OTT / self-indulgent I know, but Toddler Twin Tantrums..... aaargh! Just as well they're so cute too. Ds2 was v funny today wiggling his bum singing `uh, uh Bobby' in response to me dancing round the kitchen to `Bobby's girl'...
ALL haaaaaaaa at putting the potty on top of the poo!! Amazing work swimming with all of them.
Lavita hmmm, food. Mine both still like any fruit except melon and M will basically eat anything although not keen on bread (random), but R is increasingly fussy, so for example vegetable-wise is now down to only eating peas, broccoli and cauliflower unless I smuggle other veg into a pasta sauce. No meat unless heavily disguised or in sausage form . Can often sneak a fishcake past her but not salmon... it's becoming a bit of an issue especially as I want to make the most of M's adventurous tastes and encourage that. Fortunately R is greedy by nature so although she has bland tastes I don't worry about her going hungry (quite the reverse...)
GG hope you've recovered after the stairs incident. That made me think about the fact I don't supervise ours on the stairs at all any more. I probably should be more careful.
Kate hi and welcome
Busy weekend: big baby meet up including a friend who's moved to London back up for a visit, this morning a trip to the aquarium, two lots of friends round for afternoon tea, dinner out with baby group last night, abs blast class tonight... I must go to sleep I'm nodding off as I type! Love to everyone
Wow Tarti, not surprised you needed your bed last night. That sounds like one full weekend!
When I think things (like swimming) might be difficult, I think it'll get harder once dd is mobile. Bit like twins are hard work, but next stage brings it's own challenges. So, if we don't do stuff now we'll never do it cos it'll just get more difficult logistically and also cos the kiddies won't know what's expected if they're not used to it. Or something like that anyway.
Thought we were going to have a no-sleep naptime today listening to the boys giggling together. Eventually they went to sleep. When I got them up I discovered the source of hilarity. Ds1 had managed to haul the mega box of wipes, containing (thankfully, only) 4x80 wipes, into his cot. Quite an impressive feat. As was getting all of said wipes back into the packets again.....
Hi ladies - good work on getting the thread up and running.
The funniest tantrummy behaviour i've noticed in our boys (19 months today) is when one has a meltdown (over for example me removing something from their grasp) the other one fakes a meltdown to compete for the attention. Hilarious.
I bath our 3 together (for the benefit of Kate, I don't have triplets - god I applaud you woman, but i have a 3 year old so a close age gap) and it is now actually good fun. They all blow raspberries on each other's tummies and bottoms. When I get them out and try and steer them into the bedrooms, Raff normally pees on the floor, which isn't an issue at present but we are about to fork out for expensive carpet so will have to get nappies on toute suite in the bathroom me thinks.
LL how are you enjoying life back in blighty? saw the high-heeled Uggs - a lot nicer than I imagined! I'm on a diet too having gained half a stone in December due to xmas lunches, heavy drinking etc. My new philosophy is 3 meals a day, no snacks.
any road up, those pesky twins are awake now so off to clean up some massively pooey bums. Laters!
Monkey your DT's sound hilarious with their strops - mine do the same! If I've said 'no' to one, the others come running in to see what all the excitement is - then see Dtrip1 having a strop and so join in! But then I just laugh at Dt2+3 and they just collapse into fits of giggles, leaving Dt1 SUPER angry!
We have 2 older girls too (now 4 and 5) and occasionally they will all go in the bath together - is hilarious, but I have to sit covered in towels because I get so wet from the splashing! Older 2 love it for a while, and then get a little bit sick of being constantly splashed!
When Dt's are in the bath, they sit in a row, all facing the taps and wash the person in fronts back; then turn around and wash the other persons back!
Hmm high heeled Uggs?! Why have I never seen these before? Saying that, I have only very recently treated myself to a new pair of Uggs so not sure I could persuade DH that I need another pair!
haha, we have the fake meltdown too. Usually cos one or other wants picked up & the other is afraid they will be left out - a very whiny phase. I've tried encouraging them to walk with me to the sofa so we can group hug there but they'd rather strop in the hallway if I won't pick them both up. I've taken to getting down to their level explaining patiently that `there is no need for that noise. It is not necessary'. I can imagine them telling people things are not necessary, but it does work. Unfortunately dp was telling me earlier to tell the women on OBEM that the noise is not necessary. Think I'd better change my record .
Second day in a row that nursery have passed comment on the boys' inability to keep their clothes on. Oops...
I like that tactic ALL - will pinch that for my own
nonexistant repertoire of approaches. My two are very screechy at the moment, emitting a most irritating eeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhh sort of noise when they want something or when the other has just snatched something away, which I find particularly grating as they are starting to be able to talk quite well so why they opt for this instead is beyond me. I am often to be found gripping one of them rather forcibly by the elbows and shouting saying pointedly WHAT DO YOU MEAN???? SAY WHAT IT IS THAT YOU MEAN etc etc. like a lunatic.
Have been thinking about activities for CP at half term - would anyone who's been before (GG / ALL ?) recommend anything for just-under-two's? Or is it best not to book yourself up with classes and activities and stuff? I am so holiday-starved I can't help
over planning ahead
We've also booked two weeks in Brittany for the summer. Must shift this pesky stone so I can get excited about a holiday wardrobe.
Welcome Kate (and hats off to you )
I'm currently living in
purgatory Surrey at my mother's and GOOD GRIEF I cannot wait to get into our new house. Our buyers are turning out to be lovely but thick as mince and here we are, almost two months after accepting their offer, and we're still waiting for funds to clear with their solicitor so he/she can start the searches. FFS. Met them at the house on Weds, lovely etc etc but really felt like I was talking into the ether when describing to them how acutely we need this exchange/completion to happen, like, NOW. Looks like we'll be moving back into our London house in a week or two, so we don't outstay our welcome here. On the other hand, we went to see our vendors last weekend for tea, cake, and negotiation on the minutiae. All went well but still can't quite get my head around the fact we could be in there within a month!
Other than that, girls are being a handful but entertaining.
Lavita - remind me how old your girls are now? Re. feeding, I found it bloody hard work at about the year stage, and apparently their requirements for food hugely decrease and they can become ultra fussy. Mine did and I found it stressful, but it did improve.
By the way, talking of tantrums, went to the M&S cafe with the girls the other day and E had just the WORST tantrum I've ever seen. As part of it she ran like the wind through the store and I managed to lose her for about a minute - she's a crafty little bugger and as soon as I went the other way round an aisle hoping to be able to catch her the other side she dashed in the other direction and towards the bloody car park. OMG in that minute I was utterly terrified, busy store, near the exit, tiny girl on her own... oh dear we had a very tearful little girl as I carried her screaming back to our table.
tartiflette CP is brilliant! We actually went for 4 days before christmas with our 5DD's and we had such an amazing time! They were fantastic with booking it in the first place, and trying to make it as easy as possible. Tried to book online (but wasn't going to work - holiday places dont really like make it possible to have more than 2 children!) so rang up and the woman was lovely . I explained that although I would technically need 4 bedrooms, our Dtrips refuse to sleep separately so would only need 3 - but that if it was a nightmare, we would be happy to just pay for the fourth. She was brilliant and sorted it all out for us, and made sure there were 3 cots in the one room; booked Villa as close to Plaza as possible - and just generally thought about everything for us, where to store triple buggy, who can help with us when swimming etc..
We did quite a few of the Xmas activities, and only a few crafty things that you book on the day (I think?!) - so cant really comment on which activities to do Im afraid!
But definitely go ahead and book it - we thought it would be a nightmare with ours, it turned out to be the easiest thing ever - have already booked again!
London I feel your pain! Those pesky public strops are the worst! My other Dtrips just laugh, really loudly (and screeching about how funny it is!), at the DT having the strop - making everyone stare more!
With a singleton, you can just grab them under your arm and march them out, but with multiples - its so much harder! Trying to grapple a stroppy 2YO and push triple buggy and listening to other DT's crying to come out, and forgetting to pay for things... ahhh!!!!
I hate those times when you lose sight of them, that feeling in your heart where it literally stops. Oh god, I hate even thinking about it!
Oh Lottie - it's lovely that your Mum is having you, but I don't envy you! I hope the buyers sort themselves out v soon. & nightmare with tantrum and missing all in the same outing!! Poor you!
Almost had a tantrum myself at toddler gp yesterday . Snack time is at the end of the session. Bit like `musical chairs' as there wasn't enough room/chairs for all kiddies & obv I wanted both boys together so I waited til everyone else was settled (well, it took me that long to round both up & get them in same place), got them a chair each & a mum took the chair from ds1 & sat on it herself behind her child!! Why would you? Toddler at toddler gp, not seated at snack time & carrying a chair. Is it me?? I was fuming. So we left and I'm kicking myself now for not saying something but I would have been v rude.
haha Tarti.... I cringe at it being my teacher side coming through...
I've not done CP as a family thing before so GG & Kate prob have better / more up to date experience. Think I might try ringing to see if we can have extra cots Kate.... we're wondering how/if to manage the boys at night in beds! You're right about the web booking.... more that 2 under 3s just isn't an option so I think we prob just have 1 cot for now. & if you're going at half term Tarti, you'll be able to tell me yours too as we're not going til end of Feb. I do remember trying to go to the pub for dinner when we went with work (yrs ago) and it was totally nuts & full of families. We've booked a table for us all to eat 1 evening, especially with there being 9 of us going & wanting a fairly early timeslot. We've also booked a session of bowling as I'm sure the boys will enjoy helping roll the balls. There doesn't seem to be all that much `stuff' for under 2s really. We plan to spend a lot of time in the pool & hopefully just `out & about' if the weather is OK. & dp has insisted I go off and do something a couple of times & he will prob do the same. We've hired a couple of bikes for our lodge along with a double trailer thing for the boys too.
We've now had potty on poo twice.. and on wee once. Not a coincidence then...
Think the boys are moving into terrible twos already here. And they are only 20 months <wails>. I can't face it already. H took until she was over 3 before we got past the irrational tantrums. D particularly is going to try my patience. He is so naughty. Cute naughty, but if he doesn't actually get what he wants he quickly turns to devil tantruming child. Not good
Hi Kate - kudos for having 5 kids and 3 at once! There is a triplet mum in the next village to me. I have never spoken to her, just bump into her in clarks shoe shop occasionally (tamba discount days normally) but she always seems to have some old lady wittering away to her about how her neighbours son's cousin has twins or something equally vague that I never feel I can bother her with saying hi.
Centreparcs, we didn't do any activities <cheapskates>. We normally go for 4 nights. By the time you arrive on Monday and get your bearing there is not much time to do anything. Other days are filled with a swim (which takes either a whole morning or afternoon) Going for a cycle. Stopping for cafe for a coffee/wine and kids in associated soft play (free). Playing at the park/adventure playground (free), feeding the ducks (free). The last time we were there we went off site for a day trip to the lake district (we were at windfell) and wandered round ambleside. Went to a lovely pub lunch in langdale etc. The ease of CP is that is is very child friendly. The kids just loved all the wildlife (ducks, pheasants, squirrels) that are fairly tame and come up to within 1meter of you. My tips would be to take a crate of toys with you for the lodge and to book the restaurants at about 10am in the morning otherwise you'll not get a table for 5-6pm! Although there is off season, the parks normally average 95% occupancy so they are always busy.
Better get off to bed as H is 4 tomorrow so we are having friends round tomorrow at 10am and then other friends round at 2pm, then granny at 4pm for birthday tea, then skype granny and granda at 6.30pm. Then kids in bed and opening the wine at 9pm!
I need to berate you all !
First you all get me addicted to lots of expensive websites, then I start imagining moving to the country, and now I'm feeling very left out of the Centreparcs shenanigans and have spent the morning reading up and convincing DP
that is imperative that we should go
It's very reasonably priced out of season, think we may go in Feb whilst MIL is here. Which is better Longleat or Elveden?
ALL I'm loving the potty stories, as much as I am looking forward to the days the girls are out of nappies, I am really not looking forward to potty training. It's a while off yet. How old is Cora now? is she much better?
LL the girls will be 15 months on the 4th Feb, both have sort of started walking a bit, so exciting but ever so dangerous at the same time, they have no fear whatsoever and are forever falling off the sofa, sideboard etc.
MM Are you enjoying being back at work? I can't believe I'm saying it but I actually miss working in central London, even the commute. I've started doing bits though for our company, not much, but it doesn't really feel like work because I'm at home iyswim
Tarti I am shouting far too often, but it's so hard not to, how many times can you say no and move them, it feels like groundhog day, calm and colected doesn't seem to work.
Chesty Happy Birthday for Hazel tomorrow, hope you all have a lovely day. I really like the idea of Centreparcs now
Kate Love the triplets bathtime, so cute! Also love your children's name's
stalked you via your profile Assume you must get asked all the time but it must of been a huge surprise, are they identical? <nosy and wants the full story >
Chesty hope H's birthday yesterday was good - sounds like you had a packed schedule. And thanks for the Centerparcs info (Thanks Kate and ALL too)... we're going during May half term so this really is super advance planning . Probably right about not overbooking with activities.
Lottie you have needed the patience of a saint with this move..
Lavita at Centerparcs bandwagon. We're going to Sherwood Forest so can't advise.
I'm stationed in the sitting room with blood pressure rising as I listen to the high jinx upstairs - I cannot believe they're not asleep, we had a mammoth expedition to the big park this morning, which is a 45 minute walk - it's really blustery weather but we had a good go on all the stuff, fed ducks, shouted MAN! at every single man who walked past - the usual. Then I made them walk a good part of the way home to ensure they were worn out, they were both more or less nodding off by the time we got home, had lunch, into cots at 1.30 which is very late, and now they are WIDE A-FRIGGING-WAKE. Just went in to change a nappy and replace Maggie's grobag which she now removes at every opportunity and saw her get 90% of the way to climbing out of the cot. So it looks like I might have to think about beds much sooner than I would like. I just cannot imagine them ever settling in their own beds while they're sharing a room (or at all, actually).
Anyone done this yet or have advice about climbing. She couldn't clamber out with bag still on so I suppose I could literally sew her into it each night
Tearing my hair out here! I've been getting around the afternoon nap-refusal for the last week by making sure we are driving back from somewhere at just the right time each day, so they have fallen asleep in car and I've transferred them to cots. But it turns out the problem is still there <grits teeth and goes back into the fray>
(sorry for the rant!)
Forgive quick post, am now in Switzerland - have decamped here for a few days to get everything ready for packers. It's not a holiday but... here with DH and away from the girls for 4 days (FOUR! the longest ever ) so in a way it's the closest we're going to get to a 'romantic break' for a while
tarti - okay, BE STRONG. My advice - keep her in that Grobag for as long as possible. How is she able to get out of it? Is it the style with poppers at the top on the shoulders? These are useless as they get older - we've now got the ones which zip up from the top right down to the bottom, with the zipper covered up with fabric
thus making it impossible for crafty little fingers to navigate - invest immediately!! If I were you I'd do whatever it takes to prolong the putting into beds. (This is based purely on my own fear of same btw...) Re. the nap - did they go down eventually? I often find it they're overtired it's harder for them to go down; they get into a mini-frenzy, especially during the day when they don't have the darkness to help them switch off. At the new house there is a 'perfect' room for the girls upstairs with two built in beds. Although they're very cute I am refusing to put the girls in there for a while as I can't BEAR the thought of having to settle them over and over again.
Very funny exchange with Great Grandfather the other day, who said to Eve "Hello then, what's YOUR name?". To which she paused to reflect, before shouting out "ME!" at the top of her voice
Lottie, get orf the `net and get romantic! haha @ Eve - `me' is pretty impressive though! Our boys are still a bit confused by names. They call each other by
toddler versions of their correct names but if we ask them where the-boy-of their-own-name is, they point to the other twin (if you get me...). All dogs are also known by our dog's name. They've also just mastered `mummy'. Finally. They have known it is me for a long time but just disappointingly never been bothered to say it whereas every other toddler has been saying it forever. Ds2 says it very clearly whereas ds1 sounds more like `money'. Could be worse I spose...
Sympathies Tarti (but haha @ `man'.... we have that too to describe any adult). I have thought of you a number of times this week as we've had our most challenging week in terms of naps. Nursery days are difficult enough with having to fit lunch & nap in before dropping them off at around 1pm
stupid idea going for pm rather than am sessions without having a daft half hour before they give in to sleep. Thursday we had a no-nap naptime. 90mins of listening to ds2 giggling (so not all bad), then he cried to get up. Sure ours aren't ready for dropping it yet. They can't be <wail> we've not been in the routine long enough for us to drop it yet . Dreading the bed thing too & we've seriously started `proofing their room in preparation. We're going away next weekend & won't have any night-cages so it will be interesting now they're no longer used to sleeping with us. No advice on climbing really. Spose we're lucky in that ours have so far cried on waking so not really spent much time in cots. Now they are playing more though, I suspect ds1 won't be long - he had his foot over the side the other day. Ours are in fleece all-in-ones now as they got v frustrated with having legs trapped in the Grobags when we tried to go back to them after the summer won't make that mistake with dd.
Yey Lavita, you can do CP musings too! No idea about which to choose
tho I'd be tempted to go & do safari at Longleat. We're doing Whinfell & sort of had assumed Tarti was too. Where do we find free soft play GG? Is it just in the main centre place? Imagine it gets packed with toddlers since most children will be that age during term time? I am looking forward to introducing the boys to the wildlife on the patio as that's what we loved as a bunch of 20-somethings last time. I hope H had a lovely birthday.
Glad you're liking our non-potty-training-potty-training efforts. We've now had potty on wee too (ds1). This morning ds2 came to me (nappy-free) and said `wee wee'. Asked if he wanted to do it in the potty and he looked at me like this , wandered off & came back with a clean nappy, lay down in front of me, legs up. I put the nappy on him, he wandered off, came back a few minutes later & triumphantly removed the now wet nappy. Again.... I was impressed. They are funny things.
DD is 10wks now and doing fab. Should get her weighed soon but she's def gaining OK
judging by the size of her cheeks and thighs. None the worse for her illness though we do all have colds again so I've been nagged by Mum today not to leave it so long before taking her to hospital this time cos she'll get better more quickly if they start treatment sooner. Erm.. noo..... She had a virus & there is no treatment, just O2 support if needed. I give up....
FOUR NIGHTS AWAY Lottie you jammy thing. We have two nights booked in Feb, can't wait. Will be my first two-nighter (I think - can't actually remember )
Yes it's the bags with poppers at the top - clearly this is the issue. What brand have this magical zip that you speak of? I am definitely not mentally or physically prepared for the move to beds, so will try anything. Mind you this is the child who can get out of any high chair, climb anything, unfasten her car seat etc etc so am not going to be able to put it off forever...
Ha ha at 'ME!'. They are so funny. I caught myself watching my two this morning, as they 'danced' around with floaty scarves at the music group we go to, with an inane adoring grin on my face - had to rearrange my face into normal hardened grimace or no one would have recognised me...
ALL the pils wanted to go to Whinfell but we've had so many rainy holidays in the Lake District with them (they live between Manc and Liverpool so it's conveniently halfway) that I fancied a change! Glad Cora is thriving. Lovely to have the opinions of family and onlookers when it comes to your own child's health, eh? . 10 weeks though - how has this happened?? My bil became a father on Friday. They have yet to choose a name. This seems like a long time to deliberate to me, but no one else thinks it's odd.
Lavita that's impressive that you've started to do some work at home. I don't know how anyone manages it. I struggle to put some laundry on, let alone do any brain work. I can rarely even make myself do marking or planning once they're in bed, although I am exceptionally lazy, plus it's hardly work I enjoy or am passionate about!
PS I don't hate my job but those are not the best aspects, to put it mildly. Plus I'm in a grump as am having to go in this evening on my day off, for the third time since Christmas, for an open evening. Grrr.
tarti you're in luck. I bought two of the Grobag ones from a seller on Ebay and she still has them available. In my opinion they are the best design Grobag do and they've stopped doing it! Idiots. White with embroidered animals on, really well made, and with a zip down the middle. This seller has 5 left at £20 a pop, much cheaper than buying them from Gro Company, and last until they're 3yrs. Mine will be in Grobags until they're teenagers!
Will write more later, just sneaking peak on t'web in between sorting out the difference between belongings we want to keep and rubbish we need to leave. The difference is extremely slight.
Waves to ALL - 10 weeks! Agree, time flying past.... xxx
Amazing Lottie thanks so much, have just bought one of those to try. Ooh enjoy your clear out, I so enjoy getting rid of stuff. We had a huge clear out of the garage at the weekend, I feel cleansed.
Oh goodie tarti - let me know how your little Houdini gets on in it...
Meant to say ALL - it's all very well advising me to get orf the net and get romantic with DH, but too much of that sort of thing leads to... you know... EXTRA babies.
LVB Sorry for late reply! 2 are identical, and 1 not - however they all very similar so people are usually surprised that the ID's are the identical ones - if that makes sense!
A lot less apparent at the moment though; 1 of the ID's was recently diagnosed with an illness and lost a lot of weight and is quite behind the other 2 (bit worrying now) because of this, so she is looking much different to her ID.
Other triplet mums I've spoken to often refer to theirs as 'Twins+1'; maybe its me, but I just feel like the '+1' is being left out - especially as, technically the '+1' and one of the ID's were first non-identical twins, but 1 split into 2 making ID's. Going on a bit, sorry!
But yes, was definitely a big surprise - we were first told it was twins which we literally could not believe! Then had another scan 2 weeks later as 1 twin was a bit smaller - the sonographer was looking at screen and then just said 'Um.. I'm just going to get a colleague to come and have a look'. We thought it was bad news and I actually burst into tears as thought we'd lost 1 - a couple of months before I'd had a miscarriage quite far into pregnancy, and I thought it was happening again. 'Colleague' came in (looked at me weirdly) and was just looking around for a bit, and then simply said 'Yep, definitely 3' and just smiled at us. Me and DH being total twats said '3 what?' D'oh!
tartiflette I cant even imagine putting mine into beds... Will be keeping them in cots as long as possible! They already lob teddies into other sisters' cots to irritate each other...
Interesting about the similarities of your 3 Kate. We reckon in a yr or so ds2 and dd may look more similar than ds1/ds2 (non-id).
Lottie... so is that how it happened??? I can heartily recommend it (#3, not romance) tho . We were musing about what it might be like to have a #4
Wish I was good at clear outs, but I'm a grade 1 hoarder . We were looking at houses at the weekend & acknowledging we'd have to chuck out most of our possessions in order to move to a new build house. I am getting better though. If dp asks if he can get rid of something, I put my head in the sand & tell him to decide, but not to tell me... I have put a lot of books / cds etc into storage boxes in the attic too, so it's a start. I'm finally making a start on dd's nursery. She has more clothes than me and we have nowhere to put them! Bought a wardrobe for her at the weekend and put it in boys' room for now
but keep forgetting to get stuff out before we put them to bed
Love the Grobag link!! Think I may invest too.... We have a couple of M&P & they have a popper across the top of the zip & that worked better than the other zipped ones - those the boys just pulled at the neck til the zip came down. They are expensive tho and only go up to 18months. We just got them cos someone gave us M&P vouchers & I couldn't see anything else to buy!
haha Tarti, I agree with the naming delay
not like you don't have months to think of possibilities but can't really comment as we were the same both times. Dp's fault entirely tho as he wouldn't even discuss names til they were here, particularly with dd, and then decided that he'd quite like to use my grandma's name which I really struggled with. I did have grand plans of doing the traditional `sex, weight, name' announcements. Boys we decided on after a couple of days as it was making my head spin trying to remember which was twin 1 & 2 - particularly as they switched position before they were born so W was dt1 throughout pg but born second & was suddenly ds2.
Boss rang me yesterday to say a new pile of marking has been collated for me.
Like a fool I went in to collect it today. How did this happen........? Def not the highlight of the job Tarti... but when I'm on mat leave too???
Oh give them a try ALL - there's no way I can see my girls getting out of them, they'd have to fiddle around at the bottom with loads of fabric covering the zip, and then zip it up all the way before unclasping it. And they love wearing theirs
well, maybe not at the exact point I truss them into them and don't want to take them off in the morning. Although J has now taken to saying "no mummy, more sleep!" when I go in to get them up in the morning. She then falls to the ground of her travel cot and makes hilarious fake snoring noises while grinning at her spectacular 'joke'...
Marking, ALL what the f??!?!?
Fascinating about your three being non id twins to start with Kate, and how they look different/similar. And lol at '3 what?' !!
Marooned in the bedroom while packers remove all but the
piles of junk we're leaving behind. DH flew back to UK this morning; I leave tomorrow. I seem to have about 200chf left over in cash after managing to sell a couple of bits of furniture yesterday, including our changing table... so am going to hit the duty free to buy some overpriced anti-aging cream to counter all the stress of the past few months!
KateSchmate - I can't believe you have five girls. And sound sane. Sorry to read that one of your DTr's was ill recently and lost weight. Is she gaining weight again now?
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