If your controlling ex got worse after you left did it ever stop?

[AllOfTheCoffee]

I left the father of my 2 daughters around 2 and a half years ago because of his controlling nature.

For the first year things were very much the same. The constant arguments still carried on, the name calling back and forth, his assumption that he could still control what I did, where I went and how I organised my household and my allowing it. It was exhausting and neither of us came out it smelling of roses.

In the end I realised that one of us needed to just stop. Unfortunately this made him worse.

He'd do things such as try to find out my LL's details so he could make complaints about things he thought were issues in my house. He'd phone the school regularly to check that their lunch money had been paid on time, they'd been handing in homework and they were punctual.

I ignored all of this and any texts or messages that were not directly related to the children's welfare or contact. The messages became more frequent and more abusive, so I changed my number. He can only contact me quickly and directly via Facebook messenger and I set it so that he can only do so when he has the children with him. All other contact is via email or a third party.

He's now started to involve the children, who are 7 and 13 years old.

Two weeks ago he asked if we could meet so he could discuss dd1. When we met he went on an hour long tirade, telling me that dd1 had confided in him that she is being bullied at school because of my house, my dress sense and my job. He suggested that I move, look for a new job, get my hair done, lose weight and buy new clothes. I don't believe dd1 said any of this and did not raise the issue with her.

This weekend dd2 was invited to her cousin's party at his brothers house. She was to be picked up from his house and would be spending the night at his brothers.

3 times she was sent back to me because she was wearing or had packed something he didn't like. The third time she was in tears and it takes a lot to upset dd2. I told her not to go back and contacted ex-BIL to ask him to collect dd2 from my house.

The children have also told me that he's imposed a dress code on contact now. They must arrive freshly showered, with neatly styled hair. Clothes must be freshly washed, ironed and must be matching, with co-ordinating shoes or trainers. School shoes must not worn unless they are on their way to school. Hand me downs are not permitted to be worn at his house. Clothes must appear new and tights are not to be worn with anything other than skirts or dresses. Pjs must be matching, with slippers.

If they break these rules they'll be sent home, although this is all from the mouth of babes so they could have misunderstood. He's never told me of any such rules.

I don't know where to go from here. I'm tempted to just continue to ignore it and hope that he gets bored.

[nameschanger]

I didn't have kids with my ex, but my experience was he got worse until he met someone else and that took about a year.

I suggest you continue as you are and do not give him power. I feel awful for your children it must be horrible for them. What a shame.

[AnyFucker]

Stop sending your daughters to his abuse. What are you thinking ? If they get sent home, keep them home.

Do you rely on him for childcare ? Rearrange that, pronto.

Your daughters are getting to the age where they can decide of they wish to spend time in his dubious company. What do they think ?

[AllOfTheCoffee]

Dd2 adores him. Dd1 seems to be totally indifferent to him, but she is 13, she's indifferent to almost anyone who is not giving her clothes or money.

I don't rely on him for childcare. He has the children overnight, twice a week, but I work during the day, so it doesn't matter if he sends them home.

I had planned on keeping them home the next time he sends them back.

I thought about cutting his contact altogether but I know he would take me to court for access and win, so it would be nothing more than unnecessary stress.

[AnyFucker]

I wouldn't expose my daughters to that control and manipulation. What it did to you, will be a thousand fold to them.

I'd let him take me to court.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Do not ignore this. Controlling men make for being very charming and dangerous individuals.

How is contact currently arranged?. If this is an informal arrangement this must cease forthwith. They are being emotionally harmed by him.

Now he has lost direct control of you he will and has now started on his children. This was going to happen in any case. Controlling men never let go of their victims at all easily and you need to protect them further from his malign influences.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I thought about cutting his contact altogether but I know he would take me to court for access and win, so it would be nothing more than unnecessary stress".

You do not know that he would win. Have you ever sought legal advice on this matter?.

It seems that you have an informal agreement with him; it was never going to end well.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what do you think they are learning here?. I sincerely hope that your youngest child in particular does not end up with a controlling man herself in adulthood. Your children and by turn you are being controlled still by him.

TBH I would stop all contact and let him take you to court if he wants to.

Womens Aid may well be worth speaking to now on 0808 2000 247.

[Asteria36]

I would not be comfortable with my children being exposed to this sort of behaviour. You really need to contact their father and ask him to verify what is being said - get him to email you all of his "rules" so that you can be clear what he is asking. Don't be confrontational, just something along the lines of "the girls say that you have some new rules, could you let me know what they are so I can help them stick within our wishes".
Once you have had chance to see exactly what is going on you need to work out what to do next. Do you have an official contact order? Things like this can be hi lighted within a CO and having a court telling him to wind his neck in takes it all out of your hands. I really would consider wether this is a healthy relationship for your children to maintain.

[Asteria36]

If you think that he would take you to court if you cut contact, could you not just limit it anyway? Let him take the expense of court - he will not get the joyous outcome he thinks. The courts may be a bit feeble at times, but they are not idiots and you are well within your rights to restrict or withhold access if you are concerned about emotional abuse (which is what this is)

[AllOfTheCoffee]

Yes, it's an informal arrangement.

I'd always thought that courts favoured a relationship with both parents, so just assumed that he'd win access or shared custody, he has always told me that if I do anything to rock the boat, he'll go for full custody and is convinced that he'll win, but I don't believe this. I can't really afford legal advise but I know a few places who give the first 30 minutes free, so will look into that.

I don't think it's a healthy relationship for them at all and I do want it to stop I just don't want to do anything that would make it worse for them.

What would happen if he took it to court?

I will email him now and ask about the rules, I was just going to ignore that and had told the children to do the same, but getting it in black and white from him would be a good idea.

[DiscoDiva70]

First of all, I would speak to him and ask if he has made up these pathetic rules, which he probably has.
I would also keep a diary of everything regarding access, but don't force your children to go if they don't want to and/or if he upsets them then stop contact.

[roamer2]

I don't think you should just submit to his rules about what clothes they should turn up in. If he does not like the clothes they arrive in he can buy them some clothes for them to wear at his house. His house his rules (as long as kids are save), your house your rules.

[roamer2]

sorry mean safe not save

[DiscoDiva70]

If he takes you to Court then Cafcass usually become involved, they will speak to your children and you and your ex, then they'll write a report to the Court with their recommendations regarding access.

My advice is to be very prepared for the Court as your ex will highly likely paint you to be a crap mum etc and he the model father. As in my last post, document everything.

[miaowroar]

I agree with the PP who suggested emailing him for confirmation of these rules. Once you have them in writing from him, then at least you have evidence of his fuckwittery. Otherwise he will have to say that there are no such rules.

Could you not email him when he sends one of them home "DD has just told me you have sent her home because her pyjamas don't match. Is this true?"

Maybe that's not practical, but I am just thinking of some sort of paper trail of evidence in case it does end up in court.

[DiscoDiva70]

Ps, I'm speaking from experience. My ex is a complete and utter wanker not the most caring and involved dad in the world but he put on an Oscar winning performance in Court to make himself look like the hard done to one!

[miaowroar]

Oh - forgot to add that in your position I would feel like sending them with wildly clashing clothes, odd socks, odd jimjams and school shoes just to wind him up.

Another thing - I would also ask him to confirm in writing about the alleged reasons for DD's alleged bullying.

And yes, the first time he sent one home I would just keep them there - "Sorry XP - I don't have matching pyjamas and as this is evidently more important to you than having contact with your daughter, she may as well stay here."

I am such a know-it-all aren't I?

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I'd always thought that courts favoured a relationship with both parents, so just assumed that he'd win access or shared custody, he has always told me that if I do anything to rock the boat, he'll go for full custody and is convinced that he'll win, but I don't believe this".

Good for not believing this now. Seek legal advice asap, also knowledge is power.

Divorcing this person was never going to end the power and control he still wants to exert. Now he has not direct control over you he is more than happy to try and control his children instead. Also by doing this he sees this as getting back at you as punishment for having the gall to leave him.

Controlling men can and will say any old bullshit and bullying tactics to keep their victims (in this case you and your children equally) in line. They do this because it works; that threat of his has kept you in line until now.

He has never had the childrens welfare paramount in his mind; the need to have absolute power and control over his victims is uppermost in his mind instead.

If you have never read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft I would suggest you do so.

[Sighing]

I definitely agree. Get all the fucked up bullshit in writing. It's exactly what I insisted on. And, yes, he did really gradually improve the more I made firm boundaries and stuck to my decisions/ outcomes.
I still keep a record of every 'fail' to access (including if i mess up a time). Just on case. Sometimes the facts come into their own, I don't get dragged into conversations with him and avoid discussing access in front of the DC's (easy to forget). It's all on paper.

[AllOfTheCoffee]

Oh - forgot to add that in your position I would feel like sending them with wildly clashing clothes, odd socks, odd jimjams and school shoes just to wind him up.

Dd2 does this anyway, she has a very unique dress sense and often falls in love with particular items of clothing, atm this is a 10ry old hoody, she stole from her granny, her new school shoes and some minion tights, that she wears with everything.

All of his new rules seem to be aimed at dd2. She is who she is, I'll be the first to admit that she often looks like's dressed in the dark, but she is 7 and it makes her happy. She wears school uniform happily and will dress up appropriately for special occasions, but this was a sleep over with her cousin at her uncle's house, not a meeting with the Queen.

Her Uncle, to his credit, was very good about it all and told dd2, after she'd told him what had happened that she looked just like a little girl her age should look.

I will start documenting everything and asking for him to confirm things in writing.

I wouldn't be concerned about Cafcass, despite what he tells me I know I'm a good parent. My children are clean, happy, well fed and loved. I'm not perfect by any means, but I'm good enough and we are happy.

I'll phone a solicitor later and make an appointment.

I've heard of that book and keep meaning to buy it, I will make a point to do so tomorrow when I get paid.

[PuellaEstCornelia]

also, your eldest child will certainly be asked what she feels about contact, and they will take account of the little one's feelings hould it get the length of court.

[springalong]

Mine escalated his behaviour - we are now 4 years in. The judge seems to be believe that it is 2 adults who don't get on. I am sacking my legal team as their advice was to appease all the time. I have CAFCASS coming tomorrow - they only want to talk about DC, but surely these men's behaviour is so damaging to all the family. I can only keep this away from my DC for so long. My understanding was that unless there was documented (by the police) violence in the last 2 years no one will take these accusations of abuse seriously. I am very bothered - I actually said to someone this morning that I truly only believe that my situation will end with his death or mine. My situation has worsened since my ex moved in with his partner and formalised their relationship. Some of the recent correspondence includes how the DC should use pocket money, his expectations as to what should happen to old, used clothing that he (and his family, partner etc) purchased, how he will communicate with me (the fact that I have chosen a separate email - that offends him). All done by legal letters from solicitors and now I have another court date on a financial matter. So some go away but others don't and the family courts are not dealing with this properly.

[AllOfTheCoffee]

He replied to my email, at first he denied all knowledge, when I asked him to confirm that there was no dress code for contact he replied to say that he had requested only that they arrive clean and dressed in clean clothes.

They were dressed in clean clothes at the weekend, dd2 was slightly mismatched but not horrendously so and by her usual standards had done quite well.

I politely reminded him of a previous agreement we have that he buys and keeps whatever clothing he thinks is suitable at his house and return them to me in what I sent them in.

I'm now being bombarded with emails asking if I think it's okay to send them out in dirty clothes and school shoes with tights, which I'm ignoring. I've created an email folder to save all correspondence and have searched through and moved all old emails to this folder.

Photographing them before contact would be going too far wouldn't it? I'm concerned that if it does to court he tells people that I don't dress them in clean clothes or bathe them, surely as they turn up to school clean and well dressed his allegations would be ignored?

[startrek90]

Can't hurt to do that tbh....

[Imgivinguponyou]

In my experience the controlling behaviour got way worse after we separated and went on for several years.

I have been through exactly the same as you re the complaints about the dc's clothes, namely school uniform, coats, shoes and socks.It has died down a bit now but even this weekend the dc's shoes were not appropriate for the planned activity apparently.

Ex even reported me to social services over the dc's clothing and emailed a photo in one complaint. They came to check the dc's uniform, wardrobes and drawers of clothing in their bedrooms. SS even asked me to provide a bag of extra clothes for contact day.

My case did go to court and the judge wiped the floor with him. However it didn't have any bearing on the contact with the dc.

It is really hard especially for the children. I don't really have any advice I'm afraid. Sometimes ex contacts me in advance to say warm clothing required or whatever but I can't do anything right so he will try to catch me out in other ways.

[AllOfTheCoffee]

I'm sorry you're going through this too Imgivingup, but it is comforting to know I'm not the only one.

It should be legal to put these kinds of men out of their misery, for the sake of mankind