Somehow I missed your update - well done!

Well done!

Can I just add two things though just in case anyone is in a similar situation. Firstly, the fact that the conversation was overheard/did not identify you does NOT mean that it would be poor evidence in a tribunal. Tribunals aren't bound by the same rules of evidence as other courts - they can take into account hearsay for example. Very few tribunal cases get to hear direct evidence of discrimination - most employers are a bit too savvy to say I'm not employing you because you're too old/too young/too black/too pregnant.

Secondly, you can use all sorts of other evidence to show a pattern of behaviour to prove your case - for eg. you could look at the ages of the temps previously hired. This happens lots in tribunals. When they notice that none of the recent temps hired are over 35, it starts to get noticed.

Actually I'm going to add a third thing - just think that at 29, this idiot only has a few more years in the game before he too is classed as old and past-it .....

So pleased this worked out for you.

I suspect that more has gone on at the company than they are admitting i.e. the marketing director's had his arse severely kicked.

That was so awful.

brill

Great result! Yipee!

just seen update..hoorah!something good came out of it at least.one more thing....i bet the guy has a teeny tiny shlong and is horrible to evryone to make himself feel better about having a nub! reckon he goes home to a empty flat(no woman would have him),gets into the foetal position,and crys like a little girl,every night!

Am really sorry for you.several insults for this man instantly sprang to mind,tit seemed to mild,gobshite didn't seem to cover it...i think,arse giblet may do the job?
Am fuming on your behalf.im a year older than this guy by the way,and in no way do i think you are 'old'! my mum turns 60 this year and i don't see her as old either.infact many people comment on how trendy/babelicious she is...am sure you are too!!!just so we're clear,i repeat..you,lovely sexy,intelligent lady.Him.... compete and utter ARSE GIBLET

Meant 'rather than standing there scarlet'

What a twunt. The irony is that had the company not got such an ageist culture they may have had an HR Manager with sufficient maturity to have attempted some damage limitation at least - rather that standing there scarlet.

I may return to work in a year or two, after 8 years out having babies. I naively hadn't realised that I would be up against that sort of attitude yet.

Good luck in your new role.

I have come to this late but bloody hell - could not believe the twats for doing this. I work in HR and just cannot believe this sort of stuff - am on your behalf. Chin up and ignore the gits.

[chortle]

Soupdragon!

I already have cupboards full of age-defying cream and slather myself in the stuff head-to-toe!

And a packet of hair-dye indeed! <sneery emoticon>

That's what my monthly visits to darling Barish at Indulgences Hair and Beauty Salon are for!

Of course she's taking the money!

Well done, glad the network/system/whatever it was worked for you this time

Surely you should put the money towards some age-defying face cream and a packet of hair dye though.

[snigger]

you did pretty damn well in this situation though

Oh yes - I am taking the money!

It will pay for DS's day trip to Boulogne with the school next week .

Thanks again for all your support. With the benefit of hindsight, I realise now that my upset was NOT really caused by remarks about my age. I know I'm not a minging old gimmer, and even If I were, I'm not really shallow enough to let silly remarks made by silly boys get to me.

I just hated being forced into a confrontational situation where I was obliged to take a stand on principle. I don't DO confrontation in the workplace and find it very hard to be assertive in situations like this. Which probably explains why I'm still temping at the age of 48 .

What a result! I know he didn't admit exactly what happened, but at least he has apologised and offered to pay you. He's still an idiot but at least you haven't totally wasted your time. Make sure you buy something nice with your wages

Are you taking the money?

Great result.

Great Result

I have an update for you all!

The agency manager rang me at home today (my day off). She spoke to the MD last week, who said he would look into the matter. He rang her back with the following story.

He admitted that an "indiscreet conversation" had taken place while I was waiting for my interview, but denied that I was the subject of the discussion. He said that it was a conversation initiated by the Marketing guy expressing his dissatisfaction with the candidates who had been sent so far (they had already got rid of one temp) and with the agency in general. He admitted that the conversation should never have occurred in a public place, i.e. the corridor.

The MD said he could understand how I might have misinterpreted what was being said (as IF? ) and sent his sincere apologies for causing me embarrassment.

Apparently he is going to speak to all the staff members involved to make sure they are aware of HR policies regarding confidentiaity, and to revise their policies where necessary.

He has offered to pay me a days wages through the agency to make up for my inconvenience and travel expenses. The agency manager said she was very surprised!

An interesting coda though - we discovered through friends that the MD of this company is a close business contact of one of DH's clients. They are both from the same close-knit immigrant community and attend the same Orthodox church with their families. DH had moaned to this guy about what had happened, and mentioned the name of the company. Coincidence maybe?

His client is far too discreet to spill the beans, and we wouldn't ask him outright. But I suspect the old boy network may have worked to our advantage for once!

I found this interesting, because really it is about humiliation in the workplace, especially women's humiliation. Temps can get it pretty bad, as i know.

IMO I don't think you really have a legal case. I would not expect my "agency" to do much - after all they have split loyalties and would like probably to keep a relationship with the company.

however, i think the remarks were shocking. i would not bother about taking it personally, however awful it was at the time.

but - i would complain in writing to the MD. The guy who made the comments sounds like a nasty snake, and nasty snakes need to be exposed, especially as it will cost you nothing (you never go the job anyway). I would CC to someone too (Human Resources?). One way of expressing your anger, demanding respect, and shitting on that little shit before he shits on someone else!

good luck, whatever you decide to do. BTW, I love being 47 and over the hill, i feel i do not have to put up with so much shit i can tell it how it is, i know more about the law, and the arrogant sexists and sociopaths who prowl the workplace... if only i'd known when i was younger

That is discrimination! Illegal! The fuckers! I think you should file for charges, myself, the fucking wankshite.

Internet marketing consultancy in Covent Garden?

I give them six months in this environment.

What twatty marketing directors don't understand is that if they have these kind of attitudes, they will eventually show it to their clients.
Because no matter how much they want to think that everyone is cool and groovy like them, they will soon find out that a lot of people with the real power of budgets are - shockingly - over 35.

And if he feels comfortable talking like that to his staff, he WILL get drunk when out with clients and show his true colours.

Then it will be Goodnight Vienna.

Ha Ha Ha.

The most impressive people I have met in that industry don't give a toss about age. They are far too smart.

Well it's quite obvious why they don't want to work with your agency any more, isn't it? They're hoping to get away with it.

In fact this is actually good for you and I would still seriously consider sending the "legal" letter outlined (by Blu I think?) earlier in the thread.

OMG I can't believe anyone could be such a horrible, useless prat. Well done for staying calm and walking out of there. I would have gone to pieces.

only read the OP and a few of the replies but well done for staying calm and dignified and making it clear at the time you weren't impressed.
Quite apart from the fact that what he said and did is wrong anyway, 48 isn't old!
He sounds like the kind of man who will have a mid life crisis at 37 and wreck his marriage and career - be pleased you only had to encounter him - he has to be a prat for the rest of his life!

Name them and lets do something. This is awful and terrifying (I am 38 and due to various family reasons will probably have to temp when I do go back to work, London as well). I am not surprised you are feeling fragile now. He sounds absolutely disgusting and should be pulled up for it. If it was me I would be very tempted to make sure that this one did NOT go away - letters to individual, letters to more senior members of staff, letters to local paper and so on.

I used to be a Recruitment Consultant and I am ashamed to say we would have done anything to keep an account. Had this happened to one of my temps my remit would have been to calm her down, feed her a load of bull*hit, anything to keep the hourly rate rolling in.

Absolutely GrendelsMum would be happy to help engineer the downfall of his company. How dare they. I walked out of an interview too a few months ago. The guy intrerviewing me briguht in someone else completely unrelated to the rolwe in question and when the new guy appeared it dawned on me that we used to work together 10 years previously and we hated each other!! he then went on to humilitate me at every single turn and I was so mortified that I got up and walked out. I too burst into tears and was so strangely upset by it so I really know how you feel. You just feel so shaken. Let's do something about it!!

Absolutely GrendelsMum would be happy to help engineer the downfall of his company. How dare they. I walked out of an interview too a few months ago. The guy intrerviewing me briguht in someone else completely unrelated to the rolwe in question and when the new guy appeared it dawned on me that we used to work together 10 years previously and we hated each other!! he then went on to humilitate me at every single turn and I was so mortified that I got up and walked out. I too burst into teasr and was so irrationally upset by it so I c=really know how you feel. You just feel so shaken. Let's do something about it!!

I'm really angry on your behalf about this.

Did you say this man was the marketing director?

How about we do our best to push his company's website off the top Google ranking for their name and show an exposee of their hiring policies at the top of the search listings instead?

With the might of Mumsnet behind you, shouldn't be too difficult - and then of course there's a potential news story about women getting together in a recession to deal with ageist and sexist discrimination - sounds like a good story to me

Just indicate the name of the company here and we can get on the case...

I would write to him and tell him what you heard and just how it made you feel... I think he may feel very ashamed when faced with it in print and you will feel much better at having had the opportunity to vent your spleen.
However ashamed he may come to feel though... he is still a twat for saying those things in the first place.
I hope you get something worthy of your expertise ( that pays really, really well!)

Companies only get away with treating people like this because it is too much trouble to do anything about it. I am angry on your behalf but also worried that all women of a certain age will be in the same boat if we just accept it.

I would still write to the MD of the company like I said before, mainly for personal satisfaction, NOT because I would expect anything out of it.
Hope it all works out for you (and your mother's teeth <<slaps her own wrist, this is not funny, stop sniggering, PD>>

Report the tosser and just be glad you havent got to work for him- You had a good escape there.

The thing is that agencies talk to each other so this company/MD behaviour will be passed between the agencies and they will be the ones to lose as agencies won't waste their time looking for good quality staff if this is how they behave.

FWIW I went for an interview at a company, but the FD could only see that I was 30yrs old and getting married at the end of the year and was fixated on me having children. He asked my 4/5 times about having children but only when we were alone, so there were no witness.

But his attitude came back and bit him on the bum. I didn't get the job as he employed a 19yr old with 'more experience' as i had been this type of work for 14yrs.

Any way they ended up employing a 2nd person to help as the person they had employed as she couldn't do the job. Oh and a year later she had a child and came back to work pg.

I know all this because my BIL works for the company.

The thing is that agencies talk to each other so this company/MD behaviour will be passed between the agencies and they will be the ones to lose as agencies won't waste their time looking for good quality staff if this is how they behave.

FWIW I went for an interview at a company, but the FD could only see that I was 30yrs old and getting married at the end of the year and was fixated on me having children. He asked my 4/5 times about having children but only when we were alone, so there were no witness.

But his attitude came back and bit him on the bum. I didn't get the job as he employed a 19yr old with 'more experience' as i had been this type of work for 14yrs.

Any way they ended up employing a 2nd person to help as the person they had employed as she couldn't do the job. Oh and a year later she had a child and came back to work pg.

I know all this because my BIL works for the company.

MrsSF I am also appalled on your behalf. Am I the only one trying to google to find these guys?! I am desperate to take a look at them. Any chance of a cryptic clue?!

On a serious note, will the agency report back to you when (if) they hear back from the sexist knobber? How do you feel now, do you feel inclined to keep going with this?

Ooops!

Re my mother's teeth, not actually all of them, but she hasn't many left, and she's lost a tooth and a crown and 4 fillings in the last 3 weeks. She's 80, and is living on porridge because she can't eat properly until she goes back to the dentist

I spoke to the agency manager yesterday and was told the company had phoned to say they no longer wanted to work with them. They weren't happy with the calibre of the people sent for interview, and they complained that I had walked out before my interview!

I discovered that they had already sacked one temp who had started the job because she wasn't good enough.

Agency manager has asked to speak to the MD about my reasons for walking out and is waiting to hear back from him. She told HR it was because of a discussion I overheard about the temp interviews and about the agency, but didn't give them any more details at this stage.

The agency seem to feel that as the company have severed ties with them, there is no more they can do.

I will keep you updated.

Re my mother's teeth, not actually all of them, but she's lost a tooth and a crown and 4 fillings in the last 3 weeks. She's 80, and is living on porridge because she can't eat properly until she goes back to the dentist

I spoke to the agency manager yesterday and was told the company had phoned to say they no longer wanted to work with them. They weren't happy with the calibre of people sent for interview, and they complained that I had walked out before my interview!

I discovered that they have already sacked one temp who had started the job because she wasn't good enough.

Agency manager has asked to speak to the MD about my reasons for walking out and is waiting to hear back from him. She told HR it was because of a discussion I overheard about the temp interviews and about the agency, but didn't give them any more details at this stage.

The agency seem to feel that as the company have severed ties with them, there is no more they can do.

I will keep you updated.

YANBU at all, but of course you know that by now. I think you should let your husband do the online viral campaign against this company, frankly. The last time I temped (reception, advertising agencies) I was 25 and even then, quite often I would be the only non-blonde female at the company (I have red hair - probably that's a sacking offence to "Mr H", along with being over 30).
I think companies should be forced to do age, gender and race audits. But then I believe we should have quotas to ensure an equal number of female MPs as well. I believe I live in cloud cuckoo land.

MrsFlittersnoop, I was about to post a supportive message but I got diverted by your comment that all your mother's teeth fell out! Really?

This man must have some deep-seated insecurities; I'm guessing he still sleeps in his mother's bed with a night-light on. Please, please, please give me the firm's details so I can torment him place an order

Stairs kbnjgaju??!!! my response would have been
Oh dear I'm sorry Im not sure I'd be able to cope with the lack of brain cells in this company!

5foot5, at not being able to manage stairs at 42! Wonder if the poor girl is expecting to retire at 35?

I have a cousin who, in her early 40s found herself out of a job and had quite a hard time finding something else. In her case some of the age discrimination she encountered came from other women.

She was given a telephone interview for one job and the young woman conducting the interview asked her age. When she said 42 the response was a very doubtful "Oh dear. I am not sure you would be able to manage as we have have a lot of stairs here"

I think it depends on the circumstances tbh.

If it was an existing employer then totally agree that action should be taken. But this wasn't, this was a job I just didn't get. And at that point employers do have a choice as to whether they would even interview someone, and there are certainly employers who wouldn't, based on the fear of being sued if they didn't give you a job.

He sounds like a bastard. Sounds like he just wanted a bit of skirt to look at and flirt with.
Problem, London is full of t**ats like that.

Fucking disgraceful behaviour! You were absolutely right to walk out. Can't believe in this day and age, that women are treated like that!

Grrrr!!

Mrsflittersnoop, I can't believe it!! Just want to give you some support and say how well you dealt with this. Good luck my love xxx

WannaBe - you should have said something. You don't get classed as a trouble maker - you get classed as a hero standing up for your rights and the rights of others. My friend has had to take 2 separate companies to court - one for horrendous sexual dsicrimination and another for harrasment - she won both cases. She has managed to find employment easily and people don't view her as a trouble maker. The law proved she was right both times and it makes it easier and gives other people hope when you stand up for your rights.

What a fuckwit.

Can you claim for travelling expenses?

yanbu to walk out.

But I am going to go against the grain here and say that you should walk away, and feel happy that you had a lucky escape.

Firstly, it was an overheard conversation, and there is no way of proving who said what and even that they were talking about you, so you would be on shaky ground before you even started.

Secondly, you need to consider what you have to gain, or lose, by making a claim against this company. Rightly or wrongly, this sort of thing rarely has a positive outcome, even if it is settled, iyswim.

About ten years ago I was discriminated against by a large multinational company. Actually discriminated against to my face, and told that although I'd got the job on my experience/interview etc, they would not employ me because I have a disability. They had actually broken the law, and I probably would have had a strong case for discrimination. But I knew that if I took it to court there was a chance it might end up in the media. And if it did, then other employers might be put off even interviewing me because by taking action I would have earned myself a reputation as a trouble maker. I decided that in the grand scheme of things, I was better off not working for them, and it was better to walk away rather than to potentially ruin any future chances of me getting another job.

Ironically, I went to work for another company who, six months later, were taken over by the parent company of the ones who had discriminated.

Please do NOT take this to heart. That company will not last long if that is their attitude to staff. Any professional place that hires on age rather than skill is not set to last, or at least not set to succeed. Another company will not only be lucky to have you, but they will know it and you can be assured you are in a place of work that values skills and will be a supportive and thriving place to work.
Put those wankers behind you. The marketplace soon will.

O M G ... That is appalling.

I wouldn't take it further although I too would be livid at such appalling treatment but if the end result will be either to your detriment or you put work in for nothing, it simply isn't worth it as what will you gain from it even if you do manage to take things further? FWIW he has probably already been made aware that you overheard and has been ticked off about it (and rightly so) and hopefully feels ashamed.

Please don't let it shake your confidence though; an internet marketing consultancy in a trendy area of central London are probably the most up their own behinds image conscious aholes around and probably wouldn't hire anyone outside their 20s. I was speaking to someone only the other day who was complaining that at 26 she is considered too old for internet design jobs with the trendier companies and so given the time she spent at college, that actually gave her a shelf life of just a few years with that type of company!

I do think that you should write and inform the MD of the company of the situation - good luck.

That is awful treatment. I think you should take it further too.

I agree, this is awful treatment. I've done a lot of temping in the past as well as hire temps for finance roles. You should definitely make a complaint about this, get your lawyer to send the firm a letter, as to be honest the agency will be aware of this sort of discrimination and wont want to upset their client (times are very tough for agencies at the moment). If you have the time and energy, please do take it further, he shouldnt get away with treating people like that. Good luck today, hope your new role is at a nice company

I just wanted to add how angry I am on your behalf. You do not deserve to be treated that way and hope your new placement goes well - sounds like you have a lot on your plate at the moment.

Mrs F, I would be tempted to go through the motions of a claim for age discrimination in order to get an out of court settlement. Isn't it worth a few phone calls and letters for a juicy 'go away' payout?
If they have no employees over the age of 30 then they will have difficulty proving that they are not age-discriminatory. It's up to them to prove their innocence, not for you to prove their guilt.
Go on: have fun scaring them. <evil>

That's disgusting.
I would complain to the agency and say that you don't wish to be put in such a position again by immature wankers who wouldn't know a decent employee if they fell over them. (Obviously paraphrase a little!)
Be glad you aren't actually having to work for them and remember that you are worth SO MUCH MORE than them; and fingers crossed that their junvenile company goes down the pan due to their juvenile attitude.

cannot believe mr 29 year old. agree with everyone here, please don't let him get away with this. Well done for being so composed!

What an utter twat!!!!

And really well done to you for the way you dealt with it. I would have collapsed into a snivelling pile.

I am so for you. Please please please take this as far as you can and don't let him get away with this kind of crap.

Just a quick note before I trot of to my new temp assignment to say thanks again for your encouraging messages . I will follow this up when I get back from my training morning, I will speak to the agency manager and might ring my solicitor afterwards.

Temping is the pits. I hate hate hate it . It is exhausting being chucked in at the deep-end every Monday. We really are utterly disposable.

The sexism expressed by Mr Twatface didn't surprise me in the slightest. I've been working for 30 years and spent 15 years working in the financial sector in the city so have rubbed shoulders with enough Big Swinging Dicks to last a lifetime.

It was the engrained macho culture of the insurance broking sector which drove me out of my much-loved career when DS was born. My employers reneged on a promise to let me return part-time after ML, this was before the Flexible Working directive.

I've heard departmental managers ranting at their female staff after a senior broker announced she was pregnant, telling them he would sack anyone else who took maternity leave. I've seen a temp receptionist sacked on her first morning because the MD thought she was "too ugly" (she wasn't wearing any make-up).

So we'll see what happens. TBH, I am very stressed at the moment with more important matters such as moving to the other side of the country, writing an appeal to get DS into a decent school, coping with DS and exDP being utterly heartbroken about us moving, my mother's teeth all falling out, trying to organise builders to fix her roof, DP being owed £15K by one of his clients, his last year's tax return.....

Oh the joy's of being a member of the Sandwich Generation. Frankly my career prosepcts (or lack of) are at the bottom of my list of proprities ATM.

God, even the dinosaurs are getting younger.

What an uppity little shit.

i would seek legal advice - even if its only a tentative phonecall. i think you are right to register this complaint formally with the agency and get an acknowledgement in writing if you can.

then make a phonecall to a solicitor and see what kind of ground your on.

What would you do if your daughter told you this had happened to her? Would you advise that she took things further in order to gain satisfaction. I think I would...

You don't need to name and shame, but please escalate this matter, you have alternative work now, what do you have to lose?

These idiots will continue until they are checked. You are in a position to check them. Do it. Just a formal letter to the company should make them think.

Best wishes to you in your new job.

I'm sure it won't ever happen again.

But it might be worth thinking through the situation and deciding what you would do if it did, which would enable you to take the upper hand and control the situation at the time.

For example, you might have wanted to walk in (super calm cool and collected obviously) and say that you took notes on the conversation that you couldn't help but hear. Pull out sheet of paper with key points on (age, etc) and ask them to sign it along with you that that accurately represented why they did not want to interview, so that you can pass the feedback on to the temp agency so they can add it to their requirements file for the client. And as you waltz out of the door, you get to add 'and for me to talk to the age discrimination lawyers obviously and did I mention compensation for time and expense coming to the interview when you obviously did not specify your requirements clearly'.

Sorry, bit late for me to think in a perfectly worded way but you get the gist!

Horrible. And illegal now. I would also contact the Equality and Human Rights Commission for a advice on the legal position regarding age discrimination. Their website is quite helpful too.

I have no idea re the legal position of all of this but personally I would need to complain, not necessarily sue, mainly for personal satisfaction. I suppose it all depends what would satisfy you. As blu stated (far, far) above for a tribunal you'd need witnesses, but for an angry, well written, intelligent complaint, you don't .

Please, please, may we help draft it???

I am not sure I would be comfortable involving the agency even if legally they are obliged to educate the client if you are happy with their service otherwise and want to stay with them.

I am going to follow this thread with interest.

Of course you don't want the agency to lose business/not give you work but equally they need to know the full situation so they can make a judgement call on it and I think it would need to be a senior manager to devise the best course of action.

If this were my client I would go down and see them, talk through the situation and potential consequences and offer to do a workshop for recruiting managers to ensure they don't leave themselves open to this sort of thing in future and that they recruit within the law.

It would not cloud my judgement of the candidate at all. In fact, I would be furious on their behalf! The company needs to know they can't do this, either by the OP complaining directly to them or entrusting the agency to ensure they understand the severity of the behaviour.

Glad you are taking it further.

YANBU!!!!!!!!

I'm just

An HR Manager, no matter what age, should understand the basic ethics of HR include recruiting and developing staff by ensuring no candidate for recruitment or for promotion is discriminated against or receives less opportunity for advancement or less favourable treatment on the grounds of age, sex, ethnic origin and so on.

It is also good business sense.

Good HR Managers and interviewers also understand the effort candidates go to prepare at interview, from travelling costs, how it is difficult going to interviews, and how interview feedback can impact on self esteem.

Employment Agencies also have a duty, even in tough economic times not to discriminate, so it will interesting how your agency handles this.

As others have noted a private letter calmly drafted letter to the MD of the company should be strongly considered. You could ask for copies of their recruitment and selection policy.

You have the right not to be victimised for making a complaint so it should not impact future job chances.

Either way - stay strong with your other interviews and I wish you the very best of luck.

i see ewe...

awkward situation then because you don't want your agency to lose business or you to lose work with them.

I would not make a big fuss with the agency, probably just mention what has happened. You need them to keep the work coming.

I really think you should write. I want that bloke to be sweating about the possibility of you bringing an age discrimination case against the company, even if you have no intention of following it through. You owe it not only to yourself but to all us older women who are trying to find jobs in a difficult market. And I want that twunt to be having a few sleepless nights over his appalling behaviour.

I have visions of mumsnetter googling all the itnernet marketing companies now trying find out who it is.

What happened to you was truly awful. I'm glad you feel able to write a letter and you handled it better than I would have, I'd probably have burst into tears ont eh spot

Mr H probably wants some air head bimbo he can dip his dick in to.

Complain and bloody loudly too.

Can you imagine if he said I don't want her cause she is black, Muslim, only has one arm, is gay etc etc man is a fuckwit

warthog - it is the agencies responsibility to either 1) educate the client on current legislation or 2) not work with them again.

I would not want to work with a client like this, it would put my reputation and credibility at stake.

The big complaint should go to the CEO of the client though, it would be taken very seriously - and rightly so!

Just because the recruitment market is dire at the moment doesn't mean that employers get to break the law and all good practice codes of conduct. It is a disgrace the way they have behaved and the should be held accountable IMO, even if that is only means apologising profusely to the OP and ensuring it will be dealt with internally.

How upsetting.

How tempting it would be to release the Marketing Manager and HR Managers emails - just imagine an entire army of mumsnetters running a successful viral marketing campaign against the company.... but seriously MrsFlittersnoop you did the right thing by leaving.

If you had complained after an interview had taken place, then they might have tried to wrangle it with how your interview responses were not suitable for the role.

I would write to the MD - this is age discrimination and could be linked to sex discrimination, it just might help someone else from having to encounter the same scenario.

They can try deny and lie, but it will take some energy on their part and perhaps costly consultation with a lawyer as to how they try avoid a potentially costly and reputation damaging age discrimination claim.

Best of luck with finding a good employer out there! - you can do better and you will!

sorry - but i'm not sure what the agency has to do with it. why involve them?

I want to add as well because I dont think it has specifically been stated yet -

firstly no one say because I am American I am crying sue because I am not like that! But the fact is part of your descrimination claim will include loss of potential wages.

Clearly you are looking for work otherwise you wouldnt have been there. And this horrible man descriminated and made you feel so bad you left in tears. Had you been 10 years younger you might have had that job and the income it provided. That is nothing to take lightly. I know I for one need money and losing out on a job because of your age is totally shit and bonkers.

Well, thank you everyone! I'm sitting here feeling blown away by all your kind words.

I WILL be taking things further with the agency on Monday. The office manager and the temp controller were out of the office on Friday.

Problem is, another member of staff rang me late Friday afternoon and offered me another temp role starting tomorrow (without an interview ). The job is part-time and v. dull, but it is local, and TBH will suit me very well. I really don't want to blow out this agency, I've been looking for a permanent full time job for ages, and they are the only people who've consistently offered me any work. We are hoping to move out of London shortly, and I REALLY need a good reference from them because I will need to look for a job as soon as we move.

I'm going to wait and speak to the manager before I do anything else. I have a close relationship with the temp controller, we've had many discussions about how screwed up the recuitment industry is ATM, and I know they have laid off four staff in the last 6 months . I'm very aware that they are in a difficult situation.

DH has been threatening all sorts of tecchie -type revenge such as hacking into the website, viral online campaigns etc. He has a very vengeful side to his personality. Bless - he's very loyal .

I know this sounds daft, but I felt SO SO sorry for the HR manager. She was even younger than Mr Twat-face, (mid 20's) and obviously had no idea how to deal with the situation. She looked like a rabbit frozen in the headlights and was scarlet with embarrassment. If it hadn't been for her I'd have kicked up far more of a fuss and insisted on phoning the agency in front of her etc.

DH says I'm far to nesh for my own good .

Totally agree with Blus pst. Don't leave it, they shouldnt get away with disgusting behavior like this.

And keep looking for a job. Loads of employers know that age = experience and often better interpersonal skills.

Blu's wording brilliant. The threat of an age discrimination
case should land mr 29 year old in hot water. Enjoy it.

Am completely, utterly appalled on your behalf.

Whatever you do you absolutely must, must, must write a letter to the MD of the company and their head of PR explaining what you overheard and inviting them to consider the word of mouth effect this kind of behaviour will be having on clients and recruitment.

Explain that although you are probably the first person to complain about this to their faces, you will undoubtedly not be the first person (employee or client) to have noticed attitudes within the company.

I can understand your not wanting to take legal action, given that it was all their word against yours. But at the very least I would want Mr H to get an internal bollocking and (hopefully) a grovelling letter by return.

Bastard bastard bastard.

Name name name name !!!!

Can we have a link to his website purleeeeezzze.

Imagine his horror at his email being inundated with messages from fucking old crones like us.

Seriously though - you DID hear what he said so why not write to the CEO?

Blu is being very sensible (I am not).

Great advice from Blu and Ewe.

I am really on your behalf.

OMG how awful that you had to experience that What a complete bastard - he clearly has a tiny dick and 0 personality so attempts to make himself feel better by putting down others. You are 10x the person he is. <<pours wine>>

Please complain, please do. It is not about getting the idiot man into trouble but about showing respect for yourself.

A few years ago I had a very direct nasty comment about my race and country. It touched certain insecurities and left me feeling very insecure. It took me years to climb out of that hole.

A few months later, some one attacked me in the street, I punched the guy in the face. Curiously enough, I continue to feel safe in the street despite the incident.

If you leave it, it will haunt you for a time. Complain to the company, demand an apology. You owe it to yourself, to keep your well deserved confidence.

I am soooo impressed how calm you remained.

I think a formal complaint in writing to J's immediate boss is entirely in order.

YAN at all BU.

Excellent advice Blu

i'm with blu on this one.

Good advice Blu

I'll bet this Mr H is a sexual predator in work looking for a bit of skirt to brighten his office. Don't worry that you don't fit his narrow and sexist criteria.

I agree that the onus will be on the company to refute your complaint. I imagine that every woman there would be glad to have this jerk called to account for his behaviour at work. I am hoping that his comments about you have already been reflected back to him as presenting a grave danger to the good name of their company.

Personally, I would be asking the MD for a formal letter of apology and information about the action the company is going to take, to prevent further discrimination in their recruitment. If I had no satisfaction from this, I would seriously think about escalating the complaint legally.

You had every right to a fair interview. This man's actions were illegal.

that is just terrible OP...what a nasty twunt...

but you did the right thing, and wow, how dignified you did it...I would have welled up there and than...

but defintiely follow this up...it is totally unacceptable....any discrimination is unacceptable...

As I understand it, 3 people were party t this conversation - getting all 3 to wear under oath at a tribula that it hadn't happened would be hard fo the co, I think.

I would write a calm formal letter headed 'without prejudice' and simply say that they will have noticed that though you were invited for interview on such and such a date, they will be aware that you did not stay for the interview. that despite having been invited for interview because you met the criteria of the JD, you were nevertheless made aware via an overhard conversation that the company clearly operates age discrimination. (quote the whole conversation as an appendix, with descriptions of those involved.
Say that obviously you are not now interested in their job, but would be interested to hear their response to your experience in their offices.

I wouldn't copy it to the agnency - unfortunately i suspct that many agencies may well act pragmatically as a sort of filtering system to meet clients requests, however discriminatory, and the agnecy may well mark you as difficult. However, i would imagine that even calow bastards like your man here would quail at complaining to the agency about you writing!

YANBU

I really hope you'll take this further. He deserves to be shown up as the total dick that he is.

MrsF, that is appalling! I recruit in this sector and certain agencies are known for only employing young attractive women but it is totally unacceptable to discriminate like this.

I would be writing a letter to the MD of the company and the recruitment consultancy/search firm (hope it isn't the one I work for!). I think you would have a case for age discrimination as it is such new legislation there are very few test cases.

We have had people to attempt to instigate legal proceedings due to the word bubbly in an advert (it is indeed against legislation requirements) so I can't think why you wouldn't be able to for blatant discrimination. The onus is on the employer to prove that they don't discriminate, not you that they do.

I understand if you don't want to do that however but please do complain. Really, really don't feel it is a reflection on you, I can think of a couple of companies where this type of behaviour is the norm and to be honest, they miss out on the best candidates ultimately.

Ah, so he thought "temp" means "files nails and looks pretty but gormless"? Be glad you¡re not going to work there, you'd have spent all your time fighting off his smutty remarks. What a pillock.

He has clearly not gone beyond the times in which temps were fill-in staff and not usually very good, to times where the interim staff you get can actually do the job properly.

for you and for god's sake take no notice! Did you get a look at him? Bet he's eaten all the pies.

And have you told your agency?

Seriously, I think you should name them. If they're a web marketing company they'll be googling themselves all bloody day long.

Or take a look at their client list, then email a link to this thread to their clients.

I definitely think you need to take this further.

I don't hold much hope of your agency doing anything but I would make a call to the local paper.

Blud Dee Hell

I doubt the agency will do anything (as they'll be keen to stay on side with the company to get their business, no matter what they say to you).

I would also write to the CEO of the company and complain. Tell him exactly what happened and how upset you were. Age discrimination is no laughing matter and despite you not being able to see the people talking, I guarantee you could identify their voices if you had to. I'm not saying you should sue but I would give them a fright at least.

lovelytinofspam LOL you are indeed very right.

No advice but the bloke is a nobbish fuckwit of the highest order, if it helps I can guarantee that his wife/girlfriend secretly abhors him and his children only love him for his money. He will spend his days unloved and lonely. I guarantee it

Please don't be too upset.

Complain to the agency - tell them what happened. Tell them you overheard this conversation. Perhaps they will write a letter to them informing them about age discrimination.

Try not to let this affect your self esteem. Why SHOULD you feel bad about being old enough to be his mother anyway? The guy is obviously a dick who wants staff that are all very young. This is no reflection on you or you skills whatsoever. This is a knob of a man who thinks he can decide the age of his staff. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with this. Sometimes revenge IS the best medicine!

Dont worry Tryharder, I read what you said as that if the man had used race as his discriminating reason it would be perceived in a more extreme way.

Exactly, why do we go to school if we're going to be hired on the basis of how fuckable we are out of ten.

How would his mother feel if someone treated her like that.

Plead op write to the company md and hr and demand and apology at least and ask them to put him on some courses to update this jerks sadly lacking education

I would be writing to Mr H himself and telling him that he is lucky he didnt have a age discrimation suit against him. Also remind him that yes you may also be age enough to be his mother as he put it but you also have many years of work and life experience that fortunately you will now not be sharing with his company.

Just thought, I have said "If the OP had been black" - sorry I have assumed the OP is white which she may well not be. Hope noone offended, sorry all.

I wouldn't leave it Ilovemydog.

Write to the Evening Standard/Metro, name and shame, complain to the MD, see a solicitor/CAB... whatever, but DO SOMETHING otherwise this prick will consider himself forever justified in selecting employers presumably on the basis of whether or not he'd shag them.

What gives people the right to make such a base judgement on someone's age or looks or indeed anything else other than their ability to do the job?

If the OP had been black and this person had refused to interview her on that basis, we would all be telling her to go the police! What's the difference, here really? Age discrimation is illegal isn't it?

omg. write a stinking letter of complaint to anybody who will listen. You're not doing it just for yourself, you'll be doing it for all of us. By the time I re-enter the work place i'll be 41, so please, do it for me too.

Well, I ran the scenario passed a lawyer friend of DH's at the wedding yesterday. He seemed to think there was no way I could prove anything because the conversation was overheard so I couldn't identify who was talking, or prove that I was the subject of the discussion. No witnesses.

I am so furious on your behalf. That is really horrible. He is scum of the earth to behave like that.

You really must write to the most senior member of staff there and/or name and shame in the press. That is just wrong and there needs to be a penalty for it. I am so gutted for you but dont take it as any reflection on yourself.

He is the Marketing Director of an internet marketing consultancy, yet is such a dumbass that he can't work out his actions can be discussed all over the internet within minutes?

With him in charge I would imagine that the company will no longer exist this time next year.

What a cock!

Agencies are usually well aware when a dolly-bird is required. They will tell me that I'm overqualified for the role or that I won't find it "challenging" enough and will get bored. These are the usual euphemisms for "you're too fucking geriatric".

I also avoid jobs requiring a "bubbly personality" for the same reasons!

I'd write to both the agency and the company.

Why would you be risking legal action for naming and shaming? If it happened as you say (in front of witnesses), they can't sue you for libel or anything.

I would be naming and shaming in front of a journalist at my local newspaper too.

What an utter prick. I feel really angry on your behalf that you had to go through that. Being women we seem to look first at ourselves to see if any criticism we receive is deserved. This was not. You are clearly a capable woman with valuable skills. Don't let that misogynistic wanker let you feel like this. He is the one who clearly has to surround himself with young women in order to feel good about himself. Their loss. As to getting them back... you may well have a discrimination claim. Look into it, you have 3 months to file a claim with the Employment Tribunal, and you shouldn't need a lawyer. Hitting them in the pocket/giving them bad publicity is probably the only that works. Doesn't matter if its your word against his; at the end of the day even if your claim didnt succeed they would still know you didn't take it lying down.

Good luck!

I'd leave it. But realize that this man has the charm of rhino, and no doubt he will be rude, arrogant again, but to the wrong person and will either get a lawsuit, or punched in the face.

Lucky escape though. You don't want to work for such a wanker...

YANBU, I cant believe you managed to keep so calm, I think I would have burst into tears (but im a bit wet really!)

He sounds like a real KnobJockey and it sounds like you had a lucky escape!

That is outrageous. Walking out was the right thing. Staying for the interview would have been a farce, and waiting for an explanation/apology would have been a waste of time (nothing they said could have been acceptable).

I would complain with great force to the agency. It seems they sent you to an interview where the requirement was to be a dolly bird, instead of having any actual workplace ability.

It sounds as if you have a great deal to offer, and I'm sure you will find a place that values your skills.

Shame though that companies/managers with those terrible and dated attitudes are still out there.

Tempted as I am to name and shame, I'd be risking legal action.

They are an internet marketing consultancy in Covent Garden is all I'm prepared to say. They are a very "young" company, and checking out their website it's quite apparent that there have virtually no employees over 35. "Mr H" (not his real initial) is the Marketing Director apparently. He is 29 , so yes, I AM old enough to be his mum .

This wasn't a client facing role BTW. It was a mostly a research, and client support service via phone and email which I am extremely well qualified to do.

yanbu. how disgusting. in the office where I work (NHS) there are ladies in their sixties and one in her seventies(!) doing a great job. not all HR types are ageist gits. if you went to any expense to travel to interview, I would be looking to agency to reimburse you. and agree with writing to the company.

So angry on your behalf. Please don't let it affect your self-confidence. It is nothing to do with you -- it is everything to do with that man being an evil viscious little toad. Great that you spoke to the agency about it.

Ooh, but you were so dignified!

Bravo - many wouldn't have had your composure.

You should definitely inform the agency. I would write a letter to the head of the company reminding them of ageism laws and asking for a letter of apology from the twunt.

Unbelievable.
What a vile fucker he sounds.

I would write to the MD of the company and complain. Your agency won't make too much fuss as they need the business.

Poor you - what a shitty thing to happen.

Make a formal complaint and perhaps let your local paper know.....

Agree name and shame!!!!

Complain. What ignorant arseholes they are.

You should name the company here, so we can avoid using them.

Vile - find out the name of the MD of the company and write a letter - copy in theri HR dept too.

Complain.

on your behalf. How horrible and undermining.

Name ans shame so the whole of MN can boycott his crappy company.

I know this is age discrimination.

I phoned the agency while I was snivelling into my G&T . They were lovely and very apologetic and said they would take the matter up with the HR department immediately. Sadly, although they were very indignant on my behalf, they didn't seem particularly surprised.

The agency advised me not to put my DOB, dates of exams passed, or more than 10-15 years work experience on my CV.

But there really isn't anything I can do. It was an overheard conversation, I didn't actually see either of the people talking and I can't prove anything. It would be my word against theirs.

I know its crap, some people do think that women over 30 are finished, I would make a formal complaint and I would see if you have any rights to a claim for discrimination.

But most importantly I wouldnt worry about a jumped up prick who thinks he's better than you, he's a prick and everyone who knows him will know it, the best and the biggest laugh is he has no clue, so is oblivious to all the piss that will be extracted from him on a daily basis.

head high, f*ck him, dont waste any tears.

Please name and shame the fuckers.

I thought age discrimination was illegal? Perhaps find out J's immediate boss and put in a formal complaint.

What a cunt.

What a complete are. Pity every woman who works there and has dealings with him
I would def. inform the agency and then I would inform the company of this mans behaviour. This is appalling!
Name and shame

Oh no be glad you walked out

there's a similar employer I know of, my Mum ahdd the misfortune to wrk there and edspite her very excellent skills in her field she was so badly humilaiated (used to leave in tears- as the senior said 'we all did that for the first few years but then you break') that she never tried fro another job after she walked out

I was palced there by job centre a few eyatrs after, luckily I got out early.... as I had severe back problems (was returning to work after three months unabe to walk) and he ahd me climbing things all the time and would swear at you if you didnt do it).

Anyway the upshot is- from having worked somewhere where they treat people like that, it's only wiorth it if it's work or starve


YANBU. YABVVR

yes def name and shame, it's amazing how cocky some people can be!!!

oh yanbu

What a fucking horrible thing to happen

Nobody is laughing at you behind your back, I bet you look fine - these people are arseholes, and if I were you I would be thinking very carefully about how I could wreak my revenge

I think you should name and shame.

Oh my good lord. How appalling. Have you made a formal complaint to the agency yet?
I am 45 and can imagine exactly how I would have felt in that situation, humiliated in the extreme. I would fight back if I were you - surely that's what age discrimination legislation is for?

YANBU

He sounds like a complete and utter cockstain.

Did you get the interview through an agency? If so I would tell them what happened.

Sorry this is so long. I went for an interview for a long-term temp.job last week.

I turned up at reception about 10 minutes early and explained I had a interview at 11.45 with J. the HR manager. While I was talking to the receptionist, a bloke who was walking past the desk stopped and stared at me. I smiled and said hello, but he blanked me and walked into the lift. I was a bit taken aback, but thought nothing more of it.

I was then met by a young girl who introduced herself as J's PA, who took me upstairs me to an empty office in the HR department, told me that J was still in a meeting and asked me to wait.

She left the door slightly ajar on her way out, and while I was waiting I heard a man and a woman talking as they walked down the corridor. The convo went as follows:

"J, are you interviewing temps this morning?"
"Yes, I'm due to see another at 11.45."
"Well don't bother. I've just seen the latest one in reception. Fucking hell, what a joke! I don't know what that agency is thinking of. Do you have any idea how old she is? She looks old enough to be my mother." (I am 48).
"Well, Mr H, the woman's come all this way, I really can't just tell her to......."
"Look just sort it will you? Tell her job's been filled or something. And have a word with that bloody agency will you?"

I heard him walk off, and the woman went into the office next door. I heard her say, "What? she's here already ? Where is she?

A minute later she came into the office where I was sitting. She looked really appalled. It must have been perfectly obvious I'd heard every word, because the door was open. I stood up and said "I don't think I want to waste your time or mine" and walked out. She made no attempt to speak to me or call me back.

My legs were so wobbly I don't know how I made it to the lift and I had to fight really hard not to burst into tears before I'd left the building. I was so shaken up I got myself a large G&T in a bar in Covent Garden and sat outside and smoked about 50 fags before I felt able to face the tube home.

I've been temping with this agency for a while. They've always had great feedback for me from previous employers and usually send me for more "senior" roles. I am very well presented at work. I wear expensive and fashionable office-smart clothes, have no grey hairs or wrinkles. People usually assume I'm younger than my 42 year old DH.

AIBU to feel utterly humiliated? I know I should be tougher and thank my lucky stars I didn't end up working there, but my self-esteem has just crashed to rock bottom. We went to a wedding yesterday and I was in tears before we left thinking that DH's mates would be laughing at me behind his back. (They weren't of course, and I had a lovely time.) But I'm worried that I'm feeling so fragile.