Concerned about sister - engagement stuff

[JosieRosie]

DSis has been with her DP for a couple of years. They have talked about marriage and agreed it's something they both want to do. She wants the big 'surprise' proposal though so as far as she's concerned, they're not engaged until she gets the proposal and the ring.

He told her last Xmas that he would propose before the autumn. Deadline came and went, no proposal. She called him on and it and now he says he will 'definitely' propose by March. He's adamant he does want to get married and from an outside perspective, he does seem to be crazy about her and seems like a decent bloke. She is worried he's getting cold feet about making such a 'grown-up' decision - she may be right. He's 42 by the way

Added to this, she has very fixed expectations about the ring - she's expecting him to spend 3 months salary on a rock (based on what her mates have had for their engagement rings), he was expecting to spend nowhere near this. He works full-time and has some savings but is nowhere near loaded.

Is there anything I can do? Do I tell her she needs to manage her expectations regarding the size and cost of the ring she can expect? Or do I hold my tongue and go along with it? I really would like this to work out for both of them and I think they are a great couple in many ways but I'm worried that both of them are getting very stressed out by something which should be a happy experience

[fuzzynavel]

Poor bloke. He's probably feeling rather pressurised and couldn't propose when she wanted due to lack of ring funds.

[AMumInScotland]

I think she needs to think carefully about what all this is about. Does she want a marriage? Or does she want a big ring and a big proposal and a big wedding day?

If she's set her heart on something he isn't in a position to provide, then I think she needs to weigh up whether she wants him, the real him, or some romantic story-book ideal version.

Marriage is about spending your life together. "Getting engaged" isn't always about that.

[PontyMython]

3 months salary on the ring?!

Maybe he's worried that she's more interested in getting a bit of jewellery to show off than she is in spending her life with him?

[buzzswellington]

She sounds a bit mercenary and as though it's all about keeping up with her friends. Bridezilla in the making?

Perhaps it would be a good idea to suggest that she should trim her sails to what they can afford.

[Angelswings]

DH spent 3 months on mine, but only because he was on £25 a week and his dads mum gave him the money :)

Why does she want to get married? Is it to have the wedding or to actualy spend the rest of her life with him

[glastocat]

Three months salary. Fucking hell. Is that a new thing? Poor bloke!

[Angelswings]

See Ponty had already posted that

[TheLastChocolate]

Angelswings your post made me laugh!

DH bought my engagement ring with a portion of his student loan, and I still am totally in love with what the ring signifies and still head over heels in love with DH almost 11 years later.

OP - does your sister spend a lot of time reading celebrity mags, perchance? Does she think she is J-Lo or some other glamour girl?

I think 3 months salary on a ring is taking the mick a bit... some people don't spend that on their entire wedding.

You said your sister's boyfriend is in his 40s, is she also in her 40s? Is this her first serious relationship?

[JosieRosie]

I was at 3 month salary too. I am missing the bride gene and don't know about these things so I asked some colleagues and apparently 3 months is not unheard of at all. As a feminist, this makes me and and all at once but I know people have very set ideas about these things and it is her life.

I spoke to my DP about this and he said if he were in this bloke's position, he would seriously consider chucking her. He would worry that if he's now being dictated to about how much £££ to spend on the ring, what would he be dictated to about next??? I can see his POV completely!

DSis' partner is a ditherer, always has been, and I think she's very insecure about the relationship. They were together first for 2 years, then split up for 5 years, now back again for the past 2 years. I think she wants the proposal and the ring as 'proof' that the relationship is solid. Which is really quite worrying in itself

[JosieRosie]

TheLastChocolate, she does have some J-Lo tendencies! She's 30 and no, it's not her first relationship.

I think it's utterly insane too but I think she's very influenced by friends and colleagues who have got engaged/married in the last couple of years, they all sound very materialistic. Her BF got engaged last weekend so that has upped the ante a bit.

[OldLadyKnowsSantaClaus]

3months?!!! I had heard of 1 month, which in itself is fucking ludicrous, but 3 is beyond madness. Mine cost £65 in a sale, the stone fell out within a couple of years, but I'm still happilly married nearly 30 years later. She really needs to rethink her priorities.

Mind you, so does he.

[AMumInScotland]

The "3 months salary" thing is one of those "traditions" which was almost certainly made up by jewellers. It is something that gets commonly said. But most people don't do it.

I guess she wants proof that he's serious. But making him spend any amount of money isn't actually going to convince her, if she has serious doubts about the relationship.

TBH I really don't think this relationship has a longterm future, as what they want and expect out of it just doesn't match up at all.

[blackteaplease]

Wasn't the 3 month thing created by one of the big diamond houses (Debretts?) to get people to spend big? There's no need for a fancy ring, my SIL to be has a beautiful second hand silver ring with some semi-precious stones in it, it's very her.

It sounds to me like she is pushing him into engagement for her peace of mind. He clearly isn't ready. Perhaps you should have a chat with her, but be prepared for her not to listen!

[JosieRosie]

BTW, I have heard that in the States, it's 6 months salary

[EdithWeston]

yy blackteaplease it was a DeBeers advertising campaign

[Tmesis]

Back when we got engaged the figure of one month's salary was being puffed around and I thought that was bollocks then. About five years ago I started hearing "two months' salary" and thought it was even more bollocks. Three months' salary, however, is some kind of uber-bollocks (what's that nasty parasitic condition where your testicles swell up to about ten times their original size? I saw a photograph once and it is seared on my cerebral cortex forever. Anyway, three months' salary is that much bollocks).

The "x months' salary" is purely and simply an invention of the diamond industry, specifically De Beers. It is profoundly depressing that so many otherwise intelligent and switched-on couples fall for it.

[blackteaplease]

Ah Debeers that's it. Not Debretts, although they may have a view on it. In fact they do and say

?It is still customary for the groom to pay for the ring; he should get the very best he can afford.

[Angelswings]

Just worked out it's cost DH the equivalent of 5p a day for my ring as we've been engaged 18 years. Hope I've been worth it :)

[JosieRosie]

at Tmesis and the 'bollocks' description

The problem is, these things start as marketing propaganda and then if enough people are stupid enough to fall for them, it becomes 'the done thing' Eventually if he's not bankrupting himself to pay for some bling for your finger, he obviously doesn't love you enough

I suggested that if she wants a big blingin' ring, there are excellent lab-created diamonds that look near as dammit to the real thing, you can get massive ones for a few hundred quid at most. She wasn't interested. So it's not just having a big ring, it's the fact that it costs an arm and leg

[wineandcheese]

Three months' salary before tax or after tax?

Ho hum. If he goes all traditional (as she seems to want him to) and buys the ring without her input, how will she ever know how much it cost anyway?

[Tmesis]

He could buy her a small ring and set fire to a pile of £50 notes if that would help?

[blackteaplease]

Oh dear, that doesn't bode well. I was really uncomfortable when I found out the price of my ring (not a lot). I don't really wear jewellery and was petrified of losing it.

[AMumInScotland]

It's simply "How much do you love me?" And that can be measured in £££. And any time she has doubts about him, she can look at it and feel reassured that he loves her enough to get hugely in debt to give her something for the sole reason that she wants it.

[blackteaplease]

Wineandcheese, he could be a doofus like my dh and leave the receipt lying around to be found when I was tidying.

[omgomgomg]

I thought it was one months salary.

Has inflation hit engagement ring expectations too ?