Seeing 60 seconds of someone else's domestic violence situation made me wonder...

[AgentZigzag]

...where the message that it's a violent crime which shouldn't be tolerated, got lost.

I'm presuming this situation was a result of a domestic violence incident, although there could be another explanations to the way I've read between the lines.

I was walking towards the local Spar shop at 1.30 yesterday afternoon with my 2 YO DD, who was walking but saying she was tired. I stopped to put her in her pushchair and could see one of our neighbours who works at the Spar with an 18/19 YO girl talking to a woman on the ground.

The woman on the ground had a wet patch on her trousers, as if she'd sat in a puddle, and I could see her face was red, like really sunburnt from the distance I was at.

As I got closer our neighbour was finishing off talking to the woman, who was now standing, and we walked off from the woman together, leaving the younger woman with her.

When I was up close I could see the red was actually blood, because her face had been beaten to a pulp, literally. She had new bruises, really blue and coming up, with blood streaming down her nose, and I think the wet patch was her wetting herself.

I asked my neighbour if the police had been called, and she said the woman was pissed and when asked about the police said 'what would be the point?'. The neighbour then said she didn't know whether it was her business or not (not in an offhand uncompassionate way, but more questioning her take on the situation IYSWIM), and I said it definitely was judging by the state of her face. I was looking back all the time (a few meters away) and a man was helping her into a house, the neighbour said 'Oh, XXXX (mans name) is taking her in', and the neighbour started answering questions from other people at the Spar, so I walked off.

I can't get the woman's face out of my head, wondering how she's doing and what happened after I left. To know there's a man living close by (these weren't injuries a woman could inflict) who could be capable of that in an afternoon, even though I'm not naive and know they look 'normal', is a horrible reminder of what goes on behind closed doors.

There are two things I keep thinking about -

-What does her not seeing the point of calling the police say? Whether it's because it's happened before and her telling them was useless, or whether she didn't think they could do anything to protect her, both lead to the police not being able to effectively deal with these types of crime.

-Also, why did the neighbour wonder whether she'd be justified in ignoring the crime, weighing up whether it was any of her business? If it were an older person being punched to the extent this woman was she wouldn't have hesitated in calling them. Could the way it happened not being how some people see as a 'typical' DV incident (i.e. at night, inside etc) have skewed the neighbours judgement of what to do and made her question herself?

Sorry if it's long and the point isn't very clear, I was just surprised at my own shock seeing her face and of the significance such a small space of time can have. I know what it feels like to get a thrashing so I've seen it in the mirror, but it seemed worse somehow seeing it on someone else.

[TheCreepingLurgy]

Couldn't you have called the police???

[NomNomDePlum]

can you call the police now? and ask what they advise? it may be that they can't do anything anyway, but they certainly can't do anything if they don't know.

[AyeRobot]

Maybe if you examine why you didn't call the police, then you might get close to an answer as to why they didn't.

I hope she's OK. And that she does have people looking out for her.

[SardineQueen]

I expect a large part of people not taking action was because the woman was drunk.

How do you know it was a DV incident and not something that had happened with someone in the pub or on the street or anywhere? I may have misunderstood the scenario.

[AgentZigzag]

I made a conscious choice when I was putting DD in her pushchair that if people were with her I wouldn't stay, but if she was on her own I would have stayed with her and called the police myself.

I was thinking about DD, her seeing the womans face and the risk of the bloke still being around.

I don't regret the choice I made.

[SardineQueen]

Sorry that sounds judgemental.

I don't think that people shouldn't help drunk people, but I know in practice it makes it less likely.

[SardineQueen]

SHOULD

FFS

[FallenCaryatid]

It may have been DV, or she may have fallen on her face whilst pissed. You could call the non-emergency number and inform the police of your concerns that way.

[AyeRobot]

Probably a large dollop of Bystander Theory going on. If there are multiple people at a scene, everyone waits for someone else to take charge.

Very glad that someone helped her, although I really hope that it wasn't him who did that to her. It was def a beating, was it? Rather than her being pissed and falling flat on her face? That might be another assumption that was being made, or at least enough to swing the arrow from "call the police" to "not getting involved".

[AgentZigzag]

I think you're right that bystander apathy was part of it Robot, but seeing it as each person just palming off the responsibility onto others doesn't take into account the legitimate reasons why someone can justify not acting.

It was probably less than 60 seconds tbh, and the instinct I fell back on was definately to protect DD from any potential violence, that's a very powerful feeling which I wasn't prepared to risk ignoring.

The injuries weren't from falling on her face, I don't know anything about what forensic evidence says about traumatic injuries, but they were 'localised' bruises if that makes sense, all over her face. As I said in the OP though, it added up to what I said but I accept I could be wrong.

[Nyac]

How about an ambulance if you didn't feel up to calling the police?

You didn't need to hang around.

[Nyac]

Do you know what, this woman was beaten to a pulp and you didn't do anything? I don't understand why you're posting about it. What's the point? A woman got beaten and nobody would help her.

This is an appalling story.

[MustControlFistOfDeath]

I would have called the police and informed them of what I had seen and the address where she was taken.

[AgentZigzag]

Do you think I would have posted about it in the feminist section if I wasn't completely sure the instinct to protect my DD and that I wasn't leaving the woman to her fate, was the right decision at the time nyac?

People were helping her, and I don't mean leaving it to other people to do it.

[NomNomDePlum]

it is an awful story, nyac, but i understand the op not wanting to risk getting her small dd involved in it.

i think still think it might be worth phoning the police even now, though, to see if anything can be done

[Nyac]

A telephone call made from round the corner does not mean involving your daughter in this. You saw a woman badly hurt, whom nobody else was helping and you left her too.

There's always a reason for people not getting involved. There's never a reason for doing so, except that you just decide you have to, no excuses.

The guy who beat her just got the message that people will always help him get away with it.

[Nyac]

BTW, the title of this thread: 60 seconds is also long enough for a man to kill a woman. It happens.

[Huffpuffle]

Give the police a call on the non-emergency number. I have done this in the past and they reassured me I had done the right thing. Circumstances were different from those you describe but I like you was concerned for someone's safety and wellbeing. I mentioned it to a friend who was a special constable at the time and she also said I had done the right thing.

[AgentZigzag]

'I don't understand why you're posting about it. What's the point?'

I've been thinking on this, and it's to try and get my head round what happened.

I was questioning the reactions of the other people there before I posted, and now the thread has made me question my own reactions. I had thought about my role in it before posting, but I was convinced I had a legitimate reason for not acting.

Maybe I was wrong in believing that, but it was all on autopiolot with no time to think and I can't go back and change what I did.

That's what I was trying to get at in the OP, why they were the peoples first reaction.

[AyeRobot]

Going back to your questions:

What does her not seeing the point of calling the police say? Whether it's because it's happened before and her telling them was useless, or whether she didn't think they could do anything to protect her, both lead to the police not being able to effectively deal with these types of crime

Quite. It also might say that she didn't want to get over-involved, be a witness etc. Or, in other words, be a good citizen. Or maybe, because violence by men against women is a bit of an occupational hazard and it's her own fault if it's happened before etc etc.

Also, why did the neighbour wonder whether she'd be justified in ignoring the crime, weighing up whether it was any of her business? If it were an older person being punched to the extent this woman was she wouldn't have hesitated in calling them. Could the way it happened not being how some people see as a 'typical' DV incident (i.e. at night, inside etc) have skewed the neighbours judgement of what to do and made her question herself?

See above. DV is ignored by others, full stop. If there were more witnesses who would come forward, there would be more convictions. There is a bizarre mindset going on that we have to look out for ourselves and that we must "take responsibility" so that anything that happens to us is somehow partially our own fault and why should anyone else get involved in clearing up our messes.

Or not. I dunno. Lots of people are arsebadgers. I stil don't get why you did nothing. Did you talk to the woman? Catch her eye? Turn the pram away so your daughter couldn't see her and ask if there was anything you could do?

[FallenCaryatid]

Why are you being so negative towards a woman who didn't feel able or strong enough to act when she saw the consequences of what she assumed was DV?
She was shocked and upset and worried for4 her daughter. The responsibility for what happened lies solely with the aggressor.
Would you blame the victim if she returns to the man who may be beating her?

[AgentZigzag]

X-posts nyac, you're right I could have called from round the corner, but I honestly thought it was more than just people standing round looking at the woman, they were interacting with her.

The amount of significant things packed into such a small amount of time was unbelieveable, it's the reason why I didn't go round the corner and call them that's the key to people reporting and others making the choice not to.

[Nyac]

The OP isn't a victim here. Please don't compare her to a victim of domestic violence who has no choices. Victims don't generally "return" to their abusers by the way, they are targeted by them.

Everybody has a duty to act to help female victims of men's violence if they can. A telephone call even for an ambulance out of earshot does not put anybody in danger. You don't need to be strong to do it, you just need to do it.

[AyeRobot]

Who, me?

I totally understand not hanging around because she had her daughter with her. Just curious as to why that was the end of the matter for ZigZag.

[kingbeat23]

I used to work nights and one night I came home from work and ended up at Finsbury Park Station. I was waiting for my bus and a prostitute was having an arguement with her pimp. He started beating the living shit out of her and noone did a thing.

I asked people to call the police, but noone wanted to know. I asked the station master in the ticket office to call the police but he just shrugged his shoulders and said "she's a prostitute". So I called them.

I saw people on their way to work walking past and not batting an eyelid, I saw people at the bus stop not making a move.

So I called the police. Prostitute or not, that woman is a person and shouldn't be treated like that just because of her job or her lifestyle. I don't know what happened after that but I felt a bit better knowing that I did not have to stand back and watch as others had.