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to not want bil to hold DD tightly and not let go?

(121 Posts)
littlemisssarcastic Fri 08-Feb-13 23:17:12

I don't know how you would describe it, apart from to say every time he sees DD, he gets hold of her, puts his arms around her and holds onto her tightly, usually whilst saying something like 'You can't get out of this can you DD! Go on, try to get out of this then!'

I cannot leave them in the same room together, because it seems as soon as they are alone, it starts again. I'm sure DD can't be enjoying it??

I have asked him to put her down, said she doesn't like it, even physically taken DD from him, and tbh, there have been a few times when he has held on even as I am pulling DD out of his vice like grip.

Sometimes, he doesn't take any notice and just says 'She likes it.'

Perhaps it is the grimace on his face as he is holding her that makes me very uncomfortable about the whole thing.

I have tried speaking to my family about it, and don't go round bil's much anyway, but family's response is to say it doesn't happen when they are there, (oh yes it does) and then to be very sarcastic about it and say 'Well don't go to bil's house then?' meaning I would hardly ever see my sister.

I try to go when bil is at work, but since he works very irregular hours, and doesn't have regular days/hours he works, it is difficult to keep track.

Lueji Sun 10-Feb-13 07:37:23

Maybe we, as people, are programmed not to see our own faults though??

Not all, but some, IYKWIM.

Throwing a child across a room would deserve a call to the police.

With DD, you need to look BIL in his eyes and tell him in a firm voice that he is not to touch your DD ever again. At any attempt to argue back, just say "ever again".

I wonder what you actually get from your family. The way they are toxic, it probably worsens your own problems.
Being away from them would probably make you more confident in yourself.

gimmecakeandcandy Sat 09-Feb-13 23:28:31

I am so sad for your dd that she has to put up with this, that - I'm sorry this will sound harsh - you let her go though this by allowing this behaviour from your bil.

HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 09-Feb-13 20:58:00

Evening. The OP's asked us to move this thread to Relationships, so we're going to do that for her now.

Chottie Sat 09-Feb-13 20:56:24

Just to say, dig deep and stay strong. Your feelings as a mother are right, BiL's behaviour is out of order. Please do what you have to for your DD. Break the cycle x.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 09-Feb-13 20:49:19

I can understand some of why I ended up in an abusive relationship now.
When I stood back and looked at how my ex treated me, the similarities to how my mother has treated me all these years are staggering!!!
In fact, my mother had actually betrayed me in exactly the same ways that xp later did, and mother carried out many of these betrayals before I even met xp.

My mother points out xp's faults but fails to see her own. Maybe we, as people, are programmed not to see our own faults though??

I will ask for this to be moved to relationships. Thanks again.

alcibiades Sat 09-Feb-13 20:27:49

Oh, littlemiss, I feel so very sad on your behalf - your family really have done a number on you, haven't they? All their supposed "kindness" and "support" really isn't that all. It isn't surprising that you ended up with an abusive ex, because your family has taught you to be a "put up and shut up" person. You did very well to make him your ex.

It will take time to disentangle yourself from your family but it can be done, with the right kind of support. I see from a quick glance of other posts you've made here that you are very supportive of others, so you've still managed to retain that kindly and gentle part of you, despite your family.

Maybe the next step for you is to ask MNHQ to move this thread into Relationships. There are many people there who understand toxic families/abusive relationships who could give you advice about how to extricate yourself and your DD from this situation. Some of them may not read AIBU.

In particular, I'm wondering about Women's Aid or similar organisations who can give you the proper kindness and support you deserve, and help you make that move (emotional/geographical) to a better life for you and your DD.

countrykitten Sat 09-Feb-13 20:00:45

God he sounds creepy. Your poor daughter. You must stand up to him and damn well make scene for her sake. Forget the niceties, he is wrong and it is inappropriate in many ways.

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 09-Feb-13 18:30:46

It is very difficult. But not impossibly difficult, you can do it.

I Hope you turn that anger where it belongs. Yes, you can say you 'let' it happen, but this is the family you grew up in, it's hard to work this stuff out from the inside. But it was not you who actually did it. Your BIL, DS, Mum are responsible for their actions.

I really hope you work your way away from this dynamic.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 09-Feb-13 14:09:09

It is one of my biggest regrets that I didn't stand up for DS more. To the poster who said my anger gives them hope, I am not angry. I am furious!! At myself mainly for letting this happen.
As pagwatch said, it is very very difficult though.
Thank you for all of your support.

zwischenzug Sat 09-Feb-13 13:42:18

It's one thing being a "walkover" yourself as you put it, but when it comes to your children that just isn't good enough.

If you allow your BIL to carry on with borderline paedophilic behaviour towards your daughter you are failing as a parent.

lovetomoan Sat 09-Feb-13 13:39:57

You can be 'the walkover' in your family if you like, but your DD doesn't have to be.
You must defend your DD. Your BIL is an asshole.

Pagwatch Sat 09-Feb-13 13:32:19

LMS
I also thinkthat if the behaviour is accepted by everyone and as been going on forever it becomes normal. And suddenly forcing a change is incredibly difficult.

I changed things by just withdrawing when I felt they crossed a line - no explaining or arguing, nothing that gave them a chance to tell me patronising things like how I was being silly or over reacting. I would just say 'do you know, I'm off. I will see you another time' and leave.

SmilingHappyBeaver Sat 09-Feb-13 13:28:05

What Bumbiscuits said.

TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.

Keep your daughter away from him.

Morloth Sat 09-Feb-13 13:03:19

Keep your children away from all of these people.

To do otherwise is to be conplicit in their abuse.

What does he have to do to them before you put them first? He has thrown and punched your DS and is forcing himself on your DD?

BigAudioDynamite Sat 09-Feb-13 12:46:21

lms confrontation is much easier if you know someone had your back, huh

I think if you ditch this shower, your confidence will climb and you will most likely attract some kind supportive worthy people into your life

YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue Sat 09-Feb-13 12:28:51

That little angry face at the end of your last post gives me hope, i hope as you are describing a difficult mother, you can see it is not right and it is not about you.

Of course they tell you you can't cope, vulnerable, need help. They're terrified you'll be fine, and then who will they look down on?

It is hard to face up to, but I think inside you know they are in the wrong, not you.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 09-Feb-13 12:25:28

And bumbiscuits That is actually very interesting!

littlemisssarcastic Sat 09-Feb-13 12:25:00

I admire you for doing what you did BigAudio.

I have to go out now, but will be back later.

Thanks for all of the support. I wish everyone was as caring as you people on here. smile
However, I think if you are the type of person to freeze when confronted, then you probably do attract toxic people into your life. That's not an excuse, nor is it scientific grin but it makes sense to me.

BigAudioDynamite Sat 09-Feb-13 12:17:49

Sorry lms I should have read the whole thread blush I see your family don't back you up sad You need to cut him off, and them until they 'get it' angry

BumBiscuits Sat 09-Feb-13 12:13:08

Sorry my point is don't let your fucking idiot of a BIL near your DD.

BumBiscuits Sat 09-Feb-13 12:11:49

They sound awful. I read a pamphlet in the doctors' waiting room the other day 40 min wait was über bored . It was advice about how old kids had to be before going out and about themselves eg walking to school or going to the shops. There was an interesting bit about not forcing kids into letting adults tickle/kiss/hug them when they don't like it. Kids who aren't allowed to have their own mind in these normal family situations ( who can forget screwing up their face and wiping kisses off after a smacker from an elderly relative?) can be more vulnerable to predatory adults when not with parents. It was something I'd never thought of and will not be saying "aw give Granda/uncle/gran/auntie a hug" again when they don't want to.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 09-Feb-13 12:10:19

Blackmail, humiliation, making a scene, ringing schools with various unfounded silly accusations, allegations to SS, screaming 'paedophile' across public places, slagging me off to anyone who will listen, and there's plenty who will.

I have always been the daughter with no common sense, the one who is vulnerable and needs help, the one who can't cope on my own, the inadequate one who gives nothing but worries, the one who thinks she knows best with a massive chip on her shoulder. That's me!! That's how my mother in particular describes me to her few friends and they believe her!!

Mother cannot be trusted, I cannot tell my mother anything without it getting back to my sister, or relayed to her friends. In fact, the minute I hang up after a conversation with my mother, she picks her phone straight back up and rings someone, usually my sister, or if not, her friends and regales them with my latest tale of woe.
To this end, I don't tell my mother anything anymore unless necessary. The result of this is that mother assumes what is going on in my life and relays that as fact instead.

Mother assumes everything, she knows nothing but assumes everything.

Conversations go like this:

Me: I will be over when I have picked up DD from xp's.
When I arrive at mother's...Mother: How did pick up go?
Me: Fine.
Mother: Oh no, what happened?
Me: Nothing, it was fine.
Mother: Only fine?
Me: It was ok, nothing to tell.
Mother: Oh it's just the way you say 'fine' I assume something went wrong.
Me: Nothing went wrong.

Mother then phones sister and tells her that there were problems at pick up, but of course LMS wont talk to me, I don't know why, but can you ask her what happened, I think she is upset.

Sister phones me: What happened at pick up? Mother thinks you are upset.
Me: Nothing happened, everything was fine.
Sister: Well you need to tell mother that because she is worried.

That is how virtually every conversation goes, and mother always always seems to think the worst. If you don't give her verse and chapter, she makes her own version up.
Mother is an extremely negative person, yet if I say anything negative, I am not helping myself getting upset about things, I need to relax. Ha fucking ha. The joke's on me I think. angry

lemmein Sat 09-Feb-13 12:10:04

Lots of people have anxiety but your posts do show you are essentially a strong woman who wants to protect her children.

This ^^

lemmein Sat 09-Feb-13 12:08:36

OP your family is VERY toxic and though you say they help you when you're struggling with anxiety the truth is THEY are causing your anxiety - its a vicious, nasty circle.

About your social anxiety - i suffered with that for years, hardly left the house, used to hid when there was a knock on the door, etc. The only friend i had was from childhood. Im 2 years free from it now, went to college - made some amazing friends. It CAN be beaten. Im only adding this because when i had it i thought it was a lifetime sentence, it really isnt.

Protect your daughter from this man - and your family, its the only way to prevent her from having the same future problems.

BigAudioDynamite Sat 09-Feb-13 12:06:23

Haven't read the whole thread, but my BiL once held into my dd in a way that she coyldnt escape, and the more distressed she got, the harder he held until she cried. He will never do it again. I made it very clear (and loud) that if he touches her again, he will be picking his teeth up off the floor. My sister left in tears. I think they still maintain that I over reacted. I don't give a fuck. I will never have hum with either dc unattended, and my family know this is not to happen under any cicumstances. Follow your instincts and find some rage; unleaded it on him

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