How do you teach them that Mummy's the boss?

[chicaguapa]

My dd is 2.5 and genuinely seems to think that she has as much right to make decisions as me and my dh.

She tells us not to do things like talk on the phone or she'll switch the TV off when she doesn't want us to watch it anymore (we hardly watch it anyway!). If we override her (because we're the parents after all) it really really looks like we're being naughty in the same way as if she's been told not to do something and then she goes ahead and does it anyway.

She's not copying our behaviour per se as we don't switch the TV off etc but she does tell us to "Come back" when we walk out her bedroom like we do when she runs off in the park.

It's a bit difficult to explain as the behaviour just comes across as a normal bossy 2 yo. She's a really good girl and generally very obedient which I hope we can owe to how consistent we've been with discipline whilst being relaxed at the same time ie only saying NO when it's dangerous or a definite no no instead of saying no all the time so that they switch off.

I've always tried to be fair when bringing her up and not wanting to give her mixed signals etc. I think she's not just being naughty and that what's happening at the moment is confusing her as she can't understand why we get to do what we want and make decisions final and she can't.

I'm probably reading too much into it which is probably because I'm really interested in child psychology but I'm loathe to start telling her that we get to do what we want because we're bigger and older etc.

Any ideas? Should children understand who's got authority automatically through the parents behaviour or is there some other way to tackle this problem?

[Easy]

BEAT IT INTO THEM WITH THE BACK OF A HAIRBRUSH

No seriously, I'd be interested to know this too, ds is 4.5 and I periodically have major authority problems with him

[Twinkie]

Ha ha - my DD is 3.5 - glad to see you are having the same problems as us!!

I said to DD last week - 'you have to do it because I am the boss - see I am your mummy and you have to do as I tell you - got that cherub' - her answer - 'er no mummy I thought I was being the boss today so you are doing what I say, you do say we have to take turns' - followed by 'you're not being fair' - 'if you would just let me talk for a minute' (all from her!!) and finally 'mummy, I think you'll find that I was talking first!'

In the end I gave up - she's the boss now!!!

[twiglett]

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[twiglett]

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[SoupDragon]

I'm not the boss, DS2 (3) is

[PipBeckett]

I had a similar problem with my son. I explained about rules and how even big people have to follow them. Like daddy has to go to work or else he'll get into trouble and there will be no penny's for things. We covered all sorts of topics about rules, like road safety and strangers and anything he could understand. Although he was 2.5.

Then we got onto house rules and the consequences of not following those rules. Like not shouting at people or else you'd be ignored. Having share time with the TV or no TV at all.

The other thing I tried which really worked was set times for attention. Time with me before dad came home. Mum and dad time to talk without interuption. Then family time where we would all talk whilst eating together. Then time with just dad. It was hard to start off with and we had to use timeout if he kept interupting. He would have to sit on the bottom step for two minutes with the egg timer and then he could come back.

There's lots of things worth trying but I let it go for quite a while at first thinking it was just normal behaviour. It got worse, much worse and he became unmanageable without help from a phycologist and the health visitor.

Hope this helps.

[Twinkie]

Bloody hell -was gonna say it must have been like living in a prison camp when I first read your message - by the end of it I was shocked - sorry it got that bad and sorry to have made a joke of the original question!!

[Janh]

chicaguapa, have to say I don't understand why you feel "I'm loathe to start telling her that we get to do what we want because we're bigger and older etc." - it's true after all!

I still use the phrase "I can because I'm the mummy" sometimes and my kids are 10-21!

[chicaguapa]

Having rules for things seems like a good idea. She'd definitely understand that concept.

I've explained to her all the nice things that good girls get to do like going to soft play, play groups etc. and that naughty girls don't get to go. But then I'm getting into the realms of good & naughty and I've always tried not to call her a naughty girl. Plus I don't think they think they're being naughty, they just think they're being fair.

I always said toddlers were one step ahead of their parents!!

[WideWebWitch]

Agree with Janh, they want you to be the boss. I think it's Steve Biddulph who says without boundaries they feel as if the world is a too big, scary place and they positively want us as parents to be in charge and set rules etc. So the answer to your question about "she can't understand why we get to do what we want and make decisions final and she can't" is it's because you're the adult and you're in charge. I think it's fine to say that to her. No time to write any more but may come back later.

[chicaguapa]

Janh - I don't want to tell her this because I don't think it's true. We can because we're her parents. Not all people who are bigger and older can tell her what to do - it's the wrong message to give them.

I wouldn't want her to think she can tell someone who's smaller and younger what to do and to think that it's okay to be told what to do by anyone who's older and bigger.

[WideWebWitch]

You don't have to call her a naughty girl - you can say "that behaviour is not allowed" I tell my ds that I love him ALL the time but I don't like his behaviour sometimes. i.e we attack the issue and the behaviour, not the child's character.

[Janh]

Well then tell her that - "we can because we're the parents" (and incidentally bigger and older! ) "when you're the mummy you can make the rules, while you're little we do". No big deal.

That's all I meant - not that she has to do what anybody bigger and older tells her - I took your "we" to mean "mummy and daddy", not the entire adult world.

[chicaguapa]

I knew you meant Mummy & Daddy. It's just that children often infer different things and sometimes unless you are absoultely clear they misunderstand and think that it applies to everyone - if that makes sense!

[LHP]

I agree with pipbeckett - giving your undivided attention whenever you possibly can is reaaly helpful. I wouldn't even try to watch the news on tv when its ds is about (he's 2:4), he wants my attention, he wants to play and to chat. I can do my own thing when he's in bed (like now )the rest can wait. I've found that if I want to get chores done, I get him to help eg loading washing machine, dusting, making sandwiches etc. It used to drive me bonkers that I couldn't do those things in peace but now I settle for getting them done slowly, badly but without an argument! Sounds like youre doing a great job with your dd anyway, totally agree re not giving mixed messages.

[chicaguapa]

The trouble with that is that she won't go to bed and she switches the TV off at 9.30pm!!

Anyway, something interesting has arisen. My father-in-law has given me the telephone number of a neighbour who's a child psychologist! A bit drastic, I know but useful to tap into that source of information!

So I will report back with her thoughts...

[Bozza]

Why doesn't she go to bed until that time? What's on TV at 9.30 pm thats suitable viewing for a 2 yo? I think I would be starting to set bedtime boundaries myself. DS knows the bedtime boundaries and of course he rails against them and comes up with excuses but he knows the routines and the rules and it makes him secure as in www's post.

[Janh]

From all the things you've said so far I suspect the time has come for you to start laying down the law, TBH. Child psychology, being fair etc doesn't necessarily do the trick in the face of a determined 2-yr-old.

You are the boss, whether she likes it or not, and she does need you to set her boundaries for her, because she is only 2 and can't do it herself. IMHO she is displaying the potential to turn into a proper little madam - sorry!

[roisin]

I basically agree with JanH - though possibly not so bluntly

In answer to your originally question, I don't think children automatically recognise authority. They see themselves as the centre of the universe, and have to learn how to behave.

We started off with the baseline that our children should treat us in the same way we treated them. But actually realised that you have to do more than that. We all have to respect one another, but ultimately I am the boss, I am in charge, not the other way around.

[Sonnet]

Why isn't she in bed at 9pm? - then the TV issue wouldn't arise.

I agree with what others have said. Children do need proper boundaries so they understand what is expected of them. If she is deciding her own bedtime then she dosn't appear to have any boundaries.

[Kittypickle]

I'm agree with the others about boundaries etc. Forget the psychology, I've got a degree in it and it hasn't helped me at all ! I think it is vital that you tell her when it's bedtime and she goes to bed as told. Children make sense of their environment by learning a set of "rules" . Testing them is totally normal, but they do need their parents to apply them.

[chicaguapa]

I can see how this looks but we ARE firm! Like I've said we've always been consistent with discipline and we're not airy fairy when it comes to it. Some of our friends say that we're quite strict but I think we're just consistent and if she's been told before that she can't do something she's not allowed to do it. Final!

I totally agree with boundaries and how that makes them secure and we try to stick to that as much as possible.

Sleeping is another matter and she usually goes to sleep after a few protests at 8.30pm. We're all night owls and we'd never get in bed before then. Last night she finally went to sleep at midnight which is appalling. During her tantrums at being left in her room with the controlled crying technique (which has never worked with us) she dragged her ironing board to the stair gate on her door and climbed over it! That's when she came downstairs and turned the TV off!

Then having removed the ironing board from her room (the chair has already been taken out) she learned to climb over the stair gate unaided! Then came strolling downstairs again! She just didn't want to go to bed!

It was during the evening that we realised she's got to the stage where she doesn't understand that there's a different set of rules for 'us' and that was why I've decided to try and sort the problem out before she reaches 3!!

[twiglett]

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[Sonnet]

Oo dear Chicagrapa - see you dilema. DH & I have also been told that we are strict - maybe we are but it works for our family and by and large my girls are v.well behavoured so we'll stick with ot.
Bearing that in mind, if I were you then I'm afraid that I owuld tell her that Mummies and Daddies set the rules in the household because they are Mummies and Daddies (IYSWIM!).

I'd carry on putting her to bed at a set time and carry on with bedtime routine, calmy take her back up to bed every time she escaped, telling her it is time for her to go to sleep. I owuld not allow her to turn the TV off - I would explain that it is Mummy and Daddy's "turn" to watch TV - she had her turn in the afternoon etc...
I admit that maybe I am rather rigid - eg both my girls go up to bed at a set time, the younger one has a story, the older one reads for a bit - but all I know is that it works for me..
Good luck

[aloha]

Just keep taking her upstairs again. YOu do have the size advantage her. Actually sit outside her door and everytime she comes out, put her back again, repeat as often as necessary. She won't like it but it won't hurt her. We ALL have to obey certain rules, big or little. If you hit the boss with a saucepan you get fired. If you don't pay your electricity it gets cut off. I actually think allowing children to experience the unfortunate results of bad behaviour is a good idea (eg you broke the toy, you don't have a toy) however it's not always applicable. She needs to go to sleep and you need to relax. She is too young to understand those concepts so it's pointless to explain. Just say, "it's bedtime now and you must stay in your bedroom" and put her back until she gets the message. You will all be happier in the long run. Your daughter may be utterly charming, but if she is allowed to rule the whole family she will be unhappy and less and less charming.