2.9 yr old. Doesn't speak at home but apparently does at nursery?

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

I have been debating whether to write this all night as its weighing very heavily on my mind.

Ds is 2.9, doesn't say any words apart from dada (not in context) Has very recently started to say 'uhoh' if he drops something. And 'tweet tweet' (more of a high pitched squeal) when he picks one of the Xmas decorations up.

He has his first speech therapy lesson in Jan after his assessment last June.

Hv saw us three months ago and said she was referring to paediatrician.

One of the nursery workers mentioned to me the other day that she had spoken to the Hv and she told the nursery worker she has decided not to refer him now and they apparently discussed how much he had come on at nursery.

I was puzzled by this as I don't feel like he had made hardly any progress. I spoke to his key worker and another member of staff and they both said he had been speaking.

After asking exactly what he says his key worker said he had been saying 'doggy', repeating words after her and she had heard the tail end of him taking to other children. The iPad footage she had of him has been deleted.

I get the feeling they are not intentionally lying but I feel very strongly that he hasn't been talking at all.

I don't even know what I am looking for here, is this common? Is there a reason they would say everything's fine, ringing Hv to tell her how much progress he has made? Is it me losing my marbles?

[LimitedSedition]

Might it be because you instinctively know what he needs/wants so he feels less need to communicate with you through speech? I've had 3 with speech delay and each time been 'told off' by the speech therapist for pre empting wants, needs and requests. On the other hand, nursery may be a little over keen to, shall we say, positively evaluate his progress in order to get some progress charted. Hug to you, it's frustrating

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Thanks for replying, no I don't feel it's that. You can see the sheer frustration when he wants something but can't say what. He gets my hand and tries to lead me but it could be allsorts.

He also doesn't understand a lot eg. Where's daddy? He doesn't look for his dad. Or 'let's get yours shoes!' He doesn't know what I mean.

He's never nodded or shook his head or said yes or no.

Just from these I feel like it's quite obvious that he's much much below par on language and communication but they are adamant there's nothing to worry about. It makes me feel like they think I'm making it up which is upsetting.

He has had 2 hearing tests which he passed but has a bit of pressure in his middle ear so the dr said its best to put grommets in incase it helps just a tiny bit and she also referred him to a paediatrician herself.

I just feel very frustrated at the minute, Hv is due a visit on Wednesday so I'm looking forward to her opinion. And what her reasons were for not referring after telling me was going to.

[Youarentkiddingme]

Tell the HV that you disagree with them cancelling the speech therapy because of something someone unqualified said (key worker). Tell her you love with Jim and see him most and it goes beyond just speech and use example above.
Jan is only a few weeks away - unless the HV can tell you by then yiur DS will have caught up then he is still entitled to the sessions.

My bug hate ATM is schools etc who think they can read, judge and decide what your child needs better than the qualified professionals who stated this!

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Sorry I didn't make it clear, apparently the Hv has cancelled the referral to the paediatrician which was mostly to get on track for an autism assessment.

The nursery worker said it was because there was nothing the paed would do that the speech therapist couldn't

[DobbinsVeil]

Are you happy with the nursery in general? Have you spoken to the HV directly? I would be checking out the facts and if the HV really has decided not to refer I would utterly lose my shit calmly escalate a complaint.

FWIW DS1's 1st preschool were frequently too busy to accommodate SALT visits and would overstate his abilities on the phone to them. I removed him and only regretted not doing it sooner.

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

My oldest son went there and it was the perfect environment for him. The women are lovely, they are mostly all older mumsy women and it's very relaxed.

But now my youngest has additional needs I don't feel like they are equipped to deal with it very well. When he turns three I wil be taking him to my older sons school nursery. I feel like they will be more 'on it' there.

I've tried getting in touch with my Hv but keep missing her and have left a couple of messages. She's coming here tomorrow though to check his progress from 3 months ago and I'm looking forward to getting to the bottom of that conversation with nursery! Why not wait and see what she thought of his progress herself? Or ring and ask me?

So frustrating!

I wonder what is the point of overstating the children's abilities? Is it to make them seem better? To undermine you?

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Hv has just rang and is coming this morning instead. Better tidy up

[DobbinsVeil]

The preschool I mentioned was very old-school and I think they took any SALT suggestions to be an attack on how they did things. They much preferred to tell me DS1 was being rude/difficult/awkward than acknowledge he may have communication difficulties. They told the SALT he didn't speak to the adults but chatted away to the other children. This was an out and out lie! (He was dx with ASD). DS1 is now 10 and I still get annoyed about it!

Good luck with the HV, I would go with misunderstanding angle e.g "nursery seem to think his paediatrician appt has been cancelled but as I've not been informed this must be a misunderstanding?". It is possible HV has praised the worker and she has got hold of the wrong end of stick.
Nursery Worker "littlegingerfox is talking loads now! humblebrag humblebrag "
HV "wonderful well done! If littlegingerfox carries on making such progress he won't need to be assessed"

[DobbinsVeil]

I've just seen your GP also did a referral after his hearing test, if the HV has cancelled the appointment I would seriously be questioning her authority to over-rule a G.P.!

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Thanks have quickly read replies, chucking a bit of make up on and running brush through my hair so I don't look like a cave woman. Have been feeling very emotional since speaking to his nursery workers yesterday, have got a feeling I'm not going to be able to hold tears back when she's here.

Will update when she leaves.

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

So Hv has just left. She didn't put the referral in for the paed in the first place, I can't actually remember why now.

Nursery have spoke to her twice and she said they reassured her that he has been making fantastic progress, I'm happy with his progress and glad he didn't need the paed referral (apparantly!)

She was flabbergasted at why they would have said that after seeing him today, she seemed quite angry. She has referred to portage and is glad hosp dr referred to paed last week.

She thinks it's a good idea to move him to the school nursery when he turns three as they can start to put measures into place and says she will only have contact with me in future.

What a piss about all this is!

[ouryve]

How convenient that it's been deleted.

At 2.9 he should be doing a lot more than just repeating words and he should be talking across multiple settings. How does nursery get to decide that he no longer gets speech therapy, with no evidence to show you or anyone else? Has the SALT seen this evidence so they can re-evaluate?

I think you need to speak to the SALT concerned.

[ouryve]

And I cross posted with your catch up!

Nursery sound like lying liars.

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Sorry I worded it not very well, he got a salt appt on Friday for January. 8 months after his assessment I'm suprised he has still got that after nursery told me they had phoned them too!

It was the paediatrician that was cancelled.
Luckily the dr at hospital on Friday has put another referral in, God knows how long this will take now.

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Why would the lie though? I can't get my head around why they would go out of their way to say how he is talking when he clearly doesn't?

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

They*

[DobbinsVeil]

Lying could be:
Denying there is a potential issue means they don't have to anything.
Or
They think "mum" is being over-anxious or is to blame and want to prove her wrong.
Or
As a well-meant reassurance - don't want you to worry
Or
Falling for the wrongformation about speech development anecdotes boys talk later/cousin Bert's step-grand niece's neighbour's step-son-in-law didn't speak until he was 4 but became master of the world by 9.
I've experienced all of the above across a range of people in the early years of DS1's dx.

Have you spoke to the school nursery in detail about your DS2? How much notice do you need to give the current setting?

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

I feel like they do think it's me been over anxious and that the atmosphere at nursery must be 'bringing him out of his shell'

I have only spoke to the receptionist about ds2 and she reassured me there is someone there very qualified in the area and all issues (I can't think of a better word!) are taken seriously.
When I take the form back, I will ask if i can speak to someone in more detail.

Not sure about notice at his current nursery, he only does his 15 free hours, he will be starting new nursery after Easter hols so will probably tell them at the end of the term?

[Anomia10]

For what its worth, the head of paediatric speech therapy (a specialist in SLD) told me that DD1's problems at 7, weren't as severe as I thought!

Frequently told by the language unit staff how happy she was in school.

Fast forward to multi-disciplinary assessment by specialist speech and language school, and was told by Head of Therapy (speech therapist and qualified counsellor), that DD1 was one of the most profoundly impaired children she had seen in over 40 years; and that DD1 was in acute distress!

I would always take what teachers, SENCOs and classroom assistants in mainstream schools say about the severity of a child's SEN with a big pinch of salt!

[DobbinsVeil]

Definitely make an appointment to speak to school nursery in depth; I found a good setting made a huge positive difference to DS1 but the shit unsuitable 1 set him back.
Are you going to pull them up on the twaddle they told the HV?

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Thanks again for replies, Anomia even if you know they are wrong it still makes you (well definitely me) question yourself. I was asking ds2s dad, my mil etc if I was wrong. However it's so blindingly obvious that he has no communication at all.

Dobbins, I don't know how to play it. I'm going to talk to them tomorrow and say Hv has been, she agrees with me he hasn't made any progress and he needs further intervention. They will know they was in the wrong and hopefully will keep a closer eye on him. I can expect they will be following him round constantly will the iPad trying to 'catch' him talking.

One of the other workers mentioned to me (who is in the same room as him too) that he doesn't talk to her. When I told her he doesn't speak at all she was really shocked and just thought he didn't talk at nursery.
I couldn't believe she wasn't made aware?!

[DobbinsVeil]

Do you think your son is gaining anything from going there? If he is on the passive side I would be concerned they find it easy to ignore him (this was the case for my DS1). Do they get any funding for him?

I know it's difficult to confront when you're made to feel like you are expecting too much, but if all they are really doing is trying to capture evidence rather than working with him I'd be tempted to remove him if your circumstances allow.

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

Oh I don't know, it was perfect for my older son who is very confident, expressive etc.
The place is very relaxed which is what attracted me to it.

The only other nursery close by was awful, I pulled my oldest out because it was so clinical, staff were really young and all the kids seem to be crying all the time.

I'll talk to them tomorrow, take him to the end of the week and see how it goes. I'm going to sit in one day this week in the kitchen and watch him whilst he doesn't know to see how he is. I'm also going to look at his personal development file to see what has been written about him whilst there.