To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

(335 Posts)
morningpaper Tue 08-May-07 18:44:36

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.

AIBU?

tissy Tue 08-May-07 18:47:35

no, but neither is dh (sitting on fence emoticon). Perhaps there is a Woodcrraft Folk group near you- sounds like it would be more dh's thing. (Or you could put them down for Sea or Army Cadets, which really are militaristic, then Scouts would seem quite tame! )

edam Tue 08-May-07 18:48:04

That's what my parents said. Managed to argue my way into the Guides after we moved house, though - my mother thought it would help me to make friends.

I can't say I ever noticed any quasi-militaristic stuff going on, although we did swear allegiance to the Queen. Didn't bother me or affect my view of politics.

MrMariella Tue 08-May-07 18:48:34

Are scouts uni-sex these days???

dd is in the brownies......I think dh has an historic point, but I suspect his position has been de-constructed by the advance of post-modern materialism. Or something like that.......

tissy Tue 08-May-07 18:48:58

Sorry - very old fashioned view IMO.
DD & DS go to cubs & scouts and love it! They do so much they could not do otherwise - night hikes, building fires, camping - lots of camping and generally having so much fun. Useful stuff too like learning to cook, taking responsibility for others and themselves. There is a "military angle" in that there is a bit of bringing to order at the begining and end of a session but teaches them there are times to shut up and times to be rowdy. We don't do church parade as we are not religous.

I don't understand reinforcing class divisions - people from all walks of life at ours - working to upper, able bodied and not and lots of different backgrounds.

Really good for letting kids be kids.

Have you looked at Woodcraft Folk - that might be more what you are after?

TheArmadillo Tue 08-May-07 18:50:13

I have a friend that runs scout/beaver/cubs groups and has recently written a history of his local scout movement.

From him I'd say

Yes the scouts have always been militaristic and will always contain part of that about them. I don't think you can deny that one sorry.

reinforces class divisions? Don't think so. Depends on the area the group is in as to the class makeup of the group. Friend has run at least one group that was paid for in a disadvantaged area where there was nothing else to do. Also in rural areas apparently there is sometimes no other groups or activities for children to join. I don't think class division is as much of an issue as it used to be.

Pledge allegience to the queen - yes I still think they do that.

I think he claims 2 out of the 3. Sorry.
I still think it is a good organisation now. Can you concentrate on the positive points.

MrMariella Tue 08-May-07 18:50:45

Aren't Woodcarft folk just "pseudo-military........things" but without the shouting??

FrannyandZooey Tue 08-May-07 18:51:04

They are quite militaristic if you attend one of their ceremonies, it kind of takes you aback

the God thing does loom large as well

morningpaper Tue 08-May-07 18:54:43

I thought it was just camping and making fire

Hmm the Woodcraft Folk look so cult-ish

Aren't they allowed to cut their hair?

Blu Tue 08-May-07 18:54:47

Well I was a Brownie...and look at me now!
Had a Homemakers Badge for cooking buns and some other useful domestically competant task...and look at me now!
Whatever the effects, they won't last.

ThatBeetroot Tue 08-May-07 18:55:48

very funny title

MrMariella Tue 08-May-07 18:59:48

My father was an Irish Republican, so the thought of any of us swearing an allegiance to the English crown was anathema..

and I must admit seeing my dd in her Rainbows uniform, aged 5, when it was something 'for fun' did repel me a little.

But taking the longer view...children have no such qualms - it's fun to them and whattheir friends do and there are benefits..so, chill a bit is my VHO.

Blandmum Tue 08-May-07 19:03:10

Woodcraft folk, but would you have to hand knit his clothes from hemp and dried placentas????

NKF Tue 08-May-07 19:11:37

It's probably quite nice for kids to do something that isn't a specific skill. Mucking in together rather than progressing through grades in ballet or belts in karate.

NKF Tue 08-May-07 19:12:36

I remember being told that Hitler got the idea for Nazi Youth Groups from the Scouts but that's probably an urban myth.

morningpaper Tue 08-May-07 19:15:50

This is not good, it looks like he Has A Point

curses

MrMariella Tue 08-May-07 19:20:33

I think he does MP, but not the 'winning' one. If dd expessses a desire, then I'd go for it, albeit with reservations, and an indepth "de-programming" session after every meet up. Readings from Das Kapital would help......

FiveFingeredFiend Tue 08-May-07 19:20:37

Working class children who arn't educated enough to know about these things go to scouts/cubs and other dubious dib dib dib groups. Middle class children definatley shouldn't mix with any such groups that allow children to skid accross church hall polished floors on their knees and play "Pirates". The former is obviously socially deviant and the latter the mockery of a tragic part of history including rape, killing and such horrid acts.

PrincessPeaHead Tue 08-May-07 19:22:18

He Has a Point

Also Scouts do Attract Strange Men As Leaders

I know you will all howl me down and say that your scout leader is a marvellous gentle chap and your brother is a scout leader and wouldn't hurt a fly.... but it won't change the bare cold fact that Scouts do attract dodgy men much like boys boarding prep schools do.

PrincessPeaHead Tue 08-May-07 19:23:33

but if you are talking about brownies then I remove my objection to the adults that work with them.

Brownie leaders are the sort of women who in previous times would have been stalwarts of the WI. Completely different kettle of fish. You still have god and the queen in there though, can't avoid that

foxinsocks Tue 08-May-07 19:24:13

I'm afraid I side with your dh (though not sure about the class thing) - think there's also a religious element to it too (which put me off even more) - sorry!

PPH - in our troop the majority of leaders are women and the men are all fathers of boys in the pack and are all v normal

MrMariella Tue 08-May-07 19:25:41

Howl, howl, howl, howl......PPH. No evidence that such chappies are disproportionately represented in offending. Just in the media as it is so juicy for them as a story......

RubyRioja Tue 08-May-07 19:25:44

Well I have just attended DDs enrolment, which was very sweet. I think they have worked had to lose the obsolete aspects of the organisation. Frankly any pseudo military organisation run like they are would not be v effective!

By the way, she is an elf . It was like the Harry Potter sorting hat.

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