A bit out there but AIBU in my opinion on Pub sector pensions/striking

[mrskeithlemon]

Ok, so I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a global recession, and that just because you chose to work in the public sector, it does not make you more important than private sector workers. Therefore I think the pension cuts are justified (armed forces aside) if we are to move on to a brighter future as a whole country. I think everybody has to suck up the fact that we are all affected by the recession and public sector or not, we are all going to take a hit

[Andrewofgg]

If you are in the private sector goods and you sell widgets to the government at an agreed price of £10,000 and you deliver the widgets - you expect £10,000, not £9,500 and "we all have to make cuts". Contracts with existing public servants should be honoured.

[spookshowangellovesit]

god how boring are you,and oh yes wrong. have a and take a chill.

[crazynanna]

"sucking up" the fact that we are in a recession does not mean day light bleeding robbery!

[MillieMummy]

Facts - real ones not the Daily Mail fairy story type - on the attached: most public sector workers get small pensions which they contribute to having worked for many years.

www.tuc.org.uk/extras/publicsectorpensions.pdf

I agree with Andrewofgg - contracts should be honoured.

[MissTinaTeaspoon]

Okaaay...where shall I start?

How about the reality of a 67 year old firefighter/nurse/doctor/teacher running into a burning building to save your life/hoisting you into a bath/running to a cardiac arrest/running around a playground? How about the government refusing to release the figures that demonstrate the alleged shortfall (the NHS pension scheme actually makes a profit)? How about the fact that we all signed into a scheme that is currently affordable for many that may well not be anymore?

And why do you single out the army as deserving to keep their current scheme? (note: I agree that they do an amazing job and I have great admiration for them. But so do I for firefighters, teachers, nurses etc)

[mrskeithlemon]

spookshowangellovesit I am very chilled thanks just a thought that occured to me today. I am an ex public sector worker by choice.

[shesparkles]

OP, you ARE aware that we do pay into our pensions in the public sector? It's not a state handout

[thingsabeachanging]

Public sector workers have had no inflationary pay rises for years so we are essentially sucking up year on year pay cuts already.

My problem with the pension proposals is not that we will get less, yes that is an issue but not my main one, it is that as well as cutting accrual rates so we get less out we are going to be told to put more in which our family simply cannot afford right now. This is going to result in me and my husband having to choose which 1 of us can have a pension. Also meaning we will have to rely even more on the state in our retirement. Where is the cost saving there?

[BecauseImWorthIt]

Why should the armed forces be exempt? If we're 'all in it together' then surely that means all of us?

Oh, and YABU

[LaurieFairyCake]

They are already experiencing cuts.

1. No cost of living increase - in real terms we are down £100+ per month
   
2. No pay rise despite meeting target so the school can save money - down £200 per month
   
3. Have to pay £70 extra a month into the pension to get the same as a year ago
   

We are now down £370 per month in REAL terms from last year.

Factor in the rising cost and people on average salaries are massively feeling the pinch.

And I got made redundant as a lecturer (public sector).

Can I also point out that dh is not going to vote for a strike but will instead be voting for a work to rule (ie. to do the work he is employed for) rather than the extra 10-20 hours a week on course work catch up sessions/detentions/meetings etc. he does every week

[crazyspaniel]

I'm also perplexed by the distinction between the armed forces and other public sector workers. As far I as know, the armed forces pensions are non-contributory, whereas most public sector workers contribute a not insubstantial amount to their pension (often around 8%). Many now have paid thousands into a something that will not be honoured.

[MissTinaTeaspoon]

Mostly though I wonder why public sector workers are the current choice for taking a bashing...why don't you campaign for better pensions for everyone instead of jumping on the daily mail bandwagon?

For the first time in my working life I am seriously wondering how I'll vote when the time comes for deciding on strike action.

[mrskeithlemon]

Laurie - I would be inclined to agree with your husbands take on things.

How about public sector workers that don't do the kind of jobs firefighters/army/nurses do? Everybody else in the country is suffering in the recession. Just because you chose to work for the council, why are you more entitled/special?

As a now private sector worker, I am too being bent over a barrell regarding my pension.

[lesley33]

I can kind of see your point. But I always wonder about how private sector poepl in this argument "forget" the perks that public sector don't get that they may. I am in a management position and everyone i know at a similar level in the private sector gets a company car, private health insurance and usually other benefits such as free access to a gym, small xmas bonus, etc.

Okay most of these aren't actually worth that much - but the exception is private health insurance. As a disabled person, there is no way I could ever afford private health insurance. But friends in the private sector with chronic illnesses have had excellent treatment and operations through their work private health insurance.

I think if you are going to look at fairness you need to look at the total package that public and private sector staff get and not just pick one element out.

[handbagCrab]

All workers should unite so that everyone has a decent pension and wage whether private or public sector. But unions aren't allowed to strike on behalf of other groups so you can't expect someone else to do it for you.

Pitting groups against each other improves nothing for anybody except the people at the very top. Divide and rule op!

[Iggly]

Well when you sigma contract you dont expect them to turn around and change it. So of course people are pissed off.

Look what happened to the private sector pensions with little or no union representation. You think it's a good thing that low paid private sector workers get sod all? Yet the senior staff rake it in with their fat pensions?

The "oh so wonderful and efficient" private sector has failed to provide decent pensions for most of it's employees except for those at the top. It's certainly no coincidence that the Institue of Directors and CBI who represent the interests of senior executives are calling for public sector cuts.

Why? Because they can continue to foster resentment between low paid private sector workers and public sector ones. This provides a neat cover for the lack of pensions for their lowly workers. As does the recession.

The MPs certainly aren't putting themselves through the same pension cuts so they can be damned if they expect everyone else to.

[mrskeithlemon]

Not all private sector workers get the company car/private health care though

[GeraldineAubergineZombieBalls]

I work in the NHS as a nurse in a specialist area. I could probably make nearly three times my hourly wage by swapping to the private sector or by joining an agency. However, because I believe in the ethos of the NHS i accept a lower wage than i could potentially earn and I put up with worse working conditions than I could have if I didn't stay in the public sector.
I haven't moaned about no increment for two years, nor about a change in working conditions which has seen many of my colleagues be demoted or lose posts. I therefore feel that changing the details of my pension is a step too far. Nurses, doctors, teachers, firemen, soldiers, police and all other public sector workers aren't sitting back and enjoying huge salaries and cushy jobs and thumbing their noses at the private sector, they are just asking for a fair deal, is that too much to ask? I will be working till 67 for a small pension, not so I can retire to the bahamas.

[mrskeithlemon]

I think what made me think about this was seeing on the news - public sector workers saying things like 'we empty your bins' ' we administer your benefits' I feel like saying 'and what? I do an important Job too - everybody that is employed does an important job. You chose public sector yes, well done, it doesn't make anybodys jobs more important than anothers

[reallytired]

The public sector pension scheme needs reform. There is absolutely no doult. Final salary pension schemes are great for people who are employed in the same job for 30 plus years, but the lack of flexiblity is real nightmare.

Women often lose out with final salary pension schemes because they tend to be in low paid temporary work. They often take career breaks or have to change career.

Final salary pension schemes often lock people into to jobs that they no longer have the capacity to do. This will become more of a problem as retirement age increases.

I would like the governant to push for more portable pensions. My dh in the private sector has had to pay for the start up costs of a new pension scheme very time he has changed jobs. Employers refuse to contribute to any pension scheme that this not their own. This needs to change for the sake of all workers.

Public sector workers are angry because they have had a lot of negative change thrown at them all at once. It is a bit harsh to be threatened with redunancy, have lots of changes in policy, lose London weighting and be expected to pay for a lower pension and work longer.

[Firestone]

There is evidence that public pension pots are sufficient, i.e. that pensions as they stand are affordable. It seems likely therefore that the increased payment into pension funds required for public sector workers will be used to offset this country's almighty debt, not used for pensions, so effectively by choosing not to jump shop into the private sector like you but continue to work for the greater good (on a lower salary than I could get in the private sector) I'm being taxed an additional 3% and getting worse benefits. Yeah, that's fair.....

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

Those public sector workers who get pensions for which they dont contribute to, then fine, they should start paying.

Aside from that YABU

[mrskeithlemon]

Firestone - i didn't jump shop, I was a nurse and left my job due to an incident that i didnt think i would get over

[crazyspaniel]

My union (UCU) has voted for working-to-rule, rather than all-out strike. As far as I can see, this is pointless. Most of us regularly work at least 50 hours a week (and no such thing as paid overtime), but we have no set hours, simply a statement in our contracts that we will work however many hours are necessary to do the job. We do not exactly get salaries which reflect the hours we work, the responsibilities we take on, and the eight to ten years of training required. Those who have tried to work-to-rule by restricting their hours to a 38-hour week are already being threatened by management. The strike is over a pension scheme which is in profit, and there has been no consultation over the changes (the employers consistently refused to speak to the union). The changes were simply swept in and have now come into effect as of this month. There is a tipping point as to what people can afford to put into their pensions, particularly at a time of growing inflation and falling salaries. The upshot will be that many simply stop paying into their pension scheme because that extra 2 or 3% is unaffordable to them, despite already having paid thousands or tens of thousands into it.