Sorry if someone was made to feel unwelcome

[GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt]

I refer to a complaint made to Rowan on the 'sleeping with the enemies' thread - it was made by a gay woman who felt that she was being made to feel unwelcome.

I don't know exactly what the complaint was but I assume it is to do with the lesbophobia terminology used.

I am really sorry if that has upset someone - it is not a word intended as an insult. I only used it in context of an argument about vile thread a few months back. In that thread a MNer (who happened to be gay) stated some very distasteful and triggering views, and a good number of MNers complained about it and rebuked her on the thread. Another MNer (call her X) said that this was a mark of 'lesbophobia' (her words) and that a lot of MNers were homophobic.

This was strongly contested by lots of people - I am not homophibic in the least, and neither are most of us on here, there are plently of long standing gay women on MN, and some were raised in families with gay women, so for a great sweeping statement of 'you lot are lesbophobic' was bloody out of order.

Hence the reference to it on that thread. I am sorry that it was upsetting, it is certainly not a word I use and I only used it in the context of the above. I can see that at best it looks like ignorant flippancy and at worst looks insulting. So please accept my apologies.

Rowan - if you want to delete this thread as you don't want another bunfight please can you forward my apology to the MNer mentioned by you (I am going to report this post but I think this is the best way to communicate directly with MNHQ). Thanks

[THEMardy]

I've been at work all morning and wondered where that thread had gone, although even when I left it around 9am I could see it had potential to descend into a bunfight.

Whatever was said I would echo GetOrf's view that the overwhelming majority of MNers are most definitely not homophobic, and that all are welcome. I hope this doesn't get deleted.

[THEMardy]

(was it a real humdinger btw)

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

I missed it as well although I started it. Lesbophobia is commonly taken to refer to specifically prejudice against lesbians. Homophobia means prejudice against those who are attracted to the same sex. The terms mean different things.

And MN like a lot of places, is fine to lesbians as long as you dont really mention you are a lesbian or any way that impacts on your life. As long as we shut up and pretend we are like everyone else, then yes there is no lesbophobia.

[GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt]

FWIW the person who reported the feeling unwelcome absolutley has an Agenda, as evidenced by the snidy PM she sent to me when I started this thread. I started it genuinely as I thought someone had been genuinely upset but NO. It was someone rehashing the old rows which had been going on on and off board. So plus ca fucking change.

Re the latest sally from EBAL, I absolutely disagree with you. I would really like for you to show examples of this perceived attack on lesbians.

I have never seen the term lesbophobia until you raised it several months ago. Homophobia covers it imo.

There are plenty of lesbians on here who have been here for years and as far as I see it there is no anti-lesbian agenda on here.

I think it is very insulting to say that lesbians have to keep their mouths shut about their sexuality as otherwise the 'lesbophobia' comes out.

And as someone who has two members of their family come out in a rural area of Devon in the early 80s and seen first hand all the shit that came their way I would say that your statement shows you haven't a fucking clue what real 'lesbophobia' is all about.

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

I really object to the accusation taht I dont know what real lesbophobia is like. I am not going to share personal details here, but after being driven out of 1 job and attacked by neighbours, I can assure you I do

[GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt]

Well I object to the accusation that MN is a hotbed of homophobic activity.

If you know what real homophobia is like then you know that it is not present on here.

[EchoBitch]

I haven't seen homophobia on here either,i have seen it in RL,directed towards my 17 (then) year old son and years ago towards friends and collegues.
It's not nice and he has that shit to look forward to all his life from ignorant cunts.
Not a very clever thing to stir up where it doesn't exist.
I don't for one minute think there are no homophobic posters on MN but i have never seen it.

[enimmead]

I have to admit there is a certain irony in someone complaining about lesbophobia from someone who "doesn't believe someone can change sex" - or undergoes gender reassignment. And clearly states that regularly in her posts.

[digerd]

The word Phobia means fear, so people who have these phobias as apparently afraid. I must admit I don't understand homosexuality, but it certainly does not scare me. People have the right to their opinions and feelings, but not to be insulting to others. Any nasty thoughts should be kept to themselves.

[ChickensHaveNoEyebrows]

I have never heard the term 'lesbophobia', and I have never seen anyone be treated badly for their sexuality on MN. For being an arse, yes, for being gay, no.

[BIWI]

I've never seen any evidence of your claims, EBALs. Perhaps you could point us in the right direction? If I saw anything like that, I would call it straight away. Both on the thread and, probably, in a report to MNHQ.

And good OP, GetOrf. How unfortunate that your good intentions have been undermined by nasty, cowardly PMs.

[digerd]

ps and is a criminal offence GBH I believe to attack anybody for being different from them in any way. I am so sorry for your terrible experience with these terrible thugs

[TunipTheVegemal]

I don't think it is for us as heterosexuals to write off the existence of 'lesbophobia' as a thing. There are reasons why the people at the receiving end have given it its own name (chiefly as I understand it because otherwise women's experience gets ignored in favour of men's, and the discrimination lesbians get is qualitatively different in many ways from that suffered by gay men).

That is a separate issue from whether or not it exists in these particular Mumsnet threads but I didn't want to leave posts implying there's no such thing as lesbophobia to stand without challenging them.

[KeemaNaanAndCurryOn]

I am neither lesbophobic nor homophobic, but I am sure as hell stirringthingsupandactinglikeacuntaphobic.

So basically someone reported that the thread had made them unwelcome due to their sexual orientation, when actually they'd just reported it as they had an axe to grind with some of the posters.

Nice that.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

How strange. I have always thought the MN community by large is very non lesbophobic (apart from a very few tossers, which you will find anywhere) There are many openly gay women on here who are popular and valued.

If anyone can point me to the phobic posts I would be grateful.

As an aside, getorf, you still owe me a coffee meet up.

[KeemaNaanAndCurryOn]

I agree that lesbophobia exists. Its not surprising really as some people can't deal with anyone who is different to them in any way. I expect that MNHQ deal with any reported instances in the same way they deal with any other hate speak and I've not seen a culture of "Ok so long as you don't mention that you're a lesbian" on MN. If that really IS the case then it needs to be brought to the attention of HQ.

The deleted thread in question would seem not to have been one of those examples though.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

SGM. daftpunk is who I had in my head when I typed the word tossers.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Oh, and I agree that losbophobia does exist. Just not noticed it much on here - previous examples excepted.

I hope I would challenge it if I did see it, but as a het woman I realise that might be like my dh failing to spotting casual sexism. If that makes sense.

[KeemaNaanAndCurryOn]

True that you are more likely to see something if it directly affects you. I'm very quick to spot disablist comments as I'm sensitive about it.

[BIWI]

I absolutely agree that it would be naive to say that lesbophobia doesn't exist, or that it isn't something shared by some MNetters. But this:

"And MN like a lot of places, is fine to lesbians as long as you dont really mention you are a lesbian or any way that impacts on your life. As long as we shut up and pretend we are like everyone else, then yes there is no lesbophobia."

... is a very sweeping and unfair statement, IMVHO.

[madwomanintheattic]

lol at 'a certain irony', enimmead

i must get back to that intersectionality thread...