My 16yo DS and his girlfriend (and her mum)

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I'm going to write this in point form, I just want to get some other unbiased opinions on my son and his gf of 5 months.
Our point of view is that the relationship is not a healthy one.
We understand that at this age teens start to move away from the family unit but we feel this is above the realms of 'normal'

*she gets mad at him if she doesn't have his full attention.
*she gets mad at him if he hangs out with his mates, so he hasn't hung out with them for 3+ months.
*last time he did she dumped him.
*she cries if he's not at school
*she gets mad at him for playing his Xbox (and not answering her call on the first ring)
*he got a new Xbox for Xmas and she's already making noises about him playing it too much, also about his sport that he loves playing is starting up again soon and she's getting sad about that.
*he spends every single day with her, anywhere from 6-14hours
*it's like he feels guilty if he spends time with us so has to make it up to her
*he can't spend a full day with us as a family, not even Xmas day
*we invite her to our house and to things we're going to but she refuses
*at one point he didn't eat dinner with us for over two weeks as he was with her
*they send literal pages of gushing to each other every single day about how much they love each other and the kids they're going to have 😳
*her mum seems to encourage it (the intensity) which doesn't help
*the Mum, who is 50yo, has texted him (in reply to his messages) "thank you my beautiful James Arthur, you're so adorable" along with a kissy face emoji (not his real name obviously)

We're happy for him to spend time with her and don't stop him much, but it's getting to be too much. We miss him and sometimes want to see him too.
He seems to know it's not right but 'loves her', and I remember young love, we're only in our 30's, so we're happy to be flexible but it still feels very unhealthy to us.
We also don't want to alienate him.

So AIBU and how to we put some boundaries in place, because he clearly doesn't know how to!

Definitely have a calm conversation with him about boundaries before this goes any further.

I wonder whether any domestic abuse charities have resources that would help? You almost need a “am I in a controlling relationship?” questionnaire.

Yanbu it sounds extremely unhealthy and she sounds too controlling and intense. Maybe sit down and have a very honest talk about healthy boundaries and what is normal. He needs to see that she isn't. Explain that love is not meant to be like this.

I remember a similar sounding post a few months back however I think there were concerns the gf might be pregnant, I assume this is your first post on the subject?
I'm not sure what to suggest, it's not a position I've been in. Maybe try controlling what happens at home, I know he's almost an adult but could you restrict his phone use at certain times of the day? Have a conversation about if he actually enjoys this level of contact and talks to him about all kinds of abusive and controlling relationships so he can spot the signs in this and any future relationships.
Also, I'd tell him that you expect him to be at yours for dinner during the week but if free to go to his gf at the weekend if you're happy with that. Maybe make it a regular thing that she it welcome to dinner on a Friday evening then he can go to hers sat/sun, she may be more inclined to come to your if the time is limited at hers.
You can't control the gf but you have some control over your son. The gf is clearly insecure or needy and it's bordering on controlling, particularly in regards to his friends and spare time. If you out measures in place and stick to them but don't see any improvement over the next month I'd consider having a word with the gf mum but you might not get anywhere by the sounds of it if she's messaging inappropriate things too.

Some of it sounds normal, some of it sounds worrying, and the bit about the mother is just plain weird .
No advice except to say hang in there for your son ......I'd be worried that going in to harshly would drive him further towards her .

I don't think you can put boundaries on him. Setting the boundaries needs to come from him.

You need to talk to him about healthy relationships, controlling isn't good. What happens when people neglect their circle of friends. Friendship groups to not want to know. Nobody likes being dropped and forgotten about.

If she falls out with him for seeing his pals then he needs to see that's up to her and he's better off without her controlling behaviour.
When does she see her friends?

Ok, this must be so hard for you and given the information you have provided I definitely think you are right to be worried. The isolation from friends, loss of sporting hobbies, and not participating in family life all are signs of an abusive relationship. I do work with Domestic Abuse victims but not normally this age or sex so I think it might be worth googling your local areas domestic abuse charity and speaking to them. They will be able to support you as a family support your son even if he will not engage.Don't do anything rash or ban him from seeing her because this will feed into "his family being unreasonable monsters". I definitely would act on your fears though, I once supported a 16 year old girl and her family. She was in an abusive relationship but could not see it, myself and her family tried everything including using Draconian police powers which meant for 28 days she or the perpetrator would be arrested if they saw each other. This didn't work but what did was she got a job doing what she loved and it was harder for perpetrator to see her as much and his grip on her loosened as her confidence grew.

I am a mum to two DS 19 & 17, so I can understand your concern

Teenage relationships can often be very intense. But what can you do? Advise him? I doubt very much that he will listen, being young & in love did you listen to your mum, I know I didn’t. He needs to learn for himself what a healthy relationship is. It’s the hardest lesson to learn.

My advice would be to step back, don’t comment on it.

Usually these types of relationships fizzle out quickly, so be there ready to pick up the pieces.

I think he needs protecting, but it's a fine line. It would be good to get him connected to his mates again.

Either your son is dating my son’s ex, or there is more than one of them. I remember phoning gf’s mum to say my son would not be able to go round as he’d not done his homework ( gf was in hysterics) and she accused me of trying to keep them apart! She has also invited him on holiday within weeks of them meeting and offered to take him school uniform shopping so he wouldn’t miss any time with her daughter. I was never negative to my son about them as it can push them away, but when he started getting frustrated I gave so much sympathy even though I was cheering inside. This was definitely the best way. Teen relationships do tend to be very intense and I think it’s often about learning rather than abuse. Either way, being a support rather than challenging might be the way forward

This website is aimed at providing domestic abuse advice to young people. loverespect.co.uk/questions/ it might be worth you having a look at it. I would also speak to his schools pàstoral support about your concerns and also children's social care. Most social care units have a thing called MASH which is multi agency support hub where they triage all requests for help. You will probably get early help support where a support worker not a social worker will produce a plan for your family. You will get some help to help him but emphasise the coercive control. So mention the crying, the isolation and list all the things he is being forced to give up.
Finally, I would be concerned about them trying for a baby. It might be worth buying a big box of condoms and depending on your relationship making them available to him and discussing why it is important to use whenever/if he chooses to have sex.

Make sure he understands that the only chance he has to have any say in whether he has a child is when he puts a condom on. He needs to understand that once she is pregnant, he has 0 control over whether he becomes a father, and 50% responsibility for the child.

Otherwise, unfortunately he has to be the one to realise he is being controlled and abused. You can subtly and tactfully help him to make that discovery, perhaps.

Encourage him to dump her and free himself from a controlling relationship. Imagine thoughts if the demands were on the other foot.

It does sound very concerning, but if you go in all guns blazing he will immediately become defensive, and you'll push him towards her.

Have a gentle chat about boundaries, you don't know that he just doesn't know how to get out of this, you need lots of clear and open communication with him, let him know that he doesn't need to do anything he doesn't want to do, and that he is allowed to see his friends/play his Xbox/play his sport, and that a girlfriend should enhance his life and not take over it. At 16 you are able as his mum to pull rank a little and insist on some family time, you could say going forward you will all sit and watch a movie together or have dinner together once a week with no phones, he'll at least get some time per week away from her and be able to blame you in effect.

In my experience there’s nothing you can do about it, and he’ll be living at her house soon.
When he is in a receptive mood, point out what’s going on, but the more you cling on to him the more she will pull him away.
I’ve been where you are now. Her family sucked my son in and we hardly saw him for 3 years.
He finally saw the light and escaped eventually.

I don't think you can put boundaries on his relationship with her, but as a parent you can put boundaries on him (that will have an indirect effect). Insist that he eats dinner at home at least three or four times a week. Don't let him give up his sport. That kind of thing.

Yanbu. It’s intense, too much, controlling and somewhat hysterical. However...there is nothing you can do but support him in figuring all that out for himself, which he will.
If you speak out directly against her unbidden it will only make him feel defensive and therefore strengthen his resolve to stay in her thrall. Instead, back him up when he’s irritated or frustrated by her...offer your insight calmly and support him.

It’s hard at the moment but it won’t last.

I remember being 16 and I don’t think you can openly criticise this girl or the relationship otherwise you could push them closer together. It’s hard with lockdown. In normal times, you could do things like take him and a couple of friends to Alton towers for the day or some such.

I also think being a sounding board when he voices frustration and having some family time scheduled every week would be good. Maybe encourage him to have some boys time with his friends if there is anything they can do.

I also think you should decide upon family boundaries. Ideally you would do things as a family even if your ds hates it and insist on mobile free time - going for a walk on better days, days out when the weather improves etc. Idk if he’d go for that or just flat refuse. I’m just thinking that when your ds panics, maybe this is a way in - perhaps some open, non critical questions.

As for how the mum treats your ds, this isn’t normal. What I have found with people like this is that underneath they are often horrible, poisonous people. My take would be to view her as the enemy.

I would be very concerned about that OP. It's normal to fall head over heals at 15 and neglect your friends and family a bit but she sounds controlling.

Just wanted to add a couple more details.
We're not in the UK, we're in Aus, so there are no lockdowns in our area and the kids are on summer holidays until the end of January which means when we're at work, they have the whole day to themselves.

We've insisted on dinners at home except for Fri/Sat and she is always welcome here and used to come here often in the beginning but that suddenly stopped.

We've spoke about boundaries and encouraged him to see his friends etc but he refuses because he's admitted that he's scared she will dump him like last time.
I don't believe they're seriously planning children but speaking of the future, but I have always been very open with my DS and speak of consent, protection etc so he does have a stash of condoms already.
He also plays his Xbox when she's at work or late at night when she's asleep so she doesn't know.

He's not always very open with us, so when he is I listen and take the opportunity to speak to him about it but if he's not in the mood he tells me I'm just being negative (even if he was agreeing with me the day before)

I admit I sometimes can't help myself and mention it more than I should or get frustrated at the whole situation. I'm aware this is not a good way to handle things and know I really need to stop!

Thanks for the advice so far. Good to know it's not just me thinking it's not quite normal.

Has anyone spoken to his mates about this? They may well have more influence on him than you.

The mother is running this show and she’s just waiting for the baby. When it comes she will still be running the show..........and his life.

She sounds a right nutter.

This from @Purrbox:
Make sure he understands that the only chance he has to have any say in whether he has a child is when he puts a condom on. He needs to understand that once she is pregnant, he has 0 control over whether he becomes a father, and 50% responsibility for the child.

Tbh I think the posts on here about coercive control and social services are a bit over the top.

I'm not saying this relationship is healthy at all, but these are relatively young teens, and as such the level of emotion involved will be high and the intensity enormous. As a parent of a teen (except when there is a serious health and safety issue) you are moving from direct management to life consultant and you need to tread carefully for fear of creating a "forbidden attraction" type scenario. It's very tedious that his mother seems to be encouraging this intensity or you could have had a private sensible chat with her about it.

How are his school grades btw? Is his academic work suffering?

In your shoes I would insist he eats and sleeps at home with you at least once or twice a week and pays proper attention to his studies. And although it's difficult currently with C-19, I would be inventing an errand you have to run in the car to collect heavy furniture which involves a couple of trips spread out over several weekends and where you need his help. (And yes I would buy furniture or car parts on eBay I didn't need if it necessary!)

During these expeditions I wouldn't refer to his girlfriend directly but I would talk about other stuff going on in his life (the music he likes,the sport he plays), and then I would talk about yourself and the healthy and non-healthy relationships you have had over the years. Explain the difference. How true friends enhance your life etc. Don't refer directly to his girlfriend.

Then ask him what he wants out of life, for his future, talk about your travel and university/college/work experiences you had after school. Talk to him about driving lessons ... . Throw in some fast food on the way back and make the trip fun , not argumentative. Do not let it get heated, keep it light.

End the trip(s) by emphasizing how much you have enjoyed his company, and how much you love him and think he is a great lad etc etc, and that you have trust in him to make good life decisions, but should he ever find that's he's in too deep with "anything" he can always use you as an excuse to extricate himself, and you are available to talk at any time.

And at some point (not on fun driving trip) have another talk with him (maybe his father could do this?) about sex and contraception and what pp said about having no control over the outcome of a potential pregnancy. (Call me old-fashioned but this situation is exactly why I don't encourage sex in this age group, not for prudish reasons, but because it's sometimes gets them in far too deep.)

Make home a fun place to be. If your ds comes back home and there are continual arguments about his relationship, you are giving him more reasons to return to his gf's house. Facilitate his sport, drive him there if you have to, (again not easy during Covid-19) but provide opportunities for him to hang out with his mates at home. Do interesting things together: let him have a go driving the car/cook the food he likes/watch the films he likes. Emphasize how much you love him and think he is great (even when you are inwardly combusting) and always be available to talk and mostly to listen (often late at night when you are just about to go to sleep yourself).

Good luck

X post with yours op. It's great that you are not under lockdown where you are! Invite his mates around immediately!

Some of this advice I would love to implement but he makes it quite hard.
For example, we would like to go to the beach tomorrow and have a family day, if we tell him now he will refuse. He will tell us he has plans with her that he can't cancel, or I worry he will just leave the house early and then what, we chase him around town?
If we don't tell him until last minute, then he will refuse as he can't break his plans with her. The thing they have made plans for every single day, and if they haven't any specific plans, they just want to be together. So we can't even pre plan a day with him.

Our lives at the moment are dictated by his plans and where we have to take him to or pick him up from. He tells us what time to pick him up (from her house) and we get there and he still makes us wait.

I would love to invite his mates over but I think they would think it was weird that I was asking them and not him.

He also doesn't like to/want to hang out with us at all. Not to watch a movie or sport on tv, he barely eats a meal with us when he is home (except for the dinners we have insisted) this isn't a new issue but it has got worse since meeting her.

We try and be 'light' and fun and not so serious and he tells us we're weird and thinks it's stupid, we try and talk to him about some issues but he tells us we're negative. We literally can't win. But her mum is so fun and funny and they bond and have selfies together and that's ok, but if it was me he'd think I was stupid (and I'm aware how jealous I sound haha)