Quite shocked and disappointed by my friends' reactions. Am I being unfair?

[EduStudent]

I found out this evening that an acquaintance's boyfriend got physically abusive with her the other night. From what I understand, he pushed her over, then trashed all her belongings that were at his place, e.g. smashing perfume, ruining make-up etc.

I was told this by mutual friends, who were saying what an absolute cunt the boyfriend is. However, they then said that the ruining the make-up was the worst part and implied that the fact he hadn't offered to pay to replace it was worse than his lack of apology for physically hurting her .

They're also supposed to be going to Australia next week for a long holiday/short travelling and my various friends all basically said that she couldn't split up with him because it was booked and they'd lose out.

I don't entirely know why I'm posting this, other than I'm completely horrified that my friends seemed to think the make-up was worse than the physical stuff and that a holiday meant you had to stay together. I said that for me that would be an absolute dealbreaker and that it was a hateful thing to do.

It's the first time I've encountered violence in a relationship at such close proximity and just found my friends' reactions completely shocking. Is there anything you can do to change views like this? These are all young people at university, I guess I just thought that these views were old-fashioned and dying out, but apparently alive and kicking

[chipmonkey]

Oh Dear God, I would worry that she might not come back from that holiday! How have these girls been brought up that they can't see how bad this is?

[EduStudent]

I just don't know and yes, I will be worried for her safety if she goes.

The only thing I can cling onto is that they did think it horrendous, even if their priorities are a bit mixed up. Not much consolation, though. I hadn't realised how ingrained the tendency to downplay violent relationships was, especially in this generation.

It's made me think about how much my education lacked any hint of staying safe in a relationship, it was all condoms and STIs. Bloody hell, it really is shit, isn't it

[beansmum]

Why why why would she go on holiday wth him?

I agree, the reaction of your friends sounds awful. On the other hand, maybe the make-up thing was the worst part for her? Maybe those things are really important to her?

I know I would be completely devastated if a boyfriend wrecked a possession he knew I cared about, and perhaps less devastated if he pushed me over in the course of an argument. It would completely depend on the extent of the violence, but I think it's the nasty deliberate action that would hurt me the most.

Now I'm wondering if I'm as bad as your friends?! Anyway, I would be trying my hardest to convince my friend not to go travelling with this man.

[FrothyDragon]

Are you able to talk to your friend alone? Because, right now, she'll need that dissenting voice that says "No, none of this is acceptable." You can't make choices for her, but you can make her aware of the fact there's a way out.

Women's Aid have some advice on how to help family and friends in abusive relationships here

[EduStudent]

I have to say, I don't know if she is actually going to go on the holiday.

I don't really know how to go about speaking to her about it, we're more acquaintances with mutual friends than friends with each other. We only see each other on nights out, shes not someone i would see in the day exceot very rarely. I don't have her mobile number or anything and am presumably not supposed to know, although obviously her safety and well being is outweighs that.

I do know she has the close support of her best friend, who was the most reassuring of the group and who has offered her a place to stay and will drop everything to go to her the moment she's needed.

Frothy Thank you for the link, I'll have a read through and plan out what I may be able to do.

Beansmum I did think myself that the action of destroying the make-up could be a very distressing thing, the deliberateness of it. And also the possibility of an aspect of control over appearance. However, my friends were talking in terms of the monetary value, not the motives

[namechangeguy]

Men who use violence in any aspect of a relationship are twats of the highest order. He will not be able to control this, and he will do it again, as surely as night follows day. However, the woman under threat will probably be the last to see this, so I think you are fighting a lost cause. Just support her as best you can.

As for the wider question about attitudes - the younger generation (God, I am old ) seem to have largely abandoned any sort of wider political awareness in favour of some sort of pursuit of self-gratification and self-indulgence. Not only do they not know what is going on in the world around them, they don't seem to care. It makes me sad.

Here endeth the sermon.

[bejeezusWC]

just picking up on your confusion over your friends reaction...from my experience....I think they are not appreciating what this actually means. they are seeing it as a completely out of character, never to be repeated incident. Not seeing that what it really points to in terms of the boyfriends character and how he views your friend/women/relationships.

I think if you have never experienced violence in a relationship, it can be hard to believe that people can really be like that especially people you know....especially the boyfriend of your friend. I think sometimes people think it only happens to Jeremy Kyle types

I imagine your friend who experienced this, is reeling and stunned and confused. And maybe a bit ashamed (because she isnt a JK type?). She is very very lucky to have you as a friend. I agree with frothy You need to tell her it is really OK not to go on holiday with him In fact, she shouldnt go on holiday with him; it doesnt matter about the money that will be lost, and it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks about her or the situation

In fact, she would be well advised to go to the police, but I am guessing that would be a step too far

[bejeezusWC]

just read that you dont know her very well edu

IMO you will be doing a really good thing, if you seek her out and speak to her about this

Even if she dismisses you/gets cross for breach of confidentiality

[enimmead]

At what point does it not become OK? At what point does someone think - you know what, this guy should not be doing all this to me? What will it take to realise this guy is violent and controlling? Or will she just take it as a part of the relationship.

No one has the right to be violent in a relationship. It is not acceptable. I worry that if she goes on holiday, then more things will happen and she will just accept that as that is how her relationship is.

She may think it is out of character if you talk to her, that it won't happen again , it was a one off etc etc. He's pushed her over and trashed all her stuff. What kind of person does that? Is that the kind of person you want to be in a relationship with?

[EduStudent]

The horrible thing is that this isnt out of character. At least, him being violent generally isn't, as far as I'm aware this is the first time he's physically abused her, although I have to say I am sceptical and think that perhaps this time was just the first time that couldn't be dismissed, IYSWIM. He has certainly been extremely violent with male friends before. I have always avoided him as I am actually scared of him. He had a real vendetta against me last year for utterly ridiculous reasons and was basically bullying me. Me, as someone he barely knew and who had never done anything against him. He actually sought me out to insult me and take the piss out of me, all in the name of 'banter' [anger]

namechangeguy I completely agree. My peers just don't have any awareness of the world around them and think that questioning politics is only for people who are twats and want to cause trouble

[CailinDana]

Sadly, the attitude your friends have isn't rare and is a huge part of the reason why so many women stay in violent relationships, particularly after the first incident of violence. To your friend this incident will have been terribly frightening and shocking, as another poster said, possibly shameful. No doubt she will have wondered what she did to "deserve" such treatment and will have been trying to find reasons and excuses for the person she loves to do that to her. What she needs in that situation is for her friends to come along and say "You know what, that's totally unacceptable, no man should ever be aggressive with you, ever." Instead her useless friends have focused on the bloody makeup and have said she should still go on holiday with him. So now she will be thinking "The person who loves me most assaulted me and my friends who also love me, think I should just let it go." What a fucked up message to be getting. Basically your friends have kicked her while she was down by implying that her own feelings are worth less than make up and a holiday.

[EduStudent]

I'm really, really hoping that they haven't actually said that to her. But even if they haven't, if that's how they feel then it will come through in whatever they do say.

It makes me so angry. I know these views are rife and common place, I just thought my friends would be, well, like me.

At the moment I'm keeping an eye out for her. I am confident that her best friend is supporting her, but I'm certainly not just going to leave this.

[FairPhyllis]

namechangeguy

"Men who use violence in any aspect of a relationship are twats of the highest order. He will not be able to control this, and he will do it again"

Everything I have ever read about DV suggests that it is in fact a deliberate choice on the part of an abuser. Saying that abusive partners commit DV because they are out of control or can't help it is perpetuating a myth.

Sorry to go off topic, but this is FWR and I felt this ought to be picked up.

[bobbledunk]

yanbu, I don't understand why it's not drilled into girls from a young age that you leave the first time (or beforehand if you notice any weird signs), staying is giving him license to do it again and violence continually escalates. Hopefully your acquaintance has better sense than your idiot friends and has dumped the prick already. Doesn't sound like it though.

[NicknameSchmickname]

I expect a lot of this is bravado on your friends' part. And immaturity.

Also perhaps they think their friend can look after herself, which you obviously don't.

You can't change people's minds, all you can do is lay out your own opinion and hope that people are persuaded by it, did you actually do that?

[FrothyDragon]

I do love waking up to a bit of victim blaming...

Nickname, I'll have to pull you up on this bit. "perhaps they think their friend can look after herself, which you obviously don't."

That, to me, reads as "Well, strong women don't get abused", which is a myth. It's those kinds of myths that lead to strong women who are in abusive relationships finding it more difficult to speak out. Can we stop stereotyping DV victims and survivors please? It really doesn't help.

[NicknameSchmickname]

I think it is the case that (mentally) strong women don't get abused. They may be attakced once, but not twice. Anyone who knows their own worth and has the capacity to leave an ongoing abusive situation will do so. That's not to say I think that strong women or people can't be made weak or weaker by abuse. Clearly they can be, that is the nature of abuse and that is how it is sustained. The solution to any chronic abusive situation is to build up the victim's strength and then they will make healthier choices.

But what I meant by saying the friends think she can look after herself, was that they believed she had the capacity to make her own decisions and decide to go on holiday with this man. The OP clearly seems to think she has lost this capacity. I can't comment on who is right.

[CailinDana]

So women who stay with abusive men are mentally weak Nickname?

[NicknameSchmickname]

As opposed to physically, yes. I don't mean by that that they have weak characters, I mean they are psychologically weakened by the abuse either before or during the relationship. Or would you say that a strong, healthy woman with options allows people to mistreat her?

Women do not leave abusive men when the abuse gets really bad, they leave when they feel strong and able to cope.

An abuser goes out of his way to either select vulnerable people or to psychologically weaken less vulnerable ones so they will stay. He recognises weakness is a critical factor in carrying out his control.

Except in the most critical situations where an intervention is required, the job of a friend who is concerned about somebody who is addicted to any kind of dangerous behaviour be that abusive sexual relationships, drugs, alcohol, gambling, criminality, is to psychologically strengthen them so they can make better choices.

[KimaGreggsSausageRoll]

Wow NicknameSchmickname what a hideous thing to say

"Healthier choices" WTF?!

I trust you have never been unlucky enough to go out with someone who happens to be an abuser. Because it would be his fault if he abused you, not yours for being "weak" you know.

Crap like this makes me so angry, I have just remembered why I don't lurk or post much in the feminist section!

[KimaGreggsSausageRoll]

"addicted to any kind of dangerous behaviour" "make better choices"

So by your reasoning if all women were "strong" there would be no abusive men?

[FrothyDragon]

Are we really putting "being in an abusive relationship" in the same category as gambling?

Bloody hell.

I'm actually lost for words.

[NicknameSchmickname]

Addictive gambling yes.

Don't be lost for words, defend your stance against an alternative point of view to your own (preferably with some evidence rather than mute outrage).

[chipmonkey]

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, Nickname.
Abusive men up the ante very slowly. They don't start out being abusive and even the strongest of women can be taken in by them at first.
And strong women are the sort that think "It's not abuse because I'm able to stand up for myself and I answer back" not realising that just because you answer back and defend yourself doen't mean you're not being abused.
And I believe there are some men who feel that strong women are a challenge and set out to break them.