anyone leaning to "abstain"?

[TooMuchMNTime]

I am having that sense that politicians will just fuck it all up and it would be nice to quote Prince and look at it say "I do not have a horse in this race".

I normally always vote.

[lalalonglegs]

Yes and I've never not voted. I'm so disgusted by both campaigns: the scare-mongering of Remain; the disingenuity of Leave.

[ReggaeShark]

I feel the same. I think both campaigns have been an insult to the voting public. Have tried to imagine waking up on Friday to each result and I feel equally disappointed/scared at both possibilities. Whichever camp I vote for, I will vote reluctantly and with regret for the benefits of the alternative option. I'm angry that it's being portrayed that if I vote out I'm an intolerant, bigoted racist and that if I vote in that automatically makes me an enlightened, foolishly naive libertarian. Seriously considered not voting.

But I decided I'd lost enough sleep over this and sent off my postal vote last night. I just can't not vote. Still woke up worrying this morning though.

[AuntieStella]

I have been particularly disgusted by the "remain" campaign, and am having to struggle really hard to make a conscious effort not to overlook their actual points.

The middle option I would have liked is a proper enforceable deal for a trading bloc with free movement of goods, services and people, but not the political union. What my parents thought they were voting for.

The Cameron deal isn't even close, and German advisers quoted in Der Spiegel as saying that UK should be offered a 'few more concession' show what a farce it all is.

[TooMuchMNTime]

tbh I haven't paid much attention to the campaigns as it's such a circus

A caller on LBC made an interesting point last night - we'd get more truths if Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson switched sides because they are clearly both lying about what they want.

and then I think - why are they lying? What fresh hell do politicians have up their sleeve regardless of if we leave or stay?

My biggest concern in any context - local, national, global - is overpopulation and prioritisation of all the wrong things. No one is going to do anything about that - regardless of leave or stay.

Then I think clearly it matters a lot, this whole issue, to a lot of people. So as well as wanting to look whatever chaos ensues and think "oh well at least I didn't vote" - I'm starting to wonder if I ought to leave it for people who have very strong feelings one way or the other.

Well, in theory I have strong feelings but in practice it's not going to matter.

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I feel like I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders, like my poxy x is the deciding vote. I'll be pleased when it's over.

I'm almost certainly voting leave. I won't vote remain. I have considered abstaining.

I'm reading and reading about it until my head feels like it's exploding and about to pop, I so want to get my decision right and not regret it.

But yes, OP, I get your pov.

[schbittery]

me, and ive never abstained

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

That's a great insight about BJ and JC. How interesting that would be.

[NannyMarmalade]

If you can't bring yourself to vote in or out at least go and spoil your ballot paper as a protest.

Both sides have fucked it up!

[TooMuchMNTime]

It is so weird though - why are BJ and JC lying?

initially I thought it was great that we had been offered a referendum but now I realise it's because it won't change anything

I am a Brexiter but ironically the thing that might get me to NOT abstain now is the thought that staying in Europe makes things too worrying and unpredictable and what if dog forbid some idiot puts us in the Euro..?

okay, maybe I've got to go and vote...!

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

BJ - changed sides because Cameron is stay. If Cameron was leave Boris would be stay.

JC - always been eurosceptic, now towing the party line - badly!

I could have written your middle paragraph. That's why I'm going to vote, I think I will massively regret not taking up this chance of a generation or two.

[MephistophelesApprentice]

I'm not going to vote. It would be in my personal economic interest to vote out - my industry revolves around visa applications - but that's precisely why it would be unethical for me to vote; I couldn't be sure I'd be making a choice for the right reasons.

[TooMuchMNTime]

oh I can only say this here - I think my job is at risk if we vote out, but I can't vote in because it's so wrong.

I don't want to out myself so I will NC in a couple of weeks - I NC often anyway - but also I'm on contract, so in any case, it might not get renewed.

also the long term is that - fingers crossed - I've never had trouble getting work so end of contract isn't a worry for me (I would have got a permanent job if that was an issue) but long term staying in the EU does worry me.

This is a good thread, I've answered my own question haven't I. I suppose even politicians create a superlative screw up around Brexit, voting Remain or making no effort to stop Remain will haunt me if we ditch the pound.

[Globetrotter100]

OP, I also understand your POV. The problem is that you do have a horse in this race, we all, do and so do future generations.

Whether you decide to leave or remain, whatever the referendum outcome, we'll all be living with the consequences so even if you abstain you're part of creating those consequences. Like it or not (and I also don't like it).

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

[howtorebuild]

I wouldn't vote for JC again. I thought he was authentic and did his own thing. Labour may as well have a party line leader who is more appealing to all.

I agree spoil your paper if you don't want to vote and have your voice heard.

No remain argument has changed my mind, I don't want to be in a four layered governed country, I prefer two layers, LA and central. Now we have EU, central, regional and Local government.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

BJ has never been in one camp or the other leaning more to being a eurosceptic that's how he always plays it

JC well he is given some power and look how he is so easily turned the man of principle

It has been a very negative campaign

I feel it's best to leave but have mixed feelings about voting to leave

[TooMuchMNTime]

I think JC is in a bind because of this insane idea that being a Brexiter makes you a racist.

I guess part of my wobble is that only my mum and sister are Brexiters - that I know in real life - everyone else is ardently Remain. My dad has also accused the rest of the family of being racist - but he is being a total hypocrite because I guarantee if his country of origin joined another country and had unlimited free movement, he'd start complaining.

[MuddledMuse]

Me too - and I strongly believe that everyone should vote.

I have been fence sitting, with a leaning towards out. I have spent hours and hours reading everything I can find and watching the debates. My feelings against uncontrolled immigration are not based on some bigoted, fascist, nasty, UKIP based leanings - I have always stood against those things - but a solidarity with the working classes, of whatever racial origin, who are suffering due to the influx of cheap labour. Obviously, I am considering other issues too, but it seems to me that everyone is being judged on where they stand on the immigration issue alone.

The racist element on the Leave side, which I condemn without reservation, and the endless message from the remain side that all Outers are nasty racists has finally got to me, particularly after the awful murder of Jo Cox and the dreadful UKIP poster that was released on Thursday. I have seen messages on Facebook from friends I consider to be educated and sensible repeating the out = racist message and this more than anything has made me question whether I really am a closet racist after all. If that is the case, my entire life and career have been nothing more than an elaborate fraud.

When I'm being rational about this, I know that I am not what Remain is telling me I am, but it appears that if I do vote leave, I'll have to justify myself to all and sundry for years to come.

Quite frankly, my anxiety levels over the last few days have been ridiculously high and the best way out may be to abstain. At the moment, I can't see myself voting for stay as my trust in those that are running the Remain campaign has been completely shattered.

[TooMuchMNTime]

oh Muddled, I hear you. I so understand the anxiety - and the working class thing.

the racist thing baffles me most because I suspect a lot of people like myself - whose parents aren't from the UK - will welcome the idea that people could apply on an as-needed basis - like my folks - rather than get an automatic right to walk in because they are from the EU.

[TooMuchMNTime]

I also think the dreadful UKIP poster is actually what happens when people who aren't racist are accused of being racist. Those people shut up and the only people who come to the fore are swivel eyed loons.

[meditrina]

"but it appears that if I do vote leave, I'll have to justify myself to all and sundry for years to come"

You have to vote for what you believe is best. If you cannot decide that, then either spoil your paper or don't vote.

You really don't have to discuss your vote with anyone else, let alone justify your position. Yes there will be some continuing debate in the light of the outcome (worst being low turn out, very close vote either way) but it can be deflected into the politics and well away from the privacy of what you did in the booth.

[howtorebuild]

If JC and Labour had more WC thinking people making decisions and listened to their voters rather than get cross, they may have articulated this better for those that can't. They got this so wrong and it will be hard to get our voters back as a result.

skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Projects/The%20Nine%20Types%20of%20Intelligence.htm

Not everyone is a logic or linguistic, some people use other types of intelligence to reach a decision.

When questioned why do you want to leave the EU, the answer is immigration. Had the WC used different language they wouldn't be called racist or thick.

Had they said, for example, I am concerned my children will not gain an apprenticeship as I did. I notice unplanned immigration levels in my area of skills along with employers taking advantage are causing the problems. I don't feel the EU is protecting workers rights for my children, myself or immigrants who feel they can't work in their country of origin and complete with us and lower our standard of life. The MC and UC want to stay to protect their jobs and ability to travel, we want to leave to protect our jobs and lifestyle. I want to leave the EU because it doesn't work for us.

[MuddledMuse]

The thing is, TooMuch, although my roots are working class, I am highly educated, fairly well off and many people would consider me to be a member of the elite. It would probably be in my own interests to vote Remain.

I feel sad and angry that I am being judged poorly because I am trying to look at the bigger picture (although I understand that people will see the bigger picture in a different way and I don't have a problem with that).

[TooMuchMNTime]

howtorebuild - your phrasing has got many Brexiters labelled as racist in any case, sadly.

Muddle - I'm sure a lot of people think I'd be better off in Remain. Even my mum had a wobble re my job. There is probably an age issue here - at 40, I would probably be better off securing my line of work but as I say, I can't vote Remain anyway.

[howtorebuild]

It's a shame that those with skills in linguistics didn't take time to find out what people meant by "immigration" instead of guessing and getting cross.

[mollie123]

you should vote - everyone should vote as this is very important and affects this country for at least the next decade
vote with your gut instincts and knowledge and not be shamed by guilt or any other emotion that seems to be being pushed at the moment
If I wake up on 24th June and the vote did not go my way - I shall not personally feel any guilt or regret because I did my best to ensure the country my grandchildren will grow up in is the best for them
If you don't vote - maybe one vote on the side you did not support will win it (although if it came down to 1 vote I would expect a recount )