I have absolute proof that there is no God.

(1000 Posts)
seeker Sat 18-Aug-12 14:51:55

I've just seen in our local paper that a little girl who lives in our town has died. She has been the focus of much prayer since she was taken ill last year. Her parents were thoroughly good Christian people who trusted God absolutely.

The is no way that a loving, omnipotent, beneficent God who notes even a sparrow falling would not have answered these people's prayer.

So, if I had even a scintilla of doubt, it is now gone. There is no God.

cazboldy Sat 18-Aug-12 14:54:39

sad

kind of my reasoning too

BeaWheesht Sat 18-Aug-12 14:55:27

How sad. My thoughts are with her family. If her famly believe in God though it may give them some comfort though.

I am not as sure as you, but I can understand why you feel that way. A girl the same age as my dd (under 2) is currently battling cancer and the only question I have in my head is 'Why?'. I can see no possible way that it could ever be justified.

monsterchild Sat 18-Aug-12 14:56:56

I agree. And i just don't believe it when all the god-fearing types say that God felt the pain just as much and perhaps it was her time and all that. Certainly there is no God who can change outcomes that humans couldn't change themselves.

MsLydia Sat 18-Aug-12 14:58:23

That's not actually proof though is it?

belgo Sat 18-Aug-12 15:00:09

That's very sad for that little girl and all the family and people who have been praying for her.

But my reasoning is, maybe God saved another child, half way across the world, who has had no one to pray for them?

seeker Sat 18-Aug-12 15:03:13

What, instead, belgo? He chose?

expatinscotland Sat 18-Aug-12 15:04:10

'But my reasoning is, maybe God saved another child, half way across the world, who has had no one to pray for them? '

I don't think t works that way, like some titt-for-tatt or quid pro quo.

Thousands prayed for my daughter. I trusted God. She died.

I don't know what to believe anymore, tbh.

LadyKooKoo Sat 18-Aug-12 15:05:56

Terrible and tragic things happen every day. They always have and they always will, that is just the way it works. It certainly doesn't make me question whether there is a God or not.

belgo Sat 18-Aug-12 15:10:31

Of course I don't think God chooses, I personally don't think he works like that at all.

I'm not sure that praying works at all, because that seems so unfair to me to all the people who don't have anyone to pray for them.

maytheoddsbeeverinyourfavour Sat 18-Aug-12 15:11:28

But maybe if God stepped in everytime then no one would ever die? Life would be taken for granted because there would be no death?

I do struggle with this question, I think everyone does

Absence of evidence is not proof. I appreciate your sentiment but you do not have proof either of God's existence or the lack of it.

nickelcognito Sat 18-Aug-12 15:12:38

free will.

expatinscotland Sat 18-Aug-12 15:14:11

Well, by that token, really, FA in the world is fair. But love isn't a bargain or a quid pro quo.

I suppose it depends on your definition of what God is - an Infinite Intelligence, positive forces in nature, Allah, Yeweh, Buddha, Krishna, &c or all of these.

Or none of these.

While I feel the pain of my child's being taken away from us after a painful and terrible illness, perhaps on the other side of the coin, her passing spares her from inevitable further pain that would have been associated with her illness.

nancy75 Sat 18-Aug-12 15:15:21

Nickel can you explain the free will argument when it is in relation to the death of a child? I'm certain that in almost every circumstance given the free will to decide the out come both the parents and the child would opt for the child to survive.

Vagaceratops Sat 18-Aug-12 15:17:07

You seem to spend you whole time on here Seeker trying to make others feel bad about their beliefs. Yet if Christians spread their beliefs we are 'shoving it down your throat'

Is it one rule for you and one rule for another?

expatinscotland Sat 18-Aug-12 15:17:44

'Nickel can you explain the free will argument when it is in relation to the death of a child? I'm certain that in almost every circumstance given the free will to decide the out come both the parents and the child would opt for the child to survive.'

See, I don't think we can definitively say that, either. My child was so so tired and ill. She fought sleep, and I often think she did this because inside, she felt if she slept she would die, and was frightened of this (my fault, I didn't prepare her because we did not expect it). But once forced to sleep, via sedation, she died quickly.

I felt she could hear us, but I'm not sure, and gave her the option of either one.

Again, I don't know if it was a choice for her.

I'm more of a Spiritualist myself, though.

ginmakesitallok Sat 18-Aug-12 15:21:05

Thing is Expat - if it is god's will that a child lives or dies it is also his choice whether children get sick in the first place. The doctrine of "free will" doesn't make sense at all to me - what makes God intercede in some cases but not others?? If god exists and just makes these "choices" on a whim then he's not a particularly nice god is he??

expatinscotland Sat 18-Aug-12 15:21:46

Free will is given to men.

expatinscotland Sat 18-Aug-12 15:22:58

And again, at this point, I'm quite confused in my beliefs, having been very recently bereaved of our child, but lean toward Spiritualism and paganism in many ways.

There is no god, there is a universe in chaos and it is intrinsically unfair. We are all just subject to statistics, sadly those statistics mean that some people will be good and have shit heaped on them from above, and some will be utter bastards who get everything their own way. Most of us will fall in the middle somewhere.

Personally, I'm baffled that anyone can believe in god, but that's just me. As for the idea of a loving god who answers prayers... seriously? All the evidence is to the contrary.

ShutTheFrontDoor Sat 18-Aug-12 15:27:36

I agree seeker, a friend was very nearly caught up in the 7/11 nightmare and because she got away said that God was looking out for her.
So he didn't give a stuff about anyone else?
Nah God cannot exist, cos if he does, he is not a very nice person at all.

Nagoo Sat 18-Aug-12 15:33:40

Do people believe in an interventionist God?

I thought they believed in god so that they got the afterlife and to be reunited. So it would be comfort to them that their child was with God now.

BrianButterfield Sat 18-Aug-12 15:37:12

Of course, if a good person goes to heaven if they die, isn't God being kind and merciful to let them die?

iggi777 Sat 18-Aug-12 15:38:39

Have the parents of the little girl given up their faith? I have a feeling they won't see their daughter's death as proof of God's non-existence. Very sad story.

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