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Is anyone else being pushed out of their DC's lives? Does it matter?

77 replies

SidelinedMum · 14/06/2012 20:58

I've name changed as I know ex checks out my online activity and I don't want him seeing this yet, please don't out me if you recognise me!

Before I start, I know that DD is far more fortunate than many DC's as her Dad does care about her, spends time with her and financially supports her. I am not suggesting for one minute that she would be better off without him around, but I'm hoping that I'm not the only one who has ever felt the way I do at the moment, and ask for advice from those that have, or are, in the same position as me.

Since ex and I split 3 years ago, we have had 50:50 care of DD (11). She spends a week with each of us. It hasn't been easy, and there are days when I regret not following my solicitors advice and seeking a less equal split of care. Sad

My ex has, from the outset, made choices which appear to be an attempt to exclude me from my DD's life. He arranged for her mail to be forwarded from the family home to his new address, he tried to change her GP to one nearer his new home, and he changed her primary place of residence with the school and local Children's Services Dept to his new address, arguing that he has as much right to as I do.

He has also established a much closer relationship with my family than while we were married, which they have supported by ensuring that their family events - such as weddings and christenings - are scheduled at a time that means that DD attends them with him, rather than me.

When he decided that he no longer wanted DD to walk to my house after school each day until he finished work (which was the regular arrangement) he didn't talk to me or DD in advance about it, he went to a solicitor and arranged for a letter to be delivered to me after DD had gone to school on the day it was going to happen and the first DD knew of it was when her Dad turned up to pick her up from school.

There have been literally dozens of incidents, which taken individually seem fairly innocent, but when put together, become a pattern of behaviour that seem to be designed to minimise my role in DD's life.
Ex arranges and takes DD to all her dentist appointments - occasionally he will email me to tell me what has been said. I asked him for details of the dentist DD sees recently, and he emailed me back to say that he thought he was in charge of her contact with her dentist. (He did provide me with the details when pushed, though).
When DD told her Dad that she and I had been planning her first solo bus journey the following week, he arranged for her to take a solo bus journey before she saw me next.
When DD asked him if she could spend an extra day with me because a friend of mine had offered to introduce DD to her own DD and friends who she will be going to secondary school with, ex made direct contact with my friend (via her place of work) and arranged to drop DD off and pick her up himself.

When DD asked her Dad for her passport so that she could open a bank account that she and I had been talking about, he took her to open a different account before she next saw me. (he has her passport & her Birth Certificate, oh, and her baby box with all her scans, hospital bands, formal baby photos etc in, which he took when he moved out).

I have tried to take the high ground, tried not to allow it to bother me, tried to keep DD's best interests at the forefront of my mind, but it is really, really hard.

On the one hand - does it make a difference to DD? She is still doing all the things she wants to - it's just that she does them all with her Dad, not me. On the other hand, is his desire to be involved in everything creating a superficial relationship between DD and myself?
He has a right to know what is going on in her life; but when he is told by DD or myself of plans that we have together, he then ensures that she has that experience with him first, instead.

Am I alone? Mad? Stupid to worry about it?

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Alurkatsoftplay · 14/06/2012 21:21

This sounds really difficult for you. He is clearly wanting to be a 'good dad' but is going about it really aggressively which is not good at all.
I think if DD were very young, and if you had years and years of this to go, then it would be a real problem. However, the fact that she is 11 and will very soon be making up her own mind about things is good news. Over the next couple of years, she'll be taking care of a lot of this stuff herself. Maybe you will have to confirm with her that she can do that: eg. If you want your blah blah here, I'll just get it for you."
I would be really wary of telling him things in advance - If he's going to spoil them, don't let on your plans. Even if that means you have to spring it on your daughter, or ask her not to mention it...
As for him being close to your family, that would really piss me off. My ex (50-50) split gets on v. well with mine but he wouldn't be invited to stuff without checking with me first.
I imagine he was horrid to be married to...

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AndImFeelingSoBohemianLikeYou · 14/06/2012 21:43

If you have PR (I assume you do), then you are entitled to know about all medical treatment, and both parents' consent is needed. So don't let him fob you off!
Might be time to go see a solicitor again...? Parental alienation is still quite unknown in the UK system, but he really does seem to be pushing you out. Surely he can't just decide on his own that he will pick her up from school rather than her going to your house?! Perhaps have a think if you really have a 50/50 split, and insist on your time with DD.

Don't tell him things in advance if you can avoid it. Focus on making your time with DD real quality time so you have a good relationship.

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RedHelenB · 15/06/2012 13:30

Don't your family want you there at the gatherings? Can't you both go to the dentist with dd etc?

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SidelinedMum · 15/06/2012 14:27

Oh, I'm invited to family events as well, they are just scheduled for when DD is with my ex; he takrs DD and his fiancee and stays with them occasionally, too.

My relationship with my parents is understandably strained - but i have always made it clear that I would ensure that DD continued to be close to them, but they prefer to maintain that contact with DD through her Dad, not me Sad He took DD to a recent family christening 100 miles away, that I also went to - he spent all his time with my parents and they only exchanged a few words with me Sad

As for going to the dentist together; , I've stopped agreeing to go 'with' him to things even when he suggests it as it becomes a bit of a circus - he takes his fiancée and often his mum and/or sister/SIL along too and justifies it by saying that it's 'nice' for DD and he has every right to Sad

I am going to write to the dentist, explaining that I expect to be asked for permission (as well as her Dad's) before DD has any treatment, though.

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SidelinedMum · 15/06/2012 14:31

bohemian without a court order he can decide to change the arrangements whenever and however he wants - and I can choise to either go along with it, or object and expose DD to a scene where both her Dad and I were at the school insisting that she come with each of us respectively - but I'm not sure seeing her parents fight over her would he the best thing for her?!?

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Mumfun · 15/06/2012 21:26

my family are totally out of order in their contact with my ex. And yours seem so too - their behaviour seems totally unacceptable to me -did they blame you for the breakup?

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aokay · 22/06/2012 00:24

I could almost have written this - esp the part with the extended family - their relationship with my ex has caused an almost permanent break with them from me - we send xmas cards and thats it - he attends all family gatherings etc - used to hurt like hell but now I just thiknk they're weird. Glad Im not alone altho terribly sorry for you. My ex tried to remove me from family while we were still together! - don't like sound of his behaviour at all - if he went for full residence now - sounds like he might get it? - Id go back to my solicitor and say not working and do it quick before he puts in anything more permanent on his terms - sounds very creepy. Any bloke who'll cut you out of your birth family is not to be trusted - nasty motivation - no-one decent would do it - ever.

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summerinthesun · 22/06/2012 12:36

Oh no - that sounds a horrible situation. It's true that as she gets older he will have less control but he seems to be trying too hard at the moment and it sounds really unsettling.

I think you should go to your solicitor and find out what if anything you could do. Sounds like he is still going to his solicitor a lot, if he got the solicitor to write you a letter when he didn't even need to.

Good luck!!

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NicknameTaken · 22/06/2012 12:49

I think you should be careful. When there are things you want to do with DD, certainly don't tell him, and you may have to spring them as surprises on DD (I understand that it's not always possible, eg. when she needs her passport which he has). But don't let DD pick up on you feeling hurt and sidelined, if you can avoid it - focus on making her time with you happy and positive (which I'm sure you do!)

I agree with summer and aokay that you should mention your concerns to your solicitor. Even if he does want residence changed to him, I don't think he'd necessarily succeed - a court probably wouldn't find anything wrong with the status quo. But I'm not an expert in family law, and it's worth a conversation, hopefully to put your mind at ease.

I think you're right not to make scenes in front of DD. Concentrate on your relationship with her - ensure it's as strong and deep as possible. As alurk says, it's only a few years to get through till things like the dentist become irrelevant.

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Socknickingpixie · 25/06/2012 05:59

If I was the suspicious type I would be thinking you were a bloke from familys need fathers just changing the mum/dad him/her around to see what sort of response you get from mumsnetters
luckly I not so here goes.
You can do exactly the same things like redirection of mail docs and dentists ect and he can't stop you without a court order you can also get her from school after sending him a letter the same way he did to you. You both have pr.
It's obvious that he's attempting to demonstrate a status quo the next thing to happen will be he applys for the child benefit if he hasn't already.
Get decent legal advice and get it sorted TODAY after all your child had a right to have an equal relationship

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PlainClothed · 25/06/2012 07:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Socknickingpixie · 25/06/2012 07:44

I didn't mean for that to be taken as written sorry it's just my horror at the suituation if that makes sense.
If your unemployed or on low income and recive child benefit for dd then you can claim legal aid as a lone person one child what you earn has to be quite hi for you to be refused please ask or phone community legal advice on 08454565989 they can advise and asses for legal aid they are good pr the other one is rights for women but I can't remember there number they specialise in helping females with abusive or controling x's hth

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DoingItForMyself · 26/06/2012 16:53

That sounds awful for you Sidelined. I feel heartbroken just having to let my 3 go to their dad's for the odd night, but for your Ex to be treating his parenting as some kind of military manoeuvre, designed to take any power away from you, it must feel totally overwhelming.

Not sure I can say anything useful, other than what others have suggested. Don't let him know in advance of any 'special events' so that he can't usurp you and try to concentrate on making your time with DD as much fun as possible (do you really think she enjoys going to the dentist with his entire family in tow?! If that's his idea of showing her a good time, let him get on with it)

I can second the posters who say that in a couple of years, she will be making up her own schedules and organising her own time, so this won't be the way things are forever. As she gets older she will need her mum more too, and by having a break from each other, hopefully you won't fall into the hormonal teenage trap of mums & DDs shouting at each other!

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bleedingheart · 26/06/2012 17:33

You might want to get this thread deleted as the name change hasn't worked.
I hope you work this out, sounds disturbing

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SidelinedMum · 27/06/2012 20:58

Eugh.

just had to attend the moving-up meeting at the secondary school - and yet again, ex was in fine form.

DD has been with me all day today (school closed, ex at work, so despite it being her week with him, she and I spent the day together). But, ex insisted that she was dropped back to him at 4pm, even though we were all attending the same meeting at 6pm Confused.

Before I had even arrived, ex was sending me texts from the school, trying to confirm a time that I could attend the uniform appointment fitting that he was arranging with the official suppliers!
As soon as I arrived, he was practically on top of me, demanding to know whether the date he had picked was OK with me. I have previously had to insist that we arrange a single fitting as he wanted to arrange one with just him for the extra uniform that he is going to buy her. We do have an agreement that he pays me via the CSA and I provide him with everything DD needs at his house - but he is ignoring that and spending extra because he wants to be fully involved. DD (quite understandably) doesn't really want to go through two fittings, and definitely not one with just her Dad!

He was also waving a form in my face; which he has been given when he registered on arrival and asked to check and confirm the details - it contained details of all DD emergency contacts, medical details etc that had been supplied from DD's primary school. Ex had told me that he has made all the changes needed and was going to take off the emergency contact that I had listed as it was no longer necessary!

He then commandeered my DF (the one he made direct contact with about DD spending time with her daughter) and tried to make arrangements on DD's behalf for the DC's to meet outside at a certain time, walk in together etc. The DC's were trying to sort it out themselves, but he kept butting in.
He then insisted that my friend and her DD sit with him, his stbDW and DD during the Principles presentation. I'm afraid I left them to it at that point - my DF managed to extract herself - but I wouldn't blame her if she kept her distance from me in future Sad

After the presentation, I saw DD with her Dad again, and spoke to DD, asking her if she wanted to meet any of the school staff who were available to chat. Before DD had a chance to answer, ex butted in and very aggressively said they (he, his stbDW and DD) were all going to see them together once he had given the form back. He was quite rude about it, and DD looked really uncomfortable.

So, I said my goodbyes to DD and left, rather than make a scene in front of her - but not before arranging for the school admin team to send me a copy of the registration form so I can ensure that the emergency contact I want to provide the school with is recorded. Sad

He has now emailed me telling me that he was stunned and upset that I had invited DD for a tour of the school without talking to him first - and that "DD was there under our care (meaning him and his stbDW) and that our plans were being followed".

Oh dear Sad

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clam · 27/06/2012 21:17

What a vile and unpleasant man. Just reading about him makes my skin crawl, actually. How can you bear this?
(not helpful, sorry)

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Akermanis · 27/06/2012 21:24

It sounds to me that he is creating a situation that makes him primary carer, you need to take control of this situation because I can see him excluding you from DD's life and forcing you to go to court for every other w/e contact.

Go back to your solicitor

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exoticfruits · 27/06/2012 21:37

He sounds very controlling - all I can say is that children are not stupid and they work things out for themselves. I would just make sure that you have a really good time with your DD when you do have her. Make it relaxed so that it is a contrast with his pressurised way. Don't tell him plans in advance. The older she gets the more irritating she will find him. You may have to go back to the solicitor.

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AndImFeelingSoBohemianLikeYou · 27/06/2012 23:16

Actually, DD was there under the care of both of you - it was a special event for HER, and she is entitled to have both her parents with her. So what if it's theoretically 'his' time?! And why was his new partner there?!
I bet your DD was uncomfortable because of him - he doesn't seem like the kind of dad she'd feel strong enough to tell her own opinion. Sad
Keep fighting to stay involved, even if you think you shouldn't. Lay down the law - she is your DD, of course you will attend key events in her life. Is he going to expect her to have 2 weddings when she marries?!!

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purpleroses · 27/06/2012 23:16

How ascertive is your DD in all this? My DS started secondary last September and it's brought about quite a bit of change in terms of him taking control of his own life. For instance, he goes round friends houses after school, or soemtimes just heads back to my house and lets himself in if he feels like it, even if he is supposed to be going to his dad's. It's a bit different as his dad is relaxed about this, and eventually rings him up and tells him to come round. But he's made it clear that he wants to decide for himself where to go in the time between school and dinner time, and doesn't require his parents to be deciding for him. And once you've got all the intial buying uniforms, visiting school, etc over with there's actually much less involvement of parents in secondary school activities. I'm not expected to attend sports days, class assemblies, etc as I was at primary - so less opportunity for your ex to exert his parental status.

Is your DD likely to want to take the situation into her own hands a bit more? Sounds to me as if your ex's issues over controling her life are likely to provoke more friction in the future with her than with you if he doesn't ease up a bit and let her run her own life. Would you be better to take a back seat in it though and try to help her fight the battles herself?

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Sassybeast · 27/06/2012 23:35

This is not healthy. He sounds like an absolute bully. Does your daughter ever express her feelings to him ? Or is she, as you are, bullied into submission ? My eldest is finally starting to stand up to her dad but he is also physically abusive so there is a fine line between what she can do and what he will 'tolerate'.
You cannot allow yourself to be sidelined by this man. Why on earth was his wife allowed to take precedence over you on such an important evening ? I would very quickly add 'your' emergency contact numbers back to the forms.
Stop telling him your plans. I have a load of things planned over the summer - I can't tell the children in advance because if ex finds out, he will go out of his way to make sure HE does them with them. And get your family on side. Do they realise what he is doing ? Do they care ? You are neither mad, stupid nor alone.

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100mph · 27/06/2012 23:50

Maybe he's always been like this. But it could be getting worse if he feels threatened not by you but the changes in DD's life - both specific re. school and the fact that she's getting older/ might have more in common with you as time goes by etc.. It might be making him more defensive/inconsiderate than usual. If there's any chance a facilitated meeting could help you both talk about fears/ expectations /how to make things better for yourselves and DD it might be worth trying. Aside from this as indicated - key concern is how DD feels - if you can raise with her without making things worse you can check - if not, might be worth having a word with her teacher/ counsellor a few months after she's settled so she has someone independent who can check up on her and possible feedback anything required to either / both of you sensitively. good luck -

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exoticfruits · 28/06/2012 06:32

I agree with purpleroses. Parenting a teenager is very different from parenting a younger DC and it doesn't sound as if he is going to make the transition. I would be yourself and she is the one that she will feel comfortable with and the one that she feels takes her views into consideration. Friends become more and more important so I would make sure that you know them and invite them around. As a child I felt much happier when I could just relax without there being expectations. Life with him can't be easy for her.At the moment she is young and he just steamrollers ahead - I doubt it will be so easy soon.

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RedHelenB · 28/06/2012 07:16

Definitely second that you have less involvement as a parent in secondary schools. Just concentrate on the good thing that he is involved, buying dd uniform etc. As to the contacts, surely they would be able to reach you or ex by phone so the others really are secondary. (If school ring you you could ask one of your friends to pick her up for eg & just tell school over the phone.)

Lastly your df, she knows he's your ex so surely it wouldn't affect your relationship with her?

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RedHelenB · 28/06/2012 07:20

ALTHOUGH re the meeting I would have just TOLD ex that it made way more sense for me to take dd to it at 6 o'clock & meet there.

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