I'm asking Keir a question about women's rights on 5 live - how to phrase it?

[JanefromLondon1]

I want him not to be able to give me the flannel that we have to be kind to the woMen. I want assurances that we do t have to share our spaces. I want to not sound like the very nervous person that am I!

Any help appreciated?

Do you really believe it's possible for s human being to change sex, and if you don't, shouldn't the approach to trans people get a radical overhaul, and women's spaces and rights be protected in all cases?

Sorry that's probably too long!

And when will you be on? Wanna listen! Best of luck! 💪👊

His answer at the big debate was basically 'some of my best friends are women, and I've got daughters, and we really must sort out our childcare policies.' Seasoned with 'be kind'.

I cannot tell you how cross I felt.

Sorry, that's no use to you!

Here we go- you say there is no problem with legislation as it currently stands.

Why won't you listen to the women who have been trying to explain the problem with current legislation? Why have you silenced the women in your own party trying to explain the ramifications of the current situation?

Ask him how concerned he is that inappropriate materials are being shown in schools and if he will back a public inquiry into the dismantling of child safeguarding

You’re not being asked to be kind @AGlinnerOfHope , you’re being asked to show a basic level of respect for other humans. Very different.

Hm. The two I would dearly love to ask him:

"What resources does Labour intend to provide for the women, often from vulnerable and marginalised groups, who are forced out of women's 'safe spaces' when they are used by a biologically male person with a trans identity? Because while that male may indeed be very vulnerable, is it right that some women should lose all of their equality of access to society in order for his needs to be met?"

If asked: These are women from minority cultures, faiths, with disabilities including Autism, who may have suffered child sexual assault, domestic violence or trauma.

And the second:

"I wonder if Mr Starmer can explain to women voters why whenever any Labour politician is asked about women's needs, vulnerabilities and rights, they are immediately told about how vulnerable and distressed male people with trans identities are, as if this distress and vulnerability of males should equate to females losing their rights and equality in society? Does Mr Starmer believe that it is right that he should plan to fix in law for men to have more rights than women do?"

The fudge and blustering should be a wonder to behold.

Why is respect owed by women to men with transgender identities purely on the ground that they have a gender identity? By respect, do you mean subservience or recognition of a superior whose needs they should serve at the expense of their own?

Do you think women should automatically owe 'respect' (deference and submission) to males who show none to them, and in fact are invading their spaces and resources without the least care or reciprocation of the 'respect' being demanded?

What 'respect' do you demand from males with TQ+ identities show towards women?

you’re being asked to show a basic level of respect for other humans. Very different.

"A basic level of respect" is not achieved by completely disrespecting the wishes of most women.

@Ereshkigalangcleg ‘most women’.

What evidence do you have to support the contention that most women refuse to accept and respect trans identities?

I’m relieved to say the VAST majority of women I know do not subscribe to that viewpoint.

OP I hope you have been able to form a question in spite of the attempted derail. And you get to ask it!

What evidence do you have to support the contention that most women refuse to accept and respect trans identities?

I’m relieved to say the VAST majority of women I know do not subscribe to that viewpoint.

Sure. Polling by YouGov and other agencies makes it very clear that most women are happy to "respect trans identities" up to a point but don't want most male trans people in women's spaces, and don't support legal self ID or making getting GRC easier.

Sorry meant to quote you @ElleWoods15

Yes, absolutely. Good luck and can you link it if you do!

Well as we all know, the absolute best people to discuss women's rights are two blokes.

What a fucking decade this is!

How frustrating OP

Which humans? Those who lie? Those who bully women and girls into lying? Those who make women feel incident and unsafe - because they can?

bekind - there’s a laugh. Who is kind to women and girls?

@Ereshkigalangcleg We’re looking at different Yougov U.K. polls then I think.

No attempted derail here. I was merely pointing out the difference between be kind and be respectful.

Which one are you looking at then @ElleWoods15? I'm aware of all polling on this issue in the last 7 years or so, so I doubt you're going to surprise me, and I suspect you've bought into TRA propaganda.

Which humans? Those who lie? Those who bully women and girls into lying? Those who make women feel incident and unsafe - because they can?

@HoneyButterPopcorn nope. I’m talking about people with trans identities. You’re talking about people who would seek to abuse the system. Two very different things, which seems to get ignored by those with anti trans views.

We don't have "anti trans" views or "anti men" views, @ElleWoods15 but men are excluded from women's spaces due to the men who abuse the system. "Trans women" aren't an exception.

I’m really not here for a fight and I need to go work!

But I’m looking at polling from last year @Ereshkigalangcleg, and I can assure you I’m very well read and very well informed (and indeed used to think the way you did before I actually read into the subject). The fact I take a different view to you doesn’t mean I’m blinded by propaganda. So I say again, please be respectful :)

I’m very respectful to everyone. I wouldn’t dream of forcing my way into a service that was designed for other people. You won’t find me requiring other people tie themselves in knots to avoid disagreeing with me.

You will find me standing up for the 51% of the population who seem to get trampled on at every possible turn, and squeezed out of their own spaces.

Please be kind and stop accusing me of disrespect. That’s not nice and really unfair. Check your privilege.