crawled towards Holly and she grabbed it dextrously and threw it away from her shouting "get away from my sister!".
I gave her a teacake for her troubles.

we might be getting a family holida dh has agreed to go out on pils boat if we take our best mates with us so there is an adult per child on board. they're up for it so just got to work out the logistics yay

frekkles can I just say you may have been worried how you would cope and everyhting but you seem tobe doing fab and I'm actually jealous of your happy carefree life with your chilled baby (though mines chilled too)

WFH, they get better between 3-10, and then it goes downhill again when they discover crime. I have one thing to say on the matter. It's Thomas Phelan's book '1-2-3 Magic'. Brilliant stuff once you get past the American cheesy writing.

Hello all,

Must continue ironing in a mo but have a wine and crisps break.....

Springy, sorry to hear you're still having domestic difficulties. Can't imagine how anything I say could help but am sending virtual chocolate. Big hugs.

Nutty - swine flu as well? Blimey. As Boff says, something has to go right soon, surely.

Rolling over - Orbit can roll onto his side in either direction, but has very little interest in pursuing this further. When I put him on his tummy he cries until I turn him over again. I think he'd like to skip all this tedious floor stuff and move straight to walking - if you stand him up he beams and beams and beams and chuckles and has really strong legs

frekkles hope you get to go to your festival! Am

I got horribly lost today picking up a filing cabinet I bought on Ebay from Great Malvern. Poor Orbit screamed for about ten minutes straight in the car as he'd completely had enough. So had I.... Then I took him to John Lewis for some fatuous shop assistant comments.

DS1 is being a monkey and driving me to distraction. He answers back, he will not do a single thing you tell him, he argues with everything, and to top it all on Saturday he deliberately peed on the kitchen floor. Am at wits end - Boff, do they improve beyond 3 years old or should I give up now?

Boff, sorry to hear about your nephew's other problems. Poor lamb sounds like he's been dealt a raw deal really

Back to the ironing <<sigh>>

well ladies, we didn't go yet. hopefully shall go tomorrow if the little lad has a good night. he seems much improved after a day on my knee in his pyjamas and so hopefully he'll be better in the morning

my gosh, just realised what's been going on with nutty and springy . i'm so shocked!! can't believe how shitty things are for you both and send you lots of love. you were so kind to me when I needed it last year, if you ever need an ear then you know where i am.

Waves to all, has anyone else had their hv's pulled to man the swine flu front?

Both weigh in's and baby cafe cancelled until further notice. Not bothered about weigh in's more narked that baby cafe can't go ahead without a bloody hv. 99.9% of the time we know more than they do anyway

NotSeeingAdultsOnAWednesdayTiggaxx

We need a new thread soon, can you believe it?

Oddeyes - Good to hear from you. Two holidays, you lucky thing, did you have a good time?
Holly is a dream too, I often forget I have two. Her big sister is quite another matter.

WFH - I wish you had actually said that the the shop assistant.

Springy - Sorry to hear that sweetheart. Does he not understand that his attitude might compound things? That's hardly helpful to George. If he wants to be a responsible parent that includes loving and supporting you the best way he can.

Boff - Holly nevers seems to be where I left her lately.

Hazel rolled over today but with the help of the cot bars - she hooked her foot around one of them and off she went. She's not actually that happy on her tummy, so I had to rescue her straight away She also goes for little expeditions around her cot at night now - I should probably remove the soft toys in the corner?

So potty training seems to have been a success, dare I say it? Had DD1 at home all day because of her cough and sticky eye and she told me every time she needed the potty. Unfortunately she did a massive poo while I was feeding Hazel and there it was, sitting in the potty right next to us, stinking away until H had finished the feed. Yuck.

Boff hope your nephew is okay. Springy and Auld, sorry to hear about DHs being unhelpful. WFH, you could have carried it on your head maybe?

Typing this while waiting for Felix to roll over on his mat. He seems to have done this twice today, but only when we weren't looking, and DS1 found him on his tummy looking confused both times. This time it's a bit like Springwatch in our own living room. We are all sitting here with baited breath, egging him on like cheerleaders from time to time. He has worked his way through 180 degrees, but not actually rolled for us completely yet.

WFH, thanks for that. Sadly my nephew will never be able to live life to the full as he has moderate to severe learning disabilities as well. He has supported housing and was working in a supported job but was pretty unhappy on many levels - I am sure he feels even worse now. Poor chap. We don't know what it is yet and also we will probably have to consider screening our kids as well as nephew is the oldest.

Nutts, SWINE FLU???? I would buy a lottery ticket if I were you. Things can only get better, surely.

Frekkles, wop him in a sling and feed him lots and he'll be fine. There will be dozens more colds before he's left home.

Springy, my knowledge of Huntingdons is confined to the film 'A Life Backwards' which made me cry. Shit. Fuck.

Bronze, I am game for a meet up if you like. I am near Cambridge.

Auld, sorry to hear of your troubles. I would remove the fuse from the computer plug tbh.

helloooooo!
rushing in as internet now working
off to fil's tomorrow on my own with the 2 boys

moving house in a heatwave with a baby, a 4yr old & a dh who spent every evening for 2 wks before the move playing internet chess, who was surprised we weren't ready on the day after that input and whose "holiday" has thus far meant being at work every day, is a recipe for breakdown, marital and mental.

will catch up one day.....

Springy- whenever George cries now pass him to dh. Just claim that you don't want to tip yourself over the edge

Boff- Sorry about your mate. Huntingdons sprung to mind here too but that may because I've been watching House

Frekkles- I would take him, It'll be good for him

If anyones ever in Norfolk just shout. Its chaos here but I domiss being sociable

Springy . Have you let him know it's rude dhs who are most likely to get 'harmed' in the night when their testicles 'accidentally' fall off?!

I have no idea Boff, but Huntington's is what came to mind, we have a friend who's deteriorating because of that, but I think that's a middle age or older persons disease.

WFH I've had a similar experience but it was with DH!

well dds no better but thankfully dh doesnt seem to have it

Bleu it does sound like more but make sure you are hydrated as the thirst will be giving you headaches and might even be the sicky feeling too.

I have such itchy feet, I need to go camping on something but dh is chicken (frekkles your pics did not help at all) trying to convince him that we could cope with his parents boat if we took our best mates along too

Very, very quick drop in (massive marital issues including 'I'm only here for George. You can't be left alone with him - you hear all sorts about mothers with PND' ) - Boff, perhaps Huntington's?

Daft Shop Assistants, numeber 40178:

In John Lewis to return toaster which blew up the other day. I have:

- 16lb Orbit, in a Baby Bjorn sling on my front
- handbag over one shoulder
- changing bag over other shoulder

New toaster is in box about the size of one of those plastic crates you store toys in. We're talking large, 4 slice toaster, with all the packaging nonsense that entails.

Shop assistant says: 'Would you like a bag, or shall I just put some tape on it?'



Erm, which part of the packhorse (i.e. me) am I going to be able to strap it to if you don't put it in a bag, please?

D'oh.

Catch up in a bit, must get food.

hello you lot! long time no chat!
how is it all going then? miss having the time to sit and chat with you all. hope it is all going really well for you all with your families.
we are good. just back from two lovely holidays. eleanor is a dream. poor little thing, she is so good we often forget about her her big brother is so much more vocal and demanding.
no time to catch up although hope to be back soon to catch up.
sorry to see some of you have swine flu.
tkae care
oddeyes.x

Boff - Sorry, no idea. What rotten luck. Does it have a name?.
WFH's post sounds quite positive.

Conker - Have a fab time. I shall pray to the sun gods for you.

Frekkles - Nothing like fresh air, I say go.

Nutty - Big hugs and kisses to P, I hope she makes a speedy recovery.

Boff/Bicnod - I find counting the calories bearable if I allow myself to eat treats on a Saturday.
I also remind myself, when I get tempted, of Steven Tyler of Aerosmith's mantra:'nothing tastes as good as thin feels' It works about 90% of the time.

Boff - I'd be up for some kind of eating healthily buddy system... not sure how it could work but I need to do something as I hate myself for eating junk and all I do at the moment is eat junk...

Oscar had his worst night in a long time last night. Poor little mite came down with a stinking cold <guilty bad mummy for taking Oscar swimming emoticon> and couldn't feed, couldn't breathe through his nose, was choking (VERY scary - had to bang his back a couple of times in the night to get the mucous up so he could breathe) and generally pretty scary night. I didn't sleep a wink - was just watching him all night worrying he seems a bit brighter this morning thankfully, still very snuffly and snotty but smiling and managed a bit of a feed... he'll be dropping off the 98th percentile if this goes on for much longer

Nutty - poor you swine flu on top of everything else is just not fair.

Oh no, the Swine flu is really going round now... one of my NCT friends just cancelled tomorrow's get together as her toddler has it. He was only poorly for a day though.

So much to do today. Mom and Aunt are coming to stay for a little over a week...need to clear off beds or they'll be sleeping on the floor...

Nutty not swine flu too poor you guys.

marking the spot.

dd1 has suspected swine flu....... what more can go wrong grrrrrr xxx

love to you all. xxxx

Waves to all.

frekkles you need to do what feels right. I'd probably go but then that's my comfort zone. You need to do what you feel is right

Bit jealous of the festival

GoingToAFestivalNextYearTiggaxx

some advice if you will ladies!

meant to be going to the wickerman festival today.

Harris and I have had a cold since monday. He's not desperately ill still smily, but he's snuffly, sneezing and coughing a little, all he's interested in doing is suckling and falling asleep on me.

Should i go? bearing in mind i'll be camping and the forecast is for rain. obviously i'll keep him warm and dry in the bell tent, and we're camping backstage so it's not so busy and has better facilities. and i'll feed him and carru him in a sling constantly as much as he likes and needs.

but somehow it doesn't feel right to go. it's his first cold so i'm not sure what's normal really, saw the health visitor yesterday who just said he's fine, alert and all. Just feed him and cuddle him and he'll get better.

what to do?

Hello all

Am barely keeping up at the moment - oh no DS1 just menacing E on the baby gym. Thought it was too good to be true when I managed to put him down for 5 mins.

Bleu if your wrist is RSI, then I've had that for years. Physio is excellent, everything else is hopeless and splinting is downright bad for it - can tell you more if it turns out to be RSI and you need to know.

Right must go

Boffin Mum - in haste, I know very little about degenerative neurological conditions, but a close friend of DPs has one. He was diagnosed about 15 years ago (when he was about 20? Maybe earlier, I wasn't around then) and although now his walking is impaired (he uses a walker on wheels for balance), he still continues to live life to the full, and in fact got married this year (that was the wedding in Austria I couldn't go to because Orbit was tiny).

So although it might not be the same thing, I just wanted to let you know that I had come across one where the person in question is still a happy, thriving individual

Hope your nephew's case is mild and sending big hugs xxxx

Hi folks - just the usual dash in and dash out. Only read back a wee bit so no doubt missed lots, but Boffin - sounds like you handled the nicking money very well. Guess most kids do it at some point.

We're off to Iona for a week on Sat (and camping on Friday - could be a disaster, but hopefully not). Iona should be lovely as long as it doesnt rain all week.

Angus doesnt poo for a day or two and then has three or four poos in a row.

Will try and pop on this week a bit and see how you all are properly.

BTW we have just found out my grown up nephew has some kind of degenerative neurological condition, and we don't know what it is. He has to have genetic testing. We thought it was his asperger's and when he started falling over his own feet, we just kept telling him off! Does anyone know anything about this type of thing?

Bicnod, thanks for the compliment. He apologised to me very nicely again, and told me he loved me. He played with his brother a lot better again today, and his behaviour was somewhat improved, although a little teenagerish around the edges. He made a nice supper of sandwiches for the two of them on request, and helped me to put away the ironing. He even spontaneously used deoderant instead of me nagging him. I think I may be able to keep him out of borstal yet.

I am also eating total crap at the moment, btw. Please can everyone encourage me to keep on with the core foods and organise my eating better? Otherwise I will have to buy an entire new work wardrobe in a few weeks' time, plus I am feeling very self-conscious about being so large.

Evening girls... I'm down at my mum and dad's this week and Oscar is loving playing with his big cousins (my brother and sister live nearby with their LOs)

I took him swimming today for the first time and he loved it - even dunked his head under a couple of times and he was fine... I'm thinking of doing some sort of swimming classes with him - anyone else doing that? Any recommendations?

Right - quick catch up before mum and dad come back with fish and chips (yum yum)

Schulte - I always cry at the doc, don't feel bad about that ever. Great news about Hazel's heart. I think worrying about everything is just part of the deal when you're a new mummy unfortunately - I too worry about everything

Juw - sometimes I don't leave the house for days on end. Sometimes I plan to just stay in for a few days. We're new mummies, we can do what we like. Oscar talks with the bookshelves and the hall light and he chats away to the fridge, so he's clearly getting all he needs in terms of building social skills

JumJane - hello sorry haven't said hello before... I am cauliflower head

Boff - I hope I handle Oscar in the future as fantastically as you handled your DS. How was he the next day?

Bleu - could you see a different GP? Waking up feeling sick every morning is clearly not right.

On the subject of poos (seems to have been a bit of discussion around what's normal) - Oscar poos between 6 and 8 times a day and they are always VERY runny (nice). They are usually yellow but sometimes a bit green. I think anywhere between 0 and 8 poos a day is normal at this stage. Some of my antenatal group friends' babies poo as much as Oscar and some poo once every 2 or 3 days... I believe there is a wide spectrum of pooing normality...

I am feeling a bit smug as I went for a run yesterday for the first time since I was 20 weeks pregnant and managed 4.4km without stopping I have managed to counterbalance the smugness with self-loathing today however as I troughed maltesers, cake, chocolate bar, cheese and more cake - and am about to eat fish and chips oh well.

Still haven't had a chance to stalk you all on facebook but from what I've seen of people's profile pics so far you're a lovely looking bunch

Bleu - How awful for your cousin. Stories like that really make me count my blessings.
I also think you need to demand to be taken seriously by you GP.

Kali - Not OTT, sound slike he needed a short sharp shock to me. I hope you get more help in the future.

Frekkles - You sound really happy. It's lovely.

I've got like every other of the hypothyroidism stuff... things i never even thought could be possible problems...very interesting. I shall at least call it to their attention.

Ask at reception whether there is a particular doctor who is good with thyroid problems. That might help.

Interesting...it is the index and thumb that are the problem; I think I may go back again. I'll request a different doctor too as I always seem to get the same guy. Maybe I'll actually make an appointment rather than just 'walking in' because I've had enough too...

Funnily enough Bleu, after about 6-8 weeks postpartum, you should feel largely back to normal, apart from excess weight, leaky boobs and the normal tiredness from having interrupted sleep, that kind of thing. If you feel so wrong then there is most likely a problem. Don't let blokes tell you otherwise!! If it's not PND then it needs further investigation.

Thyroid wrist pain tends to be a bit like RSI-type pain. With me my little fingers didn't work properly and the other fingers were a bit stiff as well. However more typically people get problems with the thumb and index finger, so I was unusual. It's all to do with increased fluid levels causing pressure on the radial and ulnal nerves.

I'd insist on a thyroid test and if possible even compare it to levels when pg, if you had them tested then (they may have done).

Yeah I've got an aching wrist too which I was categorically told was because I'm not used to lifting the baby and it's being strained... I almost dropped my plate the other evening though because it gave out on me because the pain was too great I couldn't hold on...only Dh's quick reactions saved my dinner from being lost (well except the beans -which I wasn't looking forward to anyway )

I am feeling a little... um... 'pushed aside' perhaps is the right wording. I know that a lot of things are my body 'getting back in order/shape' but how much stuff do you have to put up with? I do wonder if I'm just being a big baby, but in all honesty I don't feel right and it's not like some days are good and some are bad it's pretty much like long forecasted rain- just a bunch of blah with occasional heavier showers which make me rather stay in bed...

Bleu, I am surprised the GP didn't check for a thyroid problem with those symptoms. It's terribly common after a birth, and the one thing about thyroid disease is that you end up having loads of random symptoms that seem to make no sense until you get your thyroxine regulated and they go away.

I get the tired/thirsty/mood swings thing. I got the pale and breathless thing after having DD. I also got aching wrists, some gynae problems and funnily enough my hearing deteriorated, plus I used to put on about 5lbs in a week sometimes.

Sometimes it helps to go to a GP who is sympathetic towards looking at thyroid blood results as well as symptoms. You may be on the threshold of being low/high for you, and a very low dose of something might help move you towards normal.

also have questions about maxi cosi seat placed in the middle here any thoughts/stories would be appreciated

Bleu, I think you should get another opinion. Being tired, hormonal and thirsty is definitely normal, but feeling sick and being pale etc. doesn't sound like nothing to me.

Boff, I too used to pinch the occasional quid from my mum's purse when I was a kid . Sounds like your DS won't be doing it again in a hurry though!

to everyone's LOs who've got swine flu - hope they're better soon.

Feeling very at the moment because DH and I have been arguing like cat and dog for weeks now and this morning we had an almighty bust up. DH has been very 'busy' with work recently (though IMO he's been spending a lot of time faffing about and not actually achieving anything...), so I've been left looking after A about 90% of the time. I'm completely knackered because A was up around 10 times again last night (which DH slept through! ) so this morning I really wanted to just go into town for a couple of hours to wind down and have a bit of peace. So I asked him if he would look after A for a while. We then had a massive argument over him being busy all the time and not doing his fair share (he doesn't have a paid full-time job at the moment, but has a grant to carry out a project, so can be very flexible about when he works). In the end I stomped out and left him with no choice. Was that a bit OTT?

Bleu - I have thyroid issues but don't recognise any of the symptoms you've listed, apart from tiredness. Poor you. Insist on another blood test?

Stressed new mum! That you are, Bleu, though the waking up feeling physically sick 8/10 doesn't quite add up for me. Your GP doesn't sound very sympathetic, esp if you've come away feeling it's 'nothingness' when it obviously isn't. Can you see another doc?

WFH's DS is so very clever - amazing what they pick up without you even realising. Little sponges.

Boff - sounds like you did the right thing calmly laying down the law straight away, though lol at the 8pm/8am mixup.

Hello Frekkles, nice to meet you, and happy camping

Schulte - squeezing onto tube and trains in rush hour, yikes, esp with pram! How long is the journey? Have you got a babysling?

Ju - ooh yum I love madeleines. DH does all the cooking round here, as it stresses me out. I'm ok though if I can follow a recipe to the letter, so a bit of homebaking might surprise him. And I need to learn more for when DD is a bit older. When I was pregnant DH bought me a family cookbook (the dozens of gourmet ones on the shelves are his) and inscribed it "Just making sure if I'm out 'dot' gets fed." Resolve to try harder to be less rubbish at cooking.

Oops can hear grizzling, hungry monster, must attend.

I'm still taking pregnacare vitamins (though in all honesty I don't remember every day may 3 or 4 days out of 7...so perhaps I should try to be more consistent)
I did wonder about diabetes or thyroid...but not sure.

Hmmmm - some of that sounds like I'm feeling, other bits don't. Thirsty - check, from bf. Tired - check, but you sound off the scale. Hormonal mood swings - check.

Throw uppy, headaches etc, they don't sound right.

Have you considered diabetes? Sounds rubbish, but giving birth and bf do really take it out of you - are you taking a multi vitamin or anything? Might be worth doing that just to build yourself up a bit?

Really hope you feel better soon

So I'm not well...but there's apparently nothing wrong with me as can be found by the gp. And I don't know what exactly to do...
I'm tired, dreadfully tired even after sleeping loads.
I'm thirsty often.
I'm having mood swings leading to verbal outbursts or tears for no real reason.
I feel ill 8 out of 10 mornings (throw uppy).
I'm headachey lots too.
I'm pale and breathless lots of the times.

All the obvious has been checked: PND test(edinbourgh) a negative, bloods for low iron negative, BP normal (if not low), not pregnant, no virus, no illness, no nothing. 'You're just a new mother and are finding it stressful.' But I really don't feel like that is it. I don't feel right. I'm not normal (not even my usual abnormal normal). But what else could it be? How far should I pursue things and keep going back to the GP about 'nothingness'? Any ideas? Do my symptoms sound like what the rest of you are experiencing? Am I just a stressed new mum?

Oh Bleu how sad for your cousin.

Might give the J+J stuff a try.

Good news Schulte. I have to say that I don't worry all that much (which does worry me sometimes) but all I do when I start getting worried is look at M and I see she's really happy and healthy so the general does not bother me and I do my best not to put her in the way of dangers otherwise. But (((hugs))because I do get niggles which I know if I let them would drive me completely insane.

poor you bronze; I hate when they're snotty.

fingers crossed for the cardi Schulte

WFH that's very good! You must be very proud of DS

Ju you certainly have been doing a lot of baking... (I'm very jealous) would you whip me up some chocolate chip cookies? I've been wanting some for ages, but never seem to have the time.

Puzzle I quite agree that flowers and a general congrats is good until they're farther along as you never know... (my cousin in law lost a baby recently in the womb and she was 20 weeks very sad and it's her second baby death -tho they did have a living child about 2 years ago)

Meg's hair is longish in places, but not in others...so it's a very 'stylish' shaggy look popular as a boy's style...which is why she gets called a boy an awful lot...that, and I tend not to dress her in soft pink all the time. I was thinking of cutting it in places, but realised the only way it could all be even is if I gave her a buzz or a mohawk but both seem a bit out of place on her. I got some j' and j's detangle conditioner and it seems to be helping.

Schulte, that is wonderful news.

Oh no Bronze, does that mean your DH is getting it as well? Fingers crossed for all of you that you stay healthy.

So good news for us today, nothing wrong with Hazel's heart. The cardiologist was great, very relaxed and H was ever so good smiling at him and lying perfectly still while he did the ultrasound. She did try to eat the cable though at one point

So it's just an innocent heart murmur and one item that I can tick off my worry list now. B52, hope you get the same result.

Does anyone else here find that they can't stop worrying about things? I have always been an awful pessimist but with 2 children it's getting a bit much now. I hope I'll get over it at some point and just accept that they will be ill all the time.

Schulte- no they're not doing blood tests anymore just the doctor diagnosing

dh woke up this morning watched tv for 10 minutes then kicked in with a raging temperature ahhhh

Izy is snotty and unable to breathe properly and though thats not the flu it did mean I spent all night sat up with him

Made madeleines yesterday - have to say that cake that comes in handy bite-sized portions is a Very Bad Idea, especially when alone in house!

Eggs on toast - om nom nom!

WFH that is well clever of your DS.

hey hey!

i'm just back from holiday in the outer hebrides (thanks for your kind comments on my fb photos) and am off to wickerman festival on the morro! we just bought a bell tent yesterday which should come tommorow too. most exciting. harris turning into a total charmer too. lots of fun to be around. He giggles when he farts just now and rolls his eyes at this dad!

hope you're all ok xx

much love x

Have just ordered he flowers but nice idea Schulte, I will do that in a month or two when she a bit further along.
I will be thinking of you today also. Fingers crossed for you.

Good luck at the cardi's Schulte. Thinking of you and little H.

Bronze, did they test your DD for swine flu? Glad she's getting better. With my DD1 having the sniffles and coughing, I am wondering what to do... I assume as long as she doesn't have a fever, it can't be the flu? Also she's been a bit snotty for a couple of days now and surely the flu starts 'properly' straight away? Am very worried that nursery will send her home because I need to take H to see the cardiologist today and I won't be able to get back home quickly if needed...

Puzzle, what great news. Why don't you send her a pregnancy survival kit? As in mother-to-be bath oil, chocolate, RLT?

Good morning

WFH - Clever boy, you must have been so excited.

BB - Thanks, i'll order some now.
The girls have cousins on my side but as my sisters are a fair bit older, they range from 11 - 20 yrs old. It will be great for them to have a cousin of a similar age.

Bronze - who has swine flu?

puzzle yes you can bundle baby congrats with engagement congrats!!! and flowers are always lovely! how exciting -

wfh - yay for ds1 - look at your little genius!!

sorry for delay

surprise yes it is swineflu but its no worse thana bad bug. None of the rest of us have got it (fingers crossed) and I think she son the mend now

Trying to catch up with the million posts

. I suppose that is better than actually missing whole days. I have done that a few times in my misspent youth.

DH's just got a call from one of his brothers. His fiance is pregnant and due in Jan. We are so excited.
I know it's a bad omen to send a congrats card but would it be ok to send flowers? Or something else? They just announced their engagement so it could be a general congrats, no?

Excellent - no wonder he seemed outraged at being sent back to bed! He was probably wondering just how many days he'd have to serve in the guest room.

We are feeling proud of DS1 today - earlier in the week he was in the bath with his friend Sam, and using his bath crayons he spontaneously wrote his name on the side of the bath (oddly, in mirror writing, but it seems this is very common in children his age). Now bear in mind that although we've showed him his name written down and spelled it out for him, we've never taught him to write. I assumed he'd learned it at nursery, but I asked his nursery manager today and she said they haven't taught him anything like that. So he has just spontaneously learned to write the letters and acquired the skill with a crayon to reproduce them.

The S was a bit wobbly, but otherwise they were pretty perfect!

Hehehe!
The saga of the young criminal continues.

He came down at about 8 and apologised, and we had a bit of a chat about it all. He was reasonably sorry, but eventually I sent back to bed. He seemed outraged at this, so I assumed he was not truly contrite.

His dad came home and went up for a man-to-man chat. It transpired that DS1 had had a bit of a kip and as it was still light, had woken up assuming it was 8am, and that he had been up there for 15 hours, and that his dad had popped in before leaving for work!!! Hence his anger at being sent back up there.

This event has a particular resonance for this household, as his dad once was doing shift work, and woke up at 5 ready for his next shift, ate his cornflakes, shaved and so on, and drove off to work. He was baffled at the amount of traffic, and then it dawned on him - he was 12 hours early!!! It was 5pm the day before!!! He had just gone to bed!!!

I stole money from my mum when I was about 8-10 as well. To buy chocolate. I figured it was for a good cause, and she never found out. And I don't feel very bad about it either, should I? Boff, well done, it's a parenting challenge I am sure.

So DD1 is snotty and coughing - for a change - it's ongoing illnesses in the Schulte household. Should I send her to nursery tomorrow, or not?

I did see that Puzzle - the stage version is also coming to Bath in the autumn, we might take DS1 along! Hooray for Gruffaloes - we have all the Donaldson books except for the one about the giant - never liked that one much.

BoffinMum I think you have behaved admirably - not sure I'd have kept my cool like that! I shouldn't think he'll turn into a career criminal, especially as he SO clearly knew he'd done wrong. I can still remember that sinking feeling when you get caught doing something wrong, yikes.

Must be a hard one to face though, have yourself a stiff gin nice cup of tea x

WFH - Do you know that they are making an animated version of the Gruffalo for Christmas tv. I'm terribly excited as Ellen loves Julia Donaldson's books.
We found Monkey Puzzle when she was tiny and had to buy it as by conincidence that was her nickname (now Puzz).

Boff - Sounds like you handled that brilliantly.
I had a short phase of being a bit light fingered in the sweet shop when I was younger. The disappointment on my Mum's face was sufficient to keep me out of trouble ever again. I have no crimnal convictions.

[walks off muttering darkly "because they haven't caught me yet" mwah ha ha]

As a child criminal myself (7yr-10yr!) i think he can be reformed.
I used to steal money from mom and dad for sweets and things...and considering we didn't have a lot of money when I was little it was doubly bad (at the time I just focussed on the fact that I could not have sweets and treats like my friends had...never mind my 4 sisters...)
i think you did right by showing severe disappointment and being strict with the punishment.he knew it was wrong and expected punishment. another talk about trust and your now lack of it in him might do too ( i wa never so horrified as when my parents calmly stated they felt they'd not be able to trust me for quite some time..)

I caught DS1 stealing money out of my purse!!!!!!!!!!!! £6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It came about like this. He had a friend over today, and they were joined by another friend. I treated them all to a picnic in the field out the back with all their favourite things. They were pretty 'orrible to his little brother who came home to hang out with me instead. DS then started running in and out of the house leaving the door wide open, restlessly, picking the baby up and then putting him down straight away, snapping at DS2, stealing biscuits, that sort of thing. Finally he came to me and said his friend had £3 on him so they were going to the newsagents. I then insisted he take his brother, and went to my bag to get out some spending money for them. My bag was open. The change from DS2's ice cream this morning was missing, and I realised immediately what had happened. DS1 then said 'Kill me now' in a sullen voice.

I resisted the temptation to beat him with a sharp stick, and instead called his friends over, and explained DS1 had been very naughty and they had to go home. They asked what he had done, but I said I would respect his confidence by not telling them. I then made DS1 shower and put his pyjamas on and do his teeth, and I have put him to bed at 5pm with two books and a jug of water, in the guest room (i.e. no exciting things to do). He is only allowed to leave the room to go to the loo and he is not allowed to talk to anyone. In other words, he is effectively in prison, all the more so because he thrives on interaction with other people.

Have I done the right thing?? Will he end up a career criminal???

I'm worried for you all worried about swine flu, I guess hunkering down til it passes is a more realistic option now the schools are breaking up (for those with older DCs).

Kali - proud of you for the pram wheel puncture repair - I'd have been calling out for the RAC. <Makes mental note to learn how to do it before it happens>

So after sleeping all morning, M reawakes with renewed vigour, and proceeds to .........drum roll.............. roll over!!!!!!! By herself, front to back, right after being rolled by me from back to front. And then looks up at me with big eyes expecting applause. Which she gets (along with a few tears - mine). Let the fun begin.

one of those weekends... leading into i fear, one of those weeks...
i'm just not right... though nothing seems to be wrong either apparently...

Seem

My neck that is, not A's!

Hi all.

Well, my siblings and their partners have all recovered from swineflu with no ill effects. Thank goodness! [relieved emoticon]

Had a bit of a rubbish night last night - A was up and down like a yo yo, though on the bright side he's napped quite well today. See to have slept in an awkward position and now have a stiff neck....

I feel very virtuous and smug after repairing the puncture in the pram wheel! I celebrated by taking A out for a walk and buying some Subway cookies which I ate on the way home! Nom nom!

Re pooing - A used to go like clockwork once a day at 10am, but now only goes once every few days at very random times. These poos are a lot more solid and sticky than they used to be. I suppose that means he's using up all his milk? He's also having a growth spurt and is feeding like a milk monster - where has my lovely dinky little newborn gone?????

MMMmm lemon tarts and decaff coffee. We have run out of decaff.

A mini catchup but can't stay for long. Have bribed DS1 with icing (we made bread because we'd run out and DS1 decided it all needed icing, so half of it is sticky buns )

Re swine flu, I'm scared and don't know what to do till E is vaccinated, or at least operated on. I think it is currently looking unlikely he'll get his surgery in Sept. I don't know if I'll manage being besieged in our house though - already have had moments of wanting to kill DS1 and it's only been half a day [guilt]. Realistically, our plan is to try to stay away from crowds, public transport etc. etc. for a week or so and see what the news is like then.

Re pooing, Surprise don't worry. E hardly ever goes. DS1 was the same, except it was always a mega-poo-tastrophe when he did go. With E it's just a largeish poo and it's only once a week at the moment, so you can see why I've been stressing about his intake.

Re routine E likes to sleep all morning and is occasionally putdownable for a couple of hours sleep after 9pm provided he's slept on one of us for a couple of hours first (and you're then lucky at putting him in his cot). Other than that it's anything goes.

WFH our DS1s sound very similar. Philip will never voluntarily exercise himself as a general rule so I spend a lot of time stressing and frogmarching him about the place (by far the easiest way of exercising him is just to walk to where we want to go so SF siege is doubly awkward). If he doesn't get exercise he pings off the walls at bedtime. Having said that, I'm not worried about his telly intake, which I limit to an hour a day but often he doesn't take his full entitlement and regularly forgets to watch any. He watched shedloads (technical term) when I was pregnant. Just utterly utterly shedloads - though he only watches videos, not live tv as he's awkward about what he wants to watch and can't accept that what he wants isn't on and you can't rewind it

Ju us slow gainers get all the fun of the growth spurt behaviour (feeding like a nutter) without anything noticeable to show for it. God I hope Edmund is okay.

There you go then. Nice and piping hot. (maybe not a good idea with baby around! Have it whatever temperature you wish!)

Milk please no sugar thanks!

One cup of decaff coffee coming up do you need milk and sugar? (we only have chewy milk Im afraid)

And of course you MUST eat them now!!

I've got two lemon tarts here... do I eat them now or later?

And could someone make me a cup of decaf coffee to go with them please?

Thanks for all the info Boff, I know it is probable we will get it at some point. Not as bad as manflu though is it

All this talk of poo's is worrying me now. E only goes once every other day most of the time, occasionally once a day. When she was born she didn't go for 5 days and the Paediatrician was called but then she went and was okay. She doesn't seem to get tummyache or anything though.

Schulte - hope all goes okay at the doctors.

Aaah, bribery. The only way to get DD1 to sit on the potty!

So, back from docs. It was eerily quiet in the waiting room - he said it's partly because people are on holiday, partly because of the flu. I asked him if he'd seen any babies with swine flu yet and he said yes, three of them, who were all okay apart from a high temperature, and had been given tamiflu.

Predictably, he wasn't concerned about this ongoing pooing at all and just said to hang in there and it will clear up at some point. So I'll hang in there...

H needing attention...

Hi - just a quicky! DH has made a miraculous recovery! He got up at 7 am and went to work! I do suspect he is still feeling ill but he can't be as poorly as he was last night or he wouldn't have been able to go in.

Well, first day of hols and DS's slept til 9 then quietly took themselves off to play on the Wii, DD woke at 10 am!!! Bless her, she knows mummy was tired. I have my 96 year old gran coming round today so I hope she will be in a good mood for her now!

Have a good day all!

Thank you for telling me about your telly habits, btw, all. Makes me feel better. We went for a 2.5km walk in the woods on Saturday which made me feel better about DS1's activity levels. His walk was much longer due to plunging around in the undergrowth looking for bear traps and Gruffaloes with DP (wonder where he got the ticks, ) and he only started begging for the buggy board right at the end. We got him to finish on foot with the promise of an icecream

Juwesm all boys need is to be friends with their mothers, I wouldn't take H out ever if I were you. Then when he's 35 he can still be living at home and co-sleeping with you, and you'll never lose him to a terribly floozy....

Seriously though if you're knackered and don't want to go out, then don't! Although a quick walk round the block normally does make me feel a bit better, especially if I manage not to look so demented that people stare.

What are these growth spurts of which you speak? None of that malarkey around here!

If I never leave the house, will H grow up to be entirely lacking in social skills? Surely a bit of a wiggle on the old playmat each day is all that is required?

JJ maybe she's just having a lazy day? H sometimes sleeps loads after a day of being very active, I think it's just catching up on missed naps.

Hi - yes I am taking Hazel back to the docs. Unfortunately it's the same idiot we saw last time so I haven't got any hopes that we'll learn anything new. I THINK she does fewer wees now though so I will mention that to him. It's hard to tell when you have to change the nappies so often that they don't get a chance to get wet really.

5 poos so far this morning, all of them green and very liquid. I think it's gone on too long for a growth spurt, too. Maybe she had a virus and is now allergic to something I eat on a daily basis? Who knows

Sorry to bore you all with my accounts of H's poos but I really am worried, and fed up. Actually I expect I'll cry at the docs

Bicnod that sounds like a beautiful routine. What little predictability we had has all gone out the window since the diarrhoe started.

Firstly, Surprise, what a worry you poor thing, hope it turns out to be no more than manflu.

Why is the Millster still sleeping? She woke up at 6, then 9, then noon for big fuss-free feeds and has conked out again... After a whole weekend of virtually no naps, and playing beautifully with DH and our friends. Starting to think she's bored of my company.

Morning everyone

Tigga - don't pout lovely, I think I've managed to add everyone now on FB - if I've missed anyone please shout, tis not on purpose I'm just Mrs cauliflower head at the moment...

So our grand plan of getting O to only wake up once in the night for feeds has been scuppered by the 12 week growth spurt, which appears to have arrived bang on time... he fed 3 times last night and refused to go back into his cot after the 4.30am feed so slept on me for the remainder of the night <props eyes open with matchsticks>

DH is heading back to London today leaving me with O at my parents for the week. DH is not normal - he is cycling home. Bearing in mind we are currently in the New Forest that is not a short distance. Weirdo. Anyway, I'm going to miss him but think I'll probably end up getting more sleep every cloud and all that...

Suprise - I agree with Boff, although its horrible thinking it could be swine flu its definitely preferable to get it now and build up immunity to it rather than to get it once it has mutated. I know that's easy to say when my DH hasn't got it - how is he feeling today? Sending hugs to you all...

Schulte - Are you taking H back to the doc? Is he ok apart from nappies? How old is he? The HV said that green nappies can sometimes be sign of growth spurt. She also said that as long as you are getting lots of wet nappies and the poo is green but not foamy then its ok. Also, O always does about 8 nappies a day, so might just be the way he is?

Your question about routines: O has put himself into a bit of a routine. He wakes up at 7am, has a brief feed and is knackered enough for a 1/2 hour nap at 9am. He then feeds somewhere around 9.30/10am and naps at around 11.30/12.00ish for a couple of hours (if I can get him to stay down for that long - usually best in car or puschair... he very rarely naps for 2 hours in his cot but he really needs it otherwise he's grumpy all afternoon). He then feeds somewhere between 1pm and 2pm, then has another half hour nap at around 4pm/4.30pm. He then feeds again around 5pm, bathtime at 6.30pm, final feed at 7pm then bed. That's where the routine ends - he then gets up anywhere between 2 and 6 times in the night to scream, feed or both.

We've been trying to get him to only wake once in the night to feed... before this growth spurt I was getting away with just feeding him once but he was still waking 3 or 4 times and needing to be settled - so not sure if it was going to work in the end. I'm beginning to think he'll just do it when he's ready and there's not a lot I can do to help him on his way (unfortunately )

Right... better go as O is crying and I'm suposed to be going for a run with my SIL...

x x x

Also having had nasty flu followed by an awful case of pneumonia five years ago, I know it's possible to survive this sort of thing even if you get a really bad dose - it's just a case of lots of antibiotics and a month off work. I found the neighbours were absolutely brilliant when this happened to me, and the GPs very efficient and professional.

Interestingly there were four of us in the village that had this pneumonia at the same time, all the same age, but we didn't know each other personally (my theory is we must all have been queuing up together in the post office or something).

Surprise, it is perfectly possible to get normal flu at the moment, and it not to be swine flu - we had this a few weeks ago when they had to swab DD. She had all the symptoms of a rather virulent case, and if she hadn't been swabbed I would have assumed it was swine flu. Indeed the GP was pretty convinced and came over in protective clothing and all that.

Another way of seeing swine flu is that the earlier you get it, the less time you have to be worried about it. As the predictions for the duration of the pandemic range from 2-4 years I would rather be one of the people who gets it this autumn rather than in 3.5 years' time with the possibility hanging over me all the time until then. Certainly the departmental contingency plan I am writing is working on the basis of us all keeling over at once sometime between late October and Christmas, given that we work with students.

Good morning

Surprise - I hope you managed to get some rest. I wish DS a speedy recovery. Please try not to worry, easy for me to say I know, I know of a three children now who have most likely had swine flu and all have been fine after the best part of a week.
I think that the bug DH and I had may have even been swine flu and whilst Ellen got a bit of a raised temperature she was fine as was Holly.
I am so glad you had a good night out. A wee bit jealous too.

Schulte - Could you perhaps see another doctor?

Morning. Surprise, how is DH today? Does sound like the flu

WFH, H has also started waking twice a night again. She still does very liquid and often greenish poos ALL the time - maybe 8 a day - so I think something has upset her system. I really hope things will get back to normal soon because I am soooo fed up of changing nappies three times an hour. Surely it can't be a virus as it's gone on for so long now?

Does anyone on here try to get their babies to feed and nap at roughly the same times every day? I am wondering if I should start trying to get H into a bit of a routine and if that would help with the sleeping (probably not with the pooing...)

ok, there are a few typos there , please ignore!

hello, just popped on as I Can't sleep. DH is poorly. He feels sick, has a really bad head, is shivering, sneezing and temp is 38. he has gone and taken himself off to sleep in E's room as she's in here with me and he doesn't want to pass it on. Am terrified it's swine flu. Me and DS1 been sneezing all day but our temps are low, in fact DS1's is 34.9! Me, DS2 and DD are 36 degrees.

Nice to hear from you again Electra

Anyway, hope none of you will read this tonight and that you are all tucked up in bed!

Me and DH had our first night out alone last night! Cinema and for a meal. I left her EBM in the form of a 4 oz bottle and a 5 oz bottle. I fed her at 6 pm, before I went and by 9 pm she had also had both bottles and gone to sleep for the night! But through the night and all this morning by boobs were going crazy with overflow I think not feeding her myself from 6 pm until she woke at 9 am this morning and with all the extra stimulation from the pump during the previous day, they have been a little confused today!

We had a nice night thoughm, did us good I think

Night night all, will have a quick read through before I go. Seems quite quiet on here today though.

WFH - I wondered why you were talking about Boff's baby for a minute and then realised Orbit is not in fact his real name.

oh blimey, yes, we had a poonami incident this morning, and one yesterday. I think Orbit has stepped up his appetite and is pooing more too!

Found two ticks on DS1 today after a walk in the woods yesterday - yuk. Pulled them off with tweezers as advised on netdoctor, then DP and I had to strip and check each other this evening all over. Could have been fun, if we weren't so knackered!

Off to bed shortly, Felix is waking twice a night now after sleeping through for so long, bum. Or even, bum gravy

I also love MN. Where else can you write 'juxtaposition of philosophies' in one sentence, and 'bum gravy' in the next.

xposts Schulte!

Arrow Radiocars are brilliant if they are still going. I would send a cab.

Hello Electra - nice to see you again!

WFH, mine watch a fair bit of telly (after 5 on weekdays and Saturday and Sunday mornings so we can have a bit of a lie in, plus Saturday evenings if something like Dr Who is on). DS1, the biggest telly watcher, is off the scale of creative, and pretty slim and active really. I do try to steer them away from adverts though, as all the nagging does my head in.

In our last house the people in the other half of the semi were a ostentateously leftie anti-telly academic couple, and they didn't even possess one. They sneered at us about letting our kids watch it. Their kids' interpretation of creativity was beating each other up in the back garden, locking their mum out of the house and laughing nastily at her, and chucking stones at our toddler over the hedge. Meanwhile our kids were creating artworks and little plays and puppet shows based on what they were seeing on the telly, and things like that, in a cliched cute child fashion. It was a delicious schadenfreude-inducing juxtaposition of philosophies.

Schulte, classic bum gravy incident today - big noise then oozing like the Quatermass experiment up the back of the nappy and Felix's shorts, spilling over my hand. I had to cup my hand to keep it from dripping onto my friend's sofa, while she ran off to get various muslins and so on. I was surprised my hand didn't start fizzing and the flesh disintegrating in front of me, such was the apparent toxicity of the noxious substance oozing before my eyes.

God I love motherhood!!

Hello

Quick catch up before bed. WFH my DD1 watches too much (DVDs, not telly) IMO - also up to an hour a day when she gets home from nursery. I find the last hour before bedtime very difficult with two and used to find it hard when I was heavily pg as well, so we've got into this habit. As she still enjoys her books and plays with other things as well, I don't think it's a problem. Also I choose what she watches, mostly Charlie and Lola at the mo, which I love.

This advice about staying in with small children - eh what? However, my mum is coming over from Germany soon and I said I would pick her up from the Eurostar. Now this would require Hazel and me going on train and tube in the late afternoon when it's fairly busy. Would you do it or should I order a taxi for her instead?

Potty training going better now btw - more wees in the potty than in the pants today, and she even ASKED to have a poo. Tomorrow nursery will deal with it well we pay them enough money!

Off for a quick look on FB now...

Thanks - silly bugger just planted loads more, but will not be up at midnight to harvest them! Not made for farming, me!

Ju - Your grapes are ready.

Lots of new people on the FB group now! We'll have to use it to start organising meet-ups and the like!

Ju, I am JPC on FB requesting to join.

Ah, thought is was you - sling gives it away!

I am also staying in for duration of swine flu though this could be problematic as imagine it will be many months! What is baby swim ring?

we went swimming today - e lasted 30 mins in his baby swim ring and fell asleep. when he woke up he cooed for ages so i really dont think he's a starving baby. at least not in my rational moments. however we are now staying in for the duration of swine flu.

oo that was quick. me

Lots of FB traffic today! Who is CK please?

Best nappy yet this morning, 4 big splats in a row while feeding before breakfast (mine), so bleary-eyed had to bath her to get all the - what did someone call it? bum gravy off, urrrggghhh, why is it never DH's turn when this happens? Oh, yes, that's because he does about 1 in 20 nappies so the odds are pretty slim.

M mesmerised by cricket today. DH and I knackered as there's not alot else to do, variety-wise in Dubai in summer, without hitting the malls and spending stupid money. Grumblegrouch at spending £££ in the 'sales' when the goods were overpriced at old exchange rates in the first place. Don't really need to buy much as one (and only) advantage of slow weightgain is her fitting clothes for longer haha. But seriously I long for her to get chubby knees and dimpled elbows. Problem is she's just too active to gain any rolls of fat - won't sit down quietly on laps without wriggling and arching her back, she's just nosey about what's going on at our level and pushes on her legs to look over shoulders. I hate to even think about the word hyper, but can you tell this early????

Am amazed by all our differing coping strategies re feeding and co-sleeping - a real eye-opener - Bleu sounds though sep rooms is working for you, hmm food for thought <dreams of unbroken sleep and throws baby first year book off the balcony>

Can't help with the hair tangling as M has practically none, nearly as bald as her dad. But from personal experience as one with thick wavy unmanageable hair, brushing dry hair hurts like hell, damp hair less so.

That would be me

LovingTheClandestineNatureOfItAllTiggaxx

Tigga - I presume you are DB?

OK, I've put in a request. My initials are JB.

Glad to hear things are better Bicnod!

A slept not too badly last night. Went down at 9.30pm and had his first feed at around 1.30am, then again at around 4.30am. He was up for the day at 7am. Wish he would crack that every 3 hrs thing though! Makes me feel like a total zombie!

Speak of the devil - he's up again....

Who is JB please?

Tigga - Strangely enough we have that book on our bookshelf but neither DH nor I have any idea where it came from.

Pouts @ Bicnod why you no add me????



GettingGoodAtPoutingTiggaxx

Kali, if you go here, click 'request to join', and pop a post on here with your initials, we'll suck you in make you a member.

Morning all!

Have just caved in against all my scruple and created a facebook page - how do I get our group on it? [complete facebook virgin emoticon]

Hi everyone, we're good thanks but I'm a bit worried because Isabella isn't swiping stuff yet and I'm sure dd2 did this at 6 weeks...

Evening ladies - thanks for asking after Oscar - he's loads better today - I'm so relieved... he actually slept and smiled and laughed lots today, I've got my little boy back - it was a horrible week last week, he was clearly in pain and really really unsettled. He wouldn't settle for DH at all so it was constant mummy... my god I am soooooo tired.

Laptop still dead but staying down with my mum this week so use of her pooter - hurrah!

I didn't realise quite how much of a support I find this thread until I drowned the laptop - I felt really cut off over the past few days I'm another one who lives away from family so not much day to day support...

Anyway, I'm back but I'm knackered so going to go and get some sleep - will attempt a mammoth catch up tomorrow.

Very excited about stalkbook facebook too tired to do much delving into photos tonight but intend to do so tomorrow, hurrah

I haven't read the thread so please forgive me if I've missed anything big... hugs to you all x x x

Lol at Puzzle.

Have been thinking about judging and cross referencing that with Zen and the Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance (you have to read something at 0200 whilst smalls have their eyes closed nomming away). Robert Pirsig is right we make value judgements all the time on what is and isn't Quality, those judgements apply to each of us on a personal basis. Or rather Quality for each individual tells us what judgements to make. As long as you don't try to impose the judgements on others judge away

I shall carry on making my judgements and keeping them to myself, I shall no longer feel guilty for them!

ComingOverAllZenTiggaxx

Hey Electra - good to have you back. How have you and the girls been?

Well we have just got back from a lovely meal out with my Mum. I came over all mumsnetty when I asked for juice for Ellen and the waitress told me they had fruit shoots.
"Goodness me no!" I cried. And proceeded to order my 2 year old a massive slab of chocolate fudge brownie.

Would have caught up with everyone but am having problems reading due to being so tired. Did catch ju are you sure you aren't me???

Waves to electra.

X-post time I would have made something fresh up but frankly am too tired

I have become Judgey McJudge/Grumpy Old Woman today it seems. Nice girl (she looked 12!) washing my hair tells me her friend had a baby just turned 3 months who was SO hungry they were feeding it baby yoghurt and porridge. In my best disapproving voice I blurt out 'At 3 months!!!' You could hear the exclamation marks. I then bit my tongue to stop myself from saying anymore.

Loving the new short short hair

Not enjoying wanting to walk up to children who have had children to tell them not to have a cig in their hand whilst bottle feeding their child. And yes they bloody well had Greggs sausage rolls every last one of them (including food eating children)

GoingToBeTheNewJudgeJudyTiggaxx

Hi Electra, welcome back. How are you and Isabella?

D'oh! Posted on the wrong damned thread! I was wondering if I could rejoin? Hope you are all ok xx

Good morning

I'm looking forward to a nice lazy weekend. This will be the first in ages that we haven't got loads to do.

Bicnod - I do hope Oscar is feeling better today.

MrsG - How awful of them to make you feel like that. People can be so bloody ignorant and insensitive. At least once he has the third set, you wont have to see them again for many months.
And FGS of course you are not "completely shit". I really loathe those bloody red books, they seem to make so many people unhappy. Please, please, please do not let it get you down.

WFH - Don't you swap pants with your girlfriends when they visit? I know I do. Especially if they are wearing something cool like Spiderman pants.
Re tv: Ellen never watches tv but she does have about 15 dvds and she likes to have them on if we are home but never to the exclusion of playing. She has an amazing vocabulary for her age and a small part of that is thanks to Jim Henson. I do think it's the quality of programming and time spent watching that matters.
Actually, she does watch tv, she loves Formula 1!

JJ Hooray for weight gain, that is brill . It's so hard, at least you have found something that works for you.

The TV. Now here is a bad mummy question - how old do you think a baby has to be to start being affected by the Jeremy Kyle show? Hannah worryingly looks like she's watching it . I think the issue is that when we were kids the children's programmes were on for an hour a day whereas now you could watch them round the clock. It's just a question of balance I think, because kids do learn things from the telly however much the 'wholesome' types shudder.

Just a quickie, as juggling lunch with reading.

Had Millie weighed this am - 10lb5oz - finally putting on the elusive oz per day. Hurrah <breaks open the non-alcoholic bubbly>

So MrsG I know how you feel with the weightgain HV pressure thing, nurses not v helpful with practical info on HOW to increase weight. Dunno if it'll work for you, but just for a week, I've been setting an alarm to feed Millie every 3 hours on the dot, even at night, otherwise she just doesn't tell me when she's hungry. silly little darling doesn't understand how much we worry about her. It obviously worked.

WhatFreshHell - TV is a curse and blessing isn't it? If it's age appropriate and not peppered with adverts, I don't see the harm, as long as we don't use it as a babysitter without parental commentary on what she's watching. Though right now, Millie's loving the cricket, and I can't comment on what I don't understand

I think that nowadays there is a lot of worry about the intrinsic evilness thing, but I think it's probably only so if all they do is watch TV/play PS etc. As long as DCs do loads of outdoor stuff and non-TV indoor stuff, surely is fine? Plus, is edyookayshunul!

H loves the telly! If he's in a tizzy, turn him to face the TV and he's suddenly fine

You sound like me Juwesm - the other day I drained the carrots and pasta for DS1's tea, and drained the water into his bowl instead of the sink. Nearly went to throw away the food, but just stopped myself in time! Yum, nice bowl of hot water for your tea, DS1?

So here's a question - what do people think about letting children watch TV? DS1 watches about an hour or so of Cbeebies a day - we don't let him watch any other channel (refuse to have him watch toy adverts, for a start!) but he does watch about an hour - the bedtime hour on most weekdays when I'm putting Orbit to bed, and he has it on for an hour on weekend mornings so we can potter around or have a lie in. He has watched more than this - after we lost baby number two, for example, we weren't coping very well, and if he's ill he gets to watch TV on the sofa.

Is that too much? Is TV intrinsically bad, or does it depend what channel they watch? DS1 is quite a lazy child, and he doesn't play as actively as other 3yos I know (friend yesterday trashed the house in three seconds flat - DS1 tends to be more careful and cautious in his play, but also tends not to do such imaginative, creative play)

I don't think this is as a result of TV, but I doubt it helps.

Any thoughts?

I have got a cake in the oven!! At 7.30am!! What is that all about?

However, I have also this morning:
- Nearly made porridge with 3 cups oats and 1 cup water instead of the other way round
- Served weetabix to DH in large mixing bowl instead of cereal bowl
- Turned beater on stand mixer whilst covered in mix and still raised out of bowl, nearly covering all and sundry in cake mix
- Made glass of squash, and then immediately put it under tap to fill up with water, despite already being full.

Think today may be a strange one.

I know! I keep waiting for the text that says 'ooops, we meant lbs' but no, apparently it is kg. And he says she's a whopper in the text, so it can't be lbs, as 6lbs doesn't really qualify as a whopper, does it?

Shall have to inspect this baby personally to confirm the truth of it

In terms of relactation, I tried it when she was 6 weeks old. She ended up very unsettled and I ended up in agony with no noticeable increase in milk supply. Tbh I really think that she is perfectly happy with the way that she is fed, it is me that has the problem. It is only an element of my pnd anyway, in a large folder that is marked 'failure'. I think that the healthiest thing for all concerned is for me to come to terms with this.

Surprise, Hannah had her second jabs yesterday and was definitely less upset than with the first ones. She knew what was coming so wasn't as shocked as the first time.

triple at try to put some weight on him I mean ffs.

Boffin, I frequently wonder about ADD in mine

6KG??? It's got to be an urban myth surely?

BB - ouch for the sunburnt ankles! And how scary about K stopping breathing - I would have panicked too. DS2 choked when he was small and I panicked and practically threw him at DH. I like to think I would have coped if on my own though. I think a Paediatric first aid course as Boff mentioned would be a good thing for me too

Bleu - Meg is SO clever knowing to roll over to other side! regarding the pooing, HV told me that with BF babies, anything from after every feed to once a week is normal! E goes once every other day usually. My DH has same job as yours, is working at the local council now. Don't feeld like a bad mummy putting Meg in her room when you did, I always think we should just do what is right for us.

schulte - when I first tried potty training DS2 he managed about 5% in of wees and poos in his potty! i decided it was too early and gave up until he was a few months older. This time he took to it without a problem. How old is DD1?

Juw - I think you just have to do what you feel is best for H. I would be reluctant to stop BF too. Us mums always get it apparently wrong don't we! After watching me feeding E for half an hour, one friend told me I should 'change breasts every 5 mins' and after telling a friend E sleeps 11 hours at night she replied 'oh you ought to get up and use your pump then to maintain a good supply'. Neither of these shall I be doing!

Bronze how is DD? Hope it's not swineflu!

springy - hope things get better on the AD's. Go easy on yourself, it's hard being a first-time mum, we have all been there and we all understand you (big hugs). Least you're getting help - I wish I had after DS1 but I left it too late - until my marriage split up. And I stayed depressed until I met my now DH and had DS2. Well done you for getting it sorted

Brett I managed to 'relactate' with DS2. My neighbour was still feeding her DS and I suddenly realised I wished I was. I hadn't for about 2 months (he was 6 months by this time), so I got the pump out and managed to feed him. he was just on solids at this point so didn't need too much but it was nice to go back to doing it at sleep times etc.

Kalik Is it too late for an ice-cream now? Don't give Vitamin D drops here. Anyone else?

Bicnod - DH gets me mad with all the banging around he does too. He moans that DS's take ages to get to sleep and mess around etc, but then he's banging around in the bathroom, putting telly on loud, leaving lights on everywhere, laughing loudly at telly, drives me mad!! Hope Oscar feels better soon.

JJ - welcome, glad you have found us! Look forward to getting to know you

*Mrs G* at them saying you should try and put more weight on E. How on earth are you supposed to do that??!! Do they think you are purposely keeping him slim? Gosh, I can't believe they said that! You're a brilliant mum, don't let them get you down (hugs)

WFH 6+ kg, ouch ouch ouch (eyes watering emoticon!). Changing pants is always a sign of a good play date!

Tell me this ladies .... is the third set of injections really 3 jabs? i don't think I will cope E looked at me with such sad eyes a downturned bottom lip after her first injection that I nearly ran out before they could do the second one She has her second lot in a couple of weeks

oh thank you so much - have been suffering for weeks now! Went into Lloyds Chemist and spoke to Pharmacist in May and he said 'you'll just have to suffer this year!'.


Can't believe it, was catching up and then somehow managed to refresh page and lost everything! Will try again!

Juwes, my sympathies. It was genuinely fiddly feeding DS1. His ADD was evident from the moment of birth - he spent his whole time looking around at the world rather than doing what babies are normally supposed to do!!

Surprise - cetirizine or loratidine should be fine. Theoretical risk of affecting milk supply, but unlikely to be a problem in practice. Stuff fron BfN here

Surprise, you can take Piriton while bf. I had to have it after the nasty allergic reaction incident I had.

Boff - he is an inefficient feeder. I sometimes think he is getting better, as he more frequently does the serious gulping where he sounds like a grown man chugging down a bottle of beer! But over the last week the Naughty Hands (pulling and pushing boob whilst feeding until nipple pops out!) are getting worse, and now we are developing Naughty Leg (one leg waves around madly, like a dog having his leg tickled!). This means that feeding is getting to feel like a battle of wills!

right, am going to attempt to catch up AGAIN! E asleep, DS1, DS2 and DSS are lying on the beds watching a film and DH has fallen asleep somewhere, so peace....!!

Oh Juw, while you're there (if you're there!), my hayfever is driving me totally crazy, is it really true I can't take an anti-histamine? Not even a spoon of Piriton?

MrsG - Big ((((((((hugs)))))))))) for the weight thing. I know you've been through it once before already, so there's nothing I can say that you don't already know! If you like, we can play 'Who has the worst HV', or some such similar game.

Gestational diabetes is not your fault. If it were caused purely by eating crap when pregnant, I think 95% of us would have it! Grrrr at the food lecture. I get questioned on my diet each time, and I want to say to them 1) Do I look undernourished? 2) There is evidence that a poor diet has little effect on quality/ quantity of milk. Your body will favour milk production and leach nutrients from you to make milk.

"E is really very small. Both my babies have fed all the time, never slept or allowed me to put them down and headed for the bottom of the growth charts fast. Maybe that's the way they are but how would I ever know it wasn't just that I am completely shit at this?" - substitute an H for E and that is us exactly (oh, apart from not having two ) . If there are two of us in this small group with LOs with that same growth pattern, how 'abnormal' can it be? Okay, it's not a massive sample size, but anecdotal evidence has its value

Re: ebm - have you tried breast shells for catching leaks? (Sure you have prob tried everything, but thought I'd mention it anyway!)

Do they use shorter needles for his jabs? I was all set to ask about needle size when we went in for the first jabs, but as soon as we sat down the nurse said 'We're going to need a bigger boat smaller needles'. Have also discovered a bit of a lump on his leg today where he had the Men C jab last week

Double grrrrrr at "try to put weight on him for next time". What do they think, you've been deliberately underfeeding him because you prefer the skinny look in a baby? These people don't think, do they?

Springy, I can't get immune to rubella. I have had four jabs. This is why it is so important people get their kids vaccinated - if they don't, they are more likely to harbour the disease and it could harm other members of the community as well as unborn children.

Brett, I think you can even get a jab to help lactation start again.

Juwes, you start timing from the beginning of the feed. It sounds like Hugo is rather inefficient as a feeder - my DS1 was like that. You are right about the advice to keep them in your room until 6 months though - I just decided not to as Felix is only the other side of the (thin) wall and seemed developmentally mature enough to cope on his own - he's perfectly happy in there and cheerfully has the odd daytime nap in the cot as well. I only have to change his nappy in there and he is craning to see his little animal mobile and gurgling away. It just feels right to have him in there.

DD was in my room for two years, DS1 for nine months, and DS2 moved in with his brother and 4.5 months, by the way. I've co-slept quite a lot in the past.

Tigga, when my SIL had her kids my MIL was alive and able bodied and did an enormous amount for them - gave them weekends off, organised the kids' birthday parties and so on. My SIL is quite a bit older than me, but is a lady of comparative leisure, and has a lot of time on her hands, and lives an hour away. How often do we get help? Once a year they have the DSs for an afternoon while we go off to buy their Xmas presents, but we have to drive over there to avail of this. Last year I couldn't travel so far because of the SPD so they just cancelled, and didn't come over to us instead or anything like that.

While I am ranting in sympathy I must point out her truly dire gift giving skills. Once I had spent an entire week of my hols cleaning and scrubbing everyone else's disgusting dirt off a shared cottage we have, muttering under my breath the whole time, and for Xmas that year she gave me the book 'How clean is you house' and a pair of rubber gloves. Really.

Bleu, you can get some Johnson and Johnson spray on stuff to detangle fine kiddie hair, but if that doesn't work, you can simply cut them out. Regarding the cat, if she's been OK up until now I am sure she will be fine. We fret too much about certain kinds of hygiene. This time next year she'll be crawling and eating the food out the cat bowl!

Surprise, my mum came to stay last week and helped a little bit but I have to say not a great deal, and at one point she said to Felix, "I am going to have to go back home for a rest, and this was supposed to be my holiday!" Now I had been thinking she was supposed to be helping me to give me a break. Silly Boff.

Juwes, being a pharmacist I think you could probably dose your offspring properly as necessary with the ol' Piriton. Haven't done it myself, except once giving DS1 a double dose by accident when he was about 2, and he was conked out in 10 minutes and we had a blissful break from his ADD. Happy days!

JJ I feel we have bonded a bit now after all the details!

Puzzle, my doula mentioned the elimination thing. I am actually quite tempted! But I agree it sounds a little bonkers!!

WFH LOL at pants!!!

Hello! Darn it, missed a visit from our favourite gatecrasher again - NorthernLurker, if you're still out there, big wave to you too! How's DD?

Have been mad busy this week getting some work done for DP and having some friends to stay from Finland - their 3yo and DS1 shared a bedroom which meant that of course not much sleep was had. Was soooooo lovely to see them though, we last saw them last summer when we went over there and I was about 8 wks pregnant with Orbit, so they were chuffed to bits to meet him.

But now work is done, friends have moved on, it's the weekend and I've had a glass of wine

Schulte we had a rubbish first day with potty training, try again tomorrow and if you're getting nowhere then maybe give it a rest. With DS1 when it happened it suddenly happened all at once, and he's been dry at night as well as accident free in the day almost completely ever since. Hope you have wipe clean floors!

mrsgboring I'm at all the grief you're getting about weight and diet etc. Remember you're a brilliant mum, it is not something you're doing wrong, all babies are different and yours are not meant to be big chubsters, that's just one of those things. Sending lots of hugs and large glasses of wine.

Speaking of weight though, one of DP's colleagues recently had a daughter - weighed 6.5kg at birth Yes, I do mean kg! That's only slightly less than Orbit weighs now! I might have to have a lie down in a darkened room just thinking about it.

Bicnod sorry Oscar is still poorly, hope he feels better soon

On babies in rooms - DS1 was in with us until about 9 months, not sure how long Orbit will stay. He's a noisy sleeper!

Puzzle we love your organised ways

Welcome JJ, glad you're here, come on in the water's lovely! <<raises glass>>

Springy, lovely to see you back on the thread, hope you feel Springy again soon.

So we had a friend of DS1's over for the afternoon, two three year olds in one house with me and Orbit, yikes. I think every single toy in the whole house was played with and then left somewhere on the floor, and when friend went home it was discovered that at some stage they had swapped pants . Is that the sign of a good play date, when you go home in your friend's pants?

Juwesm, if any of us is going to drug their baby it should be you, let's face it at least you know what you're doing

Hum, can't catch up any more as dinner is ready, but Tigga I love your ever changing name

xxxx

Tigga and Surprise you do sound to have some fairly annoying and useless relatives there. Another one here with no real family support, though MIL does do a little bit she's too far away really.

Surprise, hope your DS2 is okay.

Schulte re the diahorrea it wasn't huge amounts with E and was probably caused by immature muscles, but no I didn't give any replacement fluids etc. just breastmilk which I think most HCPs are happy with so long as the baby is doing okay. Good luck with potty training DD1 - we had a real time of it with DS1 but it did eventually fall into place.

NL you are totally spot on. Though like Schulte I do spend a lot of my time trying to do everything on your list.

Edmund had his second jabs today and what was I thinking I weighed him. From starting 2lbs heavier than DS1 (owing to gestational diabetes) he now weighs 100g less than DS1 the tinybaby at the same age. HVs were very nice about it but did suggest expressing "even just an ounce a day" nobody listens when I try to explain I don't let down to the pump and I would die of shock if I got an oz. Oh and she gave me a veiled lecture on my diet because of the gestational diabetes - because obviously I must have had a shit diet all my life to have succumbed to that. (I freely admit my pg diet was bad owing to horrid sickness, and so will always feel guilty for the GDM) The nurses doing the jabs always tell me how his legs are so thin the jabs will hurt more and I should try to put weight on him for next time (did this with DS1 too). I don't know what they think I'm trying to do

Feel like I'm teetering on the brink of depression now and this weight crap may send me over. E is really very small. Both my babies have fed all the time, never slept or allowed me to put them down and headed for the bottom of the growth charts fast. Maybe that's the way they are but how would I ever know it wasn't just that I am completely shit at this?

Sorry this is a real whine and rant. It is the weekend at least. What's everyone up to?

schulte what would put your mind at rest?

Decide then do that

NotVeryHelpfulTiggaxx

laptop still dead... oscar still poorly. checking in every now and then on phone but so slow... miss you guys! off to mum's tomorrow so will do giant catch up x x x

Wise words from NL once again. I do try to be most of those things

No no no I am not potty training Hazel - good god. It's the big sister we're talking about here! NO success whatsoever though - although in the evening she did tell me AFTER she'd done a wee in her pants at least - does this count as progress? [hopeful]

H is still pooing loads in weird colours and consistencies I don't know what to do because I am sure that for her at least, this is not normal.

Try again..

12 Feb: Skiingone: MARIANNA 4lb 4oz
20 Feb: Glaskham: RUBY MARIE 4lb 3oz
04 Mar: Barbarella: ESTELLA, ROSANNA, OTIS
05 Mar: Kazkiss: ISABELLE FLORENCE 4lb 6oz & OLIVER THOMAS 3lb 7oz
15 Mar: Babypringle: OSCAR WILLIAM 7lb 2oz
28 Mar: Claireykitten: VIOLET ROSE 7lb 9oz
29 Mar: WhatFreshHell: FELIX DEVLIN ALEXANDER 10lb 5.5oz
31 Mar: Mumblemum: ORSON XERXES
02 Apr: Oddeyes: ELEANOR 9lb 8oz
03 Apr: Bleuravin: MEGAN LILLIAN CONSTANCE
03 Apr: Bumpalump: JACOB 8lb
04 Apr: BabyBolat: KARAHAN 6lb 5oz
05 Apr: Mrsfossil: ISLA LILIAN 7lb 10oz
05 Apr: JumeirahJane: MILLICENT ROSE 5lb 15oz
06 Apr: BoffinMum: FELIX DAVID GORDON 7lb 9oz
08 Apr: girlylala0807 JAMES EUAN
11 Apr: SpringySunshine: GEORGE NATHAN 8lb 15oz
11 Apr: RachelinScotland: CLEMENT JAMES 8lb 14oz
11 Apr: Lou031205: ISLA SOPHIA 7lb 9oz
11 Apr: Electra: ISABELLA CAROLINE 6lb 3oz
11 Apr: AuldAlliance: ALEXANDRE 7lb 6oz
12 Apr: Phdlife: Name TBA GIRL 9lb 3oz
12 Apr: BethDivine: Name TBA GIRL 9lb 9oz
13 Apr: MathsMummy27: AMELIA CHARLOTTE
14 Apr: Purlease: ADAM 9lb 2oz
15 Apr: Juwesm: HUGO GEORGE 9lb 2oz
15 Apr: Bronze: ISAAC JOHN
15 Apr: HeidiT: HEIDI
15 Apr: Kalikaroo: Name TBA BOY 8lb
15 Apr: Minush: ZAFIRAH ROSA 7lb 12oz
15 Apr: FatandFedup: EMILIA ROSE 7lb 6oz
16 Apr: PuzzleRocks: HOLLY ELIZABETH 8lb
16 Apr: Brettgirl: HANNAH GRACE 6lb 15oz
16 Apr: ReallyTired: Name TBA GIRL
17 Apr: DungunGirl: ADEN LEE 9lb 4oz
18 Apr: Staryeyed: Name TBA BOY 7lb 11oz
18 Apr: Dawntigga: SAMUAL 5lb 11oz
20 Apr: LuLuBai: SEBASTIAN 9lb
20 Apr: Swaliswan: BETH 7lb 9oz
21 Apr: Kittycatisgettingfat: GABRIELLA AUDREY BIANCA
21 Apr: B52s: SAM MARTIN 7lb 9oz
21 Apr: Schulte: HAZEL LOIS 7lb 9 oz
21 Apr: Mrsgboring: EDMUND 8lb 12oz
23 Apr: Tristaleejac: LEWIN 8lb 4oz
23 Apr: NuttyTaff: TIAHNA SKYE 8lb 8oz
23 Apr: Purplemonkeydishwasher: ISLA ELIZABETH 8lb 14oz
24 Apr: Soon2befamilyof4: TALIA 7lb 6oz
26 Apr: Carameli: THEO LAURENCE 7lb 6oz
26 Apr: Surprisenumber3: EVIE ANNE 8lb 2oz
26 Apr: Bicnod: OSCAR MATTHEW 8lb 1oz
27 Apr: Lauren61: OLIVER STEPHEN 7lb 7oz
27 Apr: Gingersarah: VERONICA ROISIN 9lb 1oz
30 Apr: MegBusset: ARCHIE 8lb 15oz
01 May: Satheresitting: Name TBA BOY
03 May: Conkertree: Name ANGUS ANDREW 8lbs 8oz
06 May: Frekkles: HARRIS MERLIN 8lb 5.5oz
07 May: TarteTatin: ALBERT JOHN
10 May: Ilovesummer: Name TBA BOY

12 Feb: Skiingone: MARIANNA 4lb 4oz
20 Feb: Glaskham: RUBY MARIE 4lb 3oz
04 Mar: Barbarella: ESTELLA, ROSANNA, OTIS
05 Mar: Kazkiss: ISABELLE FLORENCE 4lb 6oz & OLIVER THOMAS 3lb 7oz
15 Mar: Babypringle: OSCAR WILLIAM 7lb 2oz
28 Mar: Claireykitten: VIOLET ROSE 7lb 9oz
29 Mar: WhatFreshHell: FELIX DEVLIN ALEXANDER 10lb 5.5oz
31 Mar: Mumblemum: ORSON XERXES
02 Apr: Oddeyes: ELEANOR 9lb 8oz
03 Apr: Bleuravin: MEGAN LILLIAN CONSTANCE
03 Apr: Bumpalump: JACOB 8lb
04 Apr: BabyBolat: KARAHAN 6lb 5oz
05 Apr: Mrsfossil: ISLA LILIAN 7lb 10oz
05 Apr: JumeirahJane: MILLICENT ROSE 5lb 15oz
06 Apr: BoffinMum: FELIX DAVID GORDON 7lb 9oz
08 Apr: girlylala0807 JAMES EUAN
11 Apr: SpringySunshine: GEORGE NATHAN 8lb 15oz
11 Apr: RachelinScotland: CLEMENT JAMES 8lb 14oz
11 Apr: Lou031205: ISLA SOPHIA 7lb 9oz
11 Apr: Electra: ISABELLA CAROLINE 6lb 3oz
11 Apr: AuldAlliance: ALEXANDRE 7lb 6oz
12 Apr: Phdlife: Name TBA GIRL 9lb 3oz
12 Apr: BethDivine: Name TBA GIRL 9lb 9oz
13 Apr: MathsMummy27: AMELIA CHARLOTTE
14 Apr: Purlease: ADAM 9lb 2oz
15 Apr: Juwesm: HUGO GEORGE 9lb 2oz
15 Apr: Bronze: ISAAC JOHN
15 Apr: HeidiT: HEIDI
15 Apr: Kalikaroo: Name TBA BOY 8lb
15 Apr: Minush: ZAFIRAH ROSA 7lb 12oz
15 Apr: FatandFedup: EMILIA ROSE 7lb 6oz
16 Apr: PuzzleRocks: HOLLY ELIZABETH 8lb
16 Apr: Brettgirl: HANNAH GRACE 6lb 15oz
16 Apr: ReallyTired: Name TBA GIRL
17 Apr: DungunGirl: ADEN LEE 9lb 4oz
18 Apr: Staryeyed: Name TBA BOY 7lb 11oz
18 Apr: DAWNTIGGA: Samual 5lb 11oz
20 Apr: LuLuBai: SEBASTIAN 9lb
20 Apr: Swaliswan: BETH 7lb 9oz
21 Apr: Kittycatisgettingfat: GABRIELLA AUDREY BIANCA
21 Apr: B52s: SAM MARTIN 7lb 9oz
21 Apr: Schulte: HAZEL LOIS 7lb 9 oz
21 Apr: Mrsgboring: EDMUND 8lb 12oz
23 Apr: Tristaleejac: LEWIN 8lb 4oz
23 Apr: NuttyTaff: TIAHNA SKYE 8lb 8oz
23 Apr: Purplemonkeydishwasher: ISLA ELIZABETH 8lb 14oz
24 Apr: Soon2befamilyof4: TALIA 7lb 6oz
26 Apr: Carameli: THEO LAURENCE 7lb 6oz
26 Apr: Surprisenumber3: EVIE ANNE 8lb 2oz
26 Apr: Bicnod: OSCAR MATTHEW 8lb 1oz
27 Apr: Lauren61: OLIVER STEPHEN 7lb 7oz
27 Apr: Gingersarah: VERONICA ROISIN 9lb 1oz
30 Apr: MegBusset: ARCHIE 8lb 15oz
01 May: Satheresitting: Name TBA BOY
03 May: Conkertree: Name ANGUS ANDREW 8lbs 8oz
06 May: Frekkles: HARRIS MERLIN 8lb 5.5oz
07 May: TarteTatin: ALBERT JOHN
10 May: Ilovesummer: Name TBA BOY

Aaarh Bleu - you made me

Oops Tigs, I'll get right on it.

Ah Northernlurker You always make me smile. Your DIY skills must be quite good as you seem to hit the nail on the head so often

Tigga

Points bottom lip at Puzzle

Wot no Samual on their?

Born 18th April

5lb 11oz

5 weeks early btw so looks like I got away with not pushing out a huge baby

SpellingOfSamsNameIsHisDadsFaultTiggaxx

Springy - hope you are doing ok. You are absolutely right the get the help you need. Being a mum is an amazing miracle and we're all very fortunate - but that doesn't mean we also have to be:

happy
calm
well dressed
superb cooks
ace at DIY
able to play a musical instrument
fluent in foreign languages
superb and enthusiastic lovers
good at painting and decorating
always smiling
a whizz with the J cloths and Cif
never watching television when we could be reading an improving book

or anything really

you do what you do - and it's enough.

Lots of good wishes to all you April mums - this can be a tough time, the euphoria of the birth wears off, the baby starts gettig a mind of their own, everybody elses thinks things are back to normal - and of course the weather is not so great and all those days you thought you'd spending outside under the trees with Boden Baby are actually spent indoors with George at Asda baby...

Brettgirl, nice to meet you too, thanks.

Schulte - assuming you are talking about your April-born, I heard about this potty training from birth, sounds fascinating, all about using mother's instinct to read signals from baby. Read this interesting article. Millie always looks into deep space when weeing, though how you're supposed to anticipate this I've no idea. Would love to hear your progress updates.

Right am going to bed now, tomorrow will try to have a huge monster newbie catch-up so I don't put my foot in it on future postings.

And for those with PND - as former (non-PN)D sufferer, I can't even imagine what you're going through, brave souls looking after your DCs as well as yourselves - stay doggedly focussed on the present and the future takes care of itself, I promise.

JJ

yeah... dh and i saw similar articles puzzle. it's hard to believe, but if you have the time and inclination...

i certainly need organising...

sometimes i come on here because it's easy not to tell everything and yet still be able to socialise and find things to laugh/smile about

Brett - There are actually people who try it with newborns. here and here

Very odd.

3 months seems a bit early to be potty training schulte . Sorry, don't know anything about it, so can't offer any constructive comment .

Hi JJ (waves) it's nice to meet you!

puzzle there is nothing sad about being the administrator. We need organising

In terms of baby sharing room you need to do what is right for you. FWIW I personally became less worried about Hannah when she moved out. It's easier to see she's OK on the movement alarm than when she was in her moses basket. I wouldn't let her sleep in anything other than a grobag though, I would be paranoid about her getting something over her head.

Springy I'm not exactly entirely honest on here either. In fact hv yesterday made me realise that I hadn't even been honest to myself about a couple of things. If you are going to your parents do you feel up to meeting up?

Oooh JJ sounds a bit stressful, but glad to hear that things are being worked through. I cannot imagine not having my DH at least around a couple hours after. So nice to have a surprise/early visit.

Day one of potty training.

Poos on the loo: 1
Wees on the loo: 0
Accidents: Loads

Should I give up?

How's your ankles?

Puzzle back on 26th July

JJ I LOVE the name millicent x

Btw JJ I am the self-appointed sad act administrator.

Updated for JJ..

12 Feb: Skiingone: MARIANNA 4lb 4oz
20 Feb: Glaskham: RUBY MARIE 4lb 3oz
04 Mar: Barbarella: ESTELLA, ROSANNA, OTIS
05 Mar: Kazkiss: ISABELLE FLORENCE 4lb 6oz & OLIVER THOMAS 3lb 7oz
15 Mar: Babypringle: OSCAR WILLIAM 7lb 2oz
28 Mar: Claireykitten: VIOLET ROSE 7lb 9oz
29 Mar: WhatFreshHell: FELIX DEVLIN ALEXANDER 10lb 5.5oz
31 Mar: Mumblemum: ORSON XERXES
02 Apr: Oddeyes: ELEANOR 9lb 8oz
03 Apr: Bleuravin: MEGAN LILLIAN CONSTANCE
03 Apr: Bumpalump: JACOB 8lb
04 Apr: BabyBolat: KARAHAN 6lb 5oz
05 Apr: Mrsfossil: ISLA LILIAN 7lb 10oz
05 Apr: JumeirahJane: MILLICENT ROSE 5lb 15oz
06 Apr: BoffinMum: FELIX DAVID GORDON 7lb 9oz
08 Apr: girlylala0807 JAMES EUAN
11 Apr: SpringySunshine: GEORGE NATHAN 8lb 15oz
11 Apr: RachelinScotland: CLEMENT JAMES 8lb 14oz
11 Apr: Lou031205: ISLA SOPHIA 7lb 9oz
11 Apr: Electra: ISABELLA CAROLINE 6lb 3oz
11 Apr: AuldAlliance: ALEXANDRE 7lb 6oz
12 Apr: Phdlife: Name TBA GIRL 9lb 3oz
12 Apr: BethDivine: Name TBA GIRL 9lb 9oz
13 Apr: MathsMummy27: AMELIA CHARLOTTE
14 Apr: Purlease: ADAM 9lb 2oz
15 Apr: Juwesm: HUGO GEORGE 9lb 2oz
15 Apr: Bronze: ISAAC JOHN
15 Apr: HeidiT: HEIDI
15 Apr: Kalikaroo: Name TBA BOY 8lb
15 Apr: Minush: ZAFIRAH ROSA 7lb 12oz
15 Apr: FatandFedup: EMILIA ROSE 7lb 6oz
16 Apr: PuzzleRocks: HOLLY ELIZABETH 8lb
16 Apr: Brettgirl: HANNAH GRACE 6lb 15oz
16 Apr: ReallyTired: Name TBA GIRL
17 Apr: DungunGirl: ADEN LEE 9lb 4oz
18 Apr: Staryeyed: Name TBA BOY 7lb 11oz
20 Apr: LuLuBai: SEBASTIAN 9lb
20 Apr: Swaliswan: BETH 7lb 9oz
21 Apr: Kittycatisgettingfat: GABRIELLA AUDREY BIANCA
21 Apr: B52s: SAM MARTIN 7lb 9oz
21 Apr: Schulte: HAZEL LOIS 7lb 9 oz
21 Apr: Mrsgboring: EDMUND 8lb 12oz
23 Apr: Tristaleejac: LEWIN 8lb 4oz
23 Apr: NuttyTaff: TIAHNA SKYE 8lb 8oz
23 Apr: Purplemonkeydishwasher: ISLA ELIZABETH 8lb 14oz
24 Apr: Soon2befamilyof4: TALIA 7lb 6oz
26 Apr: Carameli: THEO LAURENCE 7lb 6oz
26 Apr: Surprisenumber3: EVIE ANNE 8lb 2oz
26 Apr: Bicnod: OSCAR MATTHEW 8lb 1oz
27 Apr: Lauren61: OLIVER STEPHEN 7lb 7oz
27 Apr: Gingersarah: VERONICA ROISIN 9lb 1oz
30 Apr: MegBusset: ARCHIE 8lb 15oz
01 May: Satheresitting: Name TBA BOY
03 May: Conkertree: Name ANGUS ANDREW 8lbs 8oz
06 May: Frekkles: HARRIS MERLIN 8lb 5.5oz
07 May: TarteTatin: ALBERT JOHN
10 May: Ilovesummer: Name TBA BOY

Oh yeah, fyi DD is Millicent Rose (Millie), dob 5 Apr, bw a weeny 5lb15.

Surprise - I hope DS is ok.
And I don't recall you ever ranting before so it must be your turn.

JJ - Thanks for that, it's nice to get to know you a bit better. We love the details on this thread, nosey mares that we are.
I had my Mum and DH first time and then Mum and sister this time round while DH looked after DD1. It does indeed make a special bond, it's lovely.
Sorry to hear you had a bit of a difficult time but it sounds like she is doing great now.

Aw shucks, thanks for asking about me , right, for those interested/nosey, here's JJ's story.

Came back to UK, not 'for the birth', but because we were still awaiting handover of our new apartment, plus DH's job not 100% recession-proof at that point, in fact advised by his boss it might be wise for me to return home ;-(. So made decision to fly back & stay w/parents at 35 weeks - the latest airlines will permit lest you deliver midair. Admitted to hospital for high blood pressure at 38 weeks, didn't leave til 11 days later with babeinarms. Natural birth, induced, very intense, and only gasandair as I felt the need to push before I could say "epidural?" Chr1$ta11fu**ingmighty it was painful, and midwife declared afterwards I'd 'got away with' small grazes - didn't feel like small grazes...

Mum was my totally unprepared but totally perfect birthing partner, and now has very special bond with DD because of it. DD stayed in hospital for 4 days altogether, reason being she came out, was put onto me, took one breath,and decided that was enough, nurse shouted 'floppy baby', I went into banshee panic mode screaming 'tell me my baby is ok', and didn't get to meet her properly til 1 hour later once she'd been resussed and me cleaned up. Never textbook is it? There was also a risk of group b strep which isn't routinely checked for in UK, but doc in Dubai had tested for a few weeks previous - no time to administer the necessary antibiotics by IV during my 6 hour labour - induced at 10am, born at 4pm, they had to keep her in for observation in special care, so I did the ward run for middle of the night feedings. Seems a long time ago now.

Birthweight 5lb15. Quite cross at NHS lack of attention to detail. Doc in Dubai had scanned at 35 wks and warned of small baby, midwife in UK dismissed this as nonsense on the strength of measuring my belly - wtf? - not v scientific - grrrr.

DH flew back on the 2nd day to see us, by some big conspiracy between my family, as I wasn't expecting him til the 5th day, nice surprise though after I'd got over the shock, and we spent a good 10 days together before he had to go back to UAE. As it turned out, DH job had been secured, boss having made sure he was going to be on site for the remainder of the project. And we pushed for an early handover of the apartment, so moved back when DD was 6 weeks old. Never been a happier reunion.

Hope you won't hate me - no stretch marks, and regained ppg weight in 2 weeks, though not hard when you start out at over 14st. Still BFing - no bottle, but nurses weighing DD every week to ensure on track - am being the hellish bolshy mum trying to persuade them that the new WHO weightgain chart renders theirs useless, but they won't have it, and are still using the old ones for bottlefed babies. At 10lb DD is now just into 0-3mth clothes, except sleepsuits which are too darned short - gets tall genes from me and DH. Still, I have this niggling worry about it all, so whilst everyone else is trying to get their DCs to sleep through, we know that given half a chance our DD will, but have to set alarm for 3hourly feeds for her weightgain to remain steady.

So that's meeeeee see you around and hope to get to know you all too. JJ

sorry about my epic post earlier, once I started I couldn't stop!

Well, it turns out that the sister of a little girl who projectile vomited all over DS2 yesterday has swine flu - bloody fantastic!

Ju sod the piriton whip the phernagan out! lol., only joking lmao. sure a little piriton wouldnt hurt.

^Gets on high horse

Ju!

Gets iff high horse actually, falls off through laughing^

GigglingTiggaxx

Now, a small dilemma. On the drive up to my parents last weekend, wee H basically screamed almost all the way up and all the way back - it was not fun and came as somewhat of a surprise as the first time we did the journey he slept through both legs. We're going up again next weekend. My question is this: would I be an awful, awful person to try out a bit of Piriton liquid to see if it will knock him out for the journey? Is it a slippery slope to start drugging him this early

Grr. I traipse down to the clinic for Holly's second jabs only to find the vaccine hasn't been delivered. I have to go back this afternoon. Still, Ellen had a great time splashing in the puddles on our way back. Made me rather wish I had worn my wellies.

Wow Bleu, how much hair does Meg have? Ellen was pretty bald until recently and Holly doesn't have anywhere near enough for knots.
Curls are the best, both mine get theirs from their Daddy.

Dawn - I have four brothers and sisters. Two of them still haven't bothered to come meet Holly, one of whom lives barely 30 minutes away. Not that I care, the ones who matter have met her. In fact my lovely eldest sister was present at her birth.

lol Ju. Weaning at 2 And hanging upside down in a sack

Though I like the idea of working with baby in a sling. DH and I commented that it would not be all the hard to do many jobs with a baby in a sling... offices would just need feeding rooms.

We won't though Ju, will we?

Bicnod, is Oscar okay? Welcome to the FB group

Re. who has a say in parenting matters, I too feel that as the mum, who spends much more time with the DCs, my vote should count more. When we disagree (which luckily, doesn't happen that often), I shout and scream until I get my way then give in later We had a very big row over dummies when DD1 was little.

When our DCs have their own kids in 20-30 years (eek!), they'll all be weaning at 2 years, putting the babes to sleep on their front/ hanging upside down/ in a hessian sack, going back to work with the baby in a sling etc, as the guidelines will have changed multiple times by then. We'll be all , but will hold our tongues as we will remember what it was like!

Bleu as somebody who's had long hair, rides a motorbike and is head sore the easiest way to get rid of knots is with a lubricant. I use to brush out my hair when it had conditioner on it but found it worked fairly well with just shampoo. Have you tried that?

GladShe'sGotShortHairNowTiggaxx

Oh, that reminds me...

When Dh was a tiny baby he was put in a room on his own on the top floor (PIL slept downstairs), with a thick blanket and a fan heater. Doors closed. It's a miracle he's still alive!

Sod the guidelines, if H is a noisy sleeper then she'll move to the other room before she's 6 months old

Off for a proper catch up now, you guys have been busy!

MrsG, did you give extra water or dioralyte? I am still not entirely sure what to do. Poo frequency seems to have decreased but now they are bigger. And still happening after every feed. I want my once every three days baby back.

Talking about poos, DD1 did one in the loo this morning (cue very happy mummy) and we're now potty training. Well we're not really because the 2 wees she's done since both went in her pants.

Hi all - am going to do a big catch up in a minute but have had a quick look through and OMG Nutty, hope you're okay, that is awful news

Regarding sleeping, I am getting tempted to move E into her room. She is outgrowing her moses basket and she has slept every night straight through 8 pm til at least 7 am for weeks now and I don't wake either once I'm in bed, until she does. I work from home and my 'office' is in my bedroom. As I often work in the evening, I put E's basket in her cot in her room until I go to bed and she is fine with that. Feel a bit weird about it though as kept DS's in with me til 6 months, DS1 cos he was prem and DS2 cos he always wanted a feed in the night and so was easier. Not sure what to do!

Regarding help with DC's from family, my IL's have also done nothing but this is the norm for them. What gets me the most is my sis. She doesn't have kids but teaches primary so good with kids and lives 4 miles away. DS's adore her but she hardly ever visits and NEVER helps. When I was 9 months preg in Easter hols, she never came round to help, even though I had both DS's at home, DH working long hours and I was still working from home (only 3 weeks mat leave for me - but only work 8 hours!). Even when I was in labour and she brought mum over she watched me vacuum between contractions. She said she'd do my ironing for when I came back - it was untouched. She visited the day I came out and let me/DH make drinks. She came round fathers day to help me do a family meal, she basically just watched and then left all the washing up/clearing up, knowing I had 3 DC's to look after and we were packing to go on hols the next day. She has looked after DS's twice since DS2 was born 5 years ago.

Now it is the 7 weeks hols and I have got 3 DC's to watch, E is constantly BF, and I have my work to do on top of all that. DH no time off as he is in the middle of a big project. She, and her DP who is also a teacher, will have the 7 weeks off and I will not get a second of help. I know it's not her responsibility but I would like to think that I would be helping her if the tables were turned. In fact, when she left her DP a few years ago, I let her stay here, sorted out all her finances with her and when she moved back to her house, I had her for dinner regularly, bought her food shopping etc even though I had Ds2 as a baby and worked etc.

Thanfully my mum is a star and I can rely on her for anything

Sorry, rant over! Think a nerve was touched there though. But cos she is my sis and I love her, I could never slag her off in RL, so this has really helped!

Off for a cuppa and catch up now!

Bleu - maybe you could try rubbing a little oil into her hair to act as a sort of conditioner? Then comb/brush out the tangles?

I don't know about the 'cat on the mat' situation - maybe good to have exposure to cat fluff to strengthen her against allergies? But maybe bad if your cat goes outside and walks on the playmat with mucky paws? I know my cat used to bring in all sorts of horrid stuff on his paws (cat poo, slug slime etc).

I think as far as sleeping and any other parenting, you just have to go for whatever's right for you and not feel guilty about whatever you do. Follow your instincts and everything will turn out fine in the end. That's my philosophy re child-rearing anyway! [can you tell I'm trying to be optimistic today??)

DH and I have some different views about parenting, but I think as the mother, if you're the person who does the lion's share, your opinion is probably the best! I'm the one who spends ages researching stuff about nappies and weaning etc (though DH has become very interested in the different kinds of nappies you can buy), so I'm the best informed I reckon. BF and FF decisions will be made by me because I'm the one who feeds A. If DH has a very strong opinion about feeding, I'll listen to him and decide as and when. Before I do something I always ask him what he thinks e.g. moving A into a cot due to safety fears. He's involved in decisions, but I tend to be the most practical and if things were left to him they would never happen since he's Mr Procrastinator 2009 .

Aw, bless her with her long curly hair!! I think you'll have to hang on for the owner of a curly-haired bairn to pop in with the answer!

we wash it with j's no more tears.. it's very fine too, so fine that those little brushes don't seem to do anything, but the hair is also very long in places (i already tuck bit's behind her ears for instance so it doesn't go in her eyes) it's 2 inches or more on the top and sides. And it knots partly because it's wavy/curly. she gets little snarly tufts that I take pains to get out, but cannot seem to do so without her getting frustrated and angry. though that might partly be because she's got to sit still for a while...

Ah, and you're right re: expressing. I need to do it more. I need a routine.

Hmmmm 1) I don't really know. What do you wash her hair with? H's hair is pretty fine and doesn't seem to tangle.
2) I imagine the only concern would be risk of developing an allergy to cat hair/ dander. Don't know enough about allergies to know whether early exposure like this will increase or decrease risk, or have no effect. Maybe ask on allergies board? Other than that, I'm all for a good bit of exposure to dirt!

in total and complete honesty -that's what i would do too. i can be a bit narrow minded and stubborn- which is one of the reasons meg is still being bf and not ff...

Bleu - I have tried to explain why I don't want to do it, but I'm not sure he completely gets it. He hasn't mentioned it for a while, I think probably because I was so vehemently against it. I've developed a bit of a mental block about ff now, where even considering it upsets me. Which is stupid. I'm tied to the baby almost 24/7 so a bottle in the evening we free me up massively. My current plan is to keep going with just bm until we see the paed and as long as his weight gain continues, albeit slowly.

Now I have two questions: well 2 big questions which means there will be more little questions to clarify

1) What can I so about snarls in Meg's hair?
IS there any way I can avoid them? (She gets them by rubbing her head back and forth on the bed and in her car seat) And does anyone know how to get them out without causing distress?

2) Should I be concerned about the cat always sleeping on Meg's playmat and quilt when it's on the floor (if I forget to put it away right away). He's never on there when she is... but the second I move her I swear he gets right in there...I tried laying his rug near by...not interested always on the mat or quilt...And I feel it's a bit dirty but I cannot KEEP washing the damn things...or should I?

And I cannot remember if you know this/have seen/read it before, but I was told that if you want to encourage milk production one of the best ways is to express copious amounts during the night, as this is when the majority of the milk is made...but if you're feedings are so close together there's no real time to get the machine on in between feeds AND get some sleep.

Slap me if I'm annoying you with information you've heard a million times.

Ah the dreaded one thinks one and the other thinks the other... Ju I know. I so know.
DH and I are back and forth about things too. Nothing having to do with feeds yet, but other things. I have to say that I use my 'bully' mode on DH quite often to 'get my way' which I also feel quite guilty about as I do think things should be very equal in the family. BUT I do think that the primary caregiver should have the right to make decisions which affect their day to day more (as long as they're not completely against morals of the other). And the ff is a very difficult issue.
Do you feel you cannot try it for a week or so (expressing also during that night feed so that you don't lose production and can go back to bf as desired) and see what happens? Have you expressed your fears about losing milk production? And have you talked to him about how you feel that total ff would not benefit you or the baby for certain reasons emotional and practical? Does he understand these things and still want to continue? If so then I would have to say that I would give in (but only a little) and allow a trial run as suggested as long as it doesn't put you in a bad place emotionally.
But I completely understand I struggled a bit too with the nagging early on about ff... the fears of hurting Meg in one way or the other really made me anxious and fretful.

I'm a fine one to talk about modern constructions - she who lives her life through a laptop

That's exactly what I think too Tigga
And her bedroom is 5 feet from ours and we used to keep the doors open between the two rooms and and and I really do love my baby lots! And would never want her to come to harm! Oh the guilt we get racked with as mothers...

Kali - congrats on the improved sleep! I agree with you re: the sleeping. It is another modern construction, having baby tucked away in his own room from an early age. However, I don't mean to be a judgy-pants about it. With the co-sleeping, I am getting a fair amount of sleep. Were I having to get up to feed him 3-4 times in the night, and exhausted, I think I would definitely be trying to get him into the nursery to get me a bit more sleep. DH is quite keen on him going into the nursery soon, but I think that is mostly because he never expected H to be in with us, and because of the dreaded People At Work. However, his sleep is rarely disturbed at all, so he's not hugely bothered about it.

I wonder what I would be doing for day-time naps, were H not made of velcro. I'm inclined to think I'd have him down here in the living room with me in moses basket/ travel cot, rather than upstairs. I actually put him in his cot for two minutes yesterday while I went to the loo (rather than having him sitting in the baby bath in the bathroom!!), and I couldn't wee quickly enough! Now that's PFB!

I've been pondering the whole concept of mothering vs parenting. Where there is a DP/DH involved, how much say do you feel they should have in the decisions about feeding/ sleeping/ weaning, in these early baby stages? DH and I have differing opinions on quite a few things, but I'm inclined to think that as Mum, I'm the one who should have the final say. E.g. He's really keen on giving a bottle of formula in the evening, but I've put my foot down and said no. But why should he not have the right to make that decision about his son? 'Tis tricky.

Also, have to say, Bicnod is a another April Hottie!

Blue you gotta do what's right for you - then it's right for your baby!

SmoochesTiggaxx

Well you all make me sound like a horrible mother having moved Meg to her own bed at 3 or 4 weeks and then me moving out of her room and back in with Dh at 5 weeks... But to be completely honest it worked for us...as in, I do horrible without sleep and I start getting depressed when my seratonine (sp) levels drop and when I was having all that trouble with the feeds AND not getting sleep I was quickly heading down a path I really knew I did not want to go down...So I had to solve the problem as best I could.
I measure feeds from end of one to start of next, though I'm not sure if that's how it's supposed to go... So during the day we might feed at 9 then 12.30 then 4 then like I said I condense the feeds to what is recently 6 and 9. (it was 6 8 10).
I know it might not help, or it may do, but I found that Meg liked to muck around on the breast (on again, off again, doze off, etc. like you described Ju) and feeds were taking 45min- 1hr. Then I thought this is silly. So let her go off and on 3 times then took her off and 'packed up shop.' Likewise when she dozed off I took her off and packed up. She whined a bit and fussed a bit (if she was really upset I'd put her back on), and for a week or so I feed her more often (when ever she asked for it during the day no matter the timetable) but I stuck to the 3 times mucking about and you're off, or fall asleep and your off. After a while she got the message. If I'm hungry I feed. We tend not to have problems now, and I still keep up the 'rules' and the feeds are less than 30min now from start to finish.
I completely know that it may not work for anyone else and their babies, but it did help with Meg and me and helped to make our days a little more structured and reliable.

springy her children are now 18 and 15 and no she still can't cope. We've paid her in the past to do some cleaning - it helped both of us out so I can't see how this would now be degrading to her. She's really good at it and she'd make a fabulous business at it if she put her mind to something other than herself for 5 minutes. If dp didn't get on with his sister he wouldn't help her out. I say get on but it's entirely one sided, she only speaks to him when she wants something and he's always been there to pull her out of whatever stupidity she's got herself into. I use to have a lot of time for her but she's done some not very ethical things over the last 2 years, I keep my opinions to myself as much as I can but sometimes they spill out so that may contribute - I'm nothing if not honest with myself There's a difference in needing to have a bit of space and depending on other people, she hasn't been self reliant in the 12 years I've known her for anything and it's always a man she's turned to to help her out. I probably intimidate her as I've never relied on anyone but me in my life - comes of having parents who were wastes of skin and zero social skills growing up.

She has never been diagnosed with depression she just tells people she is. She feels sorry for herself a lot and that's about it. She wouldn't know true depression if it walked up and bit her on her arse. A psycologist told her to buck her ideas up and that she wasn't depressed just a bit blue!

She's never going to be a bff but I've really tried to be friends with her am not sure I want to waste the energy anymore.

Ooops ranting again and springy you didn't offend me

SmoochesTiggaxx

Another here with a very limited support network - my parents are 4 hours drive away. FIL is much closer, but still around 40 minutes in the car, and not really the sort to pop round and help with the housework, though he did come and (half) help DH do something with our front garden. He would babysit, but I think only if we took LO around to theirs. Also, a bit of a billy-no-mates. This is largely my own fault due to a) not learning to drive, so difficult to visit my work buds who are all some way away and b) being a lazy, antisocial loner who doesn't bother going to M&B groups etc. My NCT group are lovely, but I am very poor at making an effort to see them. And my lovely bestest friend went and moved to America 18 months ago. Grrrrrr. How selfish!!

Fortunately, we have each other, here, as a support network. So we can't actually sit around and have tea and cake, and chatting on line is not the same as chatting in the living room, but I really don't know what I would have done without you guys and MN in general. I'm fairly sure I wouldn't still be breastfeeding, for one thing.

Tigga, re: your situation. I think it is rather lovely of your DP to ask for help as a present rather than something that costs money, but perhaps it is like Springy says, and she sees it as degrading somehow? I suppose if she had offered the help it would be slightly different. But it is very annoying if you have seen someone in the family given loads of help and support, and you are then left to fend for yourself. I suppose the only thing to do is be really open and ask for help from them. Perhaps you could somehow make a day of it - ask if they will come round, SIL can help with a big spring clean/ help to entertain Sam, DPs brother can help DP in the garden, and then have a nice barbecue together or similar. So you would all be working together, not her working for you. Get MIL in on the action as well.

Little H is wiggling on his mat, trying very hard to roll over!

Obviously, it's not always a choice because of practical things like not having the room for a cot in your bedroom etc! (Didn't mean to sound like I was criticising anyone)

Dawntigga That whole situation must be soooo frustrating! I can totally sypathise with having to do everything on your own because we live so far away from our families - it isn't easy at all. Can you have a proper word with your DH's family? or maybe he could?

Springy Good to hear from you again. A is permanently stuck to my boob at the moment so I feel your pain! He's a pretty rubbish sleeper too, so it's definitely a 24hr thing..........except for last night!!!!!!!.....<< drum role please >>........A went to bed at 9pm and only woke up once briefly until 1am when I gave him his next feed. He then slept from around 1.30am until 5.15am!!! Woo hoo! That's the longest sleep he's ever had!!!! However it then took over an hour of feeding, carrying and patting him to get him to go back to sleep until 7.30am when we eventually got up. I'm not complaining though because I actually managed to get 4 ours of sleep in one go!!!!! (If I'd gone to bed at 9pm with him I would have had another 4 hr stretch too...) Oh well.

About having baby in the room until 6 months - we're going to have A in our room until we either have another child or move to a bigger flat because we only have 1 bedroom! I can understand why people want to get a bit of peace from their babies though - they're sooo noisy at night time. I think it is a bit unnatural to sleep far away from your baby though until it's sleeping through the night without being fed, from a biological perspective anyway. << ducks for cover, as a contentious subject! >>

Ju, I'm hugely sympathetic to your constant feeding (& slightly relieved that it's not just me!). I too measure from start of feed to start of feed. George tends to be a fairly efficient feeder now, so we have less of the messing about. But he does demand milk like clockwork - you could often quite literally set your watch by his feeds & be no more than five minutes out by the end of the day

I've also read about the 6 months guidelines, but know that it's not practical for a lot of people. As I said, for example, if he becomes too big for his crib, he'll need to move into his cot. I can't co-sleep with him on a permanent / regular basis because he punches me awake & DH takes up too much room for me to be comfortable. It's more disruptive than his talking to himself at all hours.

BB, it probably is just the heat, don't worry. It must be pretty exhausting for you to be so hot & constantly feeding, though.

Tigga, I can see both sides, to be honest I'm speaking as someone without a support network too (both of our families are 200 miles away in opposite directions & I have no local friends), & a DH who's been difficult to say the least. So I truly do understand the longing for someone who could offer to fetch a loaf of bread & drop it by, etc. Never mind looking after the baby for a short while!

Do DP & his sister get on? Is there any reason she wouldn't feel welcome in your home?

To be very honest (I hope I don't offend you here) I can see why she's reluctant to do the cleaning / lawn mowing. Whilst I can see the sense in it from both sides, I can see that maybe she would find it degrading doing that for her brother? Especially as you say she's on benefits & from that I assume that you're not? Perhaps she's already embarrassed that her brother's got a 'better' life than her & doesn't want to do his menial tasks?

I don't know the people involved & I'm sure that there are at least elements in which YANBU. But I can see what is possibly her side of the story, too. How old are her children? Is she still struggling to cope? Please don't judge her for retreating home. We're doing this all on our own too, but if I had the opportunity to basically move back in with my parents, I would. In fact I think I'm going to visit my parents this afternoon for a couple of nights just because I can't deal with the sound of George whining all day because he's teething & I know they'll help out. I could cope on my own in so far as we'd all survive the day & George would be well looked after. But I'm already on ADs & struggling emotionally, IYSWIM. You shouldn't judge her on that, because you don't know the full story. (For example I'm a lot more ill than I've let on to anyone, to be honest).

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant in itself. I hope I didn't cause any offence xx

Few things to start off - Sam isn't going into his own room until 6 months at the earliest. I know that should be 24 weeks but I'm going with calendar months. And if I can't handle it he'll stay in a bit longer Anyone says PFB and I'll brain them - I hate that expression! Who do we think we descended from? Parents who let their babies do whatever or the careful check a lot type?

Am thinking of bringing the dream feed back - may have to express for a few nights to get the milk levels up for it but hopefully it will mean a sleep right through I highly doubt it as my little man is stubborn about being woke up

Now for my shameless x-post rant - I don't do it often put up with it

Sam is 12 weeks old, in that time dp's family have done the following for us:


Did you see anything there? That's because they've done nothing. I have no family anywhere near me. We are relatively new to the area. My best friend has a 10 month and 5 year old. We have NO support network. SIL came around yesterday, as soon as she got in the house she was making excuses up about how much she had to do that day, this included looking after her friends child, her friedn lives a 5 minute walk away from us and SIL visits this friend at least once a week. It was recently dp's birthday, his sister asked him what he wanted (he got cash of me and Sam because he wants a flat screen tv and was short about the amount that we would have spent on a present anyway, he loved that!) DP told her he wanted some cleaning and the lawn mowing, SIL is broke and on benefits this would have cost her nothing. When she came round it was the second time in 12 weeks, dp has been round on numerous occasions to help her out and we've been over at least 6 times to see her during this time. She asked me what dp wanted for a present, she said dp had mentioned 'some rubbish' about wanting some cleaning and the lawn doing. I told her that's exactly what he wants. DP was working locally yesterday and came home for lunch whilst she was here, she asked him again what he wanted and he repeated cleaning and the lawn mowing. SIL then said she couldn't do it this week but could next week - she knows dp is off for 2 weeks next week so dp said not to bother until after the holidays. I think she is hoping he forgets - ^good job he's got a fabulous Tigga with the memory of an elephant to remind him^. I couldn't help myself as she was leaving I mentioned that we were doing this with absolutely no support from anyone it was in response to something she'd said. When SIL had her children she was constantly at her mothers (dp's mum doesn't drive) in the first 6 months of getting nephew home (he was VERY prem) she spent exactly one day at home and couldn't cope. When neice was born she did exactly the same thing and neice was born at full term.

I am SO annoyed at them, not for me for dp. It wouldn't kill his sister to ring up and say I'm coming into your town can I pick you up anything, she knows I'd pay her the money there and then, which reminds me she still owes dp some cash. It's like a kick in the teeth to dp when he will go and help her out but she won't do anything to help him. She's such a selfish person ARGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

VeryAnnoyedTiggaxx

PS I feel much better having got that off my chest my normal drivel will now resume.

Juw yes, it is recommended to have the baby in your room at night till six months - I think it is FSIDS guidance.

We moved DS1 (whose name is Philip BTW - it seems odd to name Edmund and then say DS1 all the time) when he was about 8 months but he came in to cosleep as soon as he woke up (after we'd gone ot bed - at that age we were up and down the stairs all evening as well so he wasn't really on his own for ages after that)

I cant remember who it was that asked but at 16 weeks we still have Violet in our room with us. Just to make you all feel better I will also admit that at 21 months we still Oscar in with us as well!

Morning All

Holy mackerel!

Holly had a dream feed at 11pm and didn't stir until 6.15am.
That would have been a night's unbroken sleep were it not for my little monkey Ellen wanting a cuddle at 1am. Still, not a bad night really.

The lightning and thunder were pretty special last night. My gardens are looking a lot less parched.

Holly is due her second jabs this morning. I do hope it doesn't affect her the like H & H. How are they this morning?

BB - When do you come home?

Ju - We love co-sleeping. I have said before, we will probably keep Holly in with us until she is five.

Oooh nappies - K has about 5-8 pooey nappies a day - always has - they are quite a lot bigger over here but put that down to him eating more!!

SPringy K feeds every 2-3 hours in the day - he had got up to 3-4 hours but is back down now and at night he feeds at 8, 11pm, 1, 4.30 and 6.30am - am hoping it's the heat over here but gah yes I am still on lots of feeding but he is only on for 5 or 10 minutes then he just chews and plays or lets got himself!

Hello Jumeirahjane welcome! we - (and by we, I mean me) are a nosey lots so tell us ALL about yourself, your LO and the birth etc!

Springy - I'm still feeding every 2 hours, if not more. Last time I saw a HV she asked how often he fed and I said a vague 'every 2-3 hours', as I wasn't really sure. So she suggested to try offering every 2 hours, in a clock-watching fashion. Well, when watching the clock I realised that we rarely ever made it to the next 2 hour mark! It's difficult though, as there is rarely a clear feed period. It's 'start eating, munch a bit, have a really good drink, doze off, have a good drink again, doze off for half an hour with nipple in mouth, mumping occasionally, wake up and drink again' etc. I'm not sure that HV understands this. And, I assume that 'feeding every 2 hours' means from start of feed to start of feed, rather than end of last one to start of next one?

Now, have I made up there being guidelines that LOs should be in your room until 6 months? I thought had read it somewhere, but never seen anyone else mention it. He's staying in with us regardless, as the co-sleeping is so fab for bfing, and I'm a big fan of the idea that babies should nap/ sleep wherever you are (though actually napping/ sleeping on you is taking it a bit too far).

We had a bum gravy one yesterday. It was incredible. Also, find that the 'shaving foam' type ones are more noticeable if you are there at the moment of, or shortly after, production. The bubbles dissipate after a while!

Aww, schucks MrsG

These babies really do fall asleep in the strangest places, don't they? Sorry you're so worried I have my fingers & toes crossed that you'll all avoid it. Metaphorically, obviously. Typing would be very difficult otherwise.

& no problem, Puzzle. You probably do enough of our organisation & admin to not have to thank me for such simple explanations

Bicnod - Of course you are welcome. Good to have you on board.
I see Springy has explained already. Ta Springs.

hello sorry for bad typing - e asleep on my hand.

springy you are fantastic. here's to better times for you and everyone else having tough times. if it helps, e feeds fairly frequntly and cluster feeds for hours most evenings. you are not alone.

jumeirahjane i'm a new girl too -hello.

re poos e had the runs for ages as a tiny baby - it was tiny amounts allthe time and often foamy. he had the devil's own nappy rash and i went through a 35 pack of nappies every 24 hours but otherwise he ws totally fine.

am totally freaking about swine flu this evening thanks to channel4 news and the risks edmund runs and me to a lesserextent as last pregnancy seems to have turned my asthma bad again.

To be fair, I have little better to do. DH is on his laptop & George is between feeds. Well, there's plenty else to do, but it all involves getting off the sofa

Besides, you're all always lovely to me, so I don't want to be too behind

Ooh, yes. Go for the harassed mother look. 'I've got more than enough to contend with without chasing you up' sort of thing. Who was it? Royal Mail? You can get stuff redelivered if it's not very urgent & complain by phone? It depends how difficult it'll be for you to go in person, I guess.

Oooo Springy marathon catch up! You're always so good...me I just say sorry, tough beans, I'm lazy. I am going to complain. and I think I'm going to bring a screaming baby into the depot too just for effect and maybe I should not wash my hair tomorrow either... Then I'll look like medusa

poor you Bicnod. Hope tomorrow goes better.

Right, I'm going to do a 6 page catch up. I think that's all I can manage, sorry.

God, no wonder I have PND. Am I the only one who's still feeding every 2 hours between 6am & 9pm? & every 3 hours through the night? Really? It's never been any different (actually, he used to feed every 2 hours through the night, too) apart from TWO nights when he slept 12 - 6 for no apparent reason. Please tell me I'm not the only one. Especially not now his weight gain has pretty much stopped & has for 8 weeks now. I blame DH's metabolism.

Actually, the more I read, the more I realise that some of you have cluster feeding to contend with. Generally George just feeds for 10 or 15 minutes, so I suppose that could be worse.

Sorry that my absence worried some of you! I've been fine, really. Not fantastic, but okay. Good point about Kitty especially, though - has she even been on since her birth announcement?

George doesn't even really have an attention seeking cry. He's developed a fake cough instead, because he learnt that choking meant that he got picked up to be patted on the back. It's not even vaguely convincing, bless him.

Oh Boff, so sorry to hear about your experience with flu. How awful. No wonder you're scared xx I'll hate Dr X for you. Dead wife or no.

Schulte, you said one of DD1's friends got rubella despite the MMR? I got a mild form of mumps a couple of years ago despite it too. It makes me a bit about the jab.

We still have George in our room, too. He's moved up into his crib from his moses basket, but still fits reasonably well - he sleeps with his hands by his face, not sprawled out. Although once he's awake he's very punchy, as I've found out when co-sleeping. We'll transfer him when he needs the cot, as we can't fit it in our room. Until then he's waking so often there's no point in moving him anyway.

Ju, how frustrating that your dad's so insensitive about the BFing / weight gain thing. It's amazing how unsupportive people can be about BFing. I adore my parents & they're massively supportive about pretty much everything, but they still jump at opportunities to question the wisdom of BFing. I've not yet told them about my PND, but I can guarantee that I'll get a load of 'well you have been insisting on being solely responsible for his feeding...' & so on.

brett, I'm not suggesting that you should, but are you aware of relactation? Women can produce milk at any time (so can men, actually!) with enough stimulation. It's a very hard slog, I believe, but entirely possible. If you really are determined to 'try and go back' to BFing, I think you can. They talk about it a fair bit on the feeding boards. As I say, I'm not sure that it'd be helpful to you / how hard it would be, but I'd hate for you to later say 'if only I'd known...' IYSWIM?

Bleu, Meg seems so clever! I'll be having words with George

Kali, I've not even heard vitamin D drops mentioned until you did.

Thank you to everyone who's been lovely about my PND (I'd expect nothing less ) - it makes so much difference knowing you're all here. I know I've not been around much, but I'm hoping that it'll get easier to join in the general discussion now & I can be One Of You again.

BB, that sounds scary about Kara not breathing. I suppose that the worst that could happen is that he'd faint & then automatically start breathing again. Obviously not fun for you, but nothing to get too panicked about. & don't be silly - you'd have sorted it out yourself, you just had a few second to freak out & someone else came along before you had a chance to get your head in gear. Next time (if there is one) you won't need the thinking time.

Hmm, the mention of ovulation. I was convinced about 3 weeks ago that I was ovulating. It would've been the right time, too. & now nothing... The little sex we have had has been with condoms & we've not noticed a mishap. I did a pregnancy test this morning out of fear & got a negative. I should feel totally relaxed as I know it's exceptionally unlikely & I got a negative, but all I can think is that I was on the pill this time last year & got a load of negatives after my late period <<glances pointedly at vibrating chair>> Does anyone have any suggestions as to where my egg may have gone? I know it's possible that I didn't actually ovulate, but it would be my second period & made sense to be at that time. Argh. I'd better not be.

Schulte, George poos quite a lot - sometimes very liquid (we call it Bum Gravy [boak]) & sometimes bubbly. I wouldn't say 'frothy', but perhaps it starts off that way & dies down after a few minutes? Gosh, that sounds like terrible parenting. Just he poos over a few sessions for 5-10 minutes so we tend to leave him for that time unless he's upset by it. Usually he carries on playing happily until he's done.

Boff, I'm intrigued about this amazing orgasm news. I'm hopeful I was reading the side effect section of the leaflet & found no mention of that! I did get worried that I may be afflicted with a painful erection, though

Welcome to JumeirahJane! Don't feel for joining - in fact try not to feel around here for anything. It can get a bit... raucous.

Speaking of people from far away, I wonder how Barbarella is?

Bleu, make sure you complain about the missed post. We had this a lot but after a few phonecalls it miraculously doesn't happen anymore.

Bicnod, sorry things aren't good there xx The reason Puzzle was asking is discussed a little more thoroughly on the group itself, I think. You'll be able to read it now (when you can get on!) It's difficult to explain here IYSWIM.

Bicnod - have added you to FB

<<Flashes administrator status>>

argh...spilt tea over laptop. laptop dead. posting from dh's phone. oscar sick tummy bug ~ off to doc tomorrow. not good day. hugs to all x x x

puzzle i'm sr... hope is ok? x

Back pain here, too. I always have it but especially now, from carrying / lifting H and bending over her as I feed her / change her nappy. Lots of rest should help, being careful how you move and about your posture, and swimming. But this is all theory It gets better when they start walking!

Waves to JJ, I'm a bit random so expect anything

RandomAndAnnoyedAtHisFamilyTiggaxx

The shot I got to help get the placenta out quicker (is it oxytocin I cannot remember now) made my leg hurt where it went in until about 3 weeks ago (so until week 11). It especially hurt when walking up hills. Gp thought I was a bit mad i think

Welcome JJ! I too am a 'Brit abroad', so in a similar boat with being a very long way from family etc.

Did you have your baby over there? Mumsnet is a godsend for getting a bit of a UK point of view. Things are quite different here (Scandinavia - won't say where in case anyone from RL reads this!) and it's funny to compare the different approaches (mashed potato at 3 months anyone?????).

Good grief my back hurts like hell...is anyone else suffering from a bad back after pregnancy and childbirth? It's killing my back having to carry round that chunky monkey of mine. My posture is crap too! What do you think might help - chiropractor, massage, physio? I think it's muscular. Also I get some localised pain in the skin around where my epidural went in....apparently there's "no scientific evidence that epidurals cause back pain" according to my research of medical journals (case of damned lies and statistics I think!).

I completely forgot to put my nappies in the washing machine today and they really stink! I really am a slattern when it comes to housework!

Do you want to know how hormonal? I looked at a teeny tiny baby today and thought 'ooooooooo I really want one' What the hell?!? I have no real desire to be preggy and dealing with labor again for some time. -everytime my back twinges in the least I get labor flash backs... and I so do not want to deal with feeding a newborn again for a long while...

Argh! Somehow I missed the post (have a ticket through the door) even though I've been sitting on the couch (right next to the stairs which leads to door) and NO ONE KNOCKED. Why the hell can't British post-people knock on the bloody door? Now somehow I'm going to have to find my way to the collection depot! :P Such a stupid waste of my time when I was in the damn house and doing nothing which could have stopped me from hearing the god forsaken door if only the imbeciles would learn to knock proper...

have I mentioned I've been up since 4.30 and am tired and hormonal?

Bronze

Hopefully not swine flu.. Dh is poorly and it crossed my mind as he's never poorly...

Idon't really know what to say. Every things going really well here. Izys a dream .

DD is not well, considering swine flu but am just monitoring her at the moment

school holidays start tomorrow so lots of internet as I sit in the office overlooking the garden

so much to catch up on

but first

BB- if he does it again blow suddenly in his face

DD fed and changed, DH back on cuddle duty, sun has set, off for a swim now to ease my pacing limbs .

Thanks for the warm welcome. Live near the Palm (in the Greens overlooking Emirates golf course, for anyone who knows it). DH is architect working on project on the Palm though.

Not half as glam as it sounds though, going AC stir-crazy, even kids play area is indoors and AC, can't wait for summer hols in France to escape and be outdoors during daylight hours. DD won't know what to make of the greenery.

Welcome JJ! Dh and I considered Dubai for a short while. (Dh is a IT contractor) Whatcha doing there? I'm American, but living in Cardiff... so even though I'm in the UK it different for me.

Oooooh, do you live on The Palm???

Hi JJ, Welcome! We're mostly UK, though spread all over, but we have outliers in France, Scandinavia, Oz......any others ladies? How are you and your DD coping with the heat in Dubai? Lots of AC I imagine?

Hey thanks. Yes, first time mum. Previous auntie experience just doesn't cut it, esp when it comes to coping with sleep deprivation and emotional trauma of baby weight checks etc.

I guess you guys are all in UK, prob same area?

Hi

Welcome to our thread. Are you a first time Mum?

Sorry to gatecrash your lovely party, wish I'd known you all throughout last year. I'm JJ and feel a little asking if I can join your merry crew, as I had my own DD on 5 Apr, am now living in Dubai, just discovered MN, and missing Brit perspective on motherhood.

p.s. Mine's a chocolate cone, two scoops please.

Cornetto pls. Choc and nut.

Sounds like everyone is having a really crappy time of it just now!

I hope things soon start to improve for everyone very soon.

A had his first lot of vaccinations yesterday (they do them at 3 months here rather than 2 months). He seems to be fine so far and hasn't had any side effects yet << touches wood!>>, though he was a bit hot last night. No crazy pooing sessions so far...

Just to add to the complicated mess that is my life at the mo', I've managed to run over a nail in the pram and have completely punctured the tyre! Grrrrrrr. I'm now stuck in the house with A until I can get DH to go and get a puncture repair kit. Could be worse I suppose...

Off to cheer myself up with an ice-cream

Can I get anyone anything from the ice-cream van??

Schulte - At the risk of sounding a bit of a cow, I don't consider my HV to be a terribly bright woman.

Am back. Spoke to HV who said to come to clinic and see them - he sounded like he wanted to make sure I didn't have PND. Why do they always suggest there is something wrong with the mother when you have a valid concern about your baby? It pisses me off. Anyway I went to the clinic, where I waited for 5 minutes, then thought sod this, I don't need them to tell me that H is fine because that's what they WILL do, so I went to see a friend instead to have a good old moan and am feeling better now.

HV are useless most of the time aren't they. Oh he gave me the old spiel about growth spurts as well. No she isn't having a growth spurt, I know what those look like ffs.

Sorry about rant. Thanks everyone for reassurance though and nappy comparison

Springy - hanging self from rafters is not coping, asking for help is. Also I have it on good authority that Prozac gives some people amazing orgasms, so enjoy it while you can get it. :.)

Schulte - you would not believe the number of nappies Felix sometimes does. They range from facepack to spinach in consistency, with occasional mucus. He is perfectly well though.

BB - I would regain confidence perhaps by going on a baby first aid course once you get home. In the meantime be assured they can easily go a minute without breathing with no ill effects, and generally poking and prodding gets them to breathe, as well as dunks in water and so on to stimulate the system.

I have had my ear toiletted which felt wierd but didn't hurt, and it feels great now.

H usually goes once a day, but had a fortnight last month where he only did 3 poos in the whole 2 weeks, and then the two days last week post jabs when he went 7-8 times daily. 'Tis very variable!

once every 3 days? well for Meg that would be highly abnormal...
Meg poo'd after (or during) every feed and since she was feeding every 2/2.5 hrs instead of 3/3.5 hrs and when I think about it (after talking with dh) I remember laughing about the fact that I changed a diaper and then she poo'd in it right away again. Or I would change a very pooey diaper feed her then she'd poo and I'd change her and then she'd wake herself up to poo in about 15min...
as for the foamy bit Meg had that too after her first jabs... Not this time though.

schulte if you are worried take her to the dr's but it sounds like a mixture of warm weather and feeding more we went through this a couple of weeks ago.

JustTiggaxx

Dawn she is now, but I am offering her the boob all the time as well.

Thread here

schulte is she feeding more than usual?

PooTiggaxx

Who is SR please?

Springy smooches but only in a platonic way - don't sue! Nobody is going to invalidate your feelings by calling you daft for pnd. I will say try not to beat yourself up about it as you have no control over it. Eventually you will start to come out of it, just take the time you need to do that!

HaveHadDepressionIt'sNotFunTiggaxx

H can do up to 3 poos in a row after a feed at the moment. Sorry if TMI but they come out extremely liquid, and sometimes foamy. Colour and smell is normal. Now IS this something to worry about or not? Normally she goes once every 3 days.

she did poo/wee after every feed... and then had major wees in between...I don't remember there being poos in between feeds too, though there may have been.

Bleu - did Meg also poo after every feed, and in between? That's what H does at the mo. Will call HV...

BB I know the panic you must have felt, dd1 did something similar a couple of times when tiny, and as you know h had to go under the resuscitation unit at 2 days old. I too didn't dare leave them alone afterwards, but you will relax after a while, because it's unlikely it will happen again.

FWIW, DD1 stops breathing when she has a febrile convulsion and the doc has explained to me that they've got a reflex to start breathing again when they need the oxygen. I still panic of course and wouldn't hesitate to call 999 any time.

Hope you're feeling okay today. x

BB - Really goo thanks. I'm managing to do my Nell dvd as Ellen does it with me and her dancing about keeps Holly amused. Result!

Bleu - Yes, my BIL taught me to massage that bit of my hand when I have a headache and it does seem to help.

Im really not liking the sound of all this! Violet goes for her third lot of jabs today which means she has to have all three at once so although she hasnt really had much of a reaction before Im guessing that it may happen this time and having just had Oscar with the squits yesterday I dont really want Violet with them now!

Meg took 5 or 6 days to start acting normal again after her jabs and then it was easily 10 or 12 days before her poos started to be more normal... she still has a few which are particularly runny and awful, but surely it can't still be because of the jabs...

Oh Schulte! Hugs. It could very well be she's got something because of a lowered immune system because of the jabs.
How long has it been now?
Have you tried encouraging her to feed a little longer in hopes that she'll last longer?
I would say perhaps another visit to the GP/HV is in order. Perhaps they have some other ideas on what you can do.

I have already changed 3 nappies this morning.

I was up every 1.5 hours during the night to feed or change Hazel.

I have cried down the phone to DH.

There are no words for how fed up I am with this diarrhoea.

Frekkles, like you I think the jabs have broken my baby.

Morning Ladies!
Having so much trouble sleeping lately. I think I'm ovulating which would explain some of it...plus putting Meg to bed early (9.15) last night did me no favors as she was up at 4.30 for a feed, but I went to bed an hour after her and am up now (still)...so not enough sleep to make me sane.
Ah well, hope everyone else stays tucked up n bed late.

Good God BB I can so understand your distress. Hugs. My sister used to do things like that too. My mom would occasionally pinch her in the fleshy bit between the thumb and pointer finger (supposedly an acupuncture point). The shock of it would often make her take a breath. And Puzzle's right, the next time (if there's a next time) you'll be right in there; it was just the shock froze you for a second, but then you went into action and called for help which is really good. And your reaction now, worrying and going over it in your mind again is preparing you once more for what you will do if it ever, God forbid, happens again.
Hugs BB

girls i have posted on our Fanjo group (please please tell me its completely private and members only!)

i love you guys. thank you so much for all the support over the months and especially today!! thank you for the phone calls and your friendship.

i cant thank you all enough for everything you have done for me just by being april mums and fanjo warriors xxxxxxxxxx

Thanks Puzzle

No, we think he just got really scared from his nightmare and didn't know what to do with himself so held his breath - he does it when he has tantrums sometimes but always gives in and cries when he is not getting his own way - and this time he just held it for too long iykwim! But we don't really know will just keep an eye on him and see how it goes!

HOws things with you this evening - seems like it's been a pretty rubbish day for everyone - hope all is good with you!

Oh BB, how awful for you, little monkey. Have you any idea why?
I'm glad he is in fine form again. Don't beat yourself up, you will know what to do if it happens again. Which I hope it wont but ykwim.

Springy and nutts - have emailed and posted on threads - I can't even believe it Nutts and Springy sending you the biggest load of hugs possible!

Wow what a day -

So so sorry to everyone that is having a bad time and sorry for the me post that's about to come...

So Karahan stopped breathing today and I swear I have never been so scared

He was asleep and I was changing his bum as I do maybe five times a day during his sleep at the moment (with the heat and upset tummy he needs very regular changes) so nothing out of the ordinary when all of a sudden he literally jumps out of his skin, screams out loud and then held his breath in fear but did it for too long and properly stopped breathing, went purple then white. It lasted about 30 seconds then my mum got him crying again.

The thing I am most ashamed of is that I was useless , truly useless! I was just screaming at him to breathe and not doing anything, it's only after 10-15 seconds or so that I called for help and they managed to get him started again - I know I am not but I feel like an awful mother - I didn't do anything! I can't believe it - I genuinely don't know what would have happened if I was by myself

He is fine, full of it this evening, giggling and smiling at everyone but I can't shake it off! And I can't sleep as I am so scared it will happen again - he has been having lots of night tremors at the moment which is obviously where the fear comes from so I am worried it will happen again!

Sorry again for the me post x hope everyone is ok!

Springy - so sorry that you're feeling like this as Bleu says, you are in no way a failure - in fact you are pretty much as far from being a failure as you can get. You have recognised that things aren't right and you are taking steps to get it sorted - those are the actions of a strong woman and a fantastic mummy x x x

I just have to say GRRRRRRRR . DH is constantly banging around the house, slamming drawers and doors and waking Oscar up. He is so bloody thoughtless it drives me up the wall. He gets WAY more sleep than I do (I'm bf so all the night feeds are mine) and he can sleep through all O's grunting and beetling where I can't and he STILL has the audacity to complain about being tired. All I can think about is sleep. I dream of it, I yearn for it, I want it almost more than anything in the whole wide world. For DH to jeapordize the little sleep I can get by being thoughtless, banging around and generally winding me up (he can be a patronizing stubborn arse at times - actually, a lot of the time - and usually he upsets me/starts an argument just before I'm about to go to sleep - hence no bloody sleep for me) really really really pisses me off. Rah.

Sorry. Rant over. Just read it back and it makes no bloody sense but it made me feel a bit better.

Hugs Springy. I keep starting and stopping the message I want to write in response to you. You're not a failure. You're are coping as going to GP with your concerns shows. 'And being unhappy with things is a real problem' (I'm quoting Dh there; he is always telling me I should recognise this myself). Sometimes one needs a little help doing so, and meds can be that little bit extra which sets you back on the track you want to be on. There's nothing wrong with it, there is no failure in it. Help in it's many forms is what we all need sometimes.

And don't worry about catching up. Just come hang out with us for a while! We love you!

Hugs.

FWIW I now score 16 on the edinburgh thingy and I was thinking that I am better this week

Springy our bodies have been through a complete trauma. Our hormones are all over the place and all of a sudden we are mothers with tiny babies to look after. Although I feel that I am failing in some ways I don't think that pnd in itself is failure and neither should you.

Who have you talked to in real life? My mother happened to be around when I was having a bad day and actually she was far more understanding than I would have imagined.

Springy sweetheart, it's beyond your control, there's no rhyme or reason to it, that's the nature of PND. It happens to the best of us, it's totally indiscriminate. The fact you are addressing the issue is proof of your strength.
You and Nutty and two amazing women, i'm in awe of you both and I know you will both come out of things fighting and stronger than ever before.

How cute of little Meg!

Aren't they just gorgeous our babies... I took H to the supermarket earlier to stock up on nappies and I just love how everyone coos over her - it always lifts the spirits

Must admit I kept nibbling her chubby cheek as I pushed the trolley along too It was just at the right height!

The doc was a complete waste of time as usual. I don't know why I ever bother going because all I'm ever told is that 'it's probably a virus and will clear up on its own' and that my dc's look 'happy and healthy' even when they then go on to have a febrile convulsion a few hours later .

He checked that she wasn't dehydrated (I could see myself that she wasn't) and said to keep feeding and changing her (well, obviously). And that it was impossible to tell whether it had been caused by the jabs, or was a bug. He also prescribed dioralyte (sp) which I can't get down her - fair enough, I wouldn't want to drink that stuff either.

So maybe I am being ungrateful and unreasonable but I wish I hadn't bothered.

Still not caught up (I'm crap at this, I know!), but just wanted to say that I've just seen the HV. I have an appointment with the GP at 3.30 this afternoon, because I scored 22 on that questionnaire & I think I'm going to be given ADs.

I feel like I've failed somehow just in needing them. I know that it's stupid, I really do. If anyone else said that I'd be full of 'don't be daft, it's really common & purely chemical', etc. I do know the facts of it. But in my gut, I feel like a failure. Like I should be enjoying my life as a new mum enough to not need the help.

I really don't mean to offend anyone else who's in this situation (I've not been reading for ages, so I have no idea what I've missed) - I know none of us are failures. It just seems absurd to me that this is the time I'm getting prescribed things when I've dealt with real problems in the past. Oh well. Onwards & upwards.

Much love to you all (especially Nutty today xxx) & I'll come & rejoin the group properly as soon as I feel I can. I hope everyone's okay xxx

Nutty - so so sorry have posted on your thread x x x

Puzzle - thanks for the link, I will be forwarding that on to FIL if I get any more hassle!

Schulte - Sorry you're feeling down at the moment how did it go at the doc?

MrsG - I think I am going to get the angelcare movement only monitor... DH is totally unconvinced and thinks I'm being a bit hysterical about it... I just know I won't be able to sleep if I don't have some extra reassurance that O will be ok. I always listen for his breathing when I wake up and I won't be able to do that if he's in his own room, so will probably be up and down even more than I am now checking he's alright... DH probably right, I am a paranoid mummy but having a monitor is the only way I can deal with him going into his own room (which DH wants and I don't by the way) and DH just doesn't seem to get that

LOL at your freezer dream don't think you're losing the plot any more than the rest of us (although not sure that's saying much...)

Dawn - at your 7 hours... still hoping O will go more than 4 1/2 at a stretch... it will happen <desperately trying to convince myself emoticon>

Bleu - how cute is Meg?! its those little moments that make it all worthwhile... Oscar keeps taking himself off the boob to give me huge milky grins and a-goos at the moment which is gorgeous and makes me want to eat him all up.

Kali - at the mashed potato suggestion! It does make sense that big babies need to feed more to maintain their vast bulk... still hoping my little fatty will learn to sleep for a bit longer (nighttime and daytime naps) - I'm with you on the zombie-ness

Boff - fingers crossed the drops work x x

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO tired today... off to stay with mum and dad next week so at least won't have to deal with housework/cooking etc... will try and leave O with them for a bit and escape for some naps/walks on my own as well - have only left him with DH so far...

Right, better go, Oscar's in his cot shouting and refusing to nap

LOL MrsG!! The freezer?????!!!!!

Juwes, I have the proper ear drops now. Regarding H, you don't know anything until you know something, as they say. Wait for the consultant to have a proper look.

Hi everyone. Hope you're all having a good day so far.

A had his first vaccination today . Poor soul. He was really good though and just had a little cry. Quite relieved because I was dreading it and thought he would scream the place down. He seems ok for the moment.

WFS I have pre/probiotic drops that I give A when he's particularly windy. I think they may also be useful for re-colonising the gut after antibiotics. They taste foul, but if I stick A on the boob straight after he doesn't have the time to spit them out!

Is anyone else giving their baby vitamin D drops??? All babies here are given them until they're 2 years old. I've been a bit lax about it though since we've been having sunny weather.

Bicnod I feel your pain! A had an ok night following his night from hell, but last night he was up and down like a yo yo again . I'm feeling like a zombie again. I talked about it to the nurse today and she thought it was because he's hungry. Since they have a growth spurt around this time she reckons they need to be fed more often to boost milk supply (if BF) or given more formula. She suggested I persevere, but if he is still hungry after a couple of weeks to give him a bottle of formula in addition to usual feeds. She also said that I could start giving him mashed potato when he's 4 months old(!) Think I might be ignoring that..... He's now 15 and a half pounds at 13 weeks, so needs plenty of milk to maintain his chunky-monkeyness!

Nutty I'm so sorry things haven't worked out between you and your husband . I hope you're ok.

Boff Having such a sad thing happen in the past must make the current swine flu situation such a worry for you! Two of my siblings and their partners currently have swine flu (they live in London). They're ok though - apparently it's like normal flu and knocks you out for a few days, but isn't worse than that unless you're very unlucky or have health problems. I think normal flu can also be fatal in a small number of cases. It's causing such a furore because it's so virulent. I haven't heard much about it where I live though, so maybe the situation here isn't as bad as in the UK.

Oh - A's up again. Will catch up more later.

Bleu - That's so adorable. Smart girl.

I have another little 'wow!' moment about my Meg....
We feed on both breasts and for the final feed of the day we lay on my bed, with Meg in the middle and I then change positions from dh's side to mine or vice versa. Well, last night she was laying on her side facing me on dh's side and she must have decided that she was finished with that side because she stopped feeding and rolled over onto her other side then started doing the open mouth 'feed me' face on that side. i rolled her back over to feed on the side i was on, but she wasn't interested and rolled back the other way and did it again paired with a squawk. it was very cute. i feed her on that side then re-offered her the first side again which she then took.

Lol Puzzle and MrsB
Personally I assume the cat will take care of Meg when I leave her...

Snort @Puzzle.

<<Polishes spotlessly clean, crumbless oven>>
<<lies>>

A fraction above the -3 line on that chart!

ju nope new WHO charts came out recently. No more will there be seperate charts, just this one based on the most up-to-date information for bf. Only babies in the UK born after 12/05/09 will get the automatically, I've had to fight to get them to use this one only. But then I'm bolshy and they know it

PITATiggaxx

if anyone can help on my thread please, thank you xxx

<<Accepts Godzillaness from Tigga>>

See - we can't win! If your baby is not on the 50% line, they get at you, which is not the point of centile lines!!! Our red books have breast and bottle charts already, so have assumed the breast charts were the most up-to-date WHO ones.

Dawn - Hooray for sleep.
I'm always snoozy after a swim.
Thanks for the link.

Sorry, that's an entirely Kaz-related post! Should move it onto FB really!

MrsG - If I nip out with a fancy man I at least put my children in the oven so they are warm. And there may be some crumbs and fat to sustain them. Tsk.

Ju would passing some of Sam Godzillaness in your general direction help? I'm starting to get it from the HV's now as 'he's putting a lot of weight on' 'how are his feeds going?'. I'll pass you some of his eat for Brittain and put weight on if you like.

Having said that he was 5 weeks early, if I plot him on the WHO bf chart with -5 weeks he hits what use to be the 75% line and is now line 2. If I plot him for 12 weeks he's just over average so it's all bllcks in my uninformed-just-a-mum experience.

Click here to download your chart, you need to scroll to the bottom and find out where H plots on the new charts you might find it quite heartening

GettingMoreAnnoyedWithSomeHV'sTiggaxx

Well my diary on the whole is blank, so pretty much anytime will do for me!

David is at a school somewhere down this way, so not mainstream. Sounds like he is doing really well though. They're going to the lakes for the school hols, but she's going to come and visit when they get back.

You don't see many men in boaters strolling around Medway.....but a few sandwiches in Capstone would work! I'm thinking you, me, Eliz, Laura, Yvette, Tania.....

Nutty so sorry lovey

Hi everyone. You were all right 5 days and it settled down. We had 6 solid hours of sleep last night from Sam - YAY! Of course he woke up every 2 hours after that but I can cope with at least a little sleep. I think it might have something to do with Puddleducks but I'll take my sleepy boy any way I can get him

This morning he decided to throw up spectacularly over me, why does he never do this on his dad????? No temp and seems in fine fettle so I'm not worrying even though he's been a tiny bit sick again. This is the one thing that gets me with breastfeeding, with bottle feeding you can just fill another bottle it's a tad harder to do that with a boob! Tiny grrr face, we should have a grrr face emoticon in tiny, middle and large

GettingSomeSleepIsFunTeamNuttyTiggaxx

Morning all - am back from Slough and shall try to catch up.

Nutty really sorry to hear your news.

Boff for your ear, and your experience of flu. That must have been so terrible for you. And I can understand the raging anger at not having been able to get help from the dr.

Juw hugs for continued weight gain worries.

Schulte hugs for being in a house of illness.

Auld you poor thing you must be exhausted.

Puzzle same boat here it's the older one that's costing us so much sleep!

Bicnod we have the Angelcare breathing monitor too and it's great. Not that we're using it much as E won't sleep on his own for more than maybe an hour a night.

BB burnt ankles? Yowch. Hope they're better now.

Now ladies I am feeling rather sorry for myself and what I probably need is for you all to laugh mercilessly at my troubles. I feel... exactly like someone who has just had as her main family holiday for the year, two nights in Slough. A holiday which I actually spent some hours planning including a detailed planning and packing session for Legoland (DS1 did enjoy it but mostly he wanted to play Lego, buy Lego in the big shop and then take it home and play with it in the hotel and at one point threatened to have a tantrum because we were trying to make him go on a ride. Odd child). Needless to say my role in the day was to walk miles with baby and bags and provide regular doses of clean dry clothing after DH let him go in the water fountains in his outdoor gear . DS1 is clearly behind in his abilities to steer a car - he was comically bad at the driving school (we laughed ourselves stupid at the time) but definitely looked like the dunce of the class, even though they were all the same age. He just propelled the car merrily at pavements, people etc. without paying remotest heed to where he was going. And when his doting parents yelled over the railings to him to "STEER" he would just wrench the steering wheel round to perform a majestic U-turn. Oh dear.

And then I had a ghastly nightmare about Edmund that I had gone out to have lunch with the local bookshop owner - whom I do not fancy by the way in case it sounds suss - and left E behind. Only I'd absentmindedly put him in the freezer. So I ran back to the house, only to discover one of the NCT incrowd had broken in to my house to rescue him and had phoned for the ambulance already. I have spent the last couple of days rather horrifiedly apologising to Edmund for something that never happened. And reassuring myself that E wouldn't even fit in the freezer drawers anyway so I wouldn't ever accidentally do this.

Do you think I'm losing my mind?

Its good that you are calm just take one step at a time i say. Oh gosh weaning is fairly close for me (about 6 weeks! ) ooh quite scared about it lol. I approve of your doc referral and agree lol.

Chocolate cake was good but feel massive guilt everytime i eat it. (must let chris have it i think).

Dont worry about the text. you are like me unless I reply to something straight away it is out of my head!!

Picnic sounds like a brilliant Idea!!! gosh there are gonna be so many kiddies! Me and tania are also trying to organise a wednesday to come visit you to if thats ok and we can get our diarys synced! (soo complicated)

Oh my days is david that old now. (a lot of the nurses in ofnu remembered him and asked how he was getting on!) Is he going to a mainstream school?

I know what you mean about time flying I only have 4 and a half months till i go back to work. (just in time for the new robot!!) whoopeee......

ooooh picnic... i want a picnic now!!! egg and cucumber sandwiches under a parasol with all the men wearing boaters. (so wouldnt be like that but i can dream.

Hey Kaz - I am mostly calm about it, so far! You're right that new mums (all mums) can't win. However you feed your baby, you'll get flak from someone. Can't wait for weaning! I remember all the trouble Y had (love this talking in code!), I must talk to her about it more. The appt is with Dr BR - I asked for the referral to be addressed to him, because he is such a sweetheart!

How was your chocolate cake? And how are the twinkies? We really must get together. Have just remembered you sent me a text message about a year ago, which I never responded to ! I was thinking maybe we should all get together for a lovely Saturday picnic or something, and have all the pharmacy kids together. Though I suspect Bukky wouldn't come!

Nikki called me yesterday - David is at school now - I can't believe how quickly time flies!

Nutty: Big Big hugs!!! so so sorry...

Boff: Hope your ear is getting better by now.

Hi everyone else.

Ju: try not to feel disheartened. It might just be a natural thing. you and DH are both tall and slim so that might be what little H is doing. Is his height following normal centiles. You know that Y from work had similar issues with I and that it was a turmoil for her too but little I is gorgeous and healthy just small. Dont let anyone make you feel that you are doing the wrong thing BF you are not. but also dont feel the burden of guilt if something else is required. It is all just dependent on the individual baby. I have it from the other side where I think some people frown on me for the fact that I didnt BF. So I think sometimes us new mums cant win! Also have yoy heard that they are changing all the growth charts anyway cos they were based on ff babies. and that bf babies put weight on at a slower rate anyway. Like you say there maybe a simple explanation such as dairy intolerance which can be sorted. Please dont start worrying about things like CF cos as you say your knowledge will make you worry! ..

As you say H is fine in himself which i think is more an indicator of health than anything!

Hope your consultant appt comes through soon. is it with DR P?

Take care try not to get worked up. and ignore silly comments.

kazzie

Hugs Nutty, Ju, Boff, Auld, Brett, Schulte. We'll get through these things. Hormones are and lack of sleep are some of the problem I'm sure. Low levels of seratonin make things much more glum. Try to de-stress when possible. And take joy in the laughter of your little ones. Hugs.

Ju - Perhaps he should shout at next weigh in.. "I am not a number!"

I must get blinds this weekend, it's mad that our sleep is being disturbed by the two year old and not the baby. Holly's an absolute dream

Boff, thanks for the link. I've been trying to restrain my Googling a bit, as I don't want to scare myself . I've been trying not to think of thinking of CF for weeks. Although his Guthrie came out as low risk, it doesn't rule it out. He seems to have quite thick saliva (though I have no baby-saliva frame of reference) and sometimes has mucus in his poos, and I can't help wondering if this could be thick secretions due to something like CF. But then, I imagine he would have had a chest infection by now. Who knows? This is why it is best not to think about it too much! It's definitely a case of my little bit of knowledge about such things being a dangerous thing! I've also been trying not to think of it as 'failure to thrive', as that's such an awful title, but I don't really think I can avoid that now. I also don't want to mention such thoughts to DH, as if I do, he will really panic.

I'm wondering whether he could have a milk protein allergy and I should try giving up dairy. This would be good fun as I am a bit of a dairy monster, So far today I have had a bowl of porridge made with milk, tea with milk, and a (milk) chocolate cupcake containing buttermilk, with cream-cheese butter frosting. I'm sooooo not designed for dietary restrictions!

Puzzle - I too was up with H at 5.30am, as he was wide awake. Perhaps it is the light, although a week ago he was sleeping until much later. He spent all of last night thrashing his arms and legs around like a loon. Not as bad as Sunday night, however, when at 3.30am he suddenly screamed like a cheerleader in a horror movie. I leapt up, obviously still asleep, and also started screaming (though I don't entirely remember this!). He did it 5 or 6 times and then settled back to sleep. Poor DH was terrified to wake to both of us screaming! Assume he must have had a bad dream (H, not DH ). My Mom had a helium balloon for her 60th birthday, and H spent much of the weekend being entertained by Grandad bobbing it around, so I wonder if he was being chased in his dream by a big ballon, like Patrick McGoohan in The Prisoner!

Surprise - practically drove past your house at the weekend on the way to The French Hen in Clent!

Oh Nutty love, I'm so sorry. If there's anything I can do, you have my number. Huge (((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))

Oh shit nutty that's just so horrible we are all thinking of you.

Sorry for any confusion, Hannah's weight is actually fine, it is true that she is quite a thin baby but she's following the 25th centile and I was the same. It's me who has issues with feeding, not her. It was in the very early days she didn't put on weight rather than being a current problem.

Purple, my DH made me book an appointment at the doctors because of my horrible mood swings. I didn't have to tell the doctor I had PND though, she told me that . I've now got hv coming out tomorrow morning.

Must go, Hannah has woken up and is now screaming the place down

so sorry to hear that nutty. will ring as soon as i get a moment (currently feeding).

Schulte - You do seem to have had more than a fair share. Here's to ensuing perfect health.

Purple - You know men can't be expected to look for things properly. Tis a biological phenomenon.

Puzzle, thanks for asking. H is still pooing so I'm taking her to the docs this morning. I've been feeling a bit down lately because there always seems to be something wrong with one of the girls. Ah well. I suppose this is what it's going to be like for the next few years so I might as well get used to it.

oh god nutty! i'm so sorry

Hi all!

re: poo and jabs. After Isla has her first jabs DH was changing her and said "oh yes, post jab poos! I remember those!" SO if my DH noticed then it must have been a big thing. (personally I have no recollection of it with DS but then i was in a daze for a year or three and don't remember much!!)

sorry for those who are having weight gain issues. how are the babies in themselves? alert? developing? lots of wet and dirty nappies? It's difficult, especially when you BFing, because you can't gauge how much they are actually taking in. you start to doubt yourself. but there really is a very very very small percentage who don't have enough milk. you are doing great. just like adults, babies come in all shapes and sizes.

Brett - i'm sorry about the PND. I'm there with you babe. how did you get diagnosed? at my gps i always have to tell them i've got it. they never ever pick up on it [edinbrgh test is useless!!]

well, i didn;t end up going to my meeting. couldn't risk it. but something has come out since then. i think that was my shit quota for the week!

DH has lost his wedding ring in the house somewhere...driving me nuts trying to find it. i'm not good at keeping house. i'm untidy and a bit of a pack rat. i was like this when he married me...why is it such a surprise now?? oh and I DIDN;T LOSE THE EFFING THING...YOU DID!!! thank you. i feel better now.

typing one handed suuuuuuucks.

Oh Nutty. You know we're always here if you need us.

Nuts - You have my email and mobile. Please use them any time, day or night, if you need an ear.

Nutty - I dont qute know what to say but just wanted you know I will be thinking of you. We will still be here when you feel up to/are able to come back (((hugs))).

Fuck, Nuts, what the hell? I am so sorry sweetheart. I don't know what to say.

Good morning

I really must pull my finger out and get some blackout blinds for Ellens room. She has been up at 5.30 for the last two days. Thankfully she just wants Daddy.

Has anyone else seen Madagascar? Ellen can't stop singing "I like to move it move it" while shaking her bottom.

BB - Ouch. Did you just forget to put lotion on that one area?
Have you ever used P20? I love that stuff.

Schulte - How is H today? And you for that matter, you seem to have had worry after another lately.

Ju - I assume your Dad didn't mean to be offensive but bloody hell! Did you tell him how upsetting such remarks are?

WFH - I'm glad Orbit's colic is improving. Enjoy your house guests.

Bicnod - If they keep hassling you about CC, show them this or some other such research.

chris ended it last night, neiter of us have anywhere else to go so we still have to live together for now but our relationship as man and wife is over.

theres a lot to sort out so i wont be on for a while.

i'm sorry xxx

Brett, hope you get some answers, even if it is that there is nothing actually wrong.

Bleu, glad your DH seems to be seeing the light a bit.

Boff, your DD's transformation makes me almost want to start the Flylady regime.

Well, isn't this just typical. After several nights of waking me up at 1am, Alex is still asleep at 3am. I, however, have been lying awake for hours trying to get my mind round the enormous amount of things still to be done before the move on Saturday. I am very behind, after my weekend of mastitis, and there are endless unconnected things to get done (service the car, arrange for Alex's 3mth checkup which is now well overdue, go for fanjo physio, feed Alex regularly...) in between manic packing. I have moved house about 12 times, and never has it been such chaos.

Yes, it's difficult because nobody actually knows the cause. After all this time an urgent referral is obviously the best thing and he is putting some weight on after all and it seems sensible to get a professional opinion before changing anything. TBH in our case I think switching has done me far more harm than her. In terms of her it may well have been the right thing. It's very frustrating that it isn't something that you can try and go back to.

It may well as Boff said be nothing because the growth charts are only what the average baby does anyway - he may just catch up later.

Juwes, thanks for advice about ear drops. I will try to get the Sofradex ones.

Now thinking about Hugo, I really can't see how switching from perfectly formulated and dynamic human milk to a product designed for calves (albeit with minor adaptations) is going to do any good at all, tbh. I am sure it is more likely to be a)something metabolic, in which case ff can surely only make it worse, b) something anatomical such as the shape of the mouth, in which milk type is absolutely irrelevant or c)something insignificant which will resolve itself around the time of weaning and make you wonder why you were worried.

I am glad you are seeing the consultant though.

Hey Boff. I would ask your GP if he can do you a prescription for either Gentisone HC (if your current one is for plain gent drops) or Sofradex. Seems pointless to continue with current ones. The other possibility is that it is fungal, or started of bacterial but the prolonged use of abx has lead to a fungal infection. Have they taken swabs? If not, poss ask if they can swab at your toilette session? Fungal ear infections are, I understand A Bugger.

Brett - I completely understand what you mean about the switch to ff contributing to your PND. Every time I think about doing it I can feel myself welling up. I know it's silly but I am so scared that if I start ff it will be the beginning of the end of breastfeeding, and if that happened I would feel such a failure. What if he's getting plenty of bm and there's something else wrong and I deprive him of all the benefits of bm? But what if he's not getting enough and he's just plain underfed? It would be so much easier if I could try ff for a couple of weeks to see the effect, and be able to go back to bf if it makes no difference.

Boff so but try not to think about what if's - it's difficult I know. She/he will always be with you. Sending lots of hugs your way.

So H has gone to sleep with a full tummy. Fingers crossed she won't poo it all out again in the next hour or so... feeling a bit down and lonely because DH is away on business all week so whatever happens, I'll have to cope with it on my own. Ah well. Better go to bed now because who knows what the night will bring. Hope everyone gets a good night's sleep.

Thanks Boff and brettgirl - will look into the baby alarm thing then... might be the way forward as currently getting bugger all sleep with O in our room...

Bleu, I feel your pain - O has been whiny ALL DAY he's currently lying on his playmat fed, burped, clean nappy, played with, rested (we just got back from a march around the streets so he could sleep in his buggy) and he's STILL whiny... oh well, tomorrow is another day...

Don't you just love baby whining? Doesn't it make you feel all relaxed and happy?

Oh yeah, Bicnod we have the angelcare alarm. It can be reassuring unless it goes off in the middle of the night which is has twice in the past 3 weeks! Unsurprisingly it's the alarm that was faulty rather than the baby

BTW Juwes, I am supposed to have gentomycin ear drops but the pharmacy can't get hold of them and just told me to keep taking the old ones. Does that sound appropriate t