Advice re Christmas Contact

[wirral]

An emotive subject,I know. I also know that in comparison with others I have it easy this time of year;

The facts:
ExHusband works shifts, daughter's just turned 8years old, court order states that over Christmas ex has daughter from 6pm Christmas Day until 4pm Boxing day and then other dates and times by agreement.

Ex wants from the Friday she breaks up until 10am Christmas Eve.

5pm Christmas Day until 5pm Boxing Day

Sat 29th 10am until Sun 30th 6pm

Tues 1st Jan 4pm until Fri 4th Jan 6pm

On the face of it his requests seem reasonable, however if I set it out like this : D = Dad and M = Mum the 'routine' is:

D D M M D M M D D M M D D D M M M

Which I think is all over the place. I suggested that he forgoes the weekend in between Christmas and New Year and instead has her for the weekend after New Year therefore giving daughter longer at both houses. He does not agree.
Also I am irritated by him changing the times stated on the Court Order and also by his suggestion that he picks up daughter at 4pm on New Years Day - this smacks of using me as a baby sitter - he is either working New Years Eve or going out therefore needs to sleep during the day.

I suspect that noone will reply to this as it is pathetic and difficult to understand however I just wondered if anyone has any suggestions? Or do you think I should just agree.I worry that daughter will not want to go to Dad's and will be stressed with thinking up an excuse or inventing an illness

[pneumalifenewname]

I think you should ask your daughter what things she'd like to do over xmas in terms of seeing friends, extended family, opening presents, making cards, going shopping, baking, etc. etc. and then divide the time up according to which parent is in the best position to achieve what. i.e. maybe you have more family to visit and are more into xmas shopping, maybe exdh is into baking mince pies with her and making the xmas cards and going out in the cold to deliver them...??

Be careful not to self fulfil and prophecies regarding what your daughter wants/how she'll react. She is old enough to have some say in this but as her parents you need to make the final decisions taking her needs into account.

[pneumalifenewname]

I also think that extended periods away from the main care giver can be unsettling just as much as swapping houses every 5 mins is. Really the big question is: what does she think

[wirral]

Ah - well I do know what she would think. She would want to spend the bulk of the time with me. I have family and friends who daughter is very fond of. She and I are also really close. This in no way means that I don't think that she should spend time with her Dad - I do - just not the 50% that he wants.

Thanks for the reply

[wirral]

Oh - sorry should also have mentioned that ex does not get on with his family. Whilst I suspect that he will visit them with daughter over Christmas he has never made the effort to include them in her life. And he also has few friends with children. I'm not lying - just telling it how it is

[pneumalifenewname]

In that case I think that the visitation should reflect what you have stated and, indeed, 50/50 would not be appropriate for your dd. Would 60/40 be reasonable or would that be too much?

what are his motivations,are they 'genuine' or does he just like to appear to do his bit? Not casting aspertions but I think this is relevant.

[macdoodle]

Seems a bit her and there for a 8 year old stability and routine are important in this age - will be pack unpack lugging new toys etc back and forth seems ridiculous to me good luck....tel him you have plans for new years day not unreasonable

[muppetgirl]

Really wacky idea here but here goes...

Can your daughter stay where she is ie at home where her presents are and the adults do all the packing/unpacking and moving around?
I know this probably isn't possible but it would give fair access with stability for your dd?


Sorry if REALLY bad idea, just a thought.

[wirral]

Ha Not sure of the practicalities of the adults moving. Am not sure I'd like ex to be in our house etc.

It's an interesting point about my ex's motivations. Over the last 18months I think that I've realised that ex appears to be more interested in showing to others that he is a doting Dad. For example last week he turned up at school for the talk about this year's homework etc - not a problem but he NEVER does homework with her. I think appearances are quite important to him.

Thanks for all your comments. As I have said before I sometimes like others opinions just to check that I am not being 'evil, selfish and mean spirited' as ex is currently calling me

[muppetgirl]

Thought it was a stupid idea, it's just a shame that your dd has to do all the moving around especailly at Christams.
Can you alternate Christmas? This year his CHristmas eve/Christams day with his then boxing day + you. The you both get a solid block of time with her. Next year reverse it.

[peskipixie]

we do me from school, swap xmas day, then back to me til school starts again. we share all hols 50/50. useless having parts of days, its just irritating and you cant do anything good cos you dont have time or constantly have it on your mind that you have a time limit. ask him how long he wants to keep her after xmas day and thats his lot. i assume he is only wanting this as its convenient for him? will do him good to know what its really like being a parent and having to work round the child not vice versa

[wirral]

Thanks all. I suspect that it will have to be resolved via solicitors. Daughter has just come back from his house saying that he is getting her a mobile phone. I so disapprove of an 8 year old child having a mobile phone. Things are not good, not good at all

[peskipixie]

my ds has one at his dads but i dont allow him to bring it home. its almost as if they think of the thing that will annoy you most and give them that isnt it?

[Tinkerbel5]

I think those date are very bitty especially the dropping off on boxing night, then pick up again 3 days later, then drop off the next night, then pick up 1 day later, I wouldnt think it would be a problem to cut the weekend out between boxing day and new year (5 days) when he then has her for 5 days.

[wirral]

Glad to think that you understand re the bittiness of the contact. I am not trying to cut it down - just make it less sporadic. Ex needless to say thinks I am being 'evil, selfish' etc.

Have calmed down re mobile phone. Was so very, very annoyed. I'd always assumed that she would get one when going to senior school. I have also come to the conclusion that she can keep it at her Dad's and not bring it home. Am finding it hard to compete with the ninetdo wii and mobile phone. Feeling like I am the miserable homework parent

[peskipixie]

me too wirral. my ex tells them all sorts of lies about how wonderful life would be if they lived with him. thing is when we went to court he didnt want them to live with him, he just wants to make my life hard by saying this stuff. i cling to the hope that when they grow up they will understand

[Rosasmum]

I think that the arrangement he has proposed will leave your daughter not knowing whether she is coming or going and whilst she may be a little too young to plan the time completely around what she wants, she should definitely have a part in the decision. She is older enough to know who she would like to be with as well as wanting to see her friends. It does come across that he has planned his time with her around his plans.

You are not in any way spiteful or evil, it really annoys me when the fathers put more importance on Christmas than they do any other day of the year. It shouldn't be like that, every hour they spend with their children should be as important as the next.

Stop trying to complete with the mobile phone and nintendo. It may not feel like it now but one day your daughter will realise what that game is all about and she will appreciate that you are the one there for her, for her homework help, the one who does her washing, cookng etc.

I hope you can sort this out without the solicitors involvement and whatever happens, don't let him bully you

George x

[Surfermum]

I think the trouble with asking your dd what she wants to do is that she will feel torn between wanting to please her mum and wanting to please her dad, and it may be an impossible thing for her to decide.

The buying of expensive presents isn't necessarily a game, Rosasmum. We can afford to buy dsd more than her mum. It's not done to rub her mum's nose in it, there's no "game", we just buy dsd the things that we can afford that she'd like - just like hundreds of other parents.

What I will say about it though, is that despite the fact that we can buy dsd more, and do more things with her (like holidays), she is very, very clear that she wants to spend half her time with her mum and half her time with her dad. That's what she thinks is fair. She has asked to increase her time with us in the summer holidays to 3 weeks, and wants to alternate Christmases with us and her mum (instead of us never having Christmas Day and always having Boxing Day for a week). Where she gets the "best" presents doesn't come into it - besides the "best" presents aren't necessarily the most expensive ones and I'm sure stuff that her mum buys for her is just as special to her.

[wirral]

Fair point re the presents Surfermum but would you really buy your stepdaughter a Nintedo Wii in the Summer holidays without it being for a special occasion? Or a mobile phone for an 8 year old again for no occasion? I can also afford to buy these things for our daughter but I choose not too as I don't want this to become a competition. She should get gifts for birthdays, Christmas etc not for just going to his house. He is in danger of turning her into a spoilt brat.

I am happy that daughter is able to voice her opinion without fear of siding with either of us. I am also aware that unlike your stepdaughter she does not want to spend 50% of her spare time with her Dad. For this reason it is difficult to arrange contact. He must and should have contact with his daughter but not the 50% when he feels like it

[Lauriefairycake]

I'm sorry haven't read whole thread but why don't you just stick to the times actually agreed ie: the ones for Christmas and Boxing day?

Then say that all other times you want some peace and quiet and you want to visit friends and family - and say no more than that - and when not listened to say it again - and not even entering into arguing at all.

And then once you've stuck to it for a while you can decide what would best suit you - maybe one of the weekends ?

[Surfermum]

No, we don't do that Wirral! I've just bought her a couple of new tops from Primark, and will often do something like that - but big presents are for Christmas or birthdays.

The point I was trying to make was that you really don't need to worry about competing with the present buying thing, or that you're the "miserable homework parent", and I just wanted to reassure you that I'm sure your dd loves you and her dad equally. It isn't about what you buy and do with her. You're doing the right thing by not "competing".

[wirral]

Thanks. I am really disappointed that ex is doing this. I thought better of him and worry that daughter will suffer in the long term because of it. It has been so hard trying to explain to her why it isn't appropriate for an 8 year old to have a mobile phone. I have visions that she will soon come home from visiting him with at least her ears pierced and a tattoo ( Joke!)

[Tinkerbel5]

wirral he can only bribe your daughter for access visits for so long until she is old enough to wise up what he is doing, dont even bother to compete cause you wont be able to do it, money dont compensate for love and it dont make him the better parent either.

[bozza]

I think you are being a little unfair in not wanting to let him have a decent amount of time with his DD over the Christmas holidays. But I do see what you mean about it being bitty and you being the NY babysitter. Why don't you suggest that instead of him having her 29-30 and 1-4 he has her 31-4 which would work out the same number of days but less bitty?

[wirral]

Bozza- sorry you think I'm being unfair but I think you've misunderstood me. If you read my opening post I think your suggestion is the one that I have made to him but he is not happy with this

[bozza]

LOL at that then. I did say that I saw some of your points though, didn't I?