To ask for a refund?

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Yesterday I bought a used Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 I 16v VTR+ ESG petrol from a trader. It's an auto 07 plate and has just over 68,600 miles on the clock. Test drive was fine and the 70 mile drive home was also ok.

This morning I went out and the car started fine but driving away it sounded a bit like a a motorbike when I pressed down the accelerator, with the noise stopping when I took my foot away. The car felt a bit jolty changing gears too. Rang the place I bought it from and they asked me to try get a mechanic to have a look at it and let them know what was wrong. I had to nip out this afternoon and the noise was happening again but then the car seemed to get stuck in first and the car bleeped with a 'depollution system fault' and engine management light. After that the car seemed to struggle changing up gears, especially 3 to 4. Felt a bit sluggish.

Managed to get it home and called out AA to have a look at it. I explained what was happening, he had a look under the bonnet and revved the engine a bit. White smoke was coming out the back at this point. He plugged in his fault reader and the following codes came up:

P0170 - fuel correction bank 7
P0300 - random cylinder misfire
P0172 - fuel/air mixture rich
P0130 - o2 sensor, bank 7, sensor 2 out of range

The AA guy said it could just be a faulty o2 sensor but then again it might not be. Most likely the exhaust. I told him to leave everything as is for the time being as I'm going to give the trader a call tomorrow. I've been googling a lot (which can sometimes be a curse!) which throws up a possible hole in the exhaust etc etc. I did originally take a recording of the sound and sent it to a mechanic friend (not local) who says it sounds like this could be the case and they (the garage) could have patched it with putty or something hence there being no sound yesterday. I'm in two minds about what to do. Do I let them have a chance at fixing it or give it back an ask for a refund? I've been stung by a French car before (b*** Renault) and I really don't want to go through the aggro again to be honest. The trader also owns a garage and mot'd the car the day before I bought it with no advisories or anything. I know that under the October 2015 consumer act I do have the right to return the car for a refund within the first 30 days or ask for them to fix it. I think I'd prefer to ask for a refund at this stage, it's something I just don't need right now. The car was £4k and I'd expect better than it to be faulty a day after purchase. AIBU? Any advice would be appreciated!

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Sorry for the technical info - in case anyone 'in the know' for cars comes along and can give me a rough idea of what's what

[LetsDoTheYogiBear]

YANBU to want a refund- at all. They would also get a mouthful. Take it back first thing Monday (unless they are open tomorrow).

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Thanks Yogi.

They're open tomorrow so I will be calling them. Don't really want to drive it on the motorway with it seemingly struggling moving up gears. I will be asking them to come and collect it I think and, depending on the outcome of the discussion, putting a chargeback request in with my bank. The only slight problem I have is that when I went out this morning to it there's a hole in the rear left light cover. As far as I can remember it wasn't there when I drove away,

[Pinkheart5915]

I don't think you'd be unreasonable to ask for a refund. Having a fault the day after purchase is not good enough

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

If you can find a sensible (not KwikFit) place to put the car up on the ramp then they can probably spot the problem with the exhaust. It could be a hole in the back box but I'd be worried about the problem being more serious a screwing up the catalytic convertor if it's running rich for too long. If that happens it won't be a cheap fix.
Have you got the emission test results?

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Sorry pressed post too soon!

Kind of looks like someone has shot a BB gun at it or a stone has flew up and hit it, leaving it with the small hole and cracks around it. I don't know when this happened but I've literally had the car a day so I'm assuming maybe on the motorway? Though I didn't notice it when I got home.

[notapizzaeater]

I'd get the exhaust checked too and letting trading standards know about the mot done the day before

[LetsDoTheYogiBear]

I wouldnt get it looked at. I wouldnt even call. Id be on the door step when they open, handing them the keys and asking for my money. They have sold you faulty goods- why should you go and spend money on something you havent caused?

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

I don't think I do have the emissions test results. I will have a proper look in the morning before I ring.

The other thing was that the car was advertised with full service history and the sales guy mentioned it had been in for an adjustment to the clutch before. He said he had all the paperwork for this. As we were completing I asked about the paperwork and he said it was in the car. Stupidly (very very stupidly) I forgot to look. I was so rushed trying to sort the insurance and stuff that I simply forgot to look when I got in the car. After I got home I realised it wasn't there. I mentioned this to them this morning and was told that they do have it, it must have not been put back in after the car had been for its mot etc and they'd have a look for it.

When I rang back this afternoon to complain that the noise was happening more and more they didn't mention the service book. something else I will bring up with them tomorrow (again).

How much do places charge to have a look? We've got a good mechanic but he isn't local or full time, so no chance of getting him to have a look. We've been ripped off by several garages in the area for our last car, so don't have anywhere local that we know is any good.

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Sorry I'm taking too long to type. The only thing that concerns me with driving it back is the struggle it had to go past third when I was driving it back this afternoon after the check engine light came on. It also felt a bit sluggish and I don't fancy taking the risk. I should be able to ask them to come and collect it shouldn't I? Ideally I would absolutely take it back by driving it but I'm not so keen in these circumstances.

Will definitely look in to passing on the info to trading standards.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

It might be in a limp home mode which could explain the sluggishness. It's designed to protect the engine if something is wrong. Not infallible but if there is a major fault with the exhaust system then it's another indication not to drive it any distance.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

You may get somewhere to have a quick look for free. Our tyre & exhaust place did when I needed a quick look at the underside of my car. Or bung them a fiver.

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

The Renault did a limp home mode after the solinoid (spelling?) valve went on it. That didn't change out of first though. Could very well be limp home though it did go to 4th once. Took a lot of revs for it to get past 3rd though. I will put this all across to them, just hoping that it won't be a complete ballache to get sorted!

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Sorry lots of thoughs in that last post

[teafortoads]

Get it returned and money back! Total cowboys the garage who sold you this, and from experience, you will have nothing but problems from what sounds like a knackered and bodged car. Don't let them drag out 'repairs' so you run out of time with the 30 days to return law. Sadly I have had problems with random car sales places but also a proper Honda Garage. I will now keep my 07 plate low mileage trusty steed (Honda Jazz) which costs tuppence to run, despite getting told by friends it is exceedingly uncool and grannylike (It's a metal box which I use 2x weekly). Don't let them take the pee. Dropping £4k on a car should ensure a decent motor.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

Remember that cars work weirdly. You can return under the Consumer Rights Act as you've said, and request a refund, but legally they can argue for a repair. I'm not sure they'd bother but they might, if they know they've sold a lemon.

You can also reject if as not fit for purpose, which is what I'd do. There's no way they could prove that it was fit for purpose at the point of sale if it broke so soon so that should put you back in the position you were before the purchase.

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

Thank you.

I've given them a call already and was told the manager would be in in 30 mins. Left it nearly an hour and then called back, only to be told he wouldn't be in until after 3.30pm. I was passed to his 'second in command' and I started saying what the issue was. His first response was 'oh yeah, emissions are a common fault on these'. I then explained that I wanted a full refund to which he started saying about fixing the car. I told him I would no longer have any confidence in the vehicle, that I wanted to return it and get my money back. I went on to mention the consumer rights act 2015 and he interjected saying 'you don't have to throw this at me'. I went on to say about the car being faulty and therefore not fit for purpose and he said 'we get three chances to fix the problem'. I said that as it was in the first 30 days I could request a full refund and did not want a repair. He said 'I'm not arguing with you, manager will be in later and I will get him to call you.' I checked what time he was in and asked to be called as soon as possible as I wanted the issue sorting today and that if I'd not heard by 4pm I'd give them a call back.

I was polite throughout the phone call but he seemed quite dismissive. As far as I am aware the three attempts apply to the sale of goods act 1979, am I right? If the manager takes on the same attitude then it sounds like I might have a bit of a fight on. I know I can request a chargeback from my bank, which I know wouldn't guarantee anything, but would prefer to get it all sorted amicably first and foremost. What if they refuse to refund?

[LIZS]

You need to reject the car. Don't allow them the option to repair as that will just draw things out and potentially undermine your right to a refund later. Do you have the mot certificate? If not you should be able to check it online. Emissions figures etc will be on there, equally any notes about advisories.

[SouperSal]

Under consumer law you don't have the right of a refund. The trader has the right to carry out repairs or issue a refund (their choice).

[SouperSal]

You can't reject a used car. That only applies to new ones.

[LIZS]

I thought the law had changed recently so you could. Anyway try www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/

[fascicle]

Yes, that's incorrect Soupersal. OP wasn't made aware of the fault and has 30 days to reject the car/get a refund:

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

[IThinkIveHadEnough]

The law did change in October 2015 yes, which covers you for the first 30 days. This is from citizens advice:

‘Faulty’ means the car is not:

‘of satisfactory quality’ - it should do what you’d expect for its age, price and type
‘fit for purpose’ - eg if you asked for a car that would pull a caravan, it has to be able to do that
‘as described’ - it has to match the advert or the description the trader gave you
If the problem fits into at least one of these categories, take it back to the trader before 12 June 2016 to get a full refund. You have longer if you only want a repair - and if the trader takes too long (or it causes you too much inconvenience), you’ll still be entitled to a refund.

Think about whether the problem is likely to lead to bigger issues when you’re deciding whether you’d rather get a repair or a refund.

If the problem doesn’t need fixing (for example there’s a dent), you might want to ask the trader for a discount instead.

If the fault means you can’t drive the car, you should ask the trader to come and collect it at their own cost. You shouldn’t have to pay, so long as the car is actually faulty.'

Which also has this:

If there's a problem with a second-hand car soon after you've bought it - for example, the car develops a problem you wouldn't expect for the car's age and mileage, or it turns out not to be what you’d been led to expect - you may have the right to reject it and get your money back.

If you bought the car after 01 October 2015, you only have 30 days to reject a second-hand car and get a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act.

Lots to think about before either he calls me or I call him. I was under the impression that it's after the 30 days the dealer can choose to just repair but before then you can just ask for the money back and hand the car over? I'd really prefer the refund at this point.

[SouperSal]

Ah. Hadn't realised it had been updated. Yes, OP should reject the car then.

[araiba]

i think you will have problems getting a refund. for a start it was fine when you drove it home- so they didnt sell it broken- it may have broken after you drove it home. they will attempt to fix it

its a 9 year old citreon with 70000 miles on it, frankly im amazed it hasnt set itself on fire yet. you have previous experience of french cars and bought another one? your own bloody fault