Upset by estranged husbands comments on parenthood

[Rocklover]

Hi,

Husband came to visit DD last week and made some comments that upset me very much, opinions would be welcome. For those of you who don't know the history, one of the reasons we split is that I really didn't want to put DD in childcare form 8-6 every day which would have happened if I had worked full time. For those of you who do work FT, please don't be offended, this is only how I feel personally and I believe everyone has to make the right choice for them.

Anyway (phew) husband had visited a friend in London who had relayed him the following story about a brother of his. Basically this guy had split up with his wife who then met someone else and took the kids and moved up the Manchester. The father wanted to be near his kids so much that he left his well paid, "successful" job and moved up to Manchester ro a much lesser job in order to be with his kids (which I though was nice). Apparently, even though he is very loving and affectionate and takes them out alot they think he is a loser and have no respect for him. On the back of this story my husband (looking to comapre me to this guy I suspect) was saying that although love is very important (really???) it is just as vital for the parent to prove thmeselves to be very successful, which is now his goal, or said child will not love and respect parent.

The thing that shocks me is that he believes that this is a normal attitude for kids, I certainly never felt that way about my father, who had a manual job and if DD was ever like that I would feel I had failed as a parent...do kids really value money and position more than love and affection??? I think not! Not only that he was saying (in a very "politician" way) that I lacked goals and ambitions (i.e career) and that if we wanted to get back together we needed to both be looking at how to improve and become successful as a couple (like a fucking business).

Oh and to put the icing on the cake he said that DD would be better off in FT childcare as at the moment not being in any childcare at all could be harming her ( a direct jibe at me, he knows I am desperately looking for PT work so I can get her into a nursery or something for a little time each week).

Basically he is trying to point out that he is father of the year and I am pretty crap, trying to justify and prove that the marriage breakdown was solely down to me (although he would never admit it). I know my situation isn't ideal (now living with parents whilst he has bought new build flat), but DD is surrounded by love and is thriving, he was supposed to visit two evenings a week, which he has yet to manage and have her every other weekend, and thus he cancelled last weekend citing he was busy marking (but managed to pop down to London and skive off school on Monday).

Sorry for the epic but I am very angry and upset and really feel he is trying to undermine my abilities as a mother.

[Rocklover]

Bump, bump lol.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Poor you - he sounds alarmingly crap. How can he be a great dad when he can't even be bothered to be there?

Are you thinking of getting back together with him? Have you considered couples counselling? It can help give you a "good" split, which is essential with your DD in the picture ...

[Bugsy2]

Just take a deep breath & try not to let it get to you. My ex-H likes to do this too. It is just their way of trying to undermine you. As long as you feel confident about what you do, ignore the rubbish that spouts out of his mouth. He is angry & just trying to have a go.
Sympathy to you. I've ranted on here so many times about similar stuff!

[BudaBeast]

Another worrying issue is that he is a teacher (is that right?). Hope he is not passing that attitude on to his pupils.

[lemonaid]

Oh, what twaddle he's talking (and I work FT with DS in childcare so I'm coming at it from a different angle from you).

If what your H told you that his friend said that his brother said is correct (and let's face it, with a Chinese Whispers chain that long what are the chances of fully communicationg the subtleties of human relationships? Diddly squat, that's what) then the attitude of the children is far more likely to reflect their mother's lack of respect for him than be related to his career choices.

So a more productive use of your H's time and energy, if he wants your DD's respect, would be to try to make sure that you don't think he's a git. He doesn't seem to be doing very well on that so far...

You are not harming your DD by not having her in childcare. She might enjoy nursery for a bit each week if and when you can get that in place, but you're not blighting her little life by not giving it to her. She has what she needs with you.

[Dior]

Message withdrawn

[sunnysideup]

Well done for sticking so much to your guns about how you want to bring up your dd; I agree with you in that I wouldn't have put DS in childcare from 8am to 6pm either.

I am sure your DD is thriving and blossoming with your love and attention and your instincts are right, at the moment this is all she needs and wants. What on earth is the world coming to that your DH can even think that NOT being in childcare may be HARMING your child??? WTF???

I say stick to your guns on that, and I agree that child centred mediation could be invaluable, though tbh I think your DH has a road to travel before he is genuinely able to look at life from your DD's point of view rather than his own .

I do actually agree that older children can and do take pride in their parent's achievements; I was proud of my parents for being intelligent people and having what I felt were important jobs, and my dad is a brilliant musician and I was proud of him....it's good to be able to feel proud of your parents but I tell you what the MAIN thing I felt proud of was that we were a close and loving family and that my mum and dad enjoyed spending time with me. That was better than anything.

And I'm talking 6 or 7 year olds here; I think you need to carry on as you are now!

[Lasvegas]

My dad had a manual job and it never bothered me. But I suppose as a teenager I would have preferred it if I could have had more spending money, which I guess would have been more likely if he had had a 'better' career and my mother didn't give up her good career to have kids. But I cannot replicate the childhood I had, as I am raising a child in a geographic area where I believe we have no choice but to educate privately and where property in a safe area equals a mortage of £3,000 a month. Hence DH and I have no choice but to stay on the career ladder. It is unrealistic in many families to simply say money doesn't matter. Money to a certain extent buys security. I would sooner have a career and the benefit of life assurance so that if I died DD would be provided for.

My x husband told me that babies were better off being taken care of my professionals rather than by their parents. I tell you as an example of the crap men come out with when they are in the throws of separation.

[LucyLemon]

Hi Rocklover,
Your h sounds like a similar character to my ex-h.
He didn't see any problem with our two dd's being brought up by two part-time nannies (we lived overseas) whilst I worked a long day. He used to badger me to keep a nanny on over the weekend too and would go nuts when I refused. This was a battle a few times a month. We used to go out when the girls were in bed but he wanted childcare during the day on a Sat and sun as well...ridiculous.
He was also very businessminded and treated the relationship as such, he thought that and career and economic success in turn meant a successful marriage and family.

Anyway, so I eventually left him (we just didn't gte on in the end) and have a been a single mother on benefits for a year and a half now - God, hate that description of myself but anyway....My girls are the happiest little monkeys and I am so much happier. I am doing a part-time degree and look forward to starting part-time work when my youngest is at school. I feel bad about being fairly poor and a 'sponger' but I am trying to secure a good future for us by studying. Bringing up children to be good and useful members of society is an important job and one that our government constantly overlooks.

It doesn't sound like you can change how your husband thinks. Some people just don't get it and are so mis-guided. I have accepted that some people are not meant to be together. Don't let him make you feel like an under-achiever.

[LucyLemon]

Hi Rocklover,
Your h sounds like a similar character to my ex-h.
He didn't see any problem with our two dd's being brought up by two part-time nannies (we lived overseas) whilst I worked a long day. He used to badger me to keep a nanny on over the weekend too and would go nuts when I refused. This was a battle a few times a month. We used to go out when the girls were in bed but he wanted childcare during the day on a Sat and sun as well...ridiculous.
He was also very businessminded and treated the relationship as such, he thought that and career and economic success in turn meant a successful marriage and family.

Anyway, so I eventually left him (we just didn't get on in the end) and have a been a single mother on benefits for a year and a half now - God, hate that description of myself but anyway....My girls are the happiest little monkeys and I am so much happier. I am doing a part-time degree and look forward to starting part-time work when my youngest is at school. I feel bad about being fairly poor and a 'sponger' but I am trying to secure a good future for us by studying. Bringing up children to be good and useful members of society is an important job and one that our government constantly overlooks.

It doesn't sound like you can change how your husband thinks. Some people just don't get it and are very mis-guided. Don't let him make you feel like an under-achiever.

[ratclare]

how old is your DD? because from the sounds of it he is probably about the same age mentally . He is obviousley quoting yet another poorly researched piece of lets get at women twaddle . He is allegedly an intelligent individual so ask him what his grounds are for saying this ( about fulltime childcare) but get him to go into detail, what size was the study ,who funded it etc and see his argumet crumble . Im not anti working mums by the way ,nor sahm's just anti crap research and the media who cherry pick the sensationalist bits,there rant over . You just want what you believe is the best for your dd ,he sounds like he just wants the cash ,arsehole

[UCM]

He sounds like he has some issues really. As said before, as long as you are confident in your own actions, I would ignore him. He will learn when you kids grow up that love & respect comes from the type of person you are, not whether you are Richard Branson or not.

[sunnysideup]

lucy, I am sooooo shocked at your DH wanting to basically do NONE of the parenting of his own kids!!!

Well done for coping on your own, and I am not at all surprised that things worked out that way! At least this way you get to parent WELL and your DH gets his wish to do pretty much none of the parenting...

He must have been a gentleman in victorian times with a housefull of staff and nice clean children brought to him once a day at bedtime (if he wasn't dining at the club, that is)

[sunnysideup]

in another life, I mean...

[LucyLemon]

SSU
Pah! Gentleman? If only he was! He's actually a diplomat which would conjure up images of a gentleman I should imagine. Swap that for selfish, balding, pudgy mean git.
He would miss his clean children being brought to him because he was too busy at the flamin' golf club! Ooh, that all just came tumbling out then! Please note, I am not bitter

We haven't heard from him for over 18 months now. Bliss! My three year old doesn't remember him so I have left it at that for now. Don't even start me on maintenance....

Having said that, I want nothing from him and enjoy my liberation.

Yay for the (sort of) independent women!

[sunnysideup]

Lucy, that really doesn't surprise me that he isn't in touch with his kids...from your post, he really sounds like a man who basically didn't want to do any work on parenting at all.

So sad that your girls don't have a dad who would add all the lovely things that a loving and involved dad CAN bring to children's upbringings....

but at least they have you!! good for you!

[LucyLemon]

Ah, but I have a lovely scrummy boyfriend now!
He is wonderful with them and they love him. He has more of a 'favourite uncle' relationship with them so things like discipline are still my domain but I think that's actually easier in some respects - no clashing over different ideas.

We've been together over a year and all the signs are good...have learnt so many lessons from the past 6 years and we're both very aware of what we expect from one another.
It's just a shame for the girls that their daddy wasn't a nicer man.

[doggiesayswoof]

He is the loser. I feel sorry for him if he really believes that s**te. Your dd has you - a great mum by the sounds of it - and that's all she needs. (BTW, my dd is in f/t childcare and it works for us, but all parents have to do what's right for their families and that's exactly what you are trying to do).

Ask him this: where have all the successful people of the last few generations come from? There was no full-time childcare when they were small, and they weren't 'damaged' by not having it.

[tribpot]

My dad is very successful; I have zero respect for him, because he is a crap dad.

My step-dad is also very successful; I have masses of respect and love for him, because he has always been devoted to his family and completely 'been there' even though he worked long hours during the week.

You know your instincts are right and he talking a load of arse.

[Rocklover]

Thanks so much for all your replies, I know that I should just ignore it, but sometimes it's hard. Yes I still do feel guilty for not getting FT work as we had to sell the house, however I KNOW that I have done the right thing for my baby.

Even now (I laugh as I write this) husband says if DD and I moved in with him then I would have to get a FT job as there would not be enough money, despite the fact he pays the mortgage and me £200 a month without too much of a problem. Don't get me wrong I do want to work (miss it actually) and I am looking forward to getting a PT job, I just feel that he is obsessed with this image of economic security = happy families.

LucyLemon, I am also looking to go to uni when DD starts school, until then I want to enjoy her as much as I can as I honestly don't know whether I will be able to have another (32 already lol and not ready for another big relationship by a long way).

Thanks all so much for making me feel better! Splitting from him has made me realise that we are sooo different we are just not compatible, so no, I will not be getting back with him EVER and no amount of counselling will change my mind.

[slug]

I think it's a fairly typical attitude amongst some men. When dh announced he was abandoning his career to become a full time father, the response from some of his friends was something akin to the sound of tumbleweed blowing through. They just couldn't concieve of how a man could do that and retain his self respect. However, one by one, as they have children themselves, they are gradually coming round to his way of thinking. the ones who haven't were probably not true friends to start with.

As to dd not respecting her father because he doesn't bring in an income? What tosh. She is greatly admired by many of her classmates because her daddy collects her from school. It's a bit of a novelty, expecially for those who have minimal or no contact with their fathers. She is, in fact, very proud of him because he does things that other fathers don't do. (Like cooking and nappy changing).

What child prefers the trapings of an income to the avaliability of a cuddle on demand? It's a no brainer.

[Rocklover]

I totally agree, but was hoping to stay civil. Thing is he doesn't even seem to be aware that his comments are negative....I am sure he thinks he is being helpful in someway by pointing out how useless I am!!! Exs!