Flag saga Northern Ireland

(200 Posts)
SucksFakeSanta Mon 10-Dec-12 22:35:32

I am ashamed to be from NI.

Thank goodness there has been no loss of life, but some people have had terrifying experiences.

My DC are now scared of 'the flag people' after the route to my DTSs birthday dinner was blocked by a mob earlier this evening.

Seriously fed up with it all. Cannot imagine what it must be like to be working in retail or tourism at the minute.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 11-Dec-12 00:57:52

It is frightening that many of the rioters are coming from what should have been the peace generation. People who are too young to remember the actual Troubles.

They are puppets, being wound up and used by politicians and paramilitaries. This is how our children become bitter.sad

WayneDeer Tue 11-Dec-12 01:09:10

My ever practical grandmother remarked,
" they all knew there would be trouble, all of them. couldn't this all have waited until after Christmas, it'll really stop people shopping and going out"

I was going to mount my high democratic horse and then thought..yeah probably

bureni Tue 11-Dec-12 01:44:41

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I dont agree with the flag being taken down.

But I dont agree with little thugs rioting in the name of it either.

WayneDeer Tue 11-Dec-12 02:33:31

I think lots of people feel the same way wannabe

weegiemum Argentina Tue 11-Dec-12 02:42:44

This sort of thing is why dh left NI when he was 18 (24 years ago) and why he has told me (Scottish born and bred, as are our dc) that he will never go back!

We only visit because his mum and his brother+ family live there. I've never had a visit in 20 years when something they normalise happens and I'm left thinking "WTF"

It's not yet a healthy community, no matter what people from there say!

There's a difference between people 'defending their national identity and heritage' peacefully and not what those scumbags out on the street are doing. Fwiw - it's my national identity and I would have preferred for the flag to stay up but I don't condone people going out and rioting in my apparent name. As for burning a tricolour, well that just reeks of hypocrisy.

Now the police are being attacked? Disgusting! These people are only trying to do their jobs. They have families too.

Northernexile Tue 11-Dec-12 07:56:08

Not sure I'm getting your point there bureni.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Tue 11-Dec-12 09:05:36

I think s/he's saying it's OK to riot in defnce of your 'national identity and heritage'.

Personally, I find my heritage is about more than what colour of cloth is on top of a building. But hey, what sort of pickle would Northern Ireland be in if everyone thought crazy things like that? hmm

No I think she is referring to the fact that Martin Mcguinness is Deputy First Minister even though he was in the IRA and has been in prison.

Sinn Fein pushed for it to go through now. Right before xmas. The effect its having on traders would always have been bad, but perhaps not as bad if they could have postponed until early 2013.

Also, everyone is quick to criticise loyalists when there are two sides. And lets not forget who it was bombing England and attacking British Forces.

Dissident Republicans have killed soldiers and PSNI officers in recent years. All that was in defence of their national identity. I think her point is that there are two sides.

DizzyCow63 Tue 11-Dec-12 09:33:20

MissCellania your comment is totally out of order. You cannot catogerise the entire unionist community by the acts of a few thugs, just like you cannot catogerise the entire nationalist community by, for example, those who murdered David Black just a few weeks ago.

I personally disagree with the decision to remove the flag but am disgusted by the violence that has ensued- the worst has been literally yards from my home. What the idiots perpetrating this seem not to realise is that politicians cannot be seen to give in to violence and they are simply vastly reducing the chances of any change in this decision.

poozlepants Tue 11-Dec-12 09:44:00

A lot of N Ireland's problems are and have been due to high levels of unemployment. If you have fuck all hope of a job, ever, you get involved with things that make you feel important. Add the potent issue of Northern Irish politics and you get idiots fighting over a flag for example. I don't just mean the thugs outside the city hall.
I come from N Ireland originally and the council in my hometown have been fighting over this issue for years when they should be trying to work for the people of the town bringing jobs and opportunities for young people.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 11-Dec-12 09:49:55

Issuing death threats against politicians, trying to murder police officers, destroying property and economy and disrupting people's lives does nothing to protect national identity and heritage.

It costs us in taxes and jobs and will result in a new generation who will start their lives with criminal records and bitter minds.sad

pickledsiblings Tue 11-Dec-12 09:59:34

So, what recourse do the loyalists have over this decision?

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Tue 11-Dec-12 10:15:00

What poozlepants and Dione said.

Negotiations to get the amount of days its flown increased.

Not sure that will appease the rioters though.

I am tired of living here. Trying to go xmas shopping today. Nightmare not knowing where will kick off next.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 11-Dec-12 10:21:59

The people of NI have the same recourse as the rest of the UK: challenge by legal means and if that fails, do it via the democratic process of election. Elect representatives to overturn the decision.

DizzyCow63 Tue 11-Dec-12 10:30:45

Wannabe if you are on twitter, there is a list of planned protests for every day this week- check @chrislindsay_, he's a journalist who tweeted it last night.

Thanks Dizzy! DP looking it up now!

East Belfast kicked off so bad because they elected Naomi Long (Alliance) into Peter Robinsons (DUP) seat. Thats why the death threats are against her.

So electing failed in their eyes.

Not that its ok in anyway. But just explaining it for anyone not from here!

irishyouamerrychristmas Tue 11-Dec-12 10:46:45

I'm burying my father on Thursday. Our route to the cemetery will take us through two of the areas where there has been trouble. If there are any rioters out then I can tell you I will have fuck all sympathy for them and their violence over a piece of fucking cloth. This is what living in a democracy means. If they don't like it they can fuck off (oh, the irony - a phrase used many times when I lived here to the republicans). And this is from someone whose father would have been on the disgusted side of the reaction to the decision by the city hall.

scarlettsmummy2 Tue 11-Dec-12 10:58:15

It's just a bunch of not very bright people reacting the only way they know how. It's really sad and depressing.

DizzyCow63 Tue 11-Dec-12 11:00:45

I'm not sure if this will work from my phone, but for anyone in NI not on Twitter, this is a list of planned protests for this week- here

DizzyCow63 Tue 11-Dec-12 11:02:13

Irish sorry for your loss x

Have been watching this on the news. Stay safe x

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 11-Dec-12 11:09:37

so sorry irish.

i hope the day goes without any trouble for you and your family.

"It's just a bunch of not very bright people reacting the only way they know how. It's really sad and depressing. "

and damaging to so many others beyond just themselves. all of NI suffers long term because of this stupidity.

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