AIBU to treat male and female posters differently on feminism threads?

[EatsBrainsAndLeaves]

First of all, I want to make this clear that this only applies to feminims threads.

When a woman poster posts comments where it is clear that she doesn't understand feminism or her arguments are contradictory, I am more than happy to spend lots of time gently explaining my point of view. I know I still have a lot to learn about feminism and part of that is hearing what other women have to say. And I know that when I started posting comments about feminism on the internet I didn't really understand it, and many of my comments will have been contradictory.

Some lucky women grow up being taught about feminism - usually by their mothers. But for most of us, we learn about feminism as adults and as we grow up. And as feminists I do think we owe it to women to explain our point of view gently. I know not all women will agree with us, but most of us became feminists because of other women taking the time to do this.

I feel quite differently about men posting on feminist threads. When men post comments that show they don't really understand feminism or are contradictory, often they just derail threads. On a feminist thread I don't feel women should have to take the time to explain to men about feminism or argue with men. It should be a space for women to discuss feminism. I should clarify that I am not talking about men being abusive, just men not understanding feminism.

But then when I post something to a man like - you obviously don't understand feminism and are not contributing anything, I just feel guilty. Is this just my socialisation telling me I should be nice to men coming through, but my basic analysis is correct? Or is my analysis wrong? I am genuinely interested in the views of other feminists. If you are a man and you post I will ignore you. This is not a thread about men. It is a thread about what as feminists it is reasonable for us to do.

Sorry this is such a long post.

The skill of ignoring men is underrated, in my opinion.

Rightly or wrongly, I feel the same way.

I think that the attitude to someone who genuinely doesn't understand feminism and is asking,or whose arguments are contradictory,should be the same whether the poster is a man or a woman.
I can see the advantage in women being able to discuss feminism in a feminist space,but I also think 50% of society is male and if you are not going to debate and explain your beliefs to with and to a large group of people however defined you are not going to get far.( I know about the trolling and derailing but that doesn't change my opinion on this.)
I don't see why posting to a man that he doesn't understand feminism should make you feel guilty though!
By the way,how are you going to tell if we are men or not,to decide whether to ignore us?

How do you know who is a man, though unless they say so?

Genuine question - a couple of times people have thought I'm a man (not on feminism threads, and it wasn't relevant to the discussion, only 'there's a bloke on here who says X' sort of thing). I did point out I'm an enthusiastic Mooncup user (as per my posting history), but I was still a bit bemused by it . . .

X post with Pride.

I do definitely agree that ignoring the intentional de-railers is the way to go wherever possible, though.

To me, as a first time poster on feminism (gulp!) what strikes me is that perhaps I don't understand the difference between equality and feminism. In my opinion OP your behaviour is sexist- you treat a poster differently purely because of their sex. I understand your reasoning and don't mean to sound critical, but this is how it appears to me. I'll watch this thread with interest and see what others have to say.

Would second Takver's point, also having been accused of hairy-handed tendencies.

It can be a very effective way to silence other women who simply don't agree with you.

The thing is Thepie, men often dominate conversations in real life, this has actually been proven in research. This forum and feminist discussions in general are an opportunity for women to dominate and itis important that they do because it is easy for men NOT to understand our point of view because they don't experience institutional sexism first hand and also because women are the ones leading the fight as we have the most vested interest and we need to do this for ourselves. It's nice if they can support the cause but they should not dominate or derail. There are plenty of resources for them to access to learn. Some people are cagey about men having a big part in a feminist discussion as it can be seen as muscling in and unfortunately because many men argue againstequality because they perceive it to threaten their advantage.

I think you're better addressing the opinion rather than the person's sex.

Although there are male posters who come on here displaying a great deal of male privilege and entitlement and obviously only want to get in the way of the feminism. But then again, that's behaviour that needs to be addressed rather than someone's sex.

I have the same problem ThePieSmuggler.One of the basics of my feminist beliefs is that people should be treated equally regardless of gender,and while I know it can be more complicated than this,I would be furious if posters wouldn't discuss certain topics with me because I was a woman,so I can't justify doing that to a man.It makes me feel hypocritical
I know not everyone feels like this,though.

I should make it clearer that I only do this where I know the OP is a man e.g. where they say they are a man either on the thread in question or elsewhere.

Or in other feminist forums where people use actual names, real or not, as their user name. So in this scenario I would assume a name such as Brain Smith is a man.

I was nodding to Pride's post - I would be very unhappy if someone refused to recognise or engage with my opinion just because I am a woman.

Brain Smith is a man because - women don't have brains??

Iamsherlocked Sorry was meant to be Brian Smith not Brain!

Women and men aren't in the same position of course. So treating everybody "equally" will generally mean that women will lose out, because women are already in a disadvantaged position to men.

Men are trained to dominate and expect their voices to be listened to and heard, and they can get very shirty and sometimes even vengeful if it doesn't happen. I've seen it happen on here sometimes.

NYAC - Thats kind of how I feel. i am actually happy to discuss feminism with men in other forums and in rl. I suppose I think om numsnet in the feminist threads we should get a chance to discuss things with just women for a change.

And ThePieSmuggler - welcome to the feminist forum

I don't think you should treat someone differently because they are a man. But I think it's fair to treat people differently because of their lack of personal experience of a situation - and I would do that on any type of thread. So if someone comes onto a Home Education thread who has no experience of HE, then my opinion of their opinion is different from if they have experience of what they're talking about.

I don't ignore them, but the value I put on their opinion is changed, and the ways I attempt to explain things to them (or don't bother) will vary too, depending if I think they are genuinely interested in understanding, or are just there to air their prejudices.

I think it's perfectly fair to differentiate how you treat people on a thread/topic in that way.

I think that the attitude to someone who genuinely doesn't understand feminism and is asking,or whose arguments are contradictory,should be the same whether the poster is a man or a woman

Sort of agree with that.

I also think that is a male poster ask a genuine question or appears to really want to understand then it would be wrong IMO to deny him a response.

Surely it is just as important for an unimformed man to become informed as it is for a woman in the same position? if the hope is to change how things are then surely men need to be in on it too?

Yes,I understand that Nyac,but it still feels wrong to me in this situation - I have less problems with affirmative action (now I feel hypocritical about that too...)
I am not sure that I agree that men are "trained" to dominate and expect their voices to be heard - I think that very much depends on individual situation.I grew up arguing regularly with my Dad,as did DSis, and I think that has left me believing that if you disagree with someone you can argue/discuss with them,male or female.They might expect to dominate and get shirty when they can't,but so what? Particularly in a predominantly female virtual space like MN. If women don't debate with men,how will that ever change?

EatsBrainsandLeaves - nice name by the way - your post made me realise that I'm biased - I work in a very female dominated environment,and my social life is female dominated too,so I get plenty of opportunity to discuss things just with women.,it isn't something I feel it'd be good to have more of!

Pride - Personally I spend a lot of time at work and certainly in my social life with women. So personally its not about that. Its about choosing to discuss feminism in a space where I want to discuss it with women and to a certain extent put my energy and time into doing this with women not men - sorry I don't think I am being very clear, but not sure how else to put it.

And thanks for complimenting the name. I started a thread in chat asking for ideas, so sadly it is not my idea, but a very witty MN poster

How I see it is as follows.

I don't post a lot on here, but I'm always reading, and I have seen many comments highlighting the facts that many men are not aware of the issues that women still face today.

If a man comes on to these boards, and asks a genuine question about feminism, surely the most logical approach is to engage with this individual?

If women aren't willing to discuss the issues with men, how on earth do we expect men to become aware of them in the first place?

Surely not wishing to enter into discussion with a man about feminism, is scoring an own goal, because we NEED more men to become aware of the issues we face?

To me it strikes as cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

Thanks for starting this thread. I have asked myself the same question many times and nearly started a thread about this a while ago.

Lots of feminist internet spaces do not welcome male posters - and they choose not to for a reason.

MN is not that sort of space, it is an open forum and all are welcome to post, indeed this is one of the many pluses of MN.

HOWEVER, inevitably, men and women experience patriarchal society differently and we do not always find it easy to mark out a middle ground with on which to discuss feminist/women's right issues. Fact is that women discuss such issues from a position of the oppressed class and men from a position of the privileged class, and there is no getting around that.